Good and Bad Lucas stages

[ZMan]

I was wondering what the Lucas boards think what Lucas's bad and good stages are. Here's what I got

EDIT: Now orginized vs. certain characters

vs. Mario
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Luigi
Strike:
Yoshi Island
Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Peach
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick

vs. Bowser
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:
Frigate Orpheon?
Port Town Aero Dive?

vs. DK
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:
Port Town Aero Dive

vs. Diddy
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Yoshi
Strike:

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Wario
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Link
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Zelda
Strike:

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Sheik
Strike:

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Ganon
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:
Port Town Aero Dive
Frigate Orpheon

vs. Toon Link
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Samus
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-Pick:

vs. Zero Suit Samus
Stirke:
Battlefield
Yoshi Island

Ban:
Luigi's Mansion

Counter:
Jungle Japes
Smashville

vs. Pit
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter
Luigi's Mansion

vs. R.O.B
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:
Castle Siege

vs. Ice Climbers
Stike:

Ban:
FD?

Counter-pick:

vs. Kirby
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. Meta-****ing-knight
Stike:

Ban:

Counter-pick:

vs. King Dedede
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:
Anything that has walls or walk-offs. Castle Siege, Delfino, Pictochat, ect.

Counter:
Brinstar
Norfair

vs. Olimar
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:
Delfino Isle
Elecktroplankton
Great Sea
Frigate Orpheon
Port Town Aero Dive

vs. Fox
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

vs. Falco
Strike:
Smashville

Ban:
Final Destination

Counter:
Anything with small walls and a high ceiling. Try Green Greens

vs. Wolf
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

vs. C. Falcon
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

vs. Pikachu
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

vs. Pokemon Trainer
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

vs Lucario
Strike:

Ban:

Counter:

vs. Jigglypuff
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

vs. Marth
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:
Norfair

vs. Ike
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:
Port Town Aero Dive
Frigate Orpheon

vs. Lucas
Akward

vs. Ness
Strike:

Ban:

Counter:

vs. Mr. Game and Watch
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

vs. Snake
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:
Brinstar
Halberd
Smashville

Counter:
Norfair?
Delfino

vs. Sonic
Strike:
Yoshi Island

Ban:

Counter:

Good:
Brinstar (just don't Snake there )
Delfino
Port Town Aero Dive (If you can find a tourny that allows it)
Norfair (See Port Town)
Pictochat

Bad:
Luigi's Mansion (Pillars block PK Fire, and those non-drop throguhs are annoying)
Castle Siege (Second part mainly, cause of those statues whic block PK Fire and D3 chaingrab)
Great Sea/Pirate Ship (This stage just hates me)

Dun know:
Halberd
New Yoshi Island
Pokestadium 1 and 2

EDIT: Now have character specific counter picks.

That's all I got so far. Anyone care to voice thir opinions.

 

[Affinity]

Skyworld's pretty bad for me

 

[Fhed]

i would say brinstar is pretty good cuz he would be saved by the acid when it comes up. His up b recovery does well there imo. Smashville, and battlefield are pretty good for him too.

 

[ZMan]

I like Smashville. Spaming PK Fire is fun there.

BF is cool as Usmash and Utilt (I think) go through da platforms. Same with Lylat. So I think those are good Lucas stages.

I think Great Sea/Pirate Ship is a bad Lucas stage for some reason. But that stage hates me for some reason.

 

[Griffard]

You guys seem to be forgetting the best counterpick in your arsenal.... Corneria of course! seriously, just drop down with your psi magnet to pick up 70% in health, zap jump or pkt2 yourself back to safety, you can even go on top of the cannons before returning! VERY good stage once you learn the timings correctly

 

[Levitas]

Griffard, it might not be counterpickable anymore due to the fact that there's a true wall under the fin now (it wasn't at the tournaments that I've been at).

 

[GofG]

What bugs me is that the lasers are no longer techable. You used to be able to hang out forever on the lasers and just tech them. I pulled that out at a tournament at UNCP, there were some semi-big names like Lozr and PacStrife there, and everyone went berzerk "Jesus that's dirty, i've never seen anything like that, that's so cool" because I got about 160% back >.<.

 

[Tyr_03]

I personally like Battlefield because it's really easy to thunderslide all over the place. It's my best stage by far. Yoshi's Island annoys me because if you have to recover from below the outside platforms can eat your thunders if you aren't paying attention. Easily avoided but still irritating.

 

[Jihnsius]

You're forgetting to take into consideration the character you're playing against.

vs fast characters, I'd say Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium, and Smashville are your best bet, they give you plenty of room to space. On the other side, stages like Battlefield and Lylat Cruise will give fast characters more opportunity to stay close to you.

vs slow characters, it'd probably be stages like Final Destination, Smashville, Battlefield, Port Town.

Predictable and linear recoveries would be best taken to Port Town.

Projectile spammers would be best taken to small stages, like Battlefield, and maybe Lylat and Smashville to a lesser extent.

EDIT: Why don't we start a character specific counterpick list?

 

[Levitas]

Jihnsius, that's a good idea.

 

[ZMan]

That's cool. I'll edit the first post

EDIT: Editted

 

[Conda]

Port Town is banned...

 

[Neodaft_boy]

I find Pit's stage always gets worst of my PKT when I try to recover... I often forget that you can't fly through the side platforms or even the bottom ones.

Although... it's a cool stage too, with Lucas, his up and down smashes destroy the platforms fully or make it so it's just about destroyed. It's fun ^^

 

[ZMan]

@Conda- Port Town isn't banned in my area, so as far as I'm concerned it's a counterpick.

@Neodaft- I think Skyworld will be banned (it's banned here in NM).

 

[prOAPC]

norfair is good angaist Snake and his wavesmash
i don't know, but maybe Corneria from melee is a good stage for Lucas, it has a low ceiling, so his up smash is more letal, and lucas can restore like 60% with the lasers of the ship

 

[Aevin]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Delfino Plaza. It's great for Ness/Lucas. Hasn't been banned at either of the tournaments I've attended, even though there's a few ... questionable parts.

The main part where you're on the platform set ... You can pass through the big platform from below, and that's always useful for setting up interesting PKT2 angles. If you get underneath the stage, it's unlikely anyone will try to steal your thunder before you recover, and you can hit them from some unexpected angles. I do well on this one and the (definitely banned) Bridge of Eldin.

 

[Jihnsius]

As far as Port Town Aerodive goes as a counterpick, Delfino Plaza could be more suitable for some matchups that don't do well in small areas, though the grabbable edges would somewhat even it out.

Ike - Final Destination, Pokémon Stadium, Lylat Cruise(?), Delfino Plaza(?)
Marth - Final Destination, Pokémon Stadium, Smashville(?), Delfino Plaza(?)

Will add some more later.

 

[supercake]

if you're playing at delfino experiment with the freeze, its actually semi-useful there on some parts like where there are water gaps between the stuckup islands, and also on top of the main star building because of advantageous angles from the sides you can shoot from with less chance of punishment.

and I dont see why everyone is so hyped about corneria since the gun underneath the ship has been changed to make it near impossible to survive its initial charging phase with lucas or even ness, unless someone has developed a neat little strategy??

 

[Aevin]

With Lucas, at least, you should be able to time falling through the guns with PSI Magnet activated, and have enough time after the guns finish firing to recover safely.

I suck at it, though ...

 

[Tyr_03]

Jungle Japes is a sweet stage for Lucas. You can use PKT2 almost anywhere sliding on the ground and you'll grab a ledge before it ends. This means in a lot of cases your PKT2 is basically unpunishable once you've got it going. Corneria is great for the healing by dropping down and also it's good for PK Thunder spamming. Just don't get stuck in a wall infinite by Dedede or some of the others. Norfair is very nice because it's really easy to recover safely because of all the ledges and because the bottom platform you can go through the bottom of. In general I find it's easier to go against characters that can out projectile spam you (like Toon Link) on platform stages like Battlefield whereas characters that have a harder time avoiding PK Fire (like Ike or DK) are much easier on big open stages like FD. But that may be just my personal preference.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Vs. Mario
Bride of Eldin so you don't get owned by cape and FLUDD lol.

vs. Snake you want to almost always take him to Luigi's Mansion, same for DeDeDe and probably Toon Link and maybe Link as well. Kill the top part with d-tilts in between stocks to reset your diminishing returns so you can U-smash.

Most other neutral stages are a matter of preference. I'm starting to get a knack for FD, and Battlefield and Orpheon are great for Thundersliding. Corneria has mega absorb action too so it's pretty good.

 

[ZMan]

Personally, against marth I would go to a big stage so you can wavebounce PK fire and he'll never touch you. So against marth I'd go to smashville, fd, or either Pokestadium.

@Technomonster- I think Bridge of eldin is banned in singles. Maybe Port Town or Delfino would be a good counter pick against mario. It need more testing though.

I'm thinking ahlberd is a decent lucas stage. If your oppent comes up through the stage in the flying part, all you have to do is U or dsmash to own them. Plus you can go though the stage and not worry about hitting anything to send you carrening to your death. And on the ship you can thunderslide all sick-like and the lazer can offer some awseome combos for Lucas. Any thoughts?

 

[TechnoMonster]

Come to think of it, Halbred is pretty buff for Lucas. Your u-air is a good height to harass that platform as well.

 

[Tyr_03]

Halberd is very nice for thundersliding. Same with Yoshi's Island. The angles work out nicely so you don't have to worry about mistiming it with a floorblast or something as often. I forgot to mention that stages with destructible terrain make PKT2 last longer which can really mess with people. Also keep in mind that Grass makes PKT2 go a shorter distance. So stages like Luigi's mansion you can really catch people off guard by how long your initial hit lasts. Green Hill Zone has both grass and destructible terrain so you get really short but long lasting PKT2 that can catch people too. I personally think Shadow Moses Island is a terrible stage for Lucas because of the inability to edgeguard people. But that might just be personal preference.

 

[Levitas]

Delino plaza is one of those stages (like halbred which was banned at the UMBs) that has sexy PKT2 tricks. (going under the stage just barely and sweetspotting the opposite edge while having a hitbox along the ground as you go. It's pretty tough to punish, because even if they know it's coming, they have to give you an indication that they're going to the edge, and you can steer the PKT up a little and end on the stage.

Edit: to clarify, the UMBs banned halbred and not delfino.

 

[Trozz]

Hey, that sounds like a great use of PKT2 to play defensive. I'd really like to see some videos of that in action.

I sort of do the same thing when I play stages with pass-through floors; drop from a ledge and PKT2 upwardsish towards the other edge.

 

[prOAPC]

vs. Zero Suit Samus
Jungle Japes

why do i have to play angainst a zero suit samus in jungle japes?

 

[Trozz]

So she can whip you to death and land kills with SH'd forward-b.

 

[ZMan]

Well according to the Zamus forums, Jungles Japes is a bad Zamus stage because of her side B and Up B that sweetspots the many ledges on the stage.


I might be wrong though.

 

[Trozz]

Skyworld is great for Lucas! You can use d-tilt to instantly refresh all of your attacks. Also, if you break the lower platform and hit with an up velocity attack (pk thunder/throw/u-smash/u-air), you can spike them through the cloud floor and they die.

Some people ban this stage.

 

[ZMan]

I think Skywolrd is a banned stage, so I won't list it on the first page.

So what does anyone think about the New Yoshi Island for Lucas? I'm not sure what to think of this stage really, anyone want to add their knowledge?

 

[Levitas]

New yoshi island makes Lucas's grab game suck, and also limits the use of bsticked pk fire. the platform is good for lucas, though. The walls are bad for lucas's recovery. The close death zones and shape of the stage right by the edge are good for lucas.

It's fairly neutral for him, but I hear gimpy's bowser is really good on that stage, so it'll be advantageous for certain other characters over lucas.

 

[Tyr_03]

Lucas can recover up the walls fairly easily on Yoshi's Island once you know the trick. You can wall hug at any angle about equal to or less than 75 degrees with the vertical on the left side and on the right side if you go up against the wall and shoot yourself straight up into the convex portion of the wall you can make it up to the ledge. Takes some practice but very doable. PK Fire does get nerfed a bit on it but thundersliding is great on it which makes up for it for me anyway.

Yoshi's Island (melee) can be pretty sweet for Lucas. You can cancel both his upsmash and downsmash by using them in the right places on top of the yellow blocks so that you keep the hitbox but can do another move right after. Also PKT2 up the slope on the right can kill people at ridiculously low percentages if you hit with it. Again PK Fire is kind of hard to use here though. Probably will be banned anyhow but still cool.

 

[TechnoMonster]

What do you guys think about Green Greens? Most characters can't really camp you there and upsmash kills at stupid percents.

 

[Levitas]

It's scary against metaknight, but other than that, it's alright. Characters that can hit you twice and kill on GreenGreens are scary.

Edit: I take that back. I lose a lot on Green Greens now that I think about it.

 

[ZMan]

I don't like Green Greens, so I wouldn't know.

It might be agaisnt chracters that have a hard time killing (sonic) but that's about it. It needs more testing though.

 

[S.D]

What do you guys think about Green Greens? Most characters can't really camp you there and upsmash kills at stupid percents.

I counterpick green greens, particularly against snake.

It's small enough that his annoying knack of never dying rarely comes into play and its tough on his recovery. A lot of the time he'll be forced to recover low and you can just grab him out of up b to his death.

Most nuetral stages are good for lucas - thundersliding is generally applicable to most of them.

Jungle Japes and Corneria are really solid for lucas too.

 

[Earthbound360]

If you are looking into Yoshi's Island, then the cons of it could probably be absent at the Halberd. It has no walls for stupid PKT2 bouncing and the floor isnt always slanted. Thundersliding also works here.

I love Battlefield for Lucas though. Full hop diar up the platform is amazing cuz it combos into ftilt, utilt, or jab. It seems to support his ground game also.

And of Course Corneria is a good choice. Healing FTW.

 

[ZMan]

Hooray for bumping my old topic.

I think you can infinite on Corneriawith Dtilt. I don't know yet, Corneria has been banned here.

Pictochat and Brinstar are really good for Lucas if you can adjust to changes really fast like I can.

Delfino Plaza is fun to.

 

[Trozz]

I really like Delfino and Halberd for PKT2 usage. Really long stages like FD are nice since you can really space yourself horizontally with PK Fire pushback tricks. Battlefield is probably the best though (considering tourney legal).