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Heir to the Monado. Shulk General Discussion/Social Thread

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ZXMechonHunter

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Besides, Shulk has a British accent! Can you name one other likely Smash Bros. candidate who has a British accent? Didn't think so.
We haven't had a British character yet, and obviously, because it hasn't happened before and that there's no pattern (Chrom breaking the pattern doesn't count) Shulk can't be in. When has Sakurai ever added British characters? Scoff
#Getonmylevel #beatmyfinalboss
 

Andyjoe522

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We haven't had a British character yet, and obviously, because it hasn't happened before and that there's no pattern (Chrom breaking the pattern doesn't count) Shulk can't be in. When has Sakurai ever added British characters? Scoff
#Getonmylevel #beatmyfinalboss
But Shulk isn't a Brit... He just has the accent of one. :troll:
 

Juliusaurus

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I don't know, couldn't he have been given a hat or a bandanna or something that makes him stand out? Like, look at Link, a big green night cap and pointy ears, you can simplify his character design to no end and if you still include those two elements, you'll know its Link... Shulk though? It's just anime face and anime hair, there's nothing to the look of this guy, he's too much part of the basic anime design structure, he just is.

And don't get me started on his outfit. It's like the designers didn't know when to quit. Something simple and iconic, that's what I would have liked to see. Oh well. It's not much worse than Fire Emblem character design.
 

ZXMechonHunter

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I don't know, couldn't he have been given a hat or a bandanna or something that makes him stand out? Like, look at Link, a big green night cap and pointy ears, you can simplify his character design to no end and if you still include those two elements, you'll know its Link... Shulk though? It's just anime face and anime hair, there's nothing to the look of this guy, he's too much part of the basic anime design structure, he just is.

And don't get me started on his outfit. It's like the designers didn't know when to quit. Something simple and iconic, that's what I would have liked to see. Oh well. It's not much worse than Fire Emblem character design.
I dunno if it's just me, but I never mistook Shulk for a basic anime character. A couple years ago, before Xenoblade came out to America, someone made a list of RPG characters who should be in Smash, and Shulk was the only one who made me raise a brow. Something about him just caught my eye, and I feel like the complex designs on his clothes allow me to identify him more easily. Plus I think his design is pretty damn awesome.
But different strokes.
 

Andyjoe522

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I don't know, couldn't he have been given a hat or a bandanna or something that makes him stand out? Like, look at Link, a big green night cap and pointy ears, you can simplify his character design to no end and if you still include those two elements, you'll know its Link... Shulk though? It's just anime face and anime hair, there's nothing to the look of this guy, he's too much part of the basic anime design structure, he just is.

And don't get me started on his outfit. It's like the designers didn't know when to quit. Something simple and iconic, that's what I would have liked to see. Oh well. It's not much worse than Fire Emblem character design.
Well... If it means anything, you can mix and match different armor pieces. Although I'll grant, some of them, especially the heavy sets, do get a bit out there with their design.

 

Juliusaurus

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I guess I'm too used to seeing complex designs on clothes ever since Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, so it's just another anime trope to me and blurs him in with the rest of the crowd. But if you're the type of person to see uniqueness among different anime characters using the same basic anime structure of design, you'll see more differences in Shulk. But you gotta admit, it's much more subtle of a difference than the difference between more cartoonier characters.
 

DuwangAnon

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I guess I'm too used to seeing complex designs on clothes ever since Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, so it's just another anime trope to me and blurs him in with the rest of the crowd. But if you're the type of person to see uniqueness among different anime characters using the same basic anime structure of design, you'll see more differences in Shulk. But you gotta admit, it's much more subtle of a difference than the difference between more cartoonier characters.
It's really all how you look at it. If ALL anime characters are the same to you, then you're not going to find much difference among anything comin' from J-pan. Even among anime archetypes, there's tons of difference. And characters are amazing when done well.

Shulk isn't done well. He's done medium rare extremely well.
 

TitanTeaTime

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I don't know, couldn't he have been given a hat or a bandanna or something that makes him stand out? Like, look at Link, a big green night cap and pointy ears, you can simplify his character design to no end and if you still include those two elements, you'll know its Link... Shulk though? It's just anime face and anime hair, there's nothing to the look of this guy, he's too much part of the basic anime design structure, he just is.

And don't get me started on his outfit. It's like the designers didn't know when to quit. Something simple and iconic, that's what I would have liked to see. Oh well. It's not much worse than Fire Emblem character design.
Pretty sure Link is like that because there was little to work with on the NES. As for being a "basic anime character," I don't think it's possible to mistake him for an anime character because of the different art styles. I'm not sure if there's really any exact doppelganger of Shulk to be found in anime, and personally I don't mind the outfit - for one, it's iconic. You see that outfit and you think "Shulk." Plus, as @ Andyjoe522 Andyjoe522 up there pointed out, you can change that if you want.
And on a side note, I'm quite partial to FE characters... Though I guess we just have different preferences.
But please, at the very least get the definition of the word anime right. It's driving me insane. It's a style of Japanese film and television animation, typically aimed at adults as well as children. Anime is more of a classification of films and television animation as pointed out in the definition - it has nothing to do with games. Since Shulk himself did not originate from anime, he is not an anime character. Get it?
Actually, I'm pretty sure none of the things you mentioned are technically anime
 
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Juliusaurus

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It's really all how you look at it. If ALL anime characters are the same to you, then you're not going to find much difference among anything comin' from J-pan. Even among anime archetypes, there's tons of difference. And characters are amazing when done well.

Shulk isn't done well. He's done medium rare extremely well.
I'm just not seeing it then. Nothing about his hair, his face, or his outfit is strikingly unique or stands out as iconic, not like Link's hat and ears at least. Even Pit, who has adapted a more anime appearance, still has unique elements to his design, particularly... well, his wings. As an angel he separates himself completely from the rest of the cast in terms of appearance.

Shulk has that funky looking red sword, I'll give you that. It's a much more unique looking sword than the Master Sword or the Falchion... And maybe that's all it'll take.

EDIT: When I say "anime" I mean the basic animation structure of design for the character. It fits a mold.
 
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Andyjoe522

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If you really want to get technical, the actual Japanese definition for anime is... Animation. It's literally the Japanese word for "Cartoon." You could place freaking Family Guy in front of a Japanese person and they would refer to it as an anime. It's really only in the West that we feel compelled to differentiate Japanese animation from out own works.
 

TheFearsomeRyan

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Shulks defining characteristic really is the Monado (the big red sword) While I agree he does look a bit typical he still looks different compared to the rest of the smash roster, especially with the Monado.

EDIT: Unless you put him in some of the weird armor you find in game then he really stands out.
 
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Juliusaurus

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Well, not every Japanese character design uses the "anime" structure that I'm talking about. If you've got a better word for that style, please, let me know.
 

Hype Train

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I'm just not seeing it then. Nothing about his hair, his face, or his outfit is strikingly unique or stands out as iconic, not like Link's hat and ears at least. Even Pit, who has adapted a more anime appearance, still has unique elements to his design, particularly... well, his wings. As an angel he separates himself completely from the rest of the cast in terms of appearance.

Shulk has that funky looking red sword, I'll give you that. It's a much more unique looking sword than the Master Sword or the Falchion... And maybe that's all it'll take.

EDIT: When I say "anime" I mean the basic animation structure of design for the character. It fits a mold.
Hm... Out of curiosity, would the steampunk goggles help differentiate him for you?



Is this any better? I (and a few others) think they add a lot to his design, but we might be biased.
 

DuwangAnon

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If you really want to get technical, the actual Japanese definition for anime is... Animation. It's literally the Japanese word for "Cartoon." You could place freaking Family Guy in front of a Japanese person and they would refer to it as an anime. It's really only in the West that we feel compelled to differentiate Japanese animation from out own works.
Well, here in the West when someone says "cartoon" we think "Superman" or "Samurai Jack." If we were to refer to, say, One Piece or GaoGaiGar as a "cartoon," they'd think of something massively different than what it actually is.
 

Juliusaurus

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Steampunk goggles definitely do help... But then what about Captain Fleming from Codename S.T.E.A.M.??? That guy pretty much owns the steampunk look. Heheh.

But no, I agree, the Monado is definitely his defining characteristic.
 

DuwangAnon

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Steampunk goggles definitely do help... But then what about Captain Fleming from Codename S.T.E.A.M.??? That guy pretty much owns the steampunk look. Heheh.

But no, I agree, the Monado is definitely his defining characteristic.
You may want to use "generic fantasy" instead of "generic anime." Because "anime" itself is too broad to be considered generic, and even then, it doesn't apply to what you're looking for. If what you're trying to say he looks like a "typical video game character, the defining features of whom I see little save the shiny red toy on his back" then that's a bit more coherent.


He still doesn't, though. I mean, no spiky hair at all.
 

MegaLagann

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I don't know, couldn't he have been given a hat or a bandanna or something that makes him stand out? Like, look at Link, a big green night cap and pointy ears, you can simplify his character design to no end and if you still include those two elements, you'll know its Link... Shulk though? It's just anime face and anime hair, there's nothing to the look of this guy, he's too much part of the basic anime design structure, he just is.

And don't get me started on his outfit. It's like the designers didn't know when to quit. Something simple and iconic, that's what I would have liked to see. Oh well. It's not much worse than Fire Emblem character design.
Might I direct you to the GIANT RED LASER BEAM SWORD THAT CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE. Also Link has anime eyes and hair too so I don't see your point.

I just hate the "generic anime dnfinfiritt" argument because it's such a blanket statement that really doesn't mean anything. Anime is a medium, not a genre, so there's no defining look not matter how many times someone says otherwise. You can say you don't like his design, that's fine, but to say it's too anime literally makes no sense since I can say that about Link, Pikachu, Pit, Captain Falcon, Marth, Villager and Kirby. Actually those characters are more anime than Shulk since they actually had animes.

Also, how long has it been since we've had a detractor? Shulk really is moving up to the big time.
 

Juliusaurus

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It's a style that fits with several actual anime as well, so it's not exclusive to video games. It's just the semi-realistic humanoid figures with a very structured look. I think everybody pretty much gets it when I say "anime", they just don't like it.

And yes, Link has that structure and so does Pit, but they at least have very defining characteristics that extend beyond the art style, which is seen with early artwork of Link and Pit as well as Toon Link. Characters from Fire Emblem and Xenoblade on the other hand have designs that don't have those iconic characteristics that are recognizable even if you simplified the art style.
 
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DuwangAnon

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It's a style that fits with several actual anime as well, so it's not exclusive to video games. It's just the semi-realistic humanoid figures with a very structured look. I think everybody pretty much gets it when I say "anime", they just don't like it.

And yes, Link has that structure and so does Pit, but they at least have very defining characteristics that extend beyond the art style, which is seen with early artwork of Link and Pit as well as Toon Link. Characters from Fire Emblem and Xenoblade on the other hand have designs that don't have those iconic characteristics that are recognizable even if you simplified the art style.
Marth has a tiara. How many manly men do you know with tiaras?
Your argument is an invalid.
 

Banjodorf

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> Brings up how he looks unique with Steampunk goggles, and already has a unique characteristic.

> Says "How about this character with Steampunk goggles instead?" (Who, by the way, means far less to Nintendo at the present time, and if they ever want to get their new high budget game (XCX) more sales, Shulk's their man.

Look, I'm cool if you don't really like his look, but there's alot he can offer as a character to Smash specifically. Yes, most of it is the Monado, but his character, even without it, still looks unique in the Smash environment.
 

Juliusaurus

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> Brings up how he looks unique with Steampunk goggles, and already has a unique characteristic.

> Says "How about this character with Steampunk goggles instead?" (Who, by the way, means far less to Nintendo at the present time, and if they ever want to get their new high budget game (XCX) more sales, Shulk's their man.

Look, I'm cool if you don't really like his look, but there's alot he can offer as a character to Smash specifically. Yes, most of it is the Monado, but his character, even without it, still looks unique in the Smash environment.
...Umm, that was a joke (although I would like to see Captain Fleming in Smash 5, he's got plenty about his character design that's unique)

With the goggles, he'd at least stand apart, but without them he's just a generic anime structured character with a unique sword, a unique sword that makes him stand out, so it's good enough.
 

SkittleE

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With the goggles, he'd at least stand apart, but without them he's just a generic anime structured character with a unique sword, a unique sword that makes him stand out, so it's good enough.
Well, even if you don't like how he looks, don't judge a book by its cover. He is still a fantastic character from a fantastic game, and if you own it you really should try playing more of it. I doubt you'll regret it.
 

Banjodorf

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...Umm, that was a joke (although I would like to see Captain Fleming in Smash 5, he's got plenty about his character design that's unique)

With the goggles, he'd at least stand apart, but without them he's just a generic anime structured character with a unique sword, a unique sword that makes him stand out, so it's good enough.
Maybe graphically, but I ask you again to be careful when saying "Generic Anime" over "Generic Fantasy", which fits far more and will prevent me from bringing up that there hasn't actually been a traditional anime-styled Xenoblade anything. It's just a common fantasy look, but I don't see what's really wrong with that, since it managed to find it's unique visuals and create it's own atmosphere.

Out of pure curiousity, have you played Xenoblade? He does actually have a more interesting character than your typical JRPG protagonist, a point that's been discussed many times in the thread, and is often thrown into our faces only by people who haven't played the game. Apologies, if you have I missed a bit of earlier discussion, and I'm far too tired to go back through the thread.

And as a bit of levity, no one can deny the uniqueness of his bringing some smexy britishness into Smash! :shades:
 
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firebrand38

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I bought Xenoblade knowing that Shulk has a great chance to be in Smash. I was indifferent towards him at first but now I really want him in since I've played his game! Shulk has my support for sure.
 

Juliusaurus

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Maybe graphically, but I ask you again to be careful when saying "Generic Anime" over "Generic Fantasy", which fits far more and will prevent me from bringing up that there hasn't actually been a traditional anime-styled Xenoblade anything. It's just a common fantasy look, but I don't see what's really wrong with that, since it managed to find it's unique visuals and create it's own atmosphere.

Out of pure curiousity, have you played Xenoblade? He does actually have a more interesting character than your typical JRPG protagonist, a point that's been discussed many times in the thread, and is often thrown into our faces only by people who haven't played the game. Apologies, if you have I missed a bit of earlier discussion, and I'm far too tired to go back through the thread.

And as a bit of levity, no one can deny the uniqueness of his bringing some smexy britishness into Smash! :shades:
It's not a fantasy look either, as it's a style that's been used in non-fantasy shows and games. It's the actual art style, not the genre. And yes, I own the game and have played a bit of it, but it general I do not enjoy RPGs so it didn't really glue me.
 

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It's not a fantasy look either, as it's a style that's been used in non-fantasy shows and games. It's the actual art style, not the genre. And yes, I own the game and have played a bit of it, but it general I do not enjoy RPGs so it didn't really glue me.
Well, if it's not your cup-a-tea it's not your cup-a-tea, that's all good.

(I don't see "anime" when I look at Xenoblade's art style at all, but I think we've discussed this too much.)

Although, I'm pretty interested in what brought you here if the game/character aren't really your thing, out of curiosity only, I promise! We like people here!
 

Whit

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It's a style that fits with several actual anime as well, so it's not exclusive to video games. It's just the semi-realistic humanoid figures with a very structured look. I think everybody pretty much gets it when I say "anime", they just don't like it.

And yes, Link has that structure and so does Pit, but they at least have very defining characteristics that extend beyond the art style, which is seen with early artwork of Link and Pit as well as Toon Link. Characters from Fire Emblem and Xenoblade on the other hand have designs that don't have those iconic characteristics that are recognizable even if you simplified the art style.
This guy, lol.

It makes me happy though because what Juliusaurus is saying basically sums up the entirety of the opposition against Shulk. Beside's what he(she?)'s saying, which is by far the minority opinion, Shulk is a character that has only pros going for him. His inclusion is imminent and everybody knows it and the majority are happy with it. He is a unique character in both aesthetics (JRPG. Get over it) and skill set that has earned his way into smash.

Anyway that's my spiel, keep on posting Juliusaurus! It's different having a detractor around. We're all so ****ing positive here!
 

Juliusaurus

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That's really my only beef against him, and like I said, I actually expect him and want him based on how Xenoblade is now a Nintendo first party franchise that has spanned multiple generations. It's the exact same criteria F-zero, Star Fox, and Earthbound went through before they had a character playable.

That doesn't stop Shulk from being a generic anime pretty boy looking character... I'm not going to like him, but I do think he should be in.
 

Whit

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That's really my only beef against him, and like I said, I actually expect him and want him based on how Xenoblade is now a Nintendo first party franchise that has spanned multiple generations. It's the exact same criteria F-zero, Star Fox, and Earthbound went through before they had a character playable.

That doesn't stop Shulk from being a generic anime pretty boy looking character... I'm not going to like him, but I do think he should be in.
What's your other beef besides aesthetics?
 

SkittleE

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That's really my only beef against him, and like I said, I actually expect him and want him based on how Xenoblade is now a Nintendo first party franchise that has spanned multiple generations. It's the exact same criteria F-zero, Star Fox, and Earthbound went through before they had a character playable.

That doesn't stop Shulk from being a generic anime pretty boy looking character... I'm not going to like him, but I do think he should be in.
Wait, I'm confused. You want him, but you don't like him? (Based off of his appearance alone, nonetheless?)
 

Juliusaurus

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Yes, there's a difference between characters I like and characters I want. Characters I want are characters I feel should be in the game based on their importance to Nintendo, iconic status, past criteria from characters already included, etc... That doesn't mean I have to like the characters.

And aside from aesthetics, there's not much of a beef. But I do think aesthetics are important for a character to stand out, which most characters in Smash do. But with the Monado, I think Shulk has it alright.
 

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Yes, there's a difference between characters I like and characters I want. Characters I want are characters I feel should be in the game based on their importance to Nintendo, iconic status, past criteria from characters already included, etc... That doesn't mean I have to like the characters.

And aside from aesthetics, there's not much of a beef. But I do think aesthetics are important for a character to stand out, which most characters in Smash do. But with the Monado, I think Shulk has it alright.
So then where's the beef? (Ha) Seriously though, what the heck have you been arguing about for so long if you're okay with the aesthetics? Or has your opinion just been changed by being in this thread?
 
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Juliusaurus

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So then where's the beef? (Ha) Seriously though, what the heck have you been arguing about for so long if not aesthetics? Juliusaurus pls get your opinions in order
It's always been the aesthetics... That's always been my beef. He looks like a generic template anime character, and if it wasn't for the sword I'd kick him to the curb.

Yes, that's what we've been arguing about the whole time, that I think he's a generic anime looking pretty boy, and others disagreeing with that statement.
 

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But in that case, he literally wouldn't exist without the sword, so arguing about what could be seems like a non-issue, since Shulk and the Monado go hand-in-hand. I don't really understand, honestly.

(About arguing theoreticals, and that these theoreticals would make you dislike something. Even though they're never going to happen.)
 
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Whit

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It's always been the aesthetics... That's always been my beef. He looks like a generic template anime character, and if it wasn't for the sword I'd kick him to the curb.

Yes, that's what we've been arguing about the whole time, that I think he's a generic anime looking pretty boy, and others disagreeing with that statement.
K.

My 250th like! I'd like to thank the academy...
 
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Juliusaurus

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But in that case, he literally wouldn't exist without the sword, so arguing about what could be seems like a non-issue, since Shulk and the Monado go hand-in-hand. I don't really understand, honestly.

(About arguing theoreticals, and that these theoreticals would make you dislike something. Even though they're never going to happen.)
The sword barely cuts it (hyuk). For example, look at Pikmin. The real star and the real distinction is the Pikmin themselves, but that doesn't mean Olimar can't be a little unique himself. And so both are made unique. Shulk has the unique sword, but as a character without the sword he's just a nobody, a boring old nobody. He's got the Pikmin quality, but not the Olimar quality.

Doesn't matter, it's just something I think makes the character less appealing at large. Fire Emblem character suffer the same issue generally, and they're still included. Shulk will be too. I just wish he wasn't so dull (and who knows, maybe Sakurai will include goggles for him, giving me a little itty bitty something to be happy about).
 
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