Um no it isn't. Where are you getting this? Where are your vids to show why they're broken? You think words are enough? It's sounds more like complaining than testing. I want to see tourney results go to unskilled people to prove SWF's argument about items. Also, the random argument is weaksauce because there are other competitive games that have a little luck but does it override skill? No it doesn't.
You keep demanding that we present facts. Where are yours? You think
your words are enough, especially when you're a minority? You act like you're intellectually superior or something.
The random argument is
not weak. You say Brawl isn't Melee? Well, Smash isn't any other game. Not to mention that in competitive games, whenever luck CAN be gotten rid of, it is. I don't think there are competitive communities which maintain a factor of luck unless it's unavoidable.
So it's ok to ignore the people in the community who has problems with how Brawl is shaping up? If this is the case, you have no business running things. What if items and more stages brought more depth? Of course you don't have the answer because you just wrote it off and decided to do what you did in Melee (Which is failing badly).
I'm not running things and never said I should be. Hell, I don't even play Brawl, not even casually. Never played Melee competitively either. I'm not an authority figure I just am very passionately for no items in competitive play and will argue to death on the subject.
And other than you, what players are dying to allow items because they're unhappy with how Brawl is shaping? I hate how Brawl's shaping up but the solution is Brawl+ (or just go back to Melee), not items.
Items and more stages may bring more enjoyment if you feel like screwing around, but I don't think there's much depth to losing $100 because of pure chance.
Oh, and Melee's only "failing" because Brawl is where all of the money is at and it's new, so everyone's flocking to it. And Melee is not failing. It's just much less popular as a competitive game. It's a better game than Brawl will ever be, so don't even try to bash it just so you can get items allowed in Brawl. You're not helping your cause, you're just making me dislike you.
Once again, you don't have a reason, stop saying that. How do you even know about any of the things said here? Where's your data, where are you getting this from (Please don't say Melee)? Also comparing slots to a video game is just epic fail.
Dude, I just GAVE you the reason. Luck IS the reason. My data? Play an items match. At least ONCE someone will get an advantage or disadvantage due to their random spawning. I don't need data because it's common sense. If you want to be stubborn, go ahead, just don't demand we all accept your side.
Also, it's called an ANALOGY. Is it extreme? Yes, that's the point of the comparison.
In Melee, you can't turn off crates which hurt the argument for items and in turn got them banned from Melee. In Brawl, that problem is fixed.
HURT being the key word. It's like someone being stabbed in the foot (in a place where it wouldn't be life-threatening) and then being shot in the face. The shot killed them, the stab just wounded.
Randomness is the killer. Explosions just hurt. I don't know where you're getting this "Explosions were the reason" in Melee. I used to be very pro-items myself. What coerced me to change sides? Randomness.
The burden of proof is on the accuser. You said that items in BRAWL are broken, random, etc. You guys have to show why items are the bane to Brawl (you know like tourneys, interacting just like other communities and Melee?)
Yes, it is, and you're the accuser, not us. We're not the ones making claims, we're on the side of the rules. You're accusing us of having bad rules, so you've got to back up your claims. You're twisting words to try and lay responsibility on us when it's yours, not ours.
Last time I checked you guys were gonna ban MK when it wasn't his fault in the first place. Why ban a character when the problem is the way you play. Since everyone recognizes that items and stages would balance out characters (more viable), and since everyone is complaining about balance in Brawl and want said balance. Wouldn't it be a better idea to get out your comfort zones and actually try out other things in Brawl? This isn't Melee for gods sake.
Stop referring to me in the group of people going to ban MK. Again, I don't play Brawl and have no part in the rules. For another thing, I'm not for banning MK.
Who recognizes that items and stages would balance characters? Everyone does not acknowledge that at all. You're making that up.
Stop saying that it's not Melee, that's not an effective argument nor is it anything new. Stop being Captain Obvious.
Also, we're not just staying in our comfort zone, we're using common sense. We're not going to try it because that's like diving into a pile of snow to see if it MIGHT Be warm. It's not going to be.
The way you play Brawl isn't very popular itself
Last I checked, 90% of the competitive community (at least) plays this way.
and people are headed to SF4 or Melee or wherever else.
Good.
Why not try something else for Brawl, as I said, they can both co-exist. If you're gonna have that attitude then guess what? Many smashers in the world outside SWF or any SWF influenced place plays with items. Since these people outnumber you guys, It's a pretty high chance that they will be interested in All-Brawl, therefore from the outside and to other communities, All-Brawl would be a huge success and would get more attention. How's that for popular.
Competitive players? Don't play with items. There may be a small community which does, but no more. Casual players will play with items, yes. Don't care. This is a competitive community.
And considering we still have 100,000+ members I'm not really worrying about SWF dying.
I did and I said that the random argument holds no water since other games have some random in it but it doesn't dictate the match. You say that Brawl's different but I'm saying How do you know that? How do you know that the better player won't win? Yeah, your right in terms of Melee, but don't expect that argument to fly with people who can think for themselves in Brawl.
As I said, competitive games always try to remove luck. Tripping is luck, too. It's only in Brawl because it can't be removed.
Brawl's different because no other fighting game punishes you for moving. =D
In all seriousness, the better player will usually win, but no one wants to lose $100 because their opponent got lucky. That's why luck is removed.
WTF are you talking about?! Bowser goes even with Sonic on New Pork? Are you serious? That's a advantage right there, get out with that.
I didn't say everything was perfectly even, but items, gimmicky stages, and random events like tripping are an attempt by Sakurai to make it so no one can tell the outcome of a match, even if you're more skilled. The competitive community works to clean that crap up as much as possible.
If you have to hack a game, then you shouldn't be playing it competitively in the first place.
Exactly. That's why I don't play Brawl. =D It sucks so much for me it needs to be hacked to be good.
I have. =D
nobody would take you serious with Brawl+ for very obvious reasons.
What...?
No they hate the way the metagame is shaping under YOUR ruleset.
You're definitely right. People like me who hate how the Brawl metagame is at the moment are upset because of the rules, and not because the overall game.
You're just making this up as you go along. The problem is BRAWL, not the rules, otherwise Melee would've had the issue too. Yes it's a different game, I know this and I really don't need you to say it for the millionth time. However, items hardly differ other than the fact that you can turn off crates in Brawl. Which really doesn't make that much difference, even though you make it out to be all of the difference. This whole argument is hypothetical with nothing to back it up except that you THINK that Brawl could be improved by breaking half of the game to fix the other half. If one of your speakers isn't working, do you smash the other with a hammer in hopes that the broken-ness will be evened out and everything will be okay. And no, it's not an irrelevant example because adding items in hopes that characters will balance out is just stupid. Not only does MK have as good of a chance as Captain Falcon of getting that item, thus possibly making MK even more potent, but this is no better than adding tripping. Okay, so say that the randomness evens things out and everyone's equal. Now we no longer have competitive play, since you need to have a significantly lower skill level to be able to compete.
There is a reason that Sakurai, [UR=http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158790]who is uncompetitive[/URL], put random events and luck-based things in Brawl. If casual players wouldn't have complained too, I'm sure he would've removed the ability to put items off.
(And please don't bump the thread I linked to, it's just the best thing I can think of for examples of Sakurai's...let's just call it casual-ness.)
If you don't like the physics, stop playing, other people could disagree with that (Well, except for tripping).
People disagree with tripping too...oddly enough...
And again, I have stopped playing.
Why are you here then? Why are you in this thread and posting? This doesn't concern you. Also, what you have right now isn't very good. Why not use stuff in the game to fix the problem instead of hacking the game?
Um, because I argue for the principle of the thing? Also, it does concern me because I know that competitively it is not right for items to be on. I have a working knowledge of these things. I belong to SmashBoards, don't I? So don't I have a vested interest in having it be a way if I believe it is uncompetitive for it to be another way?
Why not use stuff in the game? Because Brawl does not physically have the capabilities to be as competitive as it could be without hacking. Items will only break the game more. Even if they were to fix something they certainly aren't going to fix everything.
You guys still gonna tell me items are the devil in Brawl? Items are another viable way to play whether you wanna believe it or not.
No one said they were the devil or not viable. They're just not viable for competitive play. Go ahead and play with them with your friends or family or whomever as long as you want.
