Has Smash Bros. lost its Competative Edge?

[DRaGZ]

This thread is such a roflcopter.

 

[Laertes]

I'm not sure how much more of this crap I can take. I've played melee on and off since i got it in 2001. it's 2008. I've never once been to a tournament; the key is finding players who are better than you and working to beat them, and trust me-- there will be better players than YOU. as far as physics issues that weren't debugged (i.e. wavedashing) who cares if they were fixed? a true competitor won't need the edge to win and I know casuals don't care. btw, did you watch those awing melee videos 3 weeks before it released in North America? retorical question. This topic belongs on gamefaqs with the other 23,000 "watching this game on youtube just doesnt seem as fun as playing melee--wtf sakurai?" topics.

 

[Metalknux]

tl;dr .

 

[spindash]

No offense, but you need to change your title of this thread to, "Why you will most likely not be playing Brawl 6 years after it's release."

And yes, I did read it all. You are amongst the many Melee Elitists that refuse to accept a form of change, and can't wrap your head around the fact that it's been out for 11 goddamm days, Melee's competitive scene did not flourish overnight. 2005 was the real awakening of more things competitive that we can comprehend in Melee.

Go ahead and stay with Melee, or "High Gravity" as some of the bull**** 2.0 wannabes are looking at, but don't speak for the entire community when many people can disagree with you in the first place.

I'm sure in the past 9 pages of this thread that holds nothing but concerns/complaints about Brawl because it's not a copy of Melee, that someone already silenced you with an optimistic outlook on what Brawl will truly have in store for us. Someone's likely said what I've said, but I'll say it again.

You're the one who will most likely not be playing Brawl 6 years after it's release, if you keep up that attitude.

 

[Losnar]

Fall speed is not the same for all characters.

I dunno what this moron was talking about.

 

[Takeshi245]

Fall speed is not the same for all characters.

I dunno what this moron was talking about.

Which is why assumptions aren't always the right step to go. Well, all of the topic creator's points have been refuted and there's nothing he can logically do to support his point except to realize he was wrong. There's that, and close the thread with the last post being the Landmaster pic with Wolf in it.

 

[NitrousFlare]

No offense, but you need to change your title of this thread to, "Why you will most likely not be playing Brawl 6 years after it's release."

And yes, I did read it all. You are amongst the many Melee Elitists that refuse to accept a form of change, and can't wrap your head around the fact that it's been out for 11 goddamm days, Melee's competitive scene did not flourish overnight. 2005 was the real awakening of more things competitive that we can comprehend in Melee.

Go ahead and stay with Melee, or "High Gravity" as some of the bull**** 2.0 wannabes are looking at, but don't speak for the entire community when many people can disagree with you in the first place.

I'm sure in the past 9 pages of this thread that holds nothing but concerns/complaints about Brawl because it's not a copy of Melee, that someone already silenced you with an optimistic outlook on what Brawl will truly have in store for us. Someone's likely said what I've said, but I'll say it again.

You're the one who will most likely not be playing Brawl 6 years after it's release, if you keep up that attitude.

OH MY GOD! pwn! All over your face Ghettoman!!!!!

I totally agree with spindash.

 

[Stryks]

Ok so melee is still being played to this day, and with lack of offline, some (like me) can only play with cpus 90% of the time, since getting friends together a certain date alone is hard enough...

and brawl will be more balanced, and wil lhave wifi, meaning I can play with people with skill, and not just some c. falcon cpu that does the upb move every 30 seconds...

yeah I dont see the logic here...

 

[Bassoonist]

It probably won't last me 6 years (maybe a year or two at maximum), but I can say that there is no way this game won't be competitive. New advanced techniques will be found.

 

[staindgrey]

Sorry, somehow posted twice. v see below v

 

[staindgrey]

Posts like this read like a soccer mom trying to analyze a chess match between two grand masters. Geeeez.

It's posts like this that make the 'professionals' seem arrogant. I don't enjoy those kinds of games and stopped using L-Canceling and wavedashing because I'd much rather play with different levels, items, and a wider range of characters without people getting screwed. So, this makes me a 'soccer mom'? That doesn't even make sense.

ok let me expand on one point. that p[oint is depth.

ok yes so far it seems like brawl has less of it. the biggest things you can say is that l cancling and wave dashing are gone. this is big in melee as it made chars such as luigi and samus more viable char choices in melee. could you imagine how it would be watching say hugs or wes playing as samus without them wavedashing.. they would be no where near as good as they are in melee because of the loss of mind games. l canceling made people like bowzer and gannon playable in melee..... well maybe not bowzer but oh well. you could actually make them get faster then what they were. this is all part of depth. now in other games like street fighter, when "glitches" were found the creators did not simple go back and rework the whole game to get rid of these techs. what they did was they embraced them and harnessed them in the game making it a more fair game. now street fighter could be played by anyone. people who want a competitve game and people who want just a fun game where they can beat each other up. i think most people who played melee expected brawl to go more towards the route of a streetfighter game rather then taking a step back to how 64 smash was. (also 64 smash did have l can. just for the record.) it is almost like they jumped from 64 to brawl.. if you gave someone these 3 games (lets say a 9 year old) in 10 years on a virtual console with no info and they all looked the same, then asked the childto put the games in order he would probly say brawl is after 64 because (from what i have heard) the game plays more like 64 then it does melee.

now i am not saying i wont like the game or i wont be playing the hell out of it. march 9th my day looks like this, 12 am: get brawl at video store. 12:15 am: get back to house and play brawl with friends. 10 am: take a **** and a piss. 7 pm: tell friends to go home o i can pla adventure mode. 2 am: stop playing brawl and go to be dreaming about it. however the facts of this game are facts. it has got less depth then in melee and sakuri even said it did in his interview with iwata saying that he doesnt like how only a couple of people can be at the top of the iceburg. however the game will be exactly what it is suppose to be. a great party game. we shall see how the tourny scene makes out in a year or 2.

...I really shouldn't touch on this one. You sound like an idiot. If you can honestly compare Brawl to Melee's graphics, you're crazy. The gameplay is the same exact speed, it simply doesn't have wavedashing and l-canceling. THAT'S IT. This game has far, FAR, FAAAAAAARRRRRRR (am I making this point clear?) more depth!

Brawl > Melee

Characters: 35 > 25
Levels: 41 > 29
Online: Yes > No
1P: SSE > Adventure Mode
3rd Party: 2 > 0

Then you add in many more brand new items, unlockable trophies and stickers... How the hell does Melee have more depth?? You're just pissed off because you have to find a new way to own. Well, let's see... It's a NEW GAME. That's supposed to happen! It's been repeated over and over again, but I'll say it too:

If you wanted Melee 2.0, go play Melee again.

But, give it less than a year, and most everyone will be Brawl-ized. There will still be those that cling to their wavedashing GCN ways, but most will convert just like the 64ers converted to Melee. You're pissed now, but once you find some glitch to make yourself unstoppable again, Melee will be a thing of the past.

If you're really such a great, competitive gamer, you'll be able to find a new way to be competitive. That's what the game is for.

 

[SonicSmash001]

Lmfao you are such a loser, you didn't check the tons of threads talking about this stuff, just because its different from melee doesn't make it worse. I seriously get pissed off when people do stuff like that.

 

[Project Occasus]

An opinion can be bad you know. When it's based on assumptions, that's bad.

Just think of the track record. SSB64 was popular, and i played it for ages on end, while the same could be said for melee. It smells like a pattern to me!

Please just try to base arguments or even opinions with more rationality.

 

[maian]

size=1]I'm not competitive, (although I consider myself good enough to start getting into it in Brawl) so it doesn't affect me much. But I KNOW that me, and probably 90% of the Brawl community will play Brawl until the inevitable SSB4. I'm also quite confident new advanced techs will surface after awhile. It's not like someone turned on Melee and said, "Wow, if I airdodge to the right while barely jumping, I sweep to the right! I'll call this the wavedash, it certainly looks like it can do a lot of things!"[/size]

 

[Lucas_User]

I didnt read it. :\

 

[T0MMY]

I lol'd when I read the initial post.
No "Ken Combo's"
That's already been done in a Brawl tournament, I think it was Silentwolf's Marth at Smashfest:Eugene, expect to see vids of it up soon.
The game hasn't even been released in NA yet and you're complaining about it. It took Melee players YEARS to get some of those techniques down. Why don't you learn some patience, or get the game yourself and start figuring things out, it's easy to whine about things when everyone else is doing your work for you. I should know, I invented all the advanced techniques for Pichu because NOBODY played that character. I didn't sit there posting on the boards saying "come on guys, come up with awesome things for me to learn."
As for the glitches of doom, you complain there's no shine-infinites like in Melee, and then go and say Brawl is doomed because it doesn't have them. wtf, there's logic for you. The other glitches are just plain dumb, Falco's laser lock requires certain characters to be at a certain percent against a wall (which are banned in tournaments). And as for Snake's "glitch" how about you just don't Up+B against the wall on that stage, try going at it from a distance.
Here's a tip from someone who plays in pro brackets and owns Brawl: MORE GOOD!

 

[Scicky]

Lol'd

Speak for yourself >>

Also, none of those are glitches, and odds are, stages with walls will be banned...

Thing about it, if someone ripped you out of your car and threw you would you magically
be able to spawn another car?

 

[SrL04]

Accidental double post-

 

[Help!]

So uhmm... there were infinites in melee... like wobbling... and foxes drill shine infinite on a wall... there were glitches in melee... these do look pretty bad but its not like melee was perfect. and snakes recovery i think someone posted saying that sakurai said it would do that but i dont know. but there is one big problem with the thether recovery. but dont shoot this game down already cause when melee came out there were no ken combos or foxes wave shines give it some time seriously

 

[Noypi_GjD]

I didnt read it. :\

Than why bother posting? Pathetically getting your post count up?

While I do agree that its dumbed down, I can see it lasting long for a while. I myself don't see me playing more than 6 years. I told myself that to melee, but honestly there are more deep games that this. I hope that the game does surprise us, but at the moment, Sakurai looks like he intended it to have more style over substance, I hope I am wrong.

 

[AthrunZala]

It's posts like this that make the 'professionals' seem arrogant. I don't enjoy those kinds of games and stopped using L-Canceling and wavedashing because I'd much rather play with different levels, items, and a wider range of characters without people getting screwed. So, this makes me a 'soccer mom'? That doesn't even make sense.



...I really shouldn't touch on this one. You sound like an idiot. If you can honestly compare Brawl to Melee's graphics, you're crazy. The gameplay is the same exact speed, it simply doesn't have wavedashing and l-canceling. THAT'S IT. This game has far, FAR, FAAAAAAARRRRRRR (am I making this point clear?) more depth!

Brawl > Melee

Characters: 35 > 25
Levels: 41 > 29
Online: Yes > No
1P: SSE > Adventure Mode
3rd Party: 2 > 0

Then you add in many more brand new items, unlockable trophies and stickers... How the hell does Melee have more depth?? You're just pissed off because you have to find a new way to own. Well, let's see... It's a NEW GAME. That's supposed to happen! It's been repeated over and over again, but I'll say it too:

If you wanted Melee 2.0, go play Melee again.

But, give it less than a year, and most everyone will be Brawl-ized. There will still be those that cling to their wavedashing GCN ways, but most will convert just like the 64ers converted to Melee. You're pissed now, but once you find some glitch to make yourself unstoppable again, Melee will be a thing of the past.

If you're really such a great, competitive gamer, you'll be able to find a new way to be competitive. That's what the game is for.

just because a game has more chars, levels and a better adventure mode doesnt mean it has as much depth you ******. it just means there is more content. content is not depth when playing the actual game.

and yes if you are smart you would be able to look at the graphics of each game and tell which one came when. hence why i said remove graphics. the game play is slower, slower, sllllloooooowwerrr (get the point) in brawl. most of the chars are slower. you fall slower. the game is overall slower then melee. which is why it is like taking a step back. 64 was slower then melee. brawl is in between.

you dont have to exploit glitchs to become good. glitchs are things you just accept. anik (sorry i dont know how to spell that crazy asians name lol) plays and beats most melee players with out wavedashing. what seperates great players from the noobs is knowing when to do stuff and when not to. its about tricking your foe into doing what you want him to do. this is in any competitive game such as halo. the problem is when a series takes a step in the wrong direction it will be hard for people to be excited about playing it cometitvely.

oh and btw online means nothing with this game. online is so bad in this game you would have thought they would of at least looked at how online games are played other then go by nintendos "everyone is equal and all we care about is money" philosophy. so no online doesnt do jack **** for brawl.

 

[bylim5]

seriosuly, its players like people here who are the reason why people may not be playing this game after 6 years. so negative and in this world-weary state. Get a ****ing life, no game is perfect, no game can suit your taste.

Nintendo isn't a public servant, its a business. It doesn't serve you for 'video game humanity', but it still does what it can anyway.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

The gameplay is the same exact speed, it simply doesn't have wavedashing and l-canceling. THAT'S IT.
Thats a shallow analysis of the game, I see a lot more than that.

This game has far, FAR, FAAAAAAARRRRRRR (am I making this point clear?) more depth!
Brawl > Melee [
B]In what aspect? While I would agree, this is a useless point.[/B]
Characters: 35 > 25
More does not necessarily mean better if the tiers are very drastic, this will be settled in the future
Levels: 41 > 29
Levels are gimmicky, only the tournament fair ones are relevant
Online: Yes > No
I still expect competitive tournaments to be offline, online does not give it more 'depth'
1P: SSE > Adventure Mode
Single player is irrelevant to tournaments
3rd Party: 2 > 0
how does this relate to depth?

Then you add in many more brand new items, unlockable trophies and stickers its a good for single player, but still just a bunch of gimmicks. Points are irrelevant to 'depth'... How the hell does Melee have more depth?? You're just pissed off because you have to find a new way to own
Assumption. Everyone will have to find a new way..
Well, let's see... It's a NEW GAME
I am sure everyone knows this, just saying 'new game' is not a valid point. Heck if they removed double jump I don't expect people saying 'new game' as a point so this isn't one either..
That's supposed to happen! It's been repeated over and over again, but I'll say it too:

If you wanted Melee 2.0, go play Melee again.
Don't you mean, if he wants to play melee play melee. Melee 2.0 doesn't mean anything sorry. If I'm playing a melee-cloned brawl, I would still be playing Brawl

But, give it less than a year, and most everyone will be Brawl-ized. There will still be those that cling to their wavedashing GCN ways, but most will convert just like the 64ers converted to Melee. You're pissed now, but once you find some glitch to make yourself unstoppable again, Melee will be a thing of the past.
Glitch, thats cute. Yeah, I suppose ther game still looks technical as it is right now, but to me it seems that you are just happy to see all these gimmicks to give your game depth.

If you're really such a great, competitive gamer, you'll be able to find a new way to be competitive. That's what the game is for.
I'm sure Brawl will be competitive, but sorry, not all games (Soul Calibur 3, Mortal Kombat...) are worth being competitive for.

Sorry but I feel like I have to defend the TC. The point was that the game will not last long, and it seems a lot of people are saying that they will play the game for 6 years. It is highly questionable since most of the peeps here haven't played the game.

seriosuly, its players like people here who are the reason why people may not be playing this game after 6 years. so negative and in this world-weary state. Get a ****ing life, no game is perfect, no game can suit your taste. Nintendo isn't a public servant, its a business. It doesn't serve you for 'video game humanity', but it still does what it can anyway.

Your post supports that this game will not last 6 years. Also, for bashing all the negative and pessimistic people on the forum, it doesn't appear that you are one of the optimistic and positive people around here.

 

[bylim5]

dont forget also, that maybe a new smash bros will come out.

 

[User33]

This topic proves: Everyone *****ing about this game is a tourny f@g.

 

[NES n00b]

This topic proves: Everyone *****ing about this game is a tourny f@g.

^^^^^^ casual f@g?

 

[Brawler1432]

You r quite dumb to thin of brawl this way. First off, from a competitive standpoint, what makes you think brawl won't have good techs, SSB64 barely had any, and people had to FIND the ones i melee. This takes time and you can't expect all the techs to be discovered right after the Japanese release, and before the US release.

From a casual standpoint (I prefer not to be known as competitive nor casual ) you are criticizing the game because it balances characters? You use a shield of glitches to get to the top, and this has nothing to do with how good you r at the actual game. How would you feel if there were never ever techs in the SSB series? Your opinion would be incredibly different.

From both stand points:

1: Im going to assume you've never played Brawl, and how can you base a game on how many techs it has before you've even played it?

2: There is Wi Fi, ONLINE! This increases any games lifespan, and is new to the SSB series. You have to think of how many years thiis could add on the the main lifespan of the game.

 

[T0MMY]

This thread fails considering BRAWL IS BEING PLAYED COMPETITIVELY ALREADY.
Last weekend at Smashfest:Eugene there was a Brawl tournament, and guess what the players said? They love it. They, and myself included, forgot Melee ever existed.
There was only one player who said they didn't like it, but he complains about everything anyway.

It comes down to this:
If you like Smash 64, go play that.
IF you like Melee, go play that.
If you like Brawl go play that.
If you like Go, go play that (haha pun).

 

[SrL04]

Look, people...Those are some nasty infinites/glitches...I agree with the original topic maker that it is ridiculous that they made things so much easier like automatic tether sweet spots (which lowers the possibilities/options of your moves). We have automatic combos such as bullet seed doing a lot of damage (and a long stun time) in which...in a 2v2...would be really something while your opponent attacks him or w/e. We've got infinites of rapid jabs just by holding A with someone against a wall. Just because it is different from Melee in this case...I think...had gone a wrong turn in making things a lot easier for people. I think there is an extent to how fast the game play will be according to how floaty characters are. I'm sure people will be playing this game for a long time, and as all of the hidden techs arise, it still may be a disappointment for people who have been competitively playing smash.

"I didnt read it. :\" "Lmfao you are such a loser, you didn't check the tons of threads talking about this stuff, just because its different from melee doesn't make it worse. I seriously get pissed off when people do stuff like that." - No one cares.

 

[Hitzel]

This game has far, FAR, FAAAAAAARRRRRRR (am I making this point clear?) more depth!

Brawl > Melee

Characters: 35 > 25
Levels: 41 > 29
Online: Yes > No
1P: SSE > Adventure Mode
3rd Party: 2 > 0

Aside from online, that's pretty shallow...

The determining issue here is this:

AT's, intentional or not, are just as much a part of Smash as normal gameplay mechanics because at the end of the day, they are gameplay mechanics. Take them out and you're taking away from the depth of the game. Period. Sakurai has taken many of the important ones out of Smash when he made Brawl. If he didn't rebuild what he destroyed, Brawl isn't going to have the longevity that Melee and 64 had. The gimmicks don't mean anything.

And if that turns out to be true, it won't be the first game series it's happened to. People need to wake up to smell the roses and stop blindly denying the possibility that Brawl may not be fun long term. It's definitely a possibility, and people are setting themselves up for disappointment. Only time will tell.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

another topic among the hundreds of people complaining about a game they've never played based on things they think are broken but are not.

good job, you are so smart, i wish i could complain about brawl all the time for a little infamy run, but you guys are too good at it already.

 

[Hitzel]

another topic among the hundreds of people complaining about a game they've never played based on things they think are broken but are not.

good job, you are so smart, i wish i could complain about brawl all the time for a little infamy run, but you guys are too good at it already.

And what about the people blindly supporting Brawl and denying any negative possibilities? Are they any better?

 

[NES n00b]

And what about the people blindly supporting Brawl and denying any negative possibilities? Are they any better?

Yes because it agrees with the majority of the board dedicated to smash and Gimpy. My god, get with the times.

 

[Brawler1432]

And what about the people blindly supporting Brawl and denying any negative possibilities? Are they any better?

Half are blindly defending brawl, the other half are recognizing the stupidity of the argument.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Last weekend at Smashfest:Eugene there was a Brawl tournament, and guess what the players said? They love it. They, and myself included, forgot Melee ever existed.

I like hearing things like this, though out of curiosity, did you guys play "competitive" Melee? I just REALLY like to hear competitive Melee players say they like Brawl. It means quite a lot more to me than when casuals weigh in.

Anyway, the bottom line is that this IS just a video game. If we end up disliking it that's just the way things go. I'd basically bet my life that it won't reach Melee's level of depth and technique, but hey. To me, Melee is infinitely deep and the greatest game ever created. If Brawl is half as deep it will still be somewhat competitive. If not, we'll move on. No use getting upset about the way the game is now, it is how it is. All you can do now is sit back and enjoy (or not lolz).

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

It's posts like this that make the 'professionals' seem arrogant. I don't enjoy those kinds of games and stopped using L-Canceling and wavedashing because I'd much rather play with different levels, items, and a wider range of characters without people getting screwed. So, this makes me a 'soccer mom'? That doesn't even make sense.



...I really shouldn't touch on this one. You sound like an idiot. If you can honestly compare Brawl to Melee's graphics, you're crazy. The gameplay is the same exact speed, it simply doesn't have wavedashing and l-canceling. THAT'S IT. This game has far, FAR, FAAAAAAARRRRRRR (am I making this point clear?) more depth!

Brawl > Melee

Characters: 35 > 25
Levels: 41 > 29
Online: Yes > No
1P: SSE > Adventure Mode
3rd Party: 2 > 0

Then you add in many more brand new items, unlockable trophies and stickers... How the hell does Melee have more depth?? You're just pissed off because you have to find a new way to own. Well, let's see... It's a NEW GAME. That's supposed to happen! It's been repeated over and over again, but I'll say it too:

If you wanted Melee 2.0, go play Melee again.

But, give it less than a year, and most everyone will be Brawl-ized. There will still be those that cling to their wavedashing GCN ways, but most will convert just like the 64ers converted to Melee. You're pissed now, but once you find some glitch to make yourself unstoppable again, Melee will be a thing of the past.

If you're really such a great, competitive gamer, you'll be able to find a new way to be competitive. That's what the game is for.

The gameplay is not the exact same speed due to all of the floatiness and all of that nonsense. Also, so far, Brawl is DEFINITELY not even close to being as deep as Melee. What the hell are you talking about? If you're saying the game is the same speed and that wavedashing was removed, it has more depth? Your argument makes no sense. What you said about Brawl having a lot more depth than Melee because it's the same speed minus wavedashing is like saying 40 - 1 > 40. You do not include a SINGLE bit of evidence to back Brawl being deeper than Melee. Also, your whole Brawl > Melee thing with the comparisons... yeah.... you did not account for the game's physics a single time during that whole thing. Most of us are judging Brawl as being good from a Melee competitor's point of view, so levels and Wi-Fi don't really matter to us. We limit levels that give an unfair advantage to some characters anyway, and chances are, the amount of extra levels will only be like one or two more for competitive play. Characters, well, I'll give you that part of the argument, but the games physics are mainly the most important part when arguing with Melee's vet players.

 

[Cosine]

you should really look up somw of the First Melee turnies following its realease

 

[PokemonLegacy]

Reply

Are gimmicks going to matter in six years?

Are AT's going to matter in six years?

Hmm...

What Seperates Pokemon Diamond & Pearl from red & blue? Gimmicks. Yes, its a cheap strategy, but it works!

 

[Gimpyfish62]

almost every single person i've ever talked to who played melee competitively loves brawl a lot with a few choice exceptions

the people who love it include pc chris and azen among many others, everyone needs to calm down.

 

[Hitzel]

What Seperates Pokemon Diamond & Pearl from red & blue? Gimmicks. Yes, its a cheap strategy, but it works!

See: Halo 3.

Yes, it does work.