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Guide to Competitive Battling

Riddle

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
1,656
Location
Rochester, NY
This is a work in progress and I would appreciate any help =D.



Hello there. You've stumbled upon a guide to competitive battling. Have fun reading it =). This will assume that you know a bit about what's what in game, but will further explain upon those facts.

Table of Contents (You can use the terms in brackets to find each section):
1) The basics [BSCS]
2) Competitive basics [CMPT]
2.1) Natures
2.2) IVs (Individual Values)
2.3) EVs (Effort Values)​
3) Statuses [STS]
4) Items [ITMS]
5) Moves [MVES]
5.1) Attacking Moves
5.2) Support Moves
5.3) Move priority
6) Abilities [ABLT]​
7) Tiers [TRS]
8) Types of Pokemon [PKMN]
8.1) Offensive
8.1.1) Sweepers
8.1.2) Mixed Sweepers/Wall-breakers
8.1.3) All-out Attackers
8.1.4) Revenge Killers​
8.2) Defensive Pokemon
8.2.1) Walls
8.2.2) Tanks​
8.3) Support Pokemon
8.3.1) (Toxic) Spikers
8.3.2) Rapid Spinners
8.3.3) (P)Hazers
8.3.4) Clerics/Healers
8.3.5) Baton Passers
8.3.6) Miscellaneous Supporters​
9) Types of teams [TMS]
10.1) Balanced
9.2) Stall
9.2.1) Full stall
9.2.2) Semi-stall​
9.3) Offense
9.3.1) Bulky offense
9.3.2) Heavy offense​
9.4) Rain Dance
9.5) Sunny Day
9.6) Sandstorm
9.7) Hail
9.8) Trick Room​
10) Get out there! [GTOTR]

Onto the guide!

1) The Basics [BSCS]



Assuming you've played the in-game Pokemon before, a lot of this should be common knowledge to you. However, here they are again for general use.

Different types of stats:

Hit Points: Shortened as HP, this determines how much damage your Pokemon can take before it faints. If it reaches 0, your Pokemon faints and you must switch in another one.

Attack: Shortened as Atk, this determines how much damage you do with physically-based moves.

Defense: Shortened as Def, this deteremines how much damage you take from physically-based moves.

Special Attack: Shortened as SpA or SAtk, this determines how much damage you do with specially-based moves.

Special Defense: Shortened as SpD or SDef, this deteremines how much damage you take from specially-based moves.

Speed: Shortened as Spe or Spd (not to be confused with Special Defense), this determines which Pokemon will move first. If both Pokemon have the same Speed stat, then either Pokemon will have a 50/50 chance of moving first.

Types of moves:

In Pokemon, there are three types of moves: Physical, Special, and other. Physical moves work off of the Attack stat, and are composed of such moves as Close Combat and Earthquake. They hit the Defense stat of the opposing Pokemon. Special moves are based off of the Special Attack stat, and include such moves as Surf, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt. They hit the Special Defense of the opposing Pokemon. Other moves are moves that don't deal that type of damage, such as Spikes, Rain Dance, or Toxic. A wide variety of moves can be found in that section.

The type of moves matters because without considering what type of move to use, you might end up dealing less damage than what you would want. For example, Fire Blast has more base power than Fire Punch, but Machamp would still prefer to use Fire Punch because his Special Attack stat is lower than his Attack stat. Additionally, you must also consider the defensive stats of the opposing Pokemon. For example, if you were fighting a Blissey, you wouldn't use a special move such as Draco Meteor, but rather another move such as Outrage. This is because Blissey's Special Defense is way higher than her Defense, which would make Outrage deal more damage even though Draco Meteor has a higher Base Power than Outrage.

Another very important thing to consider is STAB or same type attack bonus. When a pokemon uses a move that is the same type it is then the move receives a 1.5x boost in power. This means that packing moves that are the same type as you can increase your killing potential dramatically.

2) Competitive Basics [CMPT]



These are the aspects of the game that most pokemon players will never find out about that. When you learn these you are on your way to becoming a Pokemon Master!

2.1) Natures

Natures are an important part of building a pokemon. Each nature boosts one stat by 10% and lowers one stat by 10%. This allows pokemon to raise stats that are important to their functionality and lower useless ones. For instance a physical attacker might use and Adamant nature which boosts its attack and lowers its useless Special Attack.

Here is a chart showing all the natures and what they do:



2.2) IVs (Individual Values)

Each pokemon has 6 IVs, one for each stat, that determine how high (or low) that that stat can go. Each is a number from 0 to 31 with 31 providing the highest stats and 0 the lowest. In-game you have breed to get the IVs you want, but on Shoddy Battle or Pokemon Online you may set them to whatever you want. Most pokemon will want an IV of 31 in every stat, but in some rare cases a pokemon will want to lower their stat. For Instance, Bronzong uses a 0 speed IV and a speed lowering nature to power up Gyro Ball (an attack that is more powerful the slower you are). In some cases it is impossible to have perfect IVs in which case it is best to lower useless stats such as Special Attack on an all-physical attacker. IVs also determine the type and power of Hidden Power. If you want a specific Hidden Power you may have to lower some IVs, and the same rules apply.

2.3) EVs (Effort Values)

Effort Values are points gained through battling that increase your stats. Every time you kill a pokemon you gain a certain number of EVs (usually 1 or 2) in a certain stat (such as Attack or Speed) that will raise your stats if you accumulate enough. You may get up to 510 EVs total and up to 255 in each stat. At level 100 4 EVs will raise one stat one point. You can use EVs to your advantage to boost important stats. For instance, a good EV spread for the physical attacker I've been referencing is 252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HP. This spread raises the physical attacker's most important stats, Attack and Speed, as high as it can and then raises the HP stat with the rest to make it ever so slightly bulkier.

3) Statuses [STS]



Statuses are effects placed on your pokemon that adversely affect them in some way. There are two types of statuses: statuses and pseudo-statuses. There are 5 statuses: Poison, Burn, Paralysis, Freeze, and Sleep. These effects remain even if a pokemon is switched out of battle and you may only have one on each pokemon at a time. On the other hand, pseudo-statuses fade when a pokemon is switched out and you can have as many of these on each pokemon as you want. The 3 pseudo-statuses are confusion, infatuation, and flinch.

Here is what each status does:

Poison - There are two types of poison: regular and toxic poison. Regular poison does a steady amount of damage at the end of each turn to the afflicted pokemon. Toxic poison increases damage for each turn the afflicted pokemon is in battle. This effect makes it useful on teams that rely on indirect damage. Notable moves that cause poison are Toxic and Toxic Spikes.

Burn - Burn has two effects. Firstly, it does regular damage at the end of each turn. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it halves the attack stat of the affected pokemon. This cripples many physical attackers and can turn the tide of a battle. Notable moves that inflict burn are Fire Blast, Sacred Fire, Fire Fang, Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Lava Plume, and Will-o-Wisp.

Paralysis - Paralysis also has two effects. It quarters the target's speed stat and has a 25% chance each turn of fully paralyzing the affected pokemon and preventing them from attacking. The speed lowering effect can ruin pokemon that rely on speed such as fast sweepers. Notable moves that inflict paralysis are Body Slam, Bounce, Discharge, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Thunderpunch, Thunder Fang, and Thunder Wave.

Sleep - Sleep causes the target to be unable to move except for through the use of Sleep Talk (which chooses a random move) or Snore for 3-5 turns. In competitive battles a sleep clause is in effect allowing you to inflict sleep on only one pokemon on your opponents team. Notable moves that inflict sleep are Dark Void, Hypnosis, Rest (Inflicted on self), Sleep Powder, Spore, and Yawn.

Freeze - Freeze is a very powerful status effect but it cannot be applied directly by a move. Freeze completely immobilizes the target for as long as it is frozen. Each time you make a move while frozen you have a 20% to thaw out. You also unthaw when struck by a fire-type attack. Due to the powerful and immobilizing nature of freeze only one pokemon per team may be frozen in competitive play. Notable moves that cause freeze are Blizzard, Ice Beam, Ice Fang, and Ice Punch.

Confusion - When a pokemon is confused it has a 50% chance to hit itself with a typless 40 base power physical attack. Confusion lasts for 2-5 turns with an equal probability of each. Notable moves that cause confusion are Confuse Ray, DynamicPunch, and Outrage (inflicted on self).

Infatuation - Infatuation is a pseudo-status that can be only inflicted on pokemon of the opposite gender. It lasts as long as BOTH pokemon are on the field and causes the target to be unable to attack 50% of the time. Infatuation is inferior to confusion since Confusion can deal damage and is not limited by gender. The only move that causes infatuation is Attract.

Flinch - Flinching occurs when a pokemon is struck by a move that causes flinching before it is able to attack. If a pokemon flinches it is rendered unable to move that turn. Flinching is especially useful when combined with other statuses such as paralysis and confusion which allows the user to completely immobilize his opponent a large part of the time. Notable moves that cause flinch are Air Slash, Dark Pulse, Fake Out, Fire Fang, Ice Fang, Thunder Fang, Iron Head, Waterfall, and Zen Headbutt.

4) Items [ITMS]



Each pokemon can hold one item that can have a variety of effects on its performance. It can boost offensive capabilities or make a pokemon harder to kill. These items can greatly effect how a pokemon fills its role.

Notable items and their descriptions are as follows:

Leftovers - Likely the most ubiquitous item in the metagame, leftovers recovers 6.25% of the holders HP at the end of the turn. Leftovers are most common on defensive pokemon but can also be used on bulky sweepers or support pokemon.

Life Orb - Life Orb is a great offensive item allowing both versatility and power. Life Orb provides a 30% boost to the holders Attack and Special Attack but causes them to lose 10% of their HP each turn. Life Orb is used mainly on sweepers and Wall Breakers as it allows them to switch moves while still being powerful.

Choice Band/Choice Specs - Choice Band and Choice Specs raise the attack or special attack of the holder by 1.5x respectively, but limit them to one move each time they are out. This provides a huge power boost and does not come with the penalty of the 10% HP loss, but greatly limits versitality. Because of this, the most common pokemon to use these items are mid-game hole punchers.

Choice Scarf - Choice Scarf is similar to Choice Band and Choice Specs except instead of boosting an attacking stat it boosts speed. This makes Choice Scarf a great item for revenge killing. Holding a choice scarf pokemon are able to outspeed threats and kill them before they are able to kill you. Therefore, Choice Scarf is most commonly used on revenge killers.

Expert Belt
- Expert Belt boosts the power of super effective hits by 20% with absolutely no drawbacks. This is nice for pokemon who rely on hitting super effectively rather than using STAB attacks and do not wish to be locked in a move or receive recoil damage, but need the extra power. Expert Belt can also be used to bluff a choice item and get off a surprise attack. As such, Expert Belt is mostly seen on wall breakers or bulky attackers.

Focus Sash - Focus Sash allows a pokemon at 100% to survive an attack that would otherwise kill it with 1 HP left one time. This is nearly useless on non-lead pokemon because of the ubiquity of entry hazards, particularly stealth rock. However this item really shines in the lead position since it allows frailer leads to survive one attack and do what it needs to do. Focus Sash also is useful on pokemon utilizing the move Endeavor, since it easily allows them to lower their HP to 1 so Endeavor has the greatest effect possible. Focus Sash is most commonly seen on frail leads.

Lum Berry - Lum Berry is a one-time use item that cures the holder of any true status as well as confusion. This is useful to prevent the confusion from Outrage and gain free rests as well as preventing sleep or burn or paralysis from your oppenent. This is also helpful in the lead position since it can be used to absorb sleep or confusion often used by leads. Lum Berry is most often seen on sweepers susceptible to status and bulky leads.

Shed Shell - This item allows pokemon to switch out of trap-related abilities including Mean Look, Arena Trap, and Mean Look. This is particularly useful on pokemon susceptible to trappers like Wobbuffet and Magnezone. This item is most commonly seen on Forretress and Skarmory.

Resist Berries - There are 17 berries, one for each type, that halve the power of a super effective move used against the user of that type. These are helpful on pokemon held back by a single weakness or who want to surprise their counters. These items are most commonly seen on pokemon with a weakness to a particular move, particularly a priority move.

Each resist berry and the type it helps against:

Occa - Fire
Passho- Water
Wacan - Electric
Rindo - Grass
Yache - Ice
Chople - Fighting
Kebia - Poison
Shuca - Ground
Coba - Flying
Payapa - Psychic
Tanga - Bug
Charti - Rock
Kasib - Ghost
Haban - Dragon
Colbur - Dark
Babiri - Steel
Chilan - Normal (this works regardless of super effectiveness)

Boosting berries - These berries boost a stat 1.5x when the holder's HP goes below 25%. The most important of these are Liechi which boosts attack, Salac which boosts speed, and Petaya which boosts special attack. These are most commonly seen on sweepers utilizing substitute.

Flame Orb - This item inflicts burn on the holder when switched in. While this might seem like an odd choice it is useful in two situations. Firstly, if you trick this item to a physical attacker it cripples it, and secondly, it can activate the abilities Guts and Quick Feet. This item is most commonly used on pokemon with Trick or the ability Guts or Quick Feet.

Toxic Orb - This item inflicts toxic poison on the holder when switched in. Like Burn Orb this has very limited use. The main use of this item is on Breloom since poison heals him 12.5% a turn due to poison heal. This can also be used on hit and run Guts and Quick Feet users because in the first turn it does less damage than burn. This item is most commonly seen on Breloom and pokemon with the ability Guts or Quick Feet.

Balloon - Pokemon holding this item are immune to Ground type attacks until they are hit by any attack at which point the balloon will "pop" and they become once again susceptible to Earthquake and the like. This is useful on Pokemon who are weak to ground moves, because it turns a weakness into a temporary immunity! Heatran and Excadrill are frequently seen with this item for instance.

5) Moves [MVES]



Moves are how your pokemon do everything and are the most important aspect of a pokemon. Each pokemon can only have 4 moves and which ones you choose is very important.

5.1) Attacking moves

Attacking Moves are split up into two types: physical attacks and special attacks. As stated before physical attacks use the attacker's attack stat and target the defender's defense stat whereas special attacks use the attacker's special attack stat and target the defender's special defense stat. It is a good idea to use moves that utilize your higher attacking stat. If you have two high attack stats then you can utilize a mixed set and beat both physical and special walls. When choosing attacks its is important to pick moves that compliment each other well hitting a variety of different targets and also to use STAB in most cases, because it is most likely your most powerful option.

Competitive moves by type:

Normal

Physical
Return
Extremespeed
Fake-Out
Quick Attack

Special
Tri-Attack

Fighting

Physical
Close Combat
DynamicPunch
Cross Chop
Brick Break
High Jump Kick
Drain Punch
SuperPower
Mach Punch

Special
Focus Blast
Aura Sphere
Vacuum Wave


Psychic

Physical
Zen Headbutt

Special
Psychic
Psycho Shock

Ghost

Physical
Shadow Sneak
Shadow Claw
Shadow Punch

Special
Shadow Ball

Dark

Physical
Crunch
Bite
Sucker Punch
Pursuit

Special
Dark Pulse

Bug

Physical
X-Scissor
Bug Bite
U-turn

Special
Bug Buzz
Signal Beam

Fire

Physical
Fire Fang
FirePunch
Flare Blitz

Special
Fire Blast
Flamethrower
Lava Plume

Water

Physical
Waterfall
Aqua Tail
Aqua Jet

Special
Surf
Hydro Pump
Boil Over

Grass

Physical
Leaf Blade

Special
Grass Knot
Energy Ball
Leaf Storm

Flying

Physical
Drill Peck
Brave Bird

Special
Air Slash

Electric

Physical
ThunderPunch
Thunder Fang

Special
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Volt Change

Ground

Physical
Earthquake
Level Ground

Special
Earth Power

Ice

Physical
IcePunch
Ice Fang
Icicle Drop
Ice Shard

Special
Ice Beam
Blizzard

Rock

Physical
Stone Edge
Rock Slide

Special
Ancient Power
Power Gem

Steel

Physical
Bullet Punch
Iron Head
Gyro Ball

Special
Flash Cannon

Poison

Physical
Cross Poison
Poison Jab

Special
Sludge Bomb

Dragon

Physical
Outrage
Dragon Claw

Special
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse

Special note: Hidden Power is a 70 (or lower) base power special move which can be any type so is useful for type coverage.

5.2) Supporting moves

Supporting moves are moves that do not do direct damage, but are very useful nonetheless. Entry Hazards fall into this category as well as moves that inflict status only. These are often used on stall teams to do indirect damage, but are used on any type of team. Healing moves also fall into this category. Another type of support move is any move that raises a stat, such as Swords Dance.

Competitive Supporting moves:

Stat up

Swords Dance
Nasty Plot
Dragon Dance
Agility
Rock Polish
Amnesia
Iron Defense
Calm Mind
Bulk Up
Curse
Butterfly Dance
Tail Glow
Shell Break
Claw Sharpen
Cheer Up

Status
Will-o-Wisp
Toxic
Thunder Wave
Leech Seed
Sleep Powder
Spore
Yawn
Hypnosis
Dark Void
Fling

Healing moves
Rest
Wish
Softboiled
Recover
Roost
Moonlight
Synthesis
Lunar Dance
Healing Wish
Aromatherapy
Refresh
Heal Bell
Psycho Shift

Entry Hazards
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Toxic Spikes

Miscellaneous
Perish Song
Taunt
Baton Pass
Substitute
Torment
Trick
Encore
Trick Room
Sunny Day
Rain Dance
Reflect
Light Screen
Protect
Mean Look

5.3) Priority

Priority determines which pokemon moves first. The pokemon using the move with higher priority will always move first. If both pokemon use moves of the same priority the pokemon with higher speed will attack first.

Move Priority:

+7 Pursuit when opposing pokemon Switches
+6 Switching
+5 Helping Hand
+4 Magic Coat, Snatch
+3 Detect, Endure, Follow Me, Protect
+2 Feint
+1 Aqua Jet, Bide, Bullet Punch, Extremespeed, Fake Out, Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Quick Attack, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave
±0 Assist, Me First, Metronome, Mirror Move, Sleep Talk, Everything else
-1 Vital Throw
-2 Focus Punch
-3 Avalanche, Revenge
-4 Counter, Mirror Coat
-5 Roar, Whirlwind, Dragon Tail
-6 Trick Room

6) Abilities [ABLT]



Abilities are passive traits that each pokemon have. They do any number of things from absorbing fire attacks (flash fire) to lowering your opponents attack (Intimidate). These are often very helpful and pokemon defining but can also be completely useless. A list of abilites can be found on serebii.net

7) Tiers [TRS]



Tiers are the method by which pokemon are divided based on ability. There are 6 tiers which are: Ubers, OverUsed (OU), BorderLine (BL), UnderUsed (UU), NeverUsed (NU), and Little Cup (LC). OU is the standard tier to play in, but there are metagames for every other tier except BL.

A brief description of each metagame:

Ubers - A fast-paced metagame dominated by offense, however stall teams are also very viable. You can use any pokemon in this tier leading to the use of powerful legends.

OverUsed - The standard tier, Bulky Offense is the most common team type, but almost anything is viable. This is the most played tier of them all.

UnderUsed - A very balanced a decentralized tier where every team type flourishes. This is for people who enjoy using less common pokemon.

NeverUsed - An offensive metagame with a few very potent threats. This tier is fairly centralized.

Little Cup - A tier HEAVILY based on speed that is VERY offensively dominated. This is for people who enjoy an extremely fast-paced metagame.

You can find out about how pokemon are divided into tiers here

8) Types of Pokemon [PKMN]



8.1)Offensive

8.1.1)Sweepers

Sweepers are pokemon that are used to finish off your opponents weakened team. They generally use a stat-up move to setup and then proceed to wreak havoc.

A good example of a sweeper is Swords Dance Lucario:


Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant / Inner Focus
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~Swords Dance
~Close Combat
~ExtremeSpeed
~Crunch / Ice Punch / Stone Edge

This sets up Swords Dance on a resisted attack and then *****. ExtremeSpeed kills most things faster than it and Close Combat will absolutely wreck anything slower. Crunch, Ice Punch, and Stone Edge are for things that resist Close Combat and/or ExtremeSpeed such as Gliscor and Rotom-A.

A good example of a UU sweeper is Swellow:


Swellow @ Toxic Orb
Jolly / Guts
252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
~Facade
~Brave Bird
~U-turn
~Protect / Quick Attack / Pursuit

With Toxic Orb boosting both Guts and Facade, Swellow can hit very hard. Facade and Brave Bird both get STAB, while U-turn lets Swellow deal some damage and scout your opponent's team. Protect activates Toxic Orb, Quick Attack handles other priority Pokemon, and Pursuit hits Ghost-type Pokemon.

8.1.2) Mixed Attackers/Wall-Breakers

Mixed Attackers and Wall-Breakers are designed to be used midgame to punch holes in your opponents team. By attacking from both sides of the physical/special spectrum a Mixed attacker can defeat both physical and special walls and so can defeat many pokemon and open the way for sweepers.

A good example of a mixed attacker is New Mixmence:


Salamence @ Life Orb
Naive / Intimidate
16 Atk / 240 SAtk / 252 Spe
~Draco Meteor
~Fire Blast / Flamethrower
~Earthquake
~Outrage / Dragon Claw

New Mixmence is very hard to counter since it hits so hard both physically and specially. Dragon/Ground/Fire gives perfect coverage and Outrage/Draco Meteor hit almost everything incredibly hard. This set usually does a huge amount of damage to an opposing team and opens you up for a sweep.

A good example of a UU attacker is Mixed Blaziken:


Blaziken @ Life Orb
Naive / Blaze
4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Superpower
~Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
~Vacuum Wave / Stone Edge

Blaziken gains superb coverage with his moves. Fire Blast hits hard, while Superpower hits Rock-types and Chansey. Hidden Power is to hit Water-type Pokemon like Milotic, while Vacuum Wave can finish weakened Pokemon. Stone Edge can hit Altaria and Moltres.

8.1.3) All-out attackers

These are pokemon who use raw power to run throw a team. They usually use only one kind of attack and no boosting move, but pack a considerable punch.

A good example of an all-out attacker is Lead Machamp:


Machamp @ Lum Berry
Adamant / No Guard
240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SDef / 4 Spe
~DynamicPunch
~Ice Punch
~Bullet Punch
~Payback

This Machamp uses sheer power and a good combination of attacks to power through other leads. With Lum Berry it can avoid sleep or burn and it does huge amounts of damage to almost every pokemon in the game.

A good example of a UU all-out attacker is Life Orb Hitmonlee:

Hitmonlee @ Life Orb
Adamant / Limber
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~Close Combat
~Mach Punch
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge / Sucker Punch

Close Combat rips through whatever doesn't resist it, while Mach Punch finishes off weakened Pokemon. Earthquake hits Poison-types, while Stone Edge hits Flying-types. Sucker Punch can also be used for more priority.

8.1.3) Revenge Killers

Revenge Killers are pokemon that use speed and often a Choice Scarf or priority to switch in after a pokemon has been killed and stop a sweep of an enemy pokemon. With a Choice Scarf attached they are often able to outspped even pokemon who have boosted their speed and kill them.

A good example of a revenge killer is Choice Scarf Jirachi:


Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Jolly / Serene Grace
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~Iron Head
~Fire Punch
~ThunderPunch
~Ice Punch

This Jirachi uses great speed, attack, and coverage to revenge kill a number of common threats. It is faster than a +1 Speed Gyara meaning it can kill it with ThunderPunch and at the very worst ties with a +1 Salamence which it can kill with IcePunch. Jirachi Also can revenge kill any Tyranitar with a super-effective STAB Iron Head. Jirachi can revenge kill many things especially with help from Iron Head Flinches.

A good example of a UU revenge killer is Choice Scarf Rotom:


Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Timid / Levitate
252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
~Thunderbolt
~Shadow Ball
~Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
~Trick

Thunderbolt hits Flying- and Water-types hard, while Shadow Ball revenge kills weaker Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon. Hidden Power Fighting can hit Steels and Normal-type Pokemon, while Hidden Power Grass hits Quagsire and Lanturn along with Donphan. Trick cripples the opposing Pokemon by giving it Rotom's Choice Scarf.

8.2) Defensive Pokemon

8.2.1) Walls

Walls are pokemon that rely on its defense stats to sponge hits and stop offensive pokemon cold in their tracks. These pokemon usually focus on one defense stat, but there are also Mixed Walls.

A good example of a wall is WishBliss:


Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold / Natural Cure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
~Wish
~Protect
~Thunder Wave / Toxic
~Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Seismic Toss

Blissey is the best special wall in the game. With its gargantuan HP and large SDef stat it is practically immune to 99% of special attacks. This set allows Blissey to sponge special attacks while also taking some physical hits and heal her team up with Wish.

A good example of a UU wall is Wish Chansey:


Chansey @ Leftovers
Calm / Natural Cure
252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
~Wish
~Protect
~Seismic Toss
~Toxic / Thunder Wave

Chansey is like her OU counterpart Blissey, just a bit less bulky. It follows the same procedure as her OU version: spongue special attacks and heal her team with Wish.

8.2.2) Tanks

Tanks are a mix between walls and attackers. Walls have high HP and (Special) Defense Stats, but can also deal some damage. Because tanks try to focus on two things at once they nearly always focus on one side of the physical/special spectrum.

A good example of a tank is Tank Metagross:


Metagross @ Leftovers
Impish / Clear Body
252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
~Meteor Mash
~Earthquake
~Stealth Rock / Light Screen
~Explosion

This set focuses on improving Metagross' already good HP and defense stats and making Metagross very hard to take down. However, Metagross still has an amazing attack stat so it is able to hit very hard with Meteor Mash and Earthquake. Stealth Rock and Light Screen help support Metagross' team.

A good example of a UU tank is Registeel:


Registeel @ Leftovers
Careful / Clear Body
252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SDef
~Stealth Rock
~Thunder Wave
~Earthquake / Seismic Toss
~Iron Head / Shadow Claw / Explosion

Registeel has amazing defenses for the UU tier, and this set allows it to abuse them. Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave will both help your team, while Registeel can retaliate with any two of the attacks.

8.3) Support Pokemon

8.3.1) (Toxic) Spikers

Spikers goal is to set up entry hazards on the opponents sides. These punish switching and can do a lot of residual damage, wearing down your opponent. They are often very defensive so they can take hits and continue to set up hazards. They are mostly found on stall teams which benefit the most from entry hazards.

A good example of a Spiker is Spiker Skarm:


Skarmory @ Shed Shell / Leftovers
Keen Eye / Impish
252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
~Brave Bird
~Roost
~Whirlwind
~Spikes

Skarmory is extremely bulky and so can set up many layers of spikes while roosting off any damage taken. After the spikes have been set up skarmory can Whirlwind pokemon into them so they take more damage or use Brave Bird to do a decent amount of direct damage.

A good example of a Toxic Spiker is lead Roserade:


Roserade @ Focus Sash
Timid / Natural Cure
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
~Sleep Powder
~Toxic Spikes
~Leaf Storm
~Hidden Power: Fire

Roserade utilizes a Focus Sash in the lead position to survive a hit and then put the opposing lead to sleep. This gives it free turns to set up 1 or 2 layers of Toxic Spikes. Leaf Storm is for STAB and Hidden Power: Fire hits a lot of things that resist Leaf Storm super effectively.

A good example of a UU Spiker is Cloyster:


Cloyster @ Life Orb
Adamant / Skill Link
160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SDef
~Ice Shard
~Rock Blast
~Explosion / Rapid Spin
~Spikes

Ice Shard finishes off weakened Pokemon while Rock Blast is Cloyster's strongest attack to hit with. Explosion finishes off Cloyster with a bang, while Rapid Spin removes entry hazards. Spikes is the key point, as Cloyster has the Defense to lay down several layers.

A good example of a UU Toxic Spiker is Drapion:


Drapion @ Leftovers
Impish / Battle Armor
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
~Taunt
~Toxic Spikes
~Crunch
~Knock Off / Whirlwind

Drapion can tank several hits and lay down Toxic Spikes as it does so. Taunt prevents opposing Pokemon from doing the same and setting up, while Crunch his opponents. Knock Off debilitates opponents while Whirlwind racks up more entry hazard damage.

8.3.2)Rapid Spinners

Rapid Spinners make use of the move Rapid Spin (shocking I know) to clear their side of entry hazards. This can be very helpful in allowing Stealth Rock weak pokemon to switch in better and makes fighting stall much easier. However, since Rapid Spin is a normal type move, ghost types can block it which makes a ghost-type spin-blocker mandatory on every team that relies on entry hazards.

A good example of a Rapid Spinner is Rapid Spinner Starmie:


Starmie @ Leftovers
Timid / Natural Cure
136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe
~Rapid Spin
~Recover
~Thunderbolt
~Surf

Starmie fills the role of Rapid Spinner very well as it is both fast and bulky. Starmie does its main job of spinning away hazards well, but can also counter Dragon Dance Gyarados, since it is not killed by a +1 Attack Life Orb Stone Edge. Starmie is good to use if you have an offensive team that has problems with entry hazards.

A good example of a UU Rapid Spinner is Hitmontop:


Hitmontop @ Leftovers
Adamant / Intimidate
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
~Rapid Spin
~Foresight
~Close Combat
~Sucker Punch / Stone Edge / Rest

Rapid Spin along with Foresight ensures that Hitmontop gets off a Rapid Spin, while Close Combat hits opposing Pokemon hard. Sucker Punch and Stone Edge hit Pokemon that resist Fighting, while Rest prolongs Hitmontop's life.

8.3.3) (P)Hazers

Hazers are pokemon that use the move haze to remove any stat boosts from the enemy pokemon. This is useful to prevent being overwhelmed by a pokemon that boosts its stats, but Haze is a fairly uncommon move. Phazers on the other hand, make use of the move Whirlwind or Roar to force a switch which also gets rid of boosts. Phazers are much more common and useful than Hazers in competitive play.

A good example of a both an OU and UU Hazer is Physical wall Weezing:


Weezing @ Leftovers
Bold / Levitate
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
~Fire Blast / Flamethrower
~Thunderbolt
~Haze
~Pain Split

This Weezing is able to stop many UU boosting pokemon such as Curse Registeel and Bulk Up Hitmontop with Haze. It has some healing in Pain Split and then can do damage to a variety of threats with a fire move and Thunderbolt.

A good example of a Phazer is Defensive Wall Hippowdon:


Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Bold / Sand Stream
252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SDef
~Earthquake
~Slack Off
~Stealth Rock
~Roar

Hippowdon has massive defense and HP stats which make it a great wall in a tier filled with physical attackers. Stealth Rock allows Hippowdon to support its team and Slack Off is to heal off damage. Earthquake is the mandatory STAB attack, but the real crux of this set is Roar. First of all it allows Hippowdon to continually force switches racking up entry hazards. Second of all it allows Hippowdon to get rid of troublesome boosters such as Swords Dance Scizor which could otherwise do a lot of damage to Hippowdon's team.

A good example of a UU Phazer is Physical Tank Hariyama:


Hariyama @ Leftovers
Impish / Thick Fat
80 HP / 172 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe
~Force Palm
~Stone Edge / Ice Punch
~Whirlwind
~Knock Off / Payback

Force Palm hits opponents mainly with a chance to paralyze, while Stone Edge and Ice Punch both hit Flying-type Pokemon. Whirlwind is a useful move, seeing as it can rack up more entry hazard damage, while Knock Off cripples the opponent's team even more. Payback also hits Ghost-type Pokemon that are immune to Force Palm.

8.3.4)Clerics/Healers

Clerics are pokemon that heal their team of status conditions through the move Heal Bell or Aromatherapy. This is useful for stall teams so they do not get crippled by sleep or freeze or worn away by Toxic poison. Healers heal their team through the use of the move Wish, which allows the user to pass healing to other pokemon. This is helpful to heal pokemon who cannot heal themselves and keep sweepers alive.

A good example of a Cleric/Healer is supporting Umbreon:


Umbreon @ Leftovers
Careful / Synchronize
252 HP / 92 SDef / 164 Spe
~Heal Bell
~Wish
~Toxic / Yawn
~Payback

Supporting Umbreon does a great job of healing up his team of both status and health with Heal Bell and Wish respectively. The status move makes it so Umbreon is not completely set-up on, and Payback is for STAB and so Umbreon does not completely lose to Taunt.

A good example of a UU Cleric/Healer is Support Altaria:


Altaria @ Leftovers
Careful / Natural Cure
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
~Dragon Claw
~Roost
~Heal Bell
~Perish Song / Whirlwind / Haze

Dragon Claw allows Altaria to attack, while Roost prolongs Altaria's health. Heal Bell rids your team of status, while the last moveslot is to deter setup sweepers, either by forcing them out or removing their stat boosts.

8.3.5) Baton Passers

Baton Passers make use of the move Baton Pass to pass stat boosts to a sweeper who can make use of them. Baton Pass passes stat boosts/drops and Substitute most notably which gives the recipient greater security and ability to sweep.

A good example of a Baton Passer is Baton Pass Ninjask:


Ninjask @ Leftovers
Jolly / Speed Boost
176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
~Substitute
~Swords Dance
~Baton Pass
~X-Scissor

Ninjasks ability, Speed Boost, raises his speed one stage each turn which makes it possible for him to pass speed as well as attack (with Swords Dance) to the proper receiver. Substitute can give Ninjask a free turn and X-scissor can do some decent damage after a Swords Dance or two.

A good example of a UU Baton Passer is Baton Pass Ambipom:


Ambipom @ Lum Berry
Jolly / Technician
252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
~Agility
~Nasty Plot
~Baton Pass
~Taunt

Ambipom is one of the few Pokemon that can Baton Pass Nasty Plot, and is one of the more rare Pokemon that can Baton Pass both Agility and Nasty Plot. Taunt prevents opposing Pokemon from Whirlwinding away Ambipom's boosts or using Haze to remove them.

8.3.6) Miscellaneous Supporters

Any pokemon that relies on support moves, but does not fall into one of the categories above is a miscellaneous supporter. This category includes Dual-Screeners as well as users of Imprison, Memento, Lunar Dance, or Healing Wish.

A good example of a Miscellaneous Supporter is Lunar Dance Cresselia:


Cresselia @ Light Clay
Bold / Levitate
252 HP / 148 Def / 40 SDef / 68 Spe
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Lunar Dance
~Thunder Wave / Ice Beam / Psychic

Cresselia can be a great supporting Pokemon for a sweep, as Lunar Dance completely heals the next Pokemon that comes in. Behind both Reflect and Light Screen, opposing teams will have difficulty beating your Pokemon.

A good example of a UU Miscellaneous Supporter is Dual Screen Uxie:


Uxie @ Light Clay
Impish / Levitate
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Memento
~Stealth Rock / Yawn / U-turn

This Uxie uses a combination of dual screens and Memento to give a sweeper a lot of time to set up with its increased defenses. The last slot enables Uxie to support its team in some way.

9) Types of teams [TMS]



There are many types of teams that you can use to fit your playstyle. These are the most common.

9.1) Balanced

Balanced teams use a combination of Walls and Sweepers to combat other teams. Often they use a format such as Lead/Physical Sweeper/Special Sweeper/Physical Wall/Special Wall/Mixed Attacker though this is tweakable.

A good balanced team can be found here. It has a good mix of attackers, which kill the oppositions team, and walls which are able to take some hits.

9.2) Stall

Stall teams are designed to wear down the opponents teams through indirect damage such as entry hazards and Toxic. They generally have a wide-range of walls and supporting pokemon that can take a hit and are very hard to take down.

9.2.1) Full stall

Full stall uses 6 extremely bulky pokemon and has almost no semblance of offense. It is the most defensive team type and battles tend to take a long time.

A good Full Stall team can be found here. It is an uber stall team that covers nearly every threat and has a great deal of bulk to withstand hits.

9.2.2) Semi-stall


Semi-stall is similar to full stall, but it relies less on indirect damage and has more offensive power.

A good Semi-stall team can be found here. It is a very bulky team, but it has a couple of pokemon that can boost up and sweep a team with proper set-up.

9.3) Offense

Offensive teams rely on pure power to break through an opponents defense and kill all of their pokemon.

9.3.1) Heavy offense

Heavy Offense sacrifices any sort of bulk for pure power. Each of its 6 pokemon can often sweep at a moments notice, and it is very hard to contain the power of a Heavy Offense team.

A good Heavy Offense team can be found here. It is a very fast team that has a great deal of offensive power, but can not take very many hits.

9.3.2) Bulky offense

Bulky Offense has a bit less power than Heavy Offense teams, but makes up for it in bulk. These teams generally have pokemon that have high attack and defense stats, but not as high as heavy offense or stall teams. It takes traits from each team type and combines them together.

A good Bulky Offense team can be found here. It is mostly an offensive team, but it has some bulk which allows it to take some hits and keep on fighting.

9.4) Rain Dance / Sunny Day

Rain Dance and Sunny Day teams rely on weather conditions to power up its team members. Usually this functions by using weather effects to activate abilities such as Swift Swim and Chlorophyll to facilitate the sweeping of specific pokemon.

A good Sunny Day team can be found here. This team takes advantage of sun to facilitate a sweep and also to power up fire moves and is a powerful offensive team.

9.5) Sandstorm

Sandstorm teams rely on the weather condition to provide some steady damage as well as boost the SDef of rock types. These are usually defensive or bulky offense teams since Sandstorm provides defensive bonuses. These teams always use Hippowdon, Hippotas (in lower tiers), or Tyranitar as they set up sandstorm automatically.

A good Sandstorm team can be found here. 4 of the 6 pokemon are immune to the Sandstorm Tyranitar sets up and 2 of them directly benefit from it. Its also a very bulky team that appreciates the extra damage caused by the sandstorm.

9.6) Hail

Hail teams use the damage and 100% accurate Blizzard brought by Hail to their advantage as well as the healing or evasion boosts that are given to some pokemon in hail through their abilities. Hail teams always have Abomasnowd or Snover (in lower tiers) to set up hail with their ability.

A good Hail team can be found here. This team uses hail to its advantage to stall out opponents with its secondary damage. It is a specialized stall team and does its job quite well.

9.7) Trick Room

Trick Room teams use the move Trick Room to make slower pokemon move first. This allows very powerful but slow pokemon to be fast and overpower faster teams.

A good Trick Room team can be found here. This team makes use of Trick Room to power up slower sweepers and destroy teams that rely on speed.

10) Get out there! [GTOTR]



Using this knowledge you can become a pokemon master, but to do that you need battling experience! A great way to battle on the computer without the hastle of building teams is using a simulator. The best two are Shoddy Battle and Pokemon Online.

Good Luck and happy battling!

Credits

supermarth64 provided the format and wrote the Basics section and provided the UU pokemon examples!
Firus, Supermarth64, and Spire VII proofread.
 

Wave⁂

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Machamp isn't an all-out attacker, he's just an attacker. CBTar is a better example.
 

Wave⁂

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CBTar hits stuff hard, Champ just throws out Dynamicpunches and hopes for confusion hax.

Add Gravity and Baton Pass to the list at the bottom of team styles.
 

Riddle

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The tiers header REFUSES to work. The BBcode is completely correct it just won't work =/.

I will fix the rules thread link though. Thanks =D

And machamp is an all-out attacker even if it doesnt hit quite as hard as Tyranitar.

I also don't feel like Gravity or Baton Pass are strategies that can get you very far, therefore I'd rather not teach them to new battlers.
 

Wave⁂

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It happened to my Stockpile thread once, there's something weird that happens when you put too much vB code in a post or something.

Speaking of the Stockpile... needs some work.
 

Deathfox30

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You definitely could've chose better pokemon for 9.1 - 9.3.6 but nice guide overall.
 

Wave⁂

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Deathfox probably only plays OU and doesn't understand the concept of "UU"

Alternatively, Deathfox has no idea what the tiers are
 

Riddle

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Yeah, what other pokemon should I have picked?

Thanks for the compliment though, I worked hard on this =D
 

Wave⁂

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Maybe he was talking about Chansey. Well, probably not, but I don't like Chansey and Blissey being right next to each other.
 

Deathfox30

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Deathfox probably only plays OU and doesn't understand the concept of "UU"

Alternatively, Deathfox has no idea what the tiers are
LOL Your right on the money. Except, I'm pro. I can beat my 11 year old cousin with my Sceptile/Blaziken combo. Tiers? Pssh, why seperate Pokemon? It's not like it's unfair to have something like Altaria in the same Meta Game as Salamence. It wouldn't discourage using Altaria because Salamence outclasses it as a sweeper and has intimidate to come in on Physical threats and is generally more threatening than Altaria. -.- I know what tiers are. Also, I primarily play UU and am very good at it. I didn't start playing Pokemon yesterday. I have Shoddy, I use EV'd Pokemon, blah blah blah. It's just, a lot of the better Pokemon were left out. Like Gyarados and Skarmory for Phazers. Also, you have two special walls... Why not put like Blissey and Gyarados/Skarmory/Forretress/Tangrowth/Arcanie, etc Celebi and Miltank were both left out of Clerics. Smeargle is better than Ambipom IMO. But if you want to keep it one OU and one UU/NU you could do Loppunny. You did a good job on the guide, I'm just saying there were better...er... less obvious examples. Like Gyarados as a Physical wall. People new to competitive Pokemon may not realize his viability as a wall and might think he's only good as a sweeper. Mismagius too. Taunt, Willow Wisp, Pain Split, Shadowball Mismagius is very, very good. I realize shes walled by normal and steel types, but she can taunt and burn things like Registeel, Chansey, Clefable (I know, magic guard but it might have Cute Charm), etc But yeah, you did a really good job, it's just I like to use Pokemon who are seemingly not viable and unexpected. Like Gyarados and Cresselia for stall or Cele/tran and not boring Skarm/Bliss all the time. :3 I know I said Skarmory should be in Phazers, but thats because its arguably the best. I guess what I'm saying is more examples might be better. Including the best Pokemon and ones that you might not think can fit the position. I'm NOT saying this is a bad guide or anything. I know you worked hard on it and you did a great job, it's just a small suggestion. <3 Wave, we should battle UU sometime, maybe I'll learn a few things. :D
 

Wave⁂

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Oh god this is hilarious.
Except, I'm pro.
You make a living off of playing Pokémon? Lucky.
I can beat my 11 year old cousin with my Sceptile/Blaziken combo.
I can beat my cat at Smash.
Tiers? Pssh, why seperate Pokemon?
Because not every Pokémon is used the exact same amount as every other Pokémon.
It's not like it's unfair to have something like Altaria in the same Meta Game as Salamence.
It's unfair to Altaria. No one would use it, and then it would drop down a tier.
It wouldn't discourage using Altaria because Salamence outclasses it as a sweeper and has intimidate to come in on Physical threats and is generally more threatening than Altaria.
YEAH IT WOULD DERP DERP DERP
-.- I know what tiers are.
It seems like you don't realize that tiers are decided by usage frequency.
It's just, a lot of the better Pokemon were left out. Like Gyarados and Skarmory for Phazers. Also, you have two special walls... Why not put like Blissey and Gyarados/Skarmory/Forretress/Tangrowth/Arcanie, etc Celebi and Miltank were both left out of Clerics. *snip*
YOU'RE RIGHT LET'S ADD EVERY SINGLE ****ING POKEMON TO THE GUIDE
But yeah, you did a really good job, it's just I like to use Pokemon who are seemingly not viable and unexpected. Like Gyarados and Cresselia for stall or Cele/tran and not boring Skarm/Bliss all the time. :3
For the record, about a third of all Gyarados are defensive variants, and CeleTran is a really old combination.
 

Deathfox30

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I've been trying to beat my cat for years, but thats irrelevant.

They're not determined solely by usage, but yes, I know.

**** yes! All of them. Except Wigglytuff. >.>

I can pretty much guarantee thats not true. Very few "noobs" use defensive variants. Why? http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gyarados LOL furst set on smogonz da bess. If you go on the ladder, you won't see any defensive Gyarados until like 1450+ unless it's on a horrible team that is just doesn't fit in to... All combos are old. >.> Pokemon is like ancient. Does this mean Skarm/Bliss and Cele/tran are bad? Theres this brand of Ice Cream called Edy's/Dreyer's, it's old. Does that make it bad?! HMMM?! I guarantee 90% of all Gyarados aren't defensive. I guarantee 90% aren't even EV'd because they're on DS games and the people don't know how to EV train or just don't bother. gg. If you want, I will devote the rest of my life to finding every shoddy team and DS game and make a list of what type of Gyarados they have.

I like your sig, btw. <3
 

Wave⁂

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I can pretty much guarantee thats not true. Very few "noobs" use defensive variants. Why? http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gyarados LOL furst set on smogonz da bess. If you go on the ladder, you won't see any defensive Gyarados until like 1450+ unless it's on a horrible team that is just doesn't fit in to...
| Gyarados | HP EV | None | 44.1 |
| Gyarados | HP EV | High (150-200) | 32.0 |
| Gyarados | HP EV | Other (5) | < 8.4 |

Pokemon is like ancient. Does this mean Skarm/Bliss and Cele/tran are bad?
SkarmBliss has been good since three forevers ago. It loses to lots of stuff, but it's still a solid combination. CeleTran is no longer great because it has lost its anti-metagame value. They still mesh well, but it's not as great as it once was.
 

Riddle

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Sorry, I'll add every pokemon to the OP (except Wigglytuff)

If I start today I might finish this year.
 

Deathfox30

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| 222 | Wynaut | 17 | 0.05 | If people decide to just stop using Kyogre, Smogon won't make it OU. >.> It's not 100% usage determined.

I'm guessing thats OLD data from Smogon. I'd say 70% of people who play or have played Pokemon don't know what Smogon or Pokemon Online is. If we want to talk about how much it's used competitively, then it's clearly underused for how good it is. That bulky DD Gyara probably makes up a pretty good chunk of that 32%.

I realize Skarm/Bliss and Cele/tran are old and predictable. Easy to counter too. That doesn't really mean they're bad because their old.

Riddle, I propose we work together on adding all of the Pokemon (with sexy sprites...maybe something moving and glittery) and collecting data on Gyarados. I think if we do each individually, we'll be able to get all the Pokemon in the OP in about 6 months. Then we can spend a couple years on Gyarados. Sound good?

Guys, I'm not trying to be rude. My only real issue was just Blissey and Chansey... why have two special walls? The other things were because if I'm new to Pokemon and I read about walls, I might think only HP and Defenses matter. I wouldn't take into account typing and abilities. I guess what I'm saying is, maybe add something like Blissey to special wall. Then add a less obvious wall like Gyarados or something.

Tery, if it IS determined 100% on usage, which I'm pretty sure it's not, I apologize. I just disagree with only basing it on that and not factoring in it's impact in whatever tier. I'm not familiar with HOW Smogon determines tiering, but I'm guessing they base it on usage, member's opinions, and testing within that tier prior to determining what tier it is. Obviously they don't just put Pokemon into a tier because it will be good in that tier, but because it's broken in the tiers below it. If they based it all on usage something like a giant increase in Umbreon in OU might happen. Then Gengar sees a significant drop in usage, because Umbreon can come in and Pursuit without needing to worry too much about Focus Blast due to it's good special defense and the move's bad accuracy. Are they going to make Gengar UU/BL? Obviousaly that example was horrible and would never happen, but you get the general idea. I get that Pokemon is about the new sets and combos being made, new strategies, and Pokemon seeing a lot and little usage and people will probably be using the best Pokemon more because it does well against the rest of the meta game, but other things need to be taken into consideration also.

Smogon is a good community and I'm sure they have a good process for determining tiers, since Kyogre isn't OU or anything really stupid like that.
 

Deathfox30

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I know, but I'd think they would use more than just usage. It's a good system, but it could be better, IMO. Especially since few good battlers use NU and theres no NU ladder...
 

Deathfox30

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I don't think Smogon takes CAP into consideration with usage statistics, though it is ran by Smogon so I could be wrong.

I've never cared to use PO, but from what other people have told me it's mostly full of really bad people...
 

UltiMario

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They're not determined solely by usage, but yes, I know.
To Clarify, yes, they're by usage, except for Ubers and BL, discussions are made for ban tiers.

Very few "noobs" use defensive variants. Why? http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gyarados LOL furst set on smogonz da bess.
Some smogon sets are ancient or their order is ignored (for the longest time CM Jirachi sets were higher up than Choice Scarf), recent stats have shown that offensive variants are going down and bulky ones are going up.

If you go on the ladder, you won't see any defensive Gyarados until like 1450+ unless it's on a horrible team that is just doesn't fit in to...
More like 1100+ lol

I guarantee 90% aren't even EV'd because they're on DS games and the people don't know how to EV train or just don't bother. gg. If you want, I will devote the rest of my life to finding every shoddy team and DS game and make a list of what type of Gyarados they have.
DS games are factored into Shoddy stats BTW

| 222 | Wynaut | 17 | 0.05 | If people decide to just stop using Kyogre, Smogon won't make it OU. >.> It's not 100% usage determined.
Again, Wynaut is in a ban tier, he was banned to there by discussion, not usage.
There's always been some talk with unbanning him, though.
I'm guessing thats OLD data from Smogon. I'd say 70% of people who play or have played Pokemon don't know what Smogon or Pokemon Online is.
Not sure what you mean there, but if you mean the Wyanaut, you DO have old data.
| 300 | Wynaut | 4 | 0.01 |
If you mean the Gyarados, no, that's the newest usage data.

Riddle, I propose we work together on adding all of the Pokemon (with sexy sprites...maybe something moving and glittery) and collecting data on Gyarados. I think if we do each individually, we'll be able to get all the Pokemon in the OP in about 6 months. Then we can spend a couple years on Gyarados. Sound good?
Considering sigging this.

Guys, I'm not trying to be rude. My only real issue was just Blissey and Chansey... why have two special walls? The other things were because if I'm new to Pokemon and I read about walls, I might think only HP and Defenses matter. I wouldn't take into account typing and abilities. I guess what I'm saying is, maybe add something like Blissey to special wall. Then add a less obvious wall like Gyarados or something.
This guide is telling you that more than HP and Defenses matter.

Tery, if it IS determined 100% on usage, which I'm pretty sure it's not, I apologize. I just disagree with only basing it on that and not factoring in it's impact in whatever tier. I'm not familiar with HOW Smogon determines tiering, but I'm guessing they base it on usage, member's opinions, and testing within that tier prior to determining what tier it is.
Said earlier, it's 100% usage except for ban tiers, which are discussion.
If they based it all on usage something like a giant increase in Umbreon in OU might happen. Then Gengar sees a significant drop in usage, because Umbreon can come in and Pursuit without needing to worry too much about Focus Blast due to it's good special defense and the move's bad accuracy. Are they going to make Gengar UU/BL?
Checked Umbreon's move usage, Pursuit isn't even on there. Also, Umbreon is the last of Gengar's Concern, he can probably 2HKO him with Focus Blast and won't be 2HKO'd by such a weak Pursuit. Gengar already has buttloads of problems with ScarfTar and the like so lol, bad example.

Obviousaly that example was horrible and would never happen
Yep.
I get that Pokemon is about the new sets and combos being made, new strategies, and Pokemon seeing a lot and little usage and people will probably be using the best Pokemon more because it does well against the rest of the meta game, but other things need to be taken into consideration also.
Like?

Smogon is a good community and I'm sure they have a good process for determining tiers, since Kyogre isn't OU or anything really stupid like that.
That's because it's the most used Pokemon in Ubers.
| 1 | Kyogre | 15979 | 52.50 |

I don't think Smogon takes CAP into consideration with usage statistics, though it is ran by Smogon so I could be wrong.

I've never cared to use PO, but from what other people have told me it's mostly full of really bad people...
The CAP server's stat's aren't really looked at, but the metagame is still there. We know that Quagsire is just about the last-hope wall to stop the dominant Fires in the tier, we know the tier is mainly special attacks without Chansey or Blissey, and we know Magmortar is the Mence of NU but he sucks so badly that he can't get taken out.
 

SuperMetroid44

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Woah... this looks VERY difficult. Sorry, it just seems too complicated. But I applaud your work on this, it must of took a while =)
 

Fuelbi

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Also PIPA and CISPA
Woah... this looks VERY difficult. Sorry, it just seems too complicated. But I applaud your work on this, it must of took a while =)
Tbh, it's actually pretty easy once you get the gist of it. All you need to do is just make a team and battle with it and get it rated and what not


Alternatively you can always just go to the mentoring program that's in the information center and you can always get someone to help and teach you the basics...
 

Deathfox30

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To Clarify, yes, they're by usage, except for Ubers and BL, discussions are made for ban tiers.
Yeah. I never really looked at how they determined them. I knew usage was a big part, but I didn't think all of it.

Some smogon sets are ancient or their order is ignored (for the longest time CM Jirachi sets were higher up than Choice Scarf), recent stats have shown that offensive variants are going down and bulky ones are going up.
I remember that. There were a ton of CM Jirachis too. If we're talking about the same time (many months ago) they were everywhere. I think people go onto Smogon and just assume the first set is the best and use it. That isn't really surprising, he's a good DDnite and Infernape check. Offensive variants would be better now too, though. Without scarf Latias revenging it and Mence coming in to intimidate it has a much easier time sweeping. I think the Taunt DD one would be really good right now, since only Vaporeon, Rotom-A and Starmie would really beat it

To Clarify, yes, they're by usage, except for Ubers and BL, discussions are made for ban tiers.
Yeah. I never really looked at how they determined them. I knew usage was a big part, but I didn't think all of it.


To Clarify, yes, they're by usage, except for Ubers and BL, discussions are made for ban tiers.
Yeah. I never really looked at how they determined them. I knew usage was a big part, but I didn't think all of it.


More like 1100+
Most people I play under like 1300 or so are really bad. Like 4-0 minimum and I'm not even good...


DS games are factored into Shoddy stats BTW
Your kidding, right? They couldn't accurately gather DS statistics. Which stats are you talking about anyway? I've only seen Shoddy server stats...

Again, Wynaut is in a ban tier, he was banned to there by discussion, not usage.
There's always been some talk with unbanning him, though.
When I posted I knew Uber and BL were ban tiers, but I didn't think they use 100% usage for other tiers and I think usage plays a factor in ban tiers. I know it's not about how it does in the tier, but how it would do in the tier below it, but when looking for possible suspects I'd think they would review the uber usage statistics to find candidates.

Not sure what you mean there, but if you mean the Wyanaut, you DO have old data.
| 300 | Wynaut | 4 | 0.01 |
If you mean the Gyarados, no, that's the newest usage data.
July didn't show up on google, so I did June. Too lazy to go and search for it on Smogon.

Considering sigging this.
Omai O:

This guide is telling you that more than HP and Defenses matter.
idc <3

Checked Umbreon's move usage, Pursuit isn't even on there. Also, Umbreon is the last of Gengar's Concern, he can probably 2HKO him with Focus Blast and won't be 2HKO'd by such a weak Pursuit. Gengar already has buttloads of problems with ScarfTar and the like so lol, bad example.
CB Umbreon would ****. With Dark Pulse + Hyper Beam. >:3

k

Cuteness, Weight, color, etc gg Wiggleh

That's because it's the most used Pokemon in Ubers.
| 1 | Kyogre | 15979 | 52.50 |
Parasect > Kyogre, pl0x <33333

The CAP server's stat's aren't really looked at, but the metagame is still there. We know that Quagsire is just about the last-hope wall to stop the dominant Fires in the tier, we know the tier is mainly special attacks without Chansey or Blissey, and we know Magmortar is the Mence of NU but he sucks so badly that he can't get taken out.
I use Diglet in NU.
 

Cubes

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Usage does play a role in determining whether a pokemon is banned to ubers. If usage won't go down, even after teams try to adjust to it (with counters), it's a good indicator that the pokemon is over-centralizing.

I never realized this forum existed here, this is fun.

Excellent guide, I just felt that you could have clarified that pokemon can fulfill multiple "roles" on a team i.e. Blissey is also the cleric/wish-passer.
 

UltiMario

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Your kidding, right? They couldn't accurately gather DS statistics. Which stats are you talking about anyway? I've only seen Shoddy server stats...
Typo. I meant AREN'T lol.
CB Umbreon would ****. With Dark Pulse + Hyper Beam. >:3


Cuteness, Weight, color, etc gg Wiggleh
Lol double wat

Parasect > Kyogre, pl0x <33333
Ice Beam
I use Diglet in NU.
Congrats, you are keeping Diglett from falling off of the face of NU. Not like it matters since nobody else uses him.

Usage does play a role in determining whether a pokemon is banned to ubers. If usage won't go down, even after teams try to adjust to it (with counters), it's a good indicator that the pokemon is over-centralizing.
I don't even think Wob was in top 20 when he was banned. If he was, then def not top 10 lol.
 

Cubes

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
42
I don't even think Wob was in top 20 when he was banned. If he was, then def not top 10 lol.
I merely said it was AN indicator, not the indicator. Something like Wobbufett is so inherently broken that it's going to be banned regardless of usage. In fact, people are still so **** scared of it that Wynaut is uber as well.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
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Wynaut is banned from the mindset of the era that all Pokemon were grandfathered into the tier their highest forms were put in. By the same logic, Gible was OU or Uber was well. When they allowed NFEs into UU, Wynaut was still under this effect that all other Pokemon were let free from seeing as it was allowed in UU but banned in OU because the effect had only taken place in UU. Since this was a paradox of being banned in one tier but not a higher tier, it simply was banned altogether with no testing, since the main concern at the time was UU, rather than suspect testing Wynaut.

It was banned without testing due to a stupid tradition Smogon used to have, and for some reason, even though the tradition has died, Wynaut is still being held captive by it.
 
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