Help: How to efficiently ASC in competitive battle

[Pawprint]

Hey all, I read all the guides here (and a few elsewhere) regarding the ASC. I know what it is and, in theory, how to do it. I can perform it with about 80% reliability on a standing-still training dummy.

But uh, using it in an actualy competitive fight is insanely difficult. My questions are many...

1. The thing has pretty bad priority. Is everyone praising it feeling the same "wow I just got naired out of an ASC" effect I am? All they have to do is jump and do ANY arial attack to screw up the combo before it even begins.

2. WHEN is it used (specifically)? For instance, do you usually run headlong at your enemy, shorthop > downB > ASC? Do you wait for your opponent to rush YOU and then shorthop > downB > ASC?

3. Is there a certain range or damage percentage that it works best/only works at? As mentioned, I'm unable to perform it with 100% reliability even on an unmoving target.

4. Is all this for an extra 7% damage?!? I'm pulling my hair out here. >.<

Sigh. There are more but I can't remember them. I'm having SO MUCH trouble with this supposedly "metagame breaking" tech. Halp?

 

[Kupo Rose]

1. If your still charging ASC you'll get hit/grabbed out of it pretty easily. Its priority is pretty decent for me.

2. Situational :/ Look at Epsy's video at 0:24 and look at the damage % build up from that one ASC combo. >__>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixopDJg8j2w&feature=channel

3. Lower %'s on heavies?

You may have read all the guides, you havn't read the OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here! though.
This response is bad and I should feel bad. Which is why I'm going to tell you to go ask this again in the Sonic FAQ instead...

 

[Kinzer]

ASC does much more than 7% damage... or at least the string of combos it can do can get much more than that... and my ASC is usually fresh so that helps.

ASC is meant to be used to punish something, although most like to use it on shields since it has nice shield-draining/stabbing, and can be canceled into many things.

ASC works at any percent, while at later %ages it may be a bit harder to string attacks but still it makes a very lovely punishing punisher... thingy... get my point?

 

[Camalange]

ASC is god.

Don't think otherwise.



The reason why you're having so much problems is because you're doing it wrong. ASC is used as a punisher. Think of it as a Falcon Kick but 9001 times better. Also, ASC at any percentage is guaranteed to combo into Uair/Fair and does at the very least 27% damage.

If you're only doing 7% you're spacing it horribly wrong and aren't following up with any attacks...

 

[ROOOOY!]

*late*
While charging that ASC, you can move away from them in mid-air if you're having trouble with spacing.
The **** fat kids in Brawl, they're slow as hell. Even Bowser; anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. Sure, **** comes out fast but then he's a sitting duck during cool-down on like everything. These are the types you wanna ASC.
You don't want ASC people who can just beat you out instantly, like Luigi and his nair.
Yes it does have horrible priority, it's just the same priority wise as a SDR, as we all know that's pretty horrendous, there's no disjoints to any of it.

 

[ithrowthings]

If your opponent has the proper timing, he can grab you out of your ASC before you hit him. That is if you are spacing it to land directly in front of him. If you space it to hit him in the head it won't combo as well and certain character (Lucario) can STILL grab you from the air.

Against Snake, if he sees you in an ASC he can simply spam u-tilt (which as we all know is deadly at high %) if the Snake player times it correctly, you are screwed. You aimed high on the ASC on snake? u-tilted out of the air to death. You landed it first then tried to hit him? first u-tilt clashes with the spindash, second u-tilt kills you.

It works WONDERS on someone who is either unfamiliar with the matchup, or doesn't know the timing. Against an opponent that knows the Sonic matchup, use it sparingly. It's still a wonderful mixup, but you gotta catch them off guard.

 

[Camalange]

If your opponent has the proper timing, he can grab you out of your ASC before you hit him. That is if you are spacing it to land directly in front of him.

That is very true.

If you space it to hit him in the head it won't combo as well and certain character (Lucario) can STILL grab you from the air.

Are you sure Lucario can grab if you space it right? I imagine a character like DDD could, but Lucario?

Against Snake, if he sees you in an ASC he can simply spam u-tilt (which as we all know is deadly at high %) if the Snake player times it correctly, you are screwed. You aimed high on the ASC on snake? u-tilted out of the air to death. You landed it first then tried to hit him? first u-tilt clashes with the spindash, second u-tilt kills you.

Well, that's why you should be using ASC to punish, not as a reliable approach :/
I know what you are saying though. I sometimes get in a habit of approaching with it against people who don't know how to react to it, and then later get hurt by players who do.

It works WONDERS on someone who is either unfamiliar with the matchup, or doesn't know the timing. Against an opponent that knows the Sonic matchup, use it sparingly. It's still a wonderful mixup, but you gotta catch them off guard.

trufax.

I want a further explanation on Lucario being able to grab out of ASC though.

x(

 

[Kinzer]

Lucario has a huge vertical grab range.

His horizontal grab range isn't as impressive.

 

[ithrowthings]

There's probly a video of me playing argentstew's lucario out there somewhere. I'm pretty sure that 9 times out of 10, he grabs me out of ASC. No lie, I never catch him off guard with that anymore. I just about give up using it on him.

 

[Camalange]

Lucario has a huge vertical grab range.

His horizontal grab range isn't as impressive.

There's probly a video of me playing argentstew's lucario out there somewhere. I'm pretty sure that 9 times out of 10, he grabs me out of ASC. No lie, I never catch him off guard with that anymore. I just about give up using it on him.

Hm...I wasn't aware of this...



Oh no, Marko was right, in the future it's going to be a 10:90 MU, LOL

 

[B.A.M.]

ASC is **** dude. It comes down to proper spacing, and what has been iterated in a myriad of occasions in this thread; its use as a punisher. You need to know matchups to know when to use ASC to punish.

For instance metaknights love retaliating with dsmash. I then jump out of shield over their dsmash and proceed to **** them for at least 36 damage. Adding to the fact that unless they airdodge immediately u can go ASC>SDJ>Uair>DJ bair ur doing tons of damage. Then u can play mindgames with that. Use a DJ nair to destroy the airdodge that has to be done virtually immediately.

Also know that if an ASC blocked it destroys their sheilds. If they go for an up^B OoS (marth,mk) spring out of the SDJ works unusually well. or a spinshot or simply a backwards DJ. Along attacking their shield with ASC, canceling it gets u that free grab.

the way to use ASC efficently? same thing with every character in this game, and ESPECIALLY sonic. Know your options. Sonic has probably more options than the entire cast. Theyre all seemingly crappy, but there so much that he has the ultimate mixup game. In anycase spam ASC for a match to get the spacing lol. thats what i did. Then u can start implementing it properly in your game, u rack up damage in 2 seconds. Just know ur percents and ur options and ASC becomes a damage racker and kill setup all in one. BTW ASC>SDJ>delayed Fair is an awesome killer off the side because it carries you and the opponent all the way to the side of the stage basically. read airdodge or attack. and profit.

 

[Tenki]

i just skimmed this thread, slightly.

has anyone brought up either "in-place" or retreating SH > ASC?

it's kind of like a weave out-and-back-in thing, if they're approaching you (jumping backwards first), or a delay in rhythm if you're approaching them.

You landed it first then tried to hit him? first u-tilt clashes with the spindash, second u-tilt kills you.

(p)shield the 2nd u-tilt.

Regardless of how fast of an attack is, no attack comes out faster than shield, so shielding is one of the safer options out of clang.

 

[B.A.M.]

i actually love to use ASC in that manner Tenki; i believe its one of its greatest uses. I see it just as people use a sh> ff bair to punish. For instance, metaknights often get destroyed by that if they are using a telegraphed dsmash. It is definitely a good reward vs risk. Sonic's should all be capable of dodging attacks through other means besides spotdodge, airdodge, and roll. The better you get at using sonics movement options the better you can implement ASC to now punish the move being dodged. I hope that made some sort of sense; a little exhausted today