Got some important videos of me for critique!

[Dr Peepee]

Alrighty then Marth boards, these are some of the videos recorded at a fest last week against one of the best, if not the best, in the state(Ali/I've Jihadit). Please check out my Marth once again, as I've tried my best to incorporate some of the best spacing games and traps and all that that I could.

vs Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTTUeRvm2IQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTjw76MRgVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT41ZpjGQB4

Some other videos of my Marth are on that channel, but I just want these looked at.

I'm guessing my biggest weakness is edgeguarding(let him DJ back to edge right?), and maybe also lack of Nair and sheildbreaker. Please help me out soon dudes because the huge NC tournament is this coming weekend! I need your help to go far!

 

[mosesrko24]

I just watched the first vid. You're pretty solid, but I'm not surprised you lost to the best snake in your state. I noticed that the snake never spot dodged. Knowing this, you could've grabbed him more. From there, I think you should probably u-throw because snake is pretty bad at getting out of juggles. Also, he often shielded your DB combo. When you hit a shield with DB, chances are you will get punished. To avoid this, try to mix up the timing of each hit. If you know you're going to get punished, you may as well finish with the down version to eat his shield. Hope this helps.

 

[IDK]

if you hit a shield with DB and expect them to roll... punish with another DB. if they just hold the shield, go with the down option for shield pressure. also if you just throw in a shield breaker after a hit or 2 most people dont expect it. i know this is kind of what moses said but i did add a little to what he said.

 

[Dr Peepee]

@Moserko: My grab game is consistently weak I guess. It's just that he always seemed to be ready for my grabs, and would just Ftilt if I went in for one anyway. I'll try to work some more grabs in.

Bigmack: You're right, it was kinda obvious that he rolled in the middle of it huh? I should've ended after 2 hits or used the third down hit and turned since he did it often. Also, he usually rolls/spotdodges in between hits, and mixes his game up to the point where I could plan on chasing only to get Ftilted.
Even so, I should play with his mind a little and vary my hit amount/timing. Thanks man.

 

[Shaya]

Your technique is fine barring:
Grab-Game (mentioned)
And your lack of Dolphin Slash.

Investment in mind games is where it's at for you, honestly... Like I'd notice you'd always hit with a fair and then run straight into a ftilt/utilt from the Snake... that's among other things. These were very fun matches to watch, but I considered your Marth a little bit predictable because of the pressure the Snake was putting you under.

 

[Dr Peepee]

DS is tough for me to work in because it's such a risky move and I try to space well enough to keep it from being necessary, but it is certainly useful, so I'll work on it.

So, you mean that I should switch my game up more? He plays a very intelligent Snake, so I'm not sure what more I could do to confuse him. Any suggestions there?

 

[Shaya]

Personally?

When I'm up against Snakes, a smart Snake knows that you have to approach because he can play defensive generally better than you.

So what do I like to do? Transition from going aggressive until it's back to me the Marth being defensive. Once the Snake is in the rhythm of physically attacking you they probably won't break out of it instantly.

That's a general one, against that Snake specifically? I don't know what he'd do in retaliation of what I would have done, because as you say, a very intelligent Snake.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah, I guess I'm kind of grasping at straws lol. Thanks for that though, I'll try to do my best to get him this weekend!

Any other suggestions from anyone(Emblem Lord, you're also invited to jump in whenever you feel inclined)?

Seriously though, any and all suggestions are welcome.

 

[mosesrko24]

DS is tough for me to work in because it's such a risky move and I try to space well enough to keep it from being necessary, but it is certainly useful, so I'll work on it.

So, you mean that I should switch my game up more? He plays a very intelligent Snake, so I'm not sure what more I could do to confuse him. Any suggestions there?

Like I said, I thought you were solid. If you felt you were having trouble, it's because snake

is a tough matchup and not that you're a bad player. You could try conditioning him to

expect something and then punishing him for his conditioned response (I know you've been

doing this, but I guess you could focus more on it). If you constantly approach with SH fairs

and he shields, you could empty SH, FF then run in and grab. You could constantly walk up to

him and d-tilt, and then mix it up by walking up to him and using SB. Be creative. Hope this

helps.

 

[Demonstormkill]

Just a few things I'd like to add:

1. Nice marth.

2. In the second vid he killed you with a bthrow > edgehog starting at 66%. Get in the habit of using DB to stall and this won't ever happen.

3. You're reading him quite well I think but you need a way to rack up damage instead of trading hits with snake. Try throwing him up like others have said as well as DB up and juggle him.

4. He's killing mostly by spamming utilt. Not uncommon, but it should help if you keep that in mind.

5. Since snake lives to high percents and just won't die sometimes, it really helps to get a grab when he's at high % and just pummel him to replenish your moveset. Pretty good damage too. That should soften him up.

6. Easier said than done of course. It probably won't be easy to get a grab when you need it... I did notice that likes to jump quite a bit though. Maybe you can use that against him to set up a juggle trap.

7. Keep in mind that he can punish alot of things with mortar slide. He uses it sparingly but to good effect so you have to be ready for it.

 

[SummerObsession]

If he spams Uptilt, try a well spaced ShieldBreaker. Or try running into a short hop counter. Snake is generally a hard match up for Marth, but your Marth is quite good Dr Peepee.

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, I saw no Chain grab, which ***** Snake. I also don't recall fthrow to Fsmash, which you need to open with solid damage.

Counter was horribly absent, as his Ftilt was uber predictable to me, and he spammed the hell outta Usmash. I believe the Upsmash bombs can be fanned.

Also, I can't believe this Snake didn't use Usmash to pivot Utilt trap.

Dolphin Slash and Counter **** Mortar dashing, so, more of that (don't use Dolphin Slash unless he's at high %).

 

[Steel]

Pierce:

I don't think fthrow - fsmash works on Snake. It doesn't work on everyone and I think Snake is one of them.

And you can also just ftilt/dtilt his Mortar dashing, that's what I do.


Anyway, I'll just throw this out there.. you managed to grab him a lot, but not once (at least from what i saw) did you up throw him to start a juggle trap.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hmmmm, very good points by all. I'll begin to Uthrow now for juggles, I simply forgot when I played him. Thanks for reminding me.

That's a good idea Moserko, anything I can do differently is definately helpful.

Pierce7d: Can I chaingrab Snake? Can they jump out or anything? If not, I'll definately try that next time. I also don't seem to know exactly when to counter because I'm always thinking I can outsmart him a different way and end up unerestimating his range/options.

I'll work on different options to get around mortar slide. Ftilt and Dtilt seem to be the safest options, so I'll probably use those more frequently. Thanks Steel2nd.

Great comments guys! I feel like I can really get him now! If anything else comes to mind, please don't hesitate to let me know.

 

[mosesrko24]

Pierce:

I don't think fthrow - fsmash works on Snake. It doesn't work on everyone and I think Snake is one of them.

And you can also just ftilt/dtilt his Mortar dashing, that's what I do.


Anyway, I'll just throw this out there.. you managed to grab him a lot, but not once (at least from what i saw) did you up throw him to start a juggle trap.

Does f-tilt really work that well for you? It seems like f-tilt's main use would be stopping SH approaches, so wouldn't you be better off d-tilting each time? (against snake, f-tilt just seems like the unsafe version of d-tilt)

 

[Steel]

When he is sliding towards you (not dash attack > up smash) ftilt and dtilt work. Heck, you might even be able to jab it. I never really tested it, but it's pretty easy to stop. It's not very "risky" when he cant retaliate in any way.

 

[Pierce7d]

Hmmmm, very good points by all. I'll begin to Uthrow now for juggles, I simply forgot when I played him. Thanks for reminding me.

That's a good idea Moserko, anything I can do differently is definately helpful.

Pierce7d: Can I chaingrab Snake? Can they jump out or anything? If not, I'll definately try that next time. I also don't seem to know exactly when to counter because I'm always thinking I can outsmart him a different way and end up unerestimating his range/options.

I'll work on different options to get around mortar slide. Ftilt and Dtilt seem to be the safest options, so I'll probably use those more frequently. Thanks Steel2nd.

Great comments guys! I feel like I can really get him now! If anything else comes to mind, please don't hesitate to let me know.

I'm 82% sure you can fthrow chaingrab Snake with fthrow.

Realizing that Snake has godlike range with his tilts is the first step to overcoming him. He outspaces Marth for no reason, accept that, and you'll do better. SHADing may actually catch Snake off gaurd, if you manage to space it and NOT land in grab range.

And try not to get hit by so much ftilt outta shield. Mix up Fairs and Shieldbreakers, to the point where Snake DOESN'T want to shield.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Alright then, that sounds good dude. I'll go test that Chaingrab a little now because that would help me out soooo much. SHADing is a pretty good idea too.

I tried to keep him from shielding after I broke his shield one match, but I guess that one instance isn't enough huh?

 

[Pierce7d]

Alright then, that sounds good dude. I'll go test that Chaingrab a little now because that would help me out soooo much. SHADing is a pretty good idea too.

I tried to keep him from shielding after I broke his shield one match, but I guess that one instance isn't enough huh?

Don't think shield breaker is useless just because you've already broken his shield once. I've once broken a player's shield 3 times in one match (3 stocks), just by implementing the correct mindgames. Even if it hits, it has awesome knockback on tipper., so it's still a good move.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. In fact, break it again. SB ftw son.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Good point. If he still feels safe in it, then I need to apply more pressure. That's definately a great mentality, one that I should keep in mind.