Getting a Pikmin to return to the front of your line

[MASTERLINKX]

I don't know if this is known,

But..if you toss a Pikmin, then grab the ledge,
when the Pikmin is walking back to you and is close,
either get up, jump, or let go of the edge, and the pikmin that you just threw will be in front of your line again. This also works if you Fsmash, then grab the ledge since they take time to come back to you.

I don't know if there are any uses for this.
Maybe using Purple Pikmin to throw at someone who is approaching you while you're recovering/on the edge.

Or if you Fsmash, and want that Pikmin back in front
of your line again because that's the only color of it in your line.

 

[Fino]

Interesting... I also know if you throw out a move and then tether, the pikmin you just used goes to the front. My guess is the by using your tether the game counts as all pikmin being used?


~Fino

 

[KBM]

Very cool. I smell whitey toss abuse!

 

[Pyronic_Star]

Interesting... I also know if you throw out a move and then tether, the pikmin you just used goes to the front. My guess is the by using your tether the game counts as all pikmin being used?


~Fino

does it happen if u tether the ledge or just up-b anywhere?

 

[Fino]

does it happen if u tether the ledge or just up-b anywhere?

Anywhere, try it out

Go to practice mode... pluck all 6 out, do an fsmash and then tether. The same pikmin that you just fsmashed with will return to the front of your line


~Fino

 

[KillerSOS]

could be good for missed whitey throws

 

[Pyronic_Star]

hey fino.... the pikmin only stays at the front if you up-b while staying on the ground. (could bw the other way around, i forget, but if your in the air or staying on the ground produce different results.)

ok... originally this made sense....

purple pikmin in front... up-b, all pikmin r used... purple stays in the front
or
throw purple, up-b on the ground... all pikmin in line are used... purple needs it's turn so it goes to the front of the line\\

however this is weird... throw purple, jump and up-b, purple returns to back of line....

does anyone have any ideas as to why an up-b on the ground and an up-b in the air produce different results for a returning pikmin's line placement?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

This is amazing :D

Hilt has something to research ^.^

alright, i tested a few things out. Not sure if what i found is new or not, but i'll say it anyways.

First of all, you're right fino. Using pikmin chain causes all of the pikmin in your line to be used. However here's something else i noticed:

Alright, the FSmash has three stages. well.. four stages. five stages? only three of them are important in this topic though.

Stage One: the initial attack. The pikmin comes out and travels horizontally
Stage Two: the pikmin begins free falling. The hitbox, however, continues to stay on the pikmin for 47 frames after the attack was started
Stage Three: the hitbox wears off
Stage Four: The pikmin is lying on the ground and begins picking himself back up
Stage Five: The pikmin begins walking towards olimar.

What's important in this is that the pikmin is counted towards your Pikmin order starting at stage five, not at the beginning of the attack. If you use pikmin chain before the it picks itself off the ground, or while it's traveling through the air, it will come back to you and be at the back of your line. If you use it after it starts walking towards you, when it gets back to you, it'll be at the front. I also noticed that this is the same time period in which whistle can call the pikmin back to you. if you whistle while the pikmin is in stage four or lower, the pikmin will merely sit there and eventually walk back towards you.

Latch:

latch works the same way as FSmash, having only three stages (the important ones). In the same sense, if you pikmin chain after the pikmin begins walking towards you, it'll return to the front of your line. However, latch is different in that whistle can be used to call the pikmin back at any time after the first stage. Meaning even if the pikmin is on the ground, whistle will still work.

If you Pikmin chain right after DSmash, the two pikmin will be in front again. USmash and UAir work as well, however you hit something for it to work.


I'll most likely do some frame data tests soon, regarding this. I have a tournament this weekend so i'll most likely do it after that.


This makes me even more tempted to start a Pikmin Mechanics Thread... maybe i should stop talking about it and actually get writing

 

[Pyronic_Star]

you didn't answer my question :/ or was i just doing them at different times producing different results?

and wht you found is interesting... it seems like the game considers a pikmin that is walking to be yours... but it makes me wonder if olimar has like a "hidden control box" in which the pikmin return to you line and are invincible. or if its something else that decides when your pikmin can be hurt and when they can't. depending on the order, return to line then invincible or invincible then return to line, it could explain that one video where it looked like the pikmin took the atk and nothing happened to olimar. i guess loss of hitbox would be more appropriate then invincible... unless it still has a hurt box but is actually invincible when certain conditions are met. there may also be a chance that the conditions needed to for the pikmin to be invincible are more complicated then mere distance otherwise pikmin would be hurt when you jump/run to fast. if this is the case... then possibly we could actually figure away to have "pikmin armor" and have a self induced desynched pikmin atk.........

these r all random ideas of course hilt... opinions?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

forgot about that part. Yeah, jumping and standing are the same both with latch and FSmash. It's all dependant on what state the pikmin's in.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about olimar having his pikmin line, and a hidden pikmin order, that includes pikmin walking towards him.

I'm not sure if a pikmin returning to you can be hurt or not. I'll have to check. I know there's certain situations in which pikmin can be hurt when they normally couldnt (sometimes when whistled). I'lllook into it.

I think this could get us a step closer to DeSync'd attacks though

;D

 

[Fino]

returning pikmin can be hurt... I threw a few pikmin out against stealth all flying right over his head.... he just stood there and then dsmashed them all @.@


~Fino

 

[DtJ Hilt]

did some tests on latch

i did most of the tests with all of the pikmin, but i'll only post red's results, as it's kinda pointless

KEEP IN MIND
this is what happens with a red pikmin, on level ground, without olimar moving at any point before, or during the process. This was just to get a general idea of everything.

and i'm not done, btw. This is just the first step.


Frame 1 - pikmin latch starts (not the hitbox but the beginning of the attack)

Frame 39 - pikmin lands, thus entering the state in which he can be whistled. If whistle's 'whistle' sound happens during or before this state, the pikmin will enter the 'whistled' animation in the folloing frame. Otherwise the pikmin will continue whatever animation he would enter afterwards.

Frame 103 - If pikmin chain is started during or after this frame, any pikmin returning to you will be ordered in the front of your line, in the order that they return to you in. Any pikmin used for the chain ill be ordered afterwards in the same order that they were in, in the chain.

Frame 151 - The pikmin becomes a part of olimar's 'line', entering the invincible state, even though it doesnt appear to be in olimar's line, as it's still walking towards him. The pikmin can be used for any attack while in this area.

Pikmin chain's animation lasts for 70 frames until olimar comes out of lag. However, the way this is looking, the pikmin must return to olimar's line within the first 49 frames of chain. This... sorta makes sense, since it's around frame 49 of chain that the pikmin land back on the ground from the attack. i'll test this all with the other pikmin and with other attacks later >.>

i also have some speculations at why DeSync'd smashes happen, due to this. Perhaps if the pikmin were to be attacked and moved into olimar's 'line range' at the same time, and the smash started at this point, it would work. I tried it a couple of times but didnt put much time towards it. i'll try more later.

 

[PFANT]

this seems to be related to the topic i had about using the same pikmin to grab twice in a row. when i was testing it out, the same pikmin would be used to grab twice if you timed your second pivot grab while it was on its way back to you.... the same but different.... yarr

 

[Pyronic_Star]

does this mean that if u atk on frame 151 you can atk with an invincible pikmin that would have increased priority?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

nah, that would be awesome though.

just basically.. 151 would be when the pikmin would enter back into your line. and pikmin in your line are invincible. However, when that pikmin's used for an attack it exits out of olimar's line and into the attacking animation, taking away his invulnerability.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

i c..... do you think there may be a way to trick the game? so that you have a invincible pikmin to atk wit O.o and add me on aim, my screen name is ace13crd

o yea, please