"Hey baby! How's it going?" - Rhythm Heaven's Karate Joe for Smash Ultimate!

[smashkirby]

BTW, I don't think anyone's posted this here, so...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So, I ship Ms. Rhythm and Karate Joe now...

 

[JomSpoons]

BTW, I don't think anyone's posted this here, so...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So, I ship Ms. Rhythm and Karate Joe now...

Nah, this is a better ship.

Kidding, of course. That fan art looks really great.

(Also, we made it to page 2!)

 

[Tony Duck]

How do people feel about if Joe got in, Karate Man Senior, (His dad) being a clone of him?

 

[smashkirby]

Nah, this is a better ship.

Kidding, of course. That fan art looks really great.

(Also, we made it to page 2!)​

Hey, Karate Joe has some secret admirers, huh?

How do people feel about if Joe got in, Karate Man Senior, (His dad) being a clone of him?

1. I can see Karate Joe Sr. being an alt. skin of him personally.

2. Karate Joe has a dad??? How did I not know about this??

 

[Pazzo.]

Add me to the supporter list.

We'll punch and kick to the beat of Smash yet.

 

[JomSpoons]

Add me to the supporter list.

We'll punch and kick to the beat of Smash yet.

Done! Thank you for your support!

How do people feel about if Joe got in, Karate Man Senior, (His dad) being a clone of him?

I agree with smashkirby. I think an alt costume would be better. (I even included my own interpretation of what it'd look like in my costume mockup.)

Karate Joe has a dad??? How did I not know about this??

Yes he does. He was introduced in Megamix through the game Karate Man Senior. Karate Joe refers to him as "father" on the results screen, so it's confirmed.

 

[smashkirby]

Yes he does. He was introduced in Megamix through the game Karate Man Senior. Karate Joe refers to him as "father" on the results screen, so it's confirmed.

Don't suppose you have a pic of him?

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Don't suppose you have a pic of him?

 

[Pazzo.]

I'll have to pick up Megamix sometime.

 

[SEGAGameBoy]

Can you please put me on that support list?

 

[verysleepywolf]

Mega Mix is an amazing game and I'm glad I finally broke into this series. I keep thinking I'm almost done and then NOPE, you're only like halfway through haha. Great stuff.

I don't know if this has been shared before but it looks great:

https://t.co/GH03ihWhKU

 

[Lichzim]

I wanna be added. I REALLY want Karate Joe to be in smash.

 

[JomSpoons]

S SEGAGameBoy Lichzim Both of you have been added!

I don't know if this has been shared before but it looks great:

https://t.co/GH03ihWhKU

Yes, it has been. I've had it in the Other People's Ideas section of the OP, but thank you for drawing more attention to it. I love that animatic and I love Kevin Fagaragan's work. Definitely check out more of his stuff if you get the chance. He makes a lot of Rhythm Heaven fan art.

 

[JomSpoons]

Hey guys. Wanted to share something quick I made last night. It's my idea of a Rhythm Heaven logo that would be used if Karate Joe or another Rhythm Heaven character got into Smash. Let me know what you guys think!

Spoiler

 

[Esquelen]

I believe that the icon will be that but without the letters.

Rhythm Heaven has different names in different places, in Europe it is called "Rhythm Paradise" and in Japan it is "Rhythm Tengoku".

 

[JomSpoons]

I believe that the icon will be that but without the letters.

Rhythm Heaven has different names in different places, in Europe it is called "Rhythm Paradise" and in Japan it is "Rhythm Tengoku".

I thought about that, but it'd look bland without the letters. I was thinking it'd just change from region to region, so in Japan it'd say "R T" and in Europe it'd say "R P"

 

[JazzaDawg]

Let's go
Karate joe!

 

[Tony Duck]

Been a while since I posted here! E3 is so soon, if Joe was in the game, do you feel that he’d be a e3 reveal, or a later direct reveal?

 

[JomSpoons]

Been a while since I posted here! E3 is so soon, if Joe was in the game, do you feel that he’d be a e3 reveal, or a later direct reveal?

Well I have a premonition as to what we might see at E3. I could be completely wrong (and probably am) but this is what I’m thinking.

I feel like, much like the announcement of Smash 4, we’ll get three characters announced at E3. One big first party character (I predict either a Xenoblade 2 or ARMS character), one big third party character (I think Rayman is most likely, but I also think Bomberman is likely or maybe even Crash Bandicoot), and one oddball first party character. I’m hoping and praying that if my prediction is correct, we could see Karate Joe at E3 for the oddball character. Probably not, but I can dream.

Otherwise, I think he’d just be announced in a Direct or even just not announced at all until after release, like with Duck Hunt (Discluding the leak, of course)

But if Karate Joe is announced for Smash I will literally sob tears of joy

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Sean Hicks made an excellent piece on Twitter of his most wanted newcomers, including Karate Joe as one of the RH characters!

https://twitter.com/seanhicksart/status/1002469056555954176

 

[JomSpoons]

Hey everyone! Nintendo's E3 presentation is right around the corner and I am beyond excited! While I've been waiting for it to arrive, I've been making a visual representation of my ideas for Karate Joe's special moves. It took a long time and is pretty sloppy since I don't have a drawing tablet as of now, so I did it all with a mouse. You can find it at the bottom of the "Moveset" section, but I'm also going to post it below. Feel free to tell me what you think!

Spoiler

 

[Esquelen]

I would see it possible to see a character from Rhythm Heaven at E3, they always present a comical character in the trailer.

In Brawl, Wario Ware came out as a newcomer comical, in SSB4 Wii Fit Trainer, so SSB5 or could present a character from Nintendo Labo or Rhythm Heaven, I think they are the most comical characters we could have now.

Also, if Wario appeared to be represented by Wario Ware at the beginning, then there would be no problem with Rhythm Heaven, which are from the same creators.

 

[JomSpoons]

Hey guys, Nintendo's E3 was absolutely amazing this year. The new Smash game looks incredible and I'm so glad they're bringing everyone back from the previous games. I've always wanted all the veterans to return. Absolutely amazing. I really hope we get more new characters, and one of them is a Rhythm Heaven character, ideally Joe. The game won't release until December so we have plenty of time to see if a Rhythm Heaven character is in Smash. Hope you all had as much fun watching the stream as I did.

 

[Esquelen]

I think Sakurai is interested in getting more people from new franchises, so Rhythm Heaven can have the possibilities as a character.

At the moment there is no trace of Rhythm Heaven, and we must also remember that the Miiverse stage will not be longer joined by the songs of "Monkey Watch" and "Blue Birds".

Can we probably have at least one Rhythm Heaven stage in Smash?

 

[xjthegulpin]

One interesting thing to note though is that Donkey Kong’s Rhythm Based Smash attack is no longer.

Maybe this is a sign of a Rhythm Heaven fighter. I’m still holding out hope.

 

[PSIGuy]

Honestly after hearing that there won't be many new fighters I'll settle for more Rhythm Heaven content in Smash in general. A stage, music, assist trophies. Sneaky Spirits in Smash Run were a good start.

 

[JomSpoons]

Honestly after hearing that there won't be many new fighters I'll settle for more Rhythm Heaven content in Smash in general. A stage, music, assist trophies. Sneaky Spirits in Smash Run were a good start.

Like Esquelen said, we haven't seen anything relating to Rhythm Heaven yet. To be honest I do find it a tiny bit suspicious we didn't even see a Rhythm Heaven assist trophy. I would've expected one to be seen if we got someone as obscure as Sukapon (which, by the way, I'm really glad is finally represented in Smash since it's an obscure game that I like a lot,) shown off during the presentation. Rhythm Heaven has clearly been acknowledged a fair amount in Smash 4, so I would've expected at least one assist trophy.

Now, I don't want anyone to get their hopes too high, but (puts on tinfoil hat) what if we didn't see any Rhythm Heaven because they're waiting to reveal it? Possibly... alongside a character, similar to how the Namco items and ghost assist were revealed alongside Pac-Man? Yeah, I know it's farfetched, but who knows?

Regardless whether this the case or not, (which it probably isn't,) I still think we have a pretty good chance for a Rhythm Heaven fighter. There are few ongoing first party franchises that have yet to be represented in Smash. I think if Sakurai wants to represent a new first party IP, we have a good chance. Only time will tell, though.

 

[minenice]

Oh hey I see we have a lot of ideas for Karate Joe huh?
I posted my own moveset over on numerous discords and it seems like JomSpoons wanted me to put it up here, so here ya go.
(Note: This moveset was originally designed for an upcoming Super Smash Bros Lawl game, which will have it's own character and stage editor, so I went for a moveset that could work both for fun and competitively, in an environment where you'd see Nostalgia Critics wavedashing about.)

Spoiler: Moveset and Mechanics

Specials
-B
Throw pot
Joe throws an object from the games. Objects thrown can be reflected with any attack from other fighters. Up to three objects can be on screen at once. When three pots are thrown with proper and consistent timing, activates flow for the current stock / timed match.
-UB
Combo
On ground, tosses a bunch of objects near him and hits with a flurry. When flow is active, the player can release the button with proper timing to finish with an uppercut
In air, only the uppercut is executed, no matter whether flow is active or not, but will have a much smaller hitbox if flow is not active
-DB
Chop
When used in succession when flow is active with good timing, becomes a weak projectile, like Falco’s lasers. Has a sweetspot on the palm of the hand. Spikes on sweetspot when flow is active.
-SB
Punch Kick
Tosses a barrel near him and breaks it. Bomb appears. When flow is active, the player can release the button with proper timing to launch the bomb farther. The bomb eventually explodes upon contact with the ground

Tilts
-A
His jab / punch from the games
-Rapid strikes
Similar to Kirby’s
-Utilt
Catch from catchy tune / clap from clappy trio
-Dtilt
Stabs the ground with the fork
-Stilt
Hits opponents with a spaceball bat
-Dash Attack
Imitates a record scratch movement from DJ school

Aerials
-Nair
Performs a midair kick, similar to Mario’s. Good combo starter / extender
-Fair
Does the pose from Lockstep
-Bair
Gets out a camera from Freeze Frame and snaps behind him
-Dair
Samurai’s sword movement, but pointing downwards
-Uair
Hits a dough ball upwards

Smashes
-Fsmash
Spin move from Frog Hop
-Usmash
"Kamone" jump from Fan Club
-Dsmash
Stomps the ground and pulls out a turnip

Grabs
-Grab
Generic
-Pummel
Hits opponent with drum stick
-Uthrow
Jumps like in See-Saw and throws the opponent up
-Dthrow
Plucks out the opponent from the ground
-Fthrow
Hits the opponent with a ping pong racket
-Bthrow
Preforms the “let’s sit down” pose from Space Dance

Other Animations
-Shield
Generic defense pose, arms up
-Airdodge / Wavedash
Spins in the air, similar to Bon Odori
-Roll
Rolls like in Night Walk (Fever)
-Spot Dodge
Nods like Captain Tuck in Flipper Flop, goes into the background layer.
-Perfect Shield / Parry
Blocks like the Samurai in Super Samurai Slice. Adds a half heart to Flow if active


-Utaunt
Spins a lightbulb on his finger. Then drops and breaks it.
-Staunt
Pose for the fans!
-Dtaunt
Puts on headband from Karate Man Combos 2P. The headband stays for the rest of the current life / match. Repeating the taunt will make him adjust the headband

-Idle Loop
Beat animation but stylised
-Misc idle 1
Adjusts belt
-Misc idle 2
Tosses a pot around
-Land
Generic
-Walk
Generic
-Run
Generic
-Jump
Jumps like Play-Yan
-Double Jump
Poses like the player’s character in Pajama Party
-Entrance
Joe starts facing backwards, away from the screen, then turns around and is shown to be chowing down on a pork rice bowl.

-Victory pose 1
Pose like in Karate Man (Tengoku)'s OK rating screen
-Victory pose 2
Pose like in Karate Man (Gold) 2’s superb rating screen
-Victory pose 3
Pose like in Karate Man Combos’ superb rating screen
-Lose
Joe’s stomach grumbles
-Star kill
Poses akin to the samurai when he fails a whirlwind strike / large demon block
-Screen kill
Poses akin to the common fail animations in Rhythm Heaven (Tap Trial etc)

-Launched techable head
Look at that fanmade sprite sheet someone made. The one with the custom uppercut.
-Launched techable stomach
Crutches stomach
-Launched techable leg
Holds knee
-Launched techable backstab
Common back hit pose. (Maybe like the tf2 mercenaries’ backstabbed poses? They could look good on Joe. Check spycicle poses.)
-Trip
Common trip
-Launched untechable
Common spin
-Footstooled / spiked on ground
Common “oh no some dude tried to smash my head into the ground” pose

Final Smash
Non-stop Beat(ing)
Joe rushes in with a massive haul of objects. Opponents get pelted, and then uppercut by Joe, who also breaks a barrel. Launches opponents upwards. Higher flow means more knockback and damage.

Flow mechanic
The player can activate the flow meter by using neutral B three times, with consistent timing (timing it to the rhythm of the background music helps). Once active, attacks that are well timed will gain more power. All attack’s knockback will also now be synced for even more extended combos, even at higher percents. To build up flow, the player has to keep long combos. Higher flow deals more damage. The flow bar has four hearts. With max flow, Joe will enter serious mode, and the next four objects will be cooking pots and stones which deal massive damage and knockback, and also cannot be reflected. Higher tempo means less knockback and more damage while slower tempo means more knockback and less damage.
Tempos can take a value between 75 and 192 bpm. The tempo will automatically be truncated if they exceed these ranges.

The flow mechanic is done this way because the music will most likely not have a bpm value on them. Players could also add their own custom music to Lawl.

This moveset is a bit of a work in progress, and may change by the time I make his character playable in Lawl. I designed Joe to be more of a rushdown type character, with spacing options.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Another GOD-TIER video by bluerain544

I gotta say, Karate Joe has some of the best fan-made Smash mock-ups out there.

 

[JomSpoons]

Another GOD-TIER video by bluerain544

I gotta say, Karate Joe has some of the best fan-made Smash mock-ups out there.

Saw it earlier today. I've already watched it like three times haha. Hopefully this dream becomes a reality!

 

[Game And Guy]

I'll support Karate Joe if he ends up being the rep. But with the many choices we have, Karate Joe is my second least favourite. His design is bland and one-note, and not flexible enough to represent a widely crazy franchise unlike the weird characters like the Chorus Men, the Monkeys, Marshal, and even the Tap Trial Rhythm Girl. A game like rhythm heaven shouldn't be represented by a guy that actually fights, because that doesn't really show what Rhythm Heaven is. That said, I recall seeing an animation where Karate Joe piggybacks Marshal, and the two basically fight like Duck Hunt, summoning and transforming into different characters. I can appreciate the idea of Karate Joe if it ends up like that, but if Inkling is anything to go by, I don't think they can resist avoiding making Karate Joe fight with limbs.

 

[JomSpoons]

I'll support Karate Joe if he ends up being the rep. But with the many choices we have, Karate Joe is my second least favourite. His design is bland and one-note, and not flexible enough to represent a widely crazy franchise unlike the weird characters like the Chorus Men, the Monkeys, Marshal, and even the Tap Trial Rhythm Girl. A game like rhythm heaven shouldn't be represented by a guy that actually fights, because that doesn't really show what Rhythm Heaven is. That said, I recall seeing an animation where Karate Joe piggybacks Marshal, and the two basically fight like Duck Hunt, summoning and transforming into different characters. I can appreciate the idea of Karate Joe if it ends up like that, but if Inkling is anything to go by, I don't think they can resist avoiding making Karate Joe fight with limbs.

I understand where you're coming from. I can see why someone may find Karate Joe to be a bad choice for those reasons. However, I'd like to counter with my own thoughts if that's alright.

I want to make it clear that what I care most about when it comes to a Rhythm Heaven rep is how well it can represent the series as a whole. I suggest if you haven't already, read the "Why Karate Joe?" section of the OP to see a more in-depth explanation as to why I think Karate Joe would be a good representative.

Karate Joe does have a simplistic design but, no offense of course, I don't think this is a very valid argument. Most characters in Rhythm Heaven have simplistic designs. You could say Karate Joe is more simplistic, but not by much. The Chorus Kids are extremely simplistic in design, maybe even more than Karate Joe, but I digress. To be honest, I think simplicity is a better visual representation of the series, since it would make them stand out among the other fighters and would be a good place to build off of with more visually interesting moves.

Now as for fighting, I can definitely understand the concern. There is a chance that if Karate Joe were to be the rep, he would fight using typical martial arts attacks and stuff. I wouldn't like it if this were the case. However, I believe this won't be the case. Sakurai seems to care a lot about representing the entire series characters originate from. I think Karate Joe would pull moves and animations from all sorts of minigames throughout the series. If you want to see my ideas for a moveset, read the "Moveset" section of the OP if you haven't already. Now there is no telling that this is going to be the case for Karate Joe. It could very well turn out to be generic or "limb" attacks so I understand the concern. However, just know that if this is the case I'll be disappointed as well, since I want him to pull moves from many minigames. However, there is no guarantee this will be the case either.

I'll be happy regardless as long as we get a Rhythm Heaven rep. I really don't care who as long as we get one. The reason I'm rooting for Joe is because I think he is a recognizable character for anyone who has played any Rhythm Heaven game while still be distinct amongst the rest of the fighters in Smash Bros, and I think he would serve as a good base for building off of with moves from many minigames in the series. I do understand your concerns though, so please don't take any of this the wrong way. Thank you for replying!

 

[minenice]

Oh hey I'm back again
I changed a few things in my Joe moveset, so I'll cover those changes here.

Spoiler: Changes

New moves:
Shielded Special:
While shielding, press B to deactivate Flow. Can come in handy to resync the tempo. With max flow however, this activates Serious Mode, which does not reset.
Freefall Hurt:
Similar to Little Mac’s
-Freefall special
Similar to Mario’s pose in Ultimate

Changes to existing moves:
Rapid skrikes:
Oraoraoraora! (Basically what can be seen in Karateka Mania's Demon stages)
Uthrow:
The jump will actually count as a jump, so Joe can combo into any aireal. This also means that the grounded jump will be used up.
Dthrow:
The pluck can be canceled with any tilt to keep the opponent buried. This will allow for many mixups.
Utaunt:
The dropped lightbulb will have a hitbox, that deals little to no stun as well as 1%. The lightbulb will count as an object for neutral special.

Clarification to the Flow Mechanic:
While it helps alot, the activation objects do not have to be thrown in time with the background music. The tempo will be based on the average of time between each object use, precise to the tenth decimal.

I also made some character portraits, and I think y'all might enjoy them. (I still need to finish a few more however.)

Along with a battle UI mockup:

Now all I need to do is animate his moves, and I'll be ready for the release of Lawl Game and it's character editor!

 

[Game And Guy]

Karate Joe does have a simplistic design but, no offense of course, I don't think this is a very valid argument. Most characters in Rhythm Heaven have simplistic designs. You could say Karate Joe is more simplistic, but not by much. The Chorus Kids are extremely simplistic in design, maybe even more than Karate Joe, but I digress. To be honest, I think simplicity is a better visual representation of the series, since it would make them stand out among the other fighters and would be a good place to build off of with more visually interesting moves.
!

I think this is a false equivalence. Karate Joe, as is, is inherently less interesting choice. First, I'd like to mention that never had I described Karate Joe as "simplistic", with the connotation that simplistic =/= bland and generic. I have only described him as bland and generic. Second, Joe is inherently less interesting because he is a human karate artist, unlike the definitely not human Chorus Men and Marshal, or the less straightforward Tap Trial/Rhythm Girl. In a fighting game, you expect a fighter to do fighting moves. Furthermore, the fact that Karate Man comes from one of the least interesting minigames in terms of setting and characters really downplays what we should be showing to people what Rhythm Heaven is.

Now there is no telling that this is going to be the case for Karate Joe. It could very well turn out to be generic or "limb" attacks so I understand the concern. However, just know that if this is the case I'll be disappointed as well, since I want him to pull moves from many minigames. However, there is no guarantee this will be the case either.

I like looking into what we know versus what we don't know, because it's makes more sense to form conversation around it. We know that Inkling attacks with limbs and pistol whips instead of using actual weapons in her aerials and ground moves. Corrin and Robin, and honestly a lot of the swordfighters, don't bring in other aspects of their games to differentiate their, honestly, homogenized neutral moves. On the other hand, we know that those who aren't typical human shaped, like G&W, ROB, Duck Hunt, and even Villager, attack with all sorts of things, with G&W and Villager just having more places to get inspiration from unlike ROB and Duck Hunt.

So what this makes me think is that a relatively normal sized human like Karate Joe will definitely fallback on limb attacks instead of actually focusing on the minigames and creating a rhythm based fighting style. A non-fighter character is more likely to attack in more creative ways.

I'll be happy regardless as long as we get a Rhythm Heaven rep. I really don't care who as long as we get one.

Same here. But I just wanted to emphasize the fighters we have now, and what they've shown us regarding the difference between a human character vs a non-human character. Because of that, I am less excited about Karate Joe being picked over a multitude of others.

That said, I mentioned him being my second least favourite. My least favourite is Tibby, and for entirely different reasons, them being how insufferable his existence is during Megamix, and his entire plot being pointless chore of A pressing. I really don't want a character like that telling everybody that's why what Rhythm Heaven is, even if Tibby fits the bill for the zanier aspects of the games.

 

[NessSaysOkay]

Hi I'd like to join this thread as a supporter! Rhythm Heaven is my favorite franchise not repped in smash and Joe is absolutely my favorite pick! I would accept other characters almost instantly but I'd be 100% satisfied with Joe!

 

[Malalaika]

I heavily support this thread and the idea of Karate Joe as a playable fighter in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate! I have a question to ask however:
Have you thought of animations and taunts? I'd like to see some creative inputs from you on this subject. My suggestions are kind of bland though: His idle can be his head bob, and one of his taunts can be him eating a pork rice bowl.
I was going to question the special moves, and the problematic timing feature, but we can always remember that if Nintendo does do this, they can always do something better! This thread is executed both extravagantly and beautifully.

 

[Domino11332]

My #1 most wanted newcomer for this game! For some reason I haven't joined this thread yet so i'm doing it now!

 

[Lisbon Mapping]

I definitely support! Although I've only played the DS game, it's pretty clear that Rhythm Heaven needs some representation, having 4 (5?) games now.

 

[NessSaysOkay]

We've gone 2 assist showcases, many songs that could be just a song for a series, and basically, 2 directs with NOTHING Rhythm Heaven. Is it really happening...!?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

If we don't get at least a Rhythm Heaven stage I'll be sorely disappointed...