Meta GOML 2016 (Top 96) Impressions

[Tizio Random]

That was so hype! I unfortunately didn't watch it all the way through but what I've seen was pure magic. Congratulations to Ally and his Mario!
Man, I love this game.

 

[BlazGreen]

ZeRo's losers run was one of the most insane ones I've seen in this game, geez.

He went to game five three times during top 8. His mental stamina and clutch factor are second to none in this game.

 

[KamikazePotato]

People talking about how this tournament is a big occurence for and .

But is the real winner here. The leap from being able to place well to actually winning majors is far bigger than irrelevant characters becoming a little less irrelevant.

Ike got to Top 8 and Little Mac went dead even with the best ZSS in the world. I think you're being very hyperbolic if you call that strictly irrelevant - I doubt you'd call Mewtwo irrelevant and where was he in all this?

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Ike got into top 13, not 8.

 

[Djent]

Also, the fact hat ZeRo almost successfully brought the tournament back suggests that despite the narrowing skill gap, he's still a cut above the rest of the field. I expect that barring further health issues, he'll successfully reclaim the throne against a very narrow pool of challengers.

 

[sedrf]

Mario joins the list of the characters to win a major

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You all people are forgetting to include among the characters that won a major!

 

[ARISTOS]

Oh shit i beat Zero. Maybe Mario is better than top 15

— Ally (@AllyUltimate) May 22, 2016

 

[BlazGreen]

Ally won both singles and doubles as well the Brawl tournament. He has been on fire this weekend.

 

[my_T]

Djent

TBH i dont think Zero's a cut above everyone else. I think Leo could have beaten him if he went cloud from the start. I think Nairo could've beaten him if the diddy match-up wasn't so rough. I think Larry and Mr. R could've beaten him as well.

I've always known he wasn't that much better than some of the other top players. Concon taking a set off of him way back was the first sign. I think sheik being broken before 1.1.5 contributed to some of Zeros success in the past year

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Djent

TBH i dont think Zero's a cut above everyone else. I think Leo could have beaten him if he went cloud from the start. I think Nairo could've beaten him if the diddy match-up wasn't so rough. I think Larry and Mr. R could've beaten him as well.

I've always known he wasn't that much better than some of the other top players. Concon taking a set off of him way back was the first sign. I think sheik being broken before 1.1.5 contributed to some of Zeros success in the past year

Thing is he was recovering from an injury and literally missed an entire PATCH worth of tournaments(1.1.5 was BEFORE Pound.) The fact that he even got to GF is a testiment to his power

 

[Djent]

M my_T Of course you're right that the people who went 2-3 against ZeRo could have pulled it out. But then you start talking about how the guy who lost 0-3 could win given different game balancing, and I start scratching my head.

I'm pretty sure I can just flip your Leo argument around. I can point out that even at MLG, ZeRo went 3-3 in games of Diddy vs. ZSS. If only he had gone Diddy first, he could have won that too. One of his only losses is therefore attributable to how broken ZSS was pre-1.1.5.

EDIT: Fair point made by Dave Virian below.

 

[ARISTOS]

Also, the fact hat ZeRo almost successfully brought the tournament back suggests that despite the narrowing skill gap, he's still a cut above the rest of the field. I expect that barring further health issues, he'll successfully reclaim the throne against a very narrow pool of challengers.

In the other thread we were describing playstyles: is dominant neutral but dies early, is explosive but risky, is a wall, is an aerial powerhouse-

is so consistent, stock to stock. His weight and the relative safety of dtilt allows Diddy the ability to just... win where other characters struggle so much harder.

 

[Minordeth]

In a game with a low skill floor, it's to be expected that the most consistent player is going to be able to remain consistent. If this was Melee, Zero would have been have been out in pools. This is part of the reason I love Smash 4.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Back to for a sec:

Istudying again underplaces our expectations. Obviously he did good and placed WELL, however it is not enough to be considered anything groundbreaking or even big, considering he got outplaced by and , and placed the same as and . Greninja does not have the results at ALL to be considered top 15, his best placing being 2nd at a tournament that to be honest was not stacked (Europe not proving themselves to be strong, MVD the 33rd choke king, Esam who actually got top 3 in a huge tournament for once). The only person who was above everyone else was Mr R who bopped him.

You can argue all you want about theory, but results are not backing up his placements. Keep on talking about "OH he lost to the BEST fox, and a little mac who had momentum! Also he had jet lag that one time, and Beast was super duper stacked he beat that one good pikachu and MV33! Seeding is the issue, he should've been given a FREE BRACKET so all us mains can cheer about Greninja being recognized as top 2!" While results do not back this up at all. Tier lists are about results, and if iStudying is not living up to your top 2 expectations then he's overrated.

 

[David Viran]

M my_T Of course you're right that the people who went 2-3 against ZeRo could have pulled it out. But then you start talking about how the guy who lost 0-3 could win given different game balancing, and I start scratching my head.

I'm pretty sure I can just flip your Leo argument around. I can point out that even at MLG, ZeRo went 3-3 in games of Diddy vs. ZSS. If only he had gone Diddy first, he could have won that too. One of his only losses is therefore attributable to how broken ZSS was pre-1.1.5.

All of nairos games against zero went to last hit. The set was closer than the game count implies.

 

[teddystalin]

You all people are forgetting to include among the characters that won a major!

If we're counting Japanese majors, throw and in there. But if we're going by the usual definition of 400+ people with Mr. R as the token international, they don't count.

 

[Megamang]

Hey.

Hey.


We know greninja didn't win.


Where was the maple syrup?

 

[Vyrnx]

Larry has done amazing at all the tournaments he's gone to lately. His consistency is really moving on up.
I've been really impressed with Fox lately as well. That advantage state.

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm glad Canada's best were able to fight back the invaders

Proud of my homeland :')

 

[Ninety]

Hey, just realized both finalists were Chileans. Homeland represent!

 

[Teshie U]

Before you guys hand out major props to characters getting top 32 or 24 or even 16, please look at the bracket and see the level of skill at this tournament. This is a big tournament, but its certainly not a smash 4 major. This, PAX, MLG are all just top heavy events. People were easily able to skate by into top 32 and the people beating them easily getting top 24 and so on until the few pros that showed up sent each other to losers. Especially with MLG having terrible seeding.

While it is amazing that Ally, Nairo, Vinnie notably beat ZeRo at these events, it might be worth considering how much closer to untouchable ZeRo is when an event is a test of skill AND endurance.

Not trying to take anything away from these players, but people need to stop looking at placement and start looking at set wins. iStudy did not do well at ANY of the events he attended after Beast but people keep acting like him getting top 32 at top heavy events is a corner being turned for the greninja meta. This tournament means nothing for Greninja, Mac, Shulk, Robin etc.

Good stuff to ally winning smash 4 singles, doubles and brawl.

 

[IzzyInnuendo]

M my_T Of course you're right that the people who went 2-3 against ZeRo could have pulled it out. But then you start talking about how the guy who lost 0-3 could win given different game balancing, and I start scratching my head.

I'm pretty sure I can just flip your Leo argument around. I can point out that even at MLG, ZeRo went 3-3 in games of Diddy vs. ZSS. If only he had gone Diddy first, he could have won that too. One of his only losses is therefore attributable to how broken ZSS was pre-1.1.5.

EDIT: Fair point made by Dave Virian below.

Yeah but half the matches at mlg zss vs diddy were even, the other half being one sided, mostly on zss. That just proves that nairo is on zeros level, given how he outplayed him even though the match up has always been even before the patch. Although diddy clearly had and still has a better neutral compared to zss, and she had the up air ladder to death. After the nerfs to only zss, it has made the match up difficult for zss. Basically this tournament showed more about the standing of characters than it did the players.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Before you guys hand out major props to characters getting top 32 or 24 or even 16, please look at the bracket and see the level of skill at this tournament. This is a big tournament, but its certainly not a smash 4 major. This, PAX, MLG are all just top heavy events. People were easily able to skate by into top 32 and the people beating them easily getting top 24 and so on until the few pros that showed up sent each other to losers. Especially with MLG having terrible seeding.

While it is amazing that Ally, Nairo, Vinnie notably beat ZeRo at these events, it might be worth considering how much closer to untouchable ZeRo is when an event is a test of skill AND endurance.

Not trying to take anything away from these players, but people need to stop looking at placement and start looking at set wins. iStudy did not do well at ANY of the events he attended after Beast but people keep acting like him getting top 32 at top heavy events is a corner being turned for the greninja meta. This tournament means nothing for Greninja, Mac, Shulk, Robin etc.

Good stuff to ally winning smash 4 singles, doubles and brawl.

This tournament was not as top heavy as you're making it seem. A lot of Canada's talent gets very little exposure. This was the first time most of them have been at the same tourney.

 

[Teshie U]

Canada's "top talent" made it deep into the bracket by beating each other and beating barely notable players from the USA.

I think people are throwing around the word "major" a bit too easily when talking about big events.

 

[Mister M]

Is it not the number of attendee's that define whether it is a major?
Does it matter who all the mid level players were when the top 32 has a similar spread of top players compared to EVO or CEO? I might be wrong. It's a question.

 

[HoSmash4]

The top 8 would be something i'd expect at Genesis 3 or Pound. 9th through to 32 were at least a level below.

 

[Trunks159]

Before you guys hand out major props to characters getting top 32 or 24 or even 16, please look at the bracket and see the level of skill at this tournament. This is a big tournament, but its certainly not a smash 4 major. This, PAX, MLG are all just top heavy events. People were easily able to skate by into top 32 and the people beating them easily getting top 24 and so on until the few pros that showed up sent each other to losers. Especially with MLG having terrible seeding.

While it is amazing that Ally, Nairo, Vinnie notably beat ZeRo at these events, it might be worth considering how much closer to untouchable ZeRo is when an event is a test of skill AND endurance.

Not trying to take anything away from these players, but people need to stop looking at placement and start looking at set wins. iStudy did not do well at ANY of the events he attended after Beast but people keep acting like him getting top 32 at top heavy events is a corner being turned for the greninja meta. This tournament means nothing for Greninja, Mac, Shulk, Robin etc.

Good stuff to ally winning smash 4 singles, doubles and brawl.

You're right, as I think Pound was more stacked than GOML. GOML was full of Mid Level and Top Level players, no high level players really (Fatality, Ryo, Tweek, Marss, Zinoto, Shaky, FOW, etc are high level character specialists). Still a Major though.

 

[Teshie U]

Its a big deal for the top players taking each other out as usual, but when people are saying things like "shulk/mac/greninja" got top [number that sounds good but isnt] at a major, its pretty deceptive. Did anyone even look at the bracket?

When things like G3, Umebura FAT, EVO and Big House are considered majors, I don't think they should be lumped in with events where any mid level player can walk in and coast into top 32.

 

[AuraBreak]

This tournament means nothing for Greninja, Mac, Shulk, Robin etc.

A Mac going to game 5 with Nairo pushing him to his limits. Nothing for the meta, right? Pfft.

I agree with the amount of talent at this event being nothing special, though.

 

[Teshie U]

A Mac going to game 5 with Nairo pushing him to his limits. Nothing for the meta, right? Pfft.

I agree with the amount of talent at this event being nothing special, though.

Props to him, I actually was watching all 3 streams for a good bit and there were good matches, but I was pointing out that none of those players got good wins. Its not really uncommon for top players not known for their safety to go to final game with players far below them. MVD, ESAM and to an extent Nairo are known for this. They take alot of risks and play aggressive when they aren't forced to.

Nothing taken away from Alphicans for good games, but he didn't win the set. Yet somehow people are considering him a contender for best little mac based on this?

 

[greenluigiman2]

Alphicans was a contender for best Little Mac long before GOML. I've always thought Sol and Alphicans were pretty even, but after watching Alphicans last weekend against better competition than he has in Alberta, his Little Mac is a lot less prone to getting "Little Mac'd" than Sol's. He covers up the character's weakness so well. Sol has a lot more potential to destroy his opponent and also get destroyed himself. If they fused their styles together that'd be the most optimal Little Mac.

 

[ARISTOS]

Its a big deal for the top players taking each other out as usual, but when people are saying things like "shulk/mac/greninja" got top [number that sounds good but isnt] at a major, its pretty deceptive. Did anyone even look at the bracket?

When things like G3, Umebura FAT, EVO and Big House are considered majors, I don't think they should be lumped in with events where any mid level player can walk in and coast into top 32.

There should probably be a separation btw the two.

G3, EVO and FAT are probably the biggest Smash 4 tournaments that have occurred. They should be in a wholly different category.

 

[san.]

GOML had the best players coming from Alberta, British Columbia, Ontario (including some places a bit far out like Ottawa), Quebec, Nova Scotia, and others that I may have missed. Pretty much most corners of Canada had something to contribute, and they have many talented players in some of the more active provinces.

Out of country players included Michigan (host of TBH5), some from tristate, some upstate NY, and some top players flying out.

G3 and Evo are anomalies with the amount of players they are able to gather to 1 stage, especially since west coast is closer to Japan and Socal is the best individual region. They are in a league of their own (I am not too knowledgeable of the scope of FAT).

I definitely think GOML is national-level (don't really know what 'major' means for smash). Even if it didn't quite meet Pound or TBH5 in how stacked the tournament was, I think it in the same league of large events; heck, it's one of very few events where one would need to beat ZeRo in a set to get to top 8.

 

[Ninety]

Hey, how many attendees were there for this tournament in Wii U Singles?

 

[Illuminose]

Hey, how many attendees were there for this tournament in Wii U Singles?

489. Large tour.

 

[ArikadoSD]

You all people are forgetting to include among the characters that won a major!

Is it worth calling a tournament where only 3-5 (Komorokiri, Abadango, Rain, and idr if 9B or Ranai attended) of the top 50 players attended a major though?

I'd call EVO, CEO, GOML, Paragon, and SSC among others majors, events where a lot of the top talent was present, not a Japanese monthly however.

Assuming you're talking about Umebura where Kamemushi won twice in a row, or even the Georgia tournament that ScAtt won.