Heir to the Monado. Shulk General Discussion/Social Thread

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd rather have Shulk over Isaac in SSBB4, cause Xenoblade is so much more relevant than GoldenSun. Not saying relevancy should really be a deciding factor as to who makes the cast, but then again... Lucario made it cause his generation was "relevant"

How is Xenoblade "relevant", relevant to what? Does relevant mean new?

Nintendo didn't even own Monolith until 2007.

That hardly makes it a all star Nintendo series

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

How is Xenoblade "relevant", relevant to what? Does relevant mean new?

Nintendo didn't even own Monolith until 2007.

That hardly makes it a all star Nintendo series

True, but most new Ip's that will be added from now on (most likely) won't be big "all stars" anyway. Most of the all-star characters are already in the game.

Xenoblade was also an incredibly popular game, so compared to some other options, Shulk isn't even that bad.

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GxUMMGyZcM


Xenoblade will (at 95 % chances) not be an one-shot anymore !

 

[TheCreator]

Lucario made it because he was new and popular. The pokemon company had just came out with "Lucario and the secret of Mew" and it was what they where marketing at the time. They pretty much demanded that Lucario be in, because he was per se "The man of the hour". That's why I believe that gen 6 will have an obvious shoe in Pokemon, and if it does not then a new trainer will surely show up. More because of the Pokemon Company than anything else.

Now in relations to Xenoblade, I hate the series. I pray this isn't a Xenoblade title, because I do NOT want shulk in ssb4. However sensibly if he is the protagonist it seems pretty likely

 

[Robotic Wind]

I could see this being a mixture of Xenoblade and Xenogears. The mechs point to gears and the character/animations point to Xenoblade, but whatever it is it seems Shulk will have some involve which should increase his SSB 4 chances even more which is great!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@ The Creator why is it that you don't like Xenoblade? I'm not going to chastise you for it, but i'm just wondering.

That blonde guy at the end of the video for that new game...was that Shulk? If it was, then i'm pretty convinced he'll be in. I'm not sure whether this new game helps or hurts him though. I'm still confident as long as his popularity holds strong.

 

[8-peacock-8]

The guy actually looks a like Shulk.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

How is Xenoblade "relevant", relevant to what? Does relevant mean new?

Nintendo didn't even own Monolith until 2007.

That hardly makes it a all star Nintendo series

Smash Bros is not only for all star Nintendo characters, it is for all Nintendo.

The only game that could be considered that was the original.

 

[TheCreator]

I like Xenoblade as a game. I just hate shulk. And the series. maybe I'll like this one more?
Edit: Hate is a strong word...hmmm...I dont like shulk. Lol

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The guy actually looks a like Shulk.

I agree. However, until that is confirmed to be Shulk i'm going to be careful about getting my hopes up. If that IS Shulk, then I will but no doubt assume he will be in Smash Bros.

Maybe he'll even be a character in the new trailer, assuming what Sakurai tweeted is true. In case you're wondering, he evidently tweeted that he would "up the Brawl trailer" with the new one. I'm going to expect more characters revealed, or at least an incredibly exciting trailer. Not exactly sure yet. But all I know, is that I'm super pumped for it!

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

@ The Creator why is it that you don't like Xenoblade? I'm not going to chastise you for it, but i'm just wondering.

That blonde guy at the end of the video for that new game...was that Shulk? If it was, then i'm pretty convinced he'll be in. I'm not sure whether this new game helps or hurts him though. I'm still confident as long as his popularity holds strong.

Regardless if it was him or not, I say Shulk is in because of Xenoblade on the Wii.

 

[3Bismyname]

^^ i dont get your reasoning there @DragonSniperNintendo but i do feel that Shulk definately has a good shot now. i personally am indifferent to this character but i can give credit where credit is due. if Shulk is still the main in the next game than i would definately jump on the bandwagon. he is interesting and unique enough.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

^^ i dont get your reasoning there @DragonSniperNintendo but i do feel that Shulk definately has a good shot now. i personally am indifferent to this character but i can give credit where credit is due. if Shulk is still the main in the next game than i would definately jump on the bandwagon. he is interesting and unique enough.

Because the Wii is one of the major systems Nintendo will be looking at, and Xenoblade was one of the bigger new Nintendo IPs released on it

 

[3Bismyname]

he most definately has a good shot now that we know he's not some one shot character. but simply having a game on the Wii is not a good indicator of a possible inclusion. if that were the case than Isaac, Krystal, a Battalion wars character, a gen 3 rep, and Ray should've been top picks for Brawl. im not saying Shulk wont get in, but i am saying that looking at the previous gen tells very little about how the roster will end up. sure it puts them in the running but its not exactly the best way to look at it. and if your gonna use Brawl and Melees rosters as a template than i think i should just remind Melee was a launch title, so they literally had only the previous gen to go off of for inspiration(although it should be noted that Marth made it into Melee and he hadnt appeared in a game since the Super Famicon), and likewise Brawl was worked on very early in the Wiis lifespan.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm onboard the "Shulk may as well be a shoe-in" bandwagon now. That pretty much sells it, just based on visuals in the trailer alone. (Assuming, pretty much definitely that the game shown is Xenoblade of SOME kind) Main characters always get first dibs, anyway.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

he most definately has a good shot now that we know he's not some one shot character. but simply having a game on the Wii is not a good indicator of a possible inclusion. if that were the case than Isaac, Krystal, a Battalion wars character, a gen 3 rep, and Ray should've been top picks for Brawl. im not saying Shulk wont get in, but i am saying that looking at the previous gen tells very little about how the roster will end up. sure it puts them in the running but its not exactly the best way to look at it. and if your gonna use Brawl and Melees rosters as a template than i think i should just remind Melee was a launch title, so they literally had only the previous gen to go off of for inspiration(although it should be noted that Marth made it into Melee and he hadnt appeared in a game since the Super Famicon), and likewise Brawl was worked on very early in the Wiis lifespan.

When most of the characters showing up are from the previous gen, it looks like it does has some impact. They have more time to grab and look at those characters, and current fans can at least relate to them.

The original came out at the end of the N64, and was the only one to get some impact from the current gen. Although it was still mainly SNES and Gameboy.

Melee came out at the beginning of the Gamecube, and had no support from it. It was able to get N64 and GBC from the previous and what they could get from the GBA. Roy being GBA, and Marth basically being the Japanese Retro character.

Brawl came out about a year and a half into the Wii, and was mainly the Gamecube and GBA. It also had early DS.

SSB4 is pretty much set to come out sometime in 2014, practically the same time into the Wii U as Brawl was on the Wii. Thus prevous gen is VERY likely.

I didn't say the current gen can't show up, but it depends on how long it has been out leading up to the Smash release. The Wii and DS will impact the SSB4 roster while the 3DS (and potenitally even the Wii U) will only get some reps. Both of which would have more impact on SSB5. The previous gen impacts most of the roster, not all of it.

This doesn't mean every character shows up, but it does mean a lot of them will show up (and be majority of the newcomers, outside of retro of course).

Thus the likes of a Micaiah, Isa, Matthew, Adult Isaac, Chrom, 2nd Gen Trainer, Zoroark, Andy, Will, Bowser Jr, Ghirahim, Little Mac, Shulk, Aeron, Zael, Mii, etc are the likely choices. Then when it comes to 3DS there are ones such as Chrom and Palutena.

 

[3Bismyname]

im just saying its not a good indicator for the roster. and dont expect the roster to be filled with one shots. that's the only reason i say Shulk now has a good shot now. cause he's not another MC Hammer of video games anymore. everyone who made it into a smash were pretty impactful to their respective titles and even to Nintendo themselves.

 

[N3ON]

Smash Bros is not only for all star Nintendo characters, it is for all Nintendo.

The only game that could be considered that was the original.

If it was for all of Nintendo, including the maximum possible amount of series would be the priority over including multiple characters from one series. It is not about all of Nintendo (at least, the roster isn't), it's about the Nintendo characters that merit inclusion, which is often multiple from one series while none from another.

Plus Melee was also considered a "Nintendo All-Star" game. It even said so in the opening.

Regardless if it was him or not, I say Shulk is in because of Xenoblade on the Wii.

So how come Isaac, Starfy, Ray, Andy, etc. didn't make it into Brawl (like 3B said)? They all had games either on the Gamecube, the GBA, or both, and their games were either bigger than Xenoblade, they had more games than Xenoblade, or both.

For that matter, if being on the Wii is the only prerequisite for inclusion, does that mean we'll see characters such as Captain Rainbow, Zip (from FlingSmash), and Ray (from Disaster: Day of Crisis) in SSB4?

I await further holes in your logic...

Melee came out at the beginning of the Gamecube, and had no support from it. It was able to get N64 and GBC from the previous and what they could get from the GBA. Roy being GBA, and Marth basically being the Japanese Retro character.

Marth was not the "Japanese Retro character". He was added because he was the most popular lord and the face of his series. In Melee's development SNES wasn't retro. I know that flies in the face of your roster inclusion beliefs, but it only goes to show the recentness mean very little when compared to other factors. Like Marth, Isaac and Saki are the most popular characters in their series, and the face of their series, and will be included over Matthew/Isa, just like Marth was included over every other FE Lord, including the recent ones (Roy was added later).

 

[TheCreator]

im just saying its not a good indicator for the roster. and dont expect the roster to be filled with one shots. that's the only reason i say Shulk now has a good shot now. cause he's not another MC Hammer of video games anymore. everyone who made it into a smash were pretty impactful to their respective titles and even to Nintendo themselves.

This. So hard.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

im just saying its not a good indicator for the roster. and dont expect the roster to be filled with one shots. that's the only reason i say Shulk now has a good shot now. cause he's not another MC Hammer of video games anymore. everyone who made it into a smash were pretty impactful to their respective titles and even to Nintendo themselves.

I see about 3-5 new "one shots" (since some of them are bound to show up again)

Isa, Matthew, Ghirahim, Shulk, and Aeron

If it was for all of Nintendo, including the maximum possible amount of series would be the priority over including multiple characters from one series. It is not about all of Nintendo (at least, the roster isn't), it's about the Nintendo characters that merit inclusion, which is often multiple from one series while none from another.

Plus Melee was also considered a "Nintendo All-Star" game. It even said so in the opening.



So how come Isaac, Starfy, Ray, Andy, etc. didn't make it into Brawl (like 3B said)? They all had games either on the Gamecube, the GBA, or both, and their games were either bigger than Xenoblade, they had more games than Xenoblade, or both.

For that matter, if being on the Wii is the only prerequisite for inclusion, does that mean we'll see characters such as Captain Rainbow, Zip (from FlingSmash), and Ray (from Disaster: Day of Crisis) in SSB4?

I await further holes in your logic...



Marth was not the "Japanese Retro character". He was added because he was the most popular lord and the face of his series. In Melee's development SNES wasn't retro. I know that flies in the face of your roster inclusion beliefs, but it only goes to show the recentness mean very little when compared to other factors. Like Marth, Isaac and Saki are the most popular characters in their series, and the face of their series, and will be included over Matthew/Isa, just like Marth was included over every other FE Lord, including the recent ones (Roy was added later).

1. Yes it is for characters that fit and would be good reps. By all Nintendo, I meant many different franchises.

2. It doesn't mean all characters from that gen show up. But they do pick characters from that gen. Brawl's roster was based off of Gamecube, GBA, and DS. Besides retros of course, and returning.

Those characters do have chances but not as much as the likes of Isa, Ghirahim, Matthew, Micaiah, Bowser Jr, 2nd Gen Trainer, etc.

3. I think of it as Japanese retro but still, I never said it affected ALL of the roster. I imply it would affect MOST of the roster (besides retros, returning, and the occasional popular choices).

Isaac does make sense, sure, but it would be as his adult self. That is his recent form. As for Saki, I will never see him over Isa unless he comes back in the next game.

Yes, they wanted Marth since he was the original. But he still was an older character, one older character that got in over someone new. That doesn't happen all of the time.


In the end, I see where you are coming from but that doesn't mean the previous gen does not have some sort of effect on the Smash Bros rosters. It is for that gen in general, not all of that gen though. Plus what they can get from the current one.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I see about 3-5 new "one shots" (since some of them are bound to show up again)

Isa, Matthew, Ghirahim, Shulk, and Aeron

Again, you miss the point of the term one-shot and wht people consider it a negative. Shulk and Aeron are from series with only one game, so calling them one-shots is pointless. Isa is from a series with only two games, and(as I understand it) the two games don't share many characters between them.

Ghirahim is a one shot in a series with a number of recurring characters(even outside the Triforce Trio). That's why people see him being a one-shot huring his chances.

Oh, and Matthew/Isa aren't as likely as you keep saying they are. But saying that to you would be pointless.

 

[3Bismyname]

Ghirahim is not showing up in any more Zelda games. and we know Shulk is most likely coming back for this new game. Matthew may or may not get another game as his game was a flop by comparison to the previous Golden Sun. I have no opinion on Isa or Aeron as i havent played their games. but i do know Isa's popularity has waned since his games release. in all honesty all of the ones u listed (sans Shulk) are probably not gonna be in Smash as full fledged characters

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Ghirahim is not showing up in any more Zelda games. and we know Shulk is coming back. Matthew may or may not get another game as his game was a flop by comparison to the previous Golden Sun. I have no opinion on Isa or Aeron as i havent played their games. but i do know Isa's popularity has waned since his games release. in all honesty all of the ones u listed (sans Shulk) are probably not gonna be in Smash as full fledged characters

Are we even sure that is Shulk?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Are we even sure that is Shulk?

It's entirely plausible, considering the game. It's either Shulk, one of descendants, or an expy of him.

 

[3Bismyname]

we don't. i said before that if that is in fact him than he would be very likely to appear in Smash.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Again, you miss the point of the term one-shot and wht people consider it a negative. Shulk and Aeron are from series with only one game, so calling them one-shots is pointless. Isa is from a series with only two games, and(as I understand it) the two games don't share many characters between them.

Ghirahim is a one shot in a series with a number of recurring characters(even outside the Triforce Trio). That's why people see him being a one-shot huring his chances.

Oh, and Matthew/Isa aren't as likely as you keep saying they are. But saying that to you would be pointless.

Well I was refering to character who mainly showed up in one game. And said probably not since some (Isa, Matthew, Shulk) could eventually be in more games.

Yes, it hurts his chances but it doesn't count him out. That is what I just want to say on that.

Matthew? Maybe seeing as Adult Isaac might be better.
Isa? Yes, I think he is THE Sin & Punishment rep being the hero in both the return and the localization of the series

Plus it is not pointless because I see where you are coming from (at least with Matthew).

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yes, it hurts his chances but it doesn't count him out. That is what I just want to say on that.

Doesn't mean he's even close to guarunteed(though you seem to have problems making that distinction). For all we know he could just be this games 'Zant.'

Matthew? Maybe seeing as Adult isaac might be better.
Isa? Yes, I think he is THE Sin & Punishment rep being the hero in both the return and the localization of the series

S&P2 sold like crap, so I don't think it would impact who would/wouldn't get into Smash. I have a feeling that Saki is currently more well known that Isa, which helps his chances..

 

[Deleted member]

As if sales were the defining factor.
If that were the case, we wouldn't have had Ike.

Aside from that, I'm sure it "selling like crap" is just an exaggeration.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Aside from that, I'm sure it "selling like crap" is just an exaggeration.

Pretty sure it's not a very big one.

Either way, I doubt there would be a sequel, considering that this is Treasure we're talking about, so that means Isa has about a 0% of making future appearances.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Doesn't mean he's even close to guarunteed(though you seem to have problems making that distinction). For all we know he could just be this games 'Zant.'



S&P2 sold like crap, so I don't think it would impact who would/wouldn't get into Smash. I have a feeling that Saki is currently more well known that Isa, which helps his chances..

1. He could, he could not

2. It is more of what the game stands for and not the sales. S&P2 was both the RETURN of the series and the LOCALIZATION of it as well. The VC game of the original was just an import.

Isa was the main character of that game, and Saki's game was around 2000 (he should have been in Melee). As an alt character? Sure. The actual character represent S&P? I don't think so.

Pretty sure it's not a very big one.

Either way, I doubt there would be a sequel, considering that this is Treasure we're talking about, so that means Isa has about a 0% of making future appearances.

Of true, the same thing applies to Saki XD

 

[FlareHabanero]

Either way, I doubt there would be a sequel, considering that this is Treasure we're talking about, so that means Isa has about a 0% of making future appearances.

Make that about 10% due to possible sticker and trophy cameos.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure it's not a very big one.

Either way, I doubt there would be a sequel, considering that this is Treasure we're talking about, so that means Isa has about a 0% of making future appearances.

At the same time, Saki has >0% of making a future appearance, given that the sequel takes place after he is long gone, making that kind of a moot point.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Edit: Let's continue this discussion here before the mods get angry.

Edit: didn't this thread used to be about Shulk?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Lol@ calling S&P a series. If it is, it may as well be dead at this point(and not just because of sales).

Well it will be when S&P3 comes to Wii U and Saki travels through time to fight with his son Isa

 

[Deleted member]

All in all, it depends on whether Sakurai would want to include a Sin & Punishment character or not (which is arguably in favor of one, given his statements on Saki), and whether or not he finds Isa just as interesting as he found Saki, if not more given that Isa arguably has more to work with for an interesting set of moves.

It all ends up as: We just don't know. To argue one way or the other is pointless.

As for Shulk, unlike either Saki or Isa, he's been consistently popular to the point that he was heavily requested even before the possible sequel.
If the game IS in fact a sequel, and the blonde boy we see at the end of it is Shulk himself, his popularity and demand will only go up, making potential main characters from the sequel in a bad spot.

 

[N3ON]

2. It doesn't mean all characters from that gen show up. But they do pick characters from that gen. Brawl's roster was based off of Gamecube, GBA, and DS. Besides retros of course, and returning.

Those characters do have chances but not as much as the likes of Isa, Ghirahim, Matthew, Micaiah, Bowser Jr, 2nd Gen Trainer, etc.

You missed the point. You justified Shulk being playable because "he was on the Wii" the previous console which SSB4 will inherently take content from. All I'm saying is that by that logic, all those characters I listed would've been playable in Brawl because they were either as big or bigger than Shulk at that time.

Now, Shulk might very well end up being playable (especially with this Monolith Wii U game), but it will hardly be because "he was on the Wii". If anything, that might've worked against him, as he might've been too new and unproven to Sakurai, especially if series like Golden Sun, Starfy, and Custom Robo didn't merit a character at Brawl's time.

As if sales were the defining factor.
If that were the case, we wouldn't have had Ike.

Aside from that, I'm sure it "selling like crap" is just an exaggeration.

No, sales are hardly a defining factor, I agree, but when other series have several times the amount of sales (like not even in the same ballpark amount), that's when it starts to have a bit of an effect, if just because one series has a much larger audience. I'm mostly referring to c-list series here (S&P, GS, Starfy, Xenoblade), not inter-series stuff like the different FE games or anything, I agree on a series-by-series basis it is a bit different.

And yeah, "crap" might be a bit of an exaggeration, but honestly it did do pretty poorly. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say it was towards the bottom of the list of Nintendo-published games this generation (at least for the Wii) sales-wise (though not the worst). It would be fair to say the game sold poorly.

 

[Deleted member]

Within context, it was "Saki will be in before Isa because his game sold more". Nothing to do with the series compared to another series, at which I agree, the more well known and popular series would get the character first.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Within context, it was "Saki will be in before Isa because his game sold more". Nothing to do with the series compared to another series, at which I agree, the more well known and popular series would get the character first.

I didn't mean it exactly like that. Just pointing out that being the 'face of the series' doesn't reallly mean a damn when nobody plays your games. Saki is more well known(having actually appeared in Smash beforehand, and would probably be more well-known, and therefore more likely in my estimations.

 

[Starphoenix]

We should get a Sin and Punishment stage in place of a new F-Zero stage, since there is no new title to draw from. That is my contribution to the Sin and Punishment discussion.

As for Shulk. I think this next title will tie into Xenoblade enough without actually being a full sequel. Some have even suggested this could be a prequel to Xenoblade, which Monolith Soft never technically ruled out. How Shulk is connected to this other game will have to be seen.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

You missed the point. You justified Shulk being playable because "he was on the Wii" the previous console which SSB4 will inherently take content from. All I'm saying is that by that logic, all those characters I listed would've been playable in Brawl because they were either as big or bigger than Shulk at that time.

Now, Shulk might very well end up being playable (especially with this Monolith Wii U game), but it will hardly be because "he was on the Wii". If anything, that might've worked against him, as he might've been too new and unproven to Sakurai, especially if series like Golden Sun, Starfy, and Custom Robo didn't merit a character at Brawl's time.



No, sales are hardly a defining factor, I agree, but when other series have several times the amount of sales (like not even in the same ballpark amount), that's when it starts to have a bit of an effect, if just because one series has a much larger audience. I'm mostly referring to c-list series here (S&P, GS, Starfy, Xenoblade), not inter-series stuff like the different FE games or anything, I agree on a series-by-series basis it is a bit different.

And yeah, "crap" might be a bit of an exaggeration, but honestly it did do pretty poorly. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say it was towards the bottom of the list of Nintendo-published games this generation (at least for the Wii) sales-wise (though not the worst). It would be fair to say the game sold poorly.

1. I see where you are getting at and they could have easily been.

2. It is not just because he was on the Wii, it is because he is a great new character with a unique styled move-set that is a really good character rep and popular (the game as well).

3. We shouldn't be expecting the smaller franchises to sell as well as the big 6 (Mario, Zelda, Kirby, DK, Pokemon, Smash Bros) to begin with.

Plus sales don't mean the game is bad. S&P2 was a great game, it just didn't get the right marketing (as well as the genre it is in).