Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Mehdow · Oct 27, 2018

FamicomDisk said:
This are all pretty weak "leaks", though, aren't they...?

Saying that a game will have an "unbelievably amazing roster", and that it'll have nearly/absolutely no cuts, is an alright piece of evidence. In fact, unless I'm remembering something different than you are, her actual words were that Nintendo wants it to be the "Ultimate Smash Bros", and that the additions will "make people jump out of their seats". The "Ultimate Smash Bros"? And now we've got "Smash Bros Ultimate"? Wow, that's an even more impressive quote than it having an "unbelievably amazing roster"!

But the other things aren't super crazy, are they? Saying that the Switch will feature common engines supported on competitors' platforms? Saying that the Switch will be weaker than competing consoles, which has always been a pretty common trait for Nintendo? Saying that it has a weak battery? These are all things that are pretty easy to guess, right? Even saying that Zelda would be the biggest Nintendo production of all time... pretty vague claims that aren't impossible to guess, right?

Whereas specifics like Mother 3 releasing in 2016, Soul Caliber 5 and GTA5 coming to the Wii U, Pikmin 3 coming to E3 2011, Mario Odyssey being a Switch launch title, and Splatoon getting ported to the Switch, among other things, didn't end up happening.

I'm not saying she's entirely uncredible - it's entirely possible that she really did know everything about the Switch, and she's gotten stuff right before, like Paper Mario Color Splash, and getting Miiverse's 3DS launch date correct, but she's definitely not consistently reliable. I'm curious - why would switch to thinking it's fake if she said it was? Unless I'm missing something, she doesn't really have a solid track record...

That's exactly what I thought.

I'm not saying she didn't know anything right in the past, but all the info about the switch and its games is pretty.......logical.

Gurein · Oct 27, 2018

TheSpaceKing12 said:
Blunders from six years ago or more, do not account for her current track record. To clarify on link, she said that link would be female as an option based on outdated information, as the developer clarified that this was considered at one point. Mother 3 was a massive hoax spread around like candy, but again that happened 3 years ago. GTA5 was not a leak, that was a prediction on her part as she clarified. NOA was extremely hesitant to publish Devils third, this is a fact. And when released the game shipped less than 2K copies in all of America. They were actively considering searching for a new publishers.

What about her saying last january that there would be 16 new tracks for the "Mario Kart Port" or more?
I'm thinking she has the same source as all the other people suspicously denying the leak in favor of Inceniroar.

N3ON · Oct 27, 2018

The most tiresome thing about arguing in favour of Emily Rogers is the majority of the time when she gets things correct, because of the intermittent, comparatively less frequent times she's been mistaken, it doesn't ever move the needle closer to people believing her in the future. She's been around leaking for the better part of a decade, with her track record only getting better, but of course in that time she's made errors as well.

However, if you really want a picture free from partisan rhetoric like that 4chan post propagates, just go to resetera's Switch leak compendium and search for Emily's claims. It's literally just a list of claims, no narrative to accompany it, and they're about 80% correct (which is better than most), with basically everything in the past year being accurate (or yet to be proven).

So no, don't forego skepticism and invest into her words sight unseen, but outright dismissing anything she says is certainly no more prudent.

SmashChu said:
Sorry to bother guys, but I'm working on writing something up about the leak. Does anyone have the image someone drew showing what Issac is doing in the leak. Couldn't find it. Would greatly appreciate it.

TheSpaceKing12 · Oct 27, 2018

I think I should clarify. I am still team real. Very, very much so. It’s just that if Emily has cited this information then I’ll be changing sides. If it were speculation on her part, then nope still grinch gang. The reasons I believe her are numerous. But the core of them come down to her general reliability of the past couple years.

VexTheHex · Oct 27, 2018

I do question the old viewpoint of "Sakurai wouldn't tease Isaac with the Rathalos screenshot, that's mean and cruel to us" now being "Sakurai and Nintendo lied about Incineroar and faked him to catch leakers. Yay!"

That would be even worse than the Rathalos tweet possibly being a reference to Golden Sun to straight up spread rumors one character is in just to pull the rug out from under the fans of that character. :I

Dionaea_floridensis · Oct 27, 2018

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3 major fan requested characters from the pre-Brawl and Brawl era still not in the game are: Banjo, Geno, and Isaac. All 3 of these characters perform extremely well on numerous fan polls. Have we ever thought about an "Operation Rainfall" but for these characters? Is it worth attempting?

AlliwantisIsaac · Oct 27, 2018

FamicomDisk said:
Wow, we're really close to 600 now! I wonder if we'll hit 600 by the time the next Direct happens?

Add me please

FamicomDisk · Oct 27, 2018

TheSpaceKing12 said:
Mario odyssey launch, and Splatoon port were things that ar getting credited to her that aren’t true. The orignal source for that report was Liam Robertson and Laura Kate dale. She said that she had heard of thos things and believed they’d were true, but the instant that Liam and Luara back pedaled on the games, she did too. Her initial report from sometime in May or June, I don’t quite recall, was that there was about a 50/50 shot of Splatoon getting ported. We know now that it was a sequel heavily based on the previous version like hence the initial uncertainty.

I’ll put it this way. If you read her blog, and how it line does up with the switch, she basically knew freaking everything. As for why it’s important that she said the switch was weaker. This report came all the way in February of 2016. Back when everything indicated on the outside that Nintendo was engineering some sort of PS4 killer. Said rumor getting picked up in many places by the gaming news outlets. She was the first in a sea of people to identify that extremely important fact about the switch.

As for why it would personally change my stance on the leak. She never comments unless she’s absolutely certain anymore. Following years of harassment by the community, she’s gotten the point where she has seen fit to double, and triple source information before making any move at all. And so her info drops have become very few and very far between. If she’s willing to make a statement, that means that she has made absolutely certain, with no room for error, that there Is something wrong. Again, that is assuming her statements came from a place of sources, and not from a place of speculation. And until she gets back to me or someone else on that, it can’t be said with certainty.

Hm, fair enough. I didn't realize that the claims about Odyssey and Splatoon didn't come from her, though without seeing the original posts, it still sounds a bit odd to me that she'd claim that she'd also heard that. Even if it didn't come from her, she said that it was true, right?

The point about her blog is also fair - I haven't read it, so I don't know all the claims she made, but I do remember people were saying that the Switch would be amazingly powerful. So I'll agree with that part! Again though, I'd still say that her other false claims make me confident in her claims than you seem to be.

I wasn't aware that she's been making less claims, but that they're more accurate - that's interesting! I can understand why you'd be quicker to believe her if that's the case.

(Also, sorry if I sound confrontational or anything in these posts - that's not what I'm going for! I think discussion is good.

)

--

AlliwantisIsaac said:
Add me please

Welcome! I'm not the one behind the support list -

True Blue Warrior is the one running it. But I'm glad to see a new supporter just the same!

zabimaru1000 · Oct 27, 2018

FlintIke said:
I could almost cry imagining Isaac's reveal with such an awesome remix of his battle theme... AND HE IS NOT EVEN HERE!

I would actually be the hypest I've ever been if somehow we get a Simon/Richter style trailer and when Felix shows up, his battle theme gets remixed on full blast.

tveye · Oct 27, 2018

VexTheHex said:
I do question the old viewpoint of "Sakurai wouldn't tease Isaac with the Rathalos screenshot, that's mean and cruel to us" now being "Sakurai and Nintendo lied about Incineroar and faked him to catch leakers. Yay!"

That would be even worse than the Rathalos tweet possibly being a reference to Golden Sun to straight up spread rumors one character is in just to pull the rug out from under the fans of that character. :I

Coming from someone who never believed that Rathalos was a reference to Golden Sun, it makes total sense to use Incineroar as leak bait. For starters, Sakurai isn't the only person developing Smash, leak bait could be something that another member of the team would be responsible for.
I personally feel that Chrom was used as bait in Smash 4 because he was the most expected Fire Emblem character after the success of Awakening. Now that Ultimate is coming out, it's highly likely that since Greninja was chosen as the Pokemon gen 6 rep out of an idea that he would be popular, people would assume that the Smash team would feel the same about Incineroar which would make people believe his inclusion even more.

After all, Smash fans love to look for patterns and Sakurai loves to exploit that.

SupriceSupplies · Oct 27, 2018

So, I'm just passing by this thread real quick, and I apologize if I derail the topic of conversation. I started Golden Sun recently, and after a bit of doing stuff I didn't understand (I blame my lack of sense of direction), I've started to gain quite a liking to it. I just went through Goma Cave, and I'm planning on continuing tomorrow. So, I just wanted to say thank you Isaac supporters. It's given me a good first impression and I probably wouldn't have known of its existence without you guys. I have a feeling I'll be enjoying the ride from here on out.

Dionaea_floridensis · Oct 27, 2018

SupriceSupplies said:
So, I'm just passing by this thread real quick, and I apologize if I derail the topic of conversation. I started Golden Sun recently, and after a bit of doing stuff I didn't understand (I blame my lack of sense of direction), I've started to gain quite a liking to it. I just went through Goma Cave, and I'm planning on continuing tomorrow. So, I just wanted to say thank you Isaac supporters. It's given me a good first impression and I probably wouldn't have known of its existence without you guys. I have a feeling I'll be enjoying the ride from here on out.

Glad you're enjoying it! If you have any questions about the game, feel free to ask us!

True Blue Warrior · Oct 27, 2018

Updated.

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zabimaru1000 · Oct 27, 2018

tveye said:
Coming from someone who never believed that Rathalos was a reference to Golden Sun, it makes total sense to use Incineroar as leak bait. For starters, Sakurai isn't the only person developing Smash, leak bait could be something that another member of the team would be responsible for.
I personally feel that Chrom was used as bait in Smash 4 because he was the most expected Fire Emblem character after the success of Awakening. Now that Ultimate is coming out, it's highly likely that since Greninja was chosen as the Pokemon gen 6 rep out of an idea that he would be popular, people would assume that the Smash team would feel the same about Incineroar which would make people believe his inclusion even more.

After all, Smash fans love to look for patterns and Sakurai loves to exploit that.

Here's a pattern for you: Ken and Shadow's inclusion would give each Smash game at least one newcomer echo fighter.

Dark Samus (64)
Daisy, Chrom (Melee)
Shadow (Brawl)
Ken (Smash 4)
Richter (Ultimate)

Undella2 · Oct 27, 2018

A lot of the more poplar people in the community in 2014 said that the ESRB leak was "fake" or whatever.

Now people are saying the same about this image leak that would be ridiculously hard to pull off singlehandedly without the use of near-magic.

Nintendo itself had published a trailer the very same day that the Grinch leak originally came out as if to say "ignore that leak and look at this trailer instead" even though, to my knowledge, they hadn't done that before. (tried to officially get people's attention away from a leak and look at something else, that is)

Gamexplain had said that the ESRB leak was fake, and they say the same about this one, too.

We know that some of the companies involve like to make leak bait to catch people leaking information. (explaining the lack of Incineroar)

We know that the image shown would be very hard to replicate without the use of the original renders, and the background details missing are likely due to the poor Snapchat image quality.

And we know that this Emily person doesn't have a perfect track record meaning that she could easily be wrong again.

I, for one, will stay on Team Real until Nintendo officially gives out new Smash-related information that isn't just a poorly-made trailer.

TeamFlareZakk · Oct 27, 2018

Isaac has always been the guy to top my most wanted characters for Super Smash Bros for like pretty much a decade, he deserves it if hes in.. However Im not buying any leaks to be for real, I would much rather simply believe in Isaac making it in just as I always did for the past decade and I believe this time it will happen its time for the Golden Sun to rise 1s again for Super Smash Bros Ultimate! #IsaacForSmash

ferioku · Oct 27, 2018

See how the forums getting distressed?! You see why I hate leakers..? So much time in a day and you spend it creating artificial leaks for what resson, it's nothing but annoying -_-...

SonicLink125 · Oct 27, 2018

Billybae10K found this comment in Reddit about the leak. More evidence for it being real. Just...wow!
https://mobile.twitter.com/Billybae10K/status/1056303519337201664

Smashoperatingbuddy123 · Oct 27, 2018

My goodness

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/436700621

This is killing me I got to keep my expectations in check Incase if fake it’s getting harder and harder

roydgriffin · Oct 27, 2018

I tried figuring out Isaacs pose in the supposed leak, maybe I will brush it up if i am motivated!
Wondered where I should post this, so i figured here would be fitting, since i was lurking here for a while

PurpleStuff5 · Oct 27, 2018

roydgriffin said:
I tried figuring out Isaacs pose in the supposed leak, maybe I will brush it up if i am motivated!
Wondered where I should post this, so i figured here would be fitting, since i was lurking here for a while

I love the idea of our boy Isaac trying to add some life to this somewhat apocalyptic landscape. He's like "You guys are great and all, but this needs some color, my dudes.".

TheSpaceKing12 · Oct 27, 2018

-Strong Ballot Performance
-Fan favorite for a decade
-Assist trophy, so the team is familiar with the character
-First Party, among the last series with several sequels still unrepresented
-Rathalos Picture
-Support for the character by various websites and reporters
-Mystery Item
-Fallout of Grinch leak saw leakers say it was impossible because of Banjo, or the others, but never Isaac

Even in a world where the Grinch Leak is fake, which I still doubt we are in, Isaac's chances have skyrocketed over the last week in ways few other characters have in all of smash history. If I were to rate his chances right now, i'd honestly give him a 90%. That's up from my previous projection of 55%. If Grinch Leak is fake, and we get one more character after Geno, it will be Isaac.

roydgriffin · Oct 27, 2018

I should add that I also did this to try to find out if he was "drawn right", figuring out the details, comparing them to his official artworks,
eliminating some distortions of the whole thing, (which involved cutting out the characters around him from the actual mural, to figure out the amount of distortions)
I outlined the different body parts one at a time to not let me get distracted from what was already drawn by me and really figure out the shapes of each individual part, which took a while, but I think the result looks quite right, the way the belt is turned away from the viewer, but the armor towards him.

Details like that are important to figure out if the drawing was done by a real artist or just half-*ssed because the leak would be blurry anyway.
So whoever drew this at least took a good look at Isaac to get every detail right and has knowledge about anatomy!

Edit: I am a graphic artist by trade, maybe i should mention that

Frosty Pops · Oct 27, 2018

VexTheHex said:
I do question the old viewpoint of "Sakurai wouldn't tease Isaac with the Rathalos screenshot, that's mean and cruel to us" now being "Sakurai and Nintendo lied about Incineroar and faked him to catch leakers. Yay!"

That would be even worse than the Rathalos tweet possibly being a reference to Golden Sun to straight up spread rumors one character is in just to pull the rug out from under the fans of that character. :I

I doubt it was Sakurai who is responsible if Incineroar was just a way to catch leakers. That probaly came from whoever leads the Nintendo Ninjas in their witch hunts. But Sakurai personally put up the Rathalos tweet, so they are under a completely different set of circumstances.

Nazyrus · Oct 27, 2018

roydgriffin said:
I tried figuring out Isaacs pose in the supposed leak, maybe I will brush it up if i am motivated!
Wondered where I should post this, so i figured here would be fitting, since i was lurking here for a while

Nnnnnnghhhhhh………… This is so beautiful i can't resist … I WANT IT TO BE REAL

User Name String · Oct 27, 2018

SupriceSupplies said:
So, I'm just passing by this thread real quick, and I apologize if I derail the topic of conversation. I started Golden Sun recently, and after a bit of doing stuff I didn't understand (I blame my lack of sense of direction), I've started to gain quite a liking to it. I just went through Goma Cave, and I'm planning on continuing tomorrow. So, I just wanted to say thank you Isaac supporters. It's given me a good first impression and I probably wouldn't have known of its existence without you guys. I have a feeling I'll be enjoying the ride from here on out.

Hey, positivity is well enjoyed any time. Have fun!

Dionaea_floridensis · Oct 27, 2018

Smashoperatingbuddy123 said:
My goodness

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/436700621

This is killing me I got to keep my expectations in check Incase if fake it’s getting harder and harder

It looks like the little sliver on the right is on the same sheer of paper

TheSpaceKing12 · Oct 27, 2018

TheSpaceKing12 said:
Might as well go down the whole list. Billy if you're reading this and wanna make a video about the insiders and those in the know in reference to the leak, go ahead. This information took a LOT of time to compile.

Gamexplain. 3 of the 6 members of gamexplain have come out saying very confidently that it is fake. Derrik who just hate's leaks in any capacity, Jon who's proven to have industry connections made a bet saying that if the leak was real he'd sit in a dirty puddle (lol), and Andre who says there should be a pokemon. He got very angry about the leak thread on reset era later, comparing it to a trump rally. That got some backlash but since then he's remained silent on the matter.

Spawn Wave. He runs a gaming news channel with an emphasis on Nintendo. He has some mutual's who are in the know. He personally doesn't believe it. On account of Incinroar's absence, and Geno and Banjo's presence. He agree's heavily with Andre seemingly, and commented that the reset era thread would be a thing of beauty before long.

Roger's base. He runs a One Piece and Nintendo hybrid channel. He's friends with several of these people and he was a known supporter of the ESRB leak when it originally hit. This time he is taking the stance of team fake. He's not an insider by any stretch, but given that connection to gamexplain it's not a stretch to say that they told him Incinroar is in.

Liam Roberston. a reporter who has a TON of connections say's that it's fake due to his own sources. However, he has acknowledged the possibility of the rumors he has heard being false, as it has happened in the past. He said he'd willingly take the L if he was wrong, as he put it. He personally theorizes that someone had assets from the leakers previous work place were used to create the leak. He has been very defensive about his stance on it being fake, and call's most of the counter arguments straw grasping.

NGameTheCube. He's not an insider but he is also very well researched, he runs a youtube channel covering Nintendo and leaks. He has predicted a lot of the characters, like Ridley a day or two before the reveal with confidence. He has been very vocal about his support of the leak, and how he thinks it's completely true on every level. He's known for perpetuating the idea of Steve being playable this time around, which came from some leakers.

Spooky Mystic. This is a known leaker who primarily operates within the Kingdom Hearts and Persona communities. He made the claim that the leak is real yesterday. But today further clarified that he had been approached by a ton of people saying with absolute certainty that Incinroar is in. He said that something strange was going on, that smash leaks are uncharted territory for many, and that all the insiders are on different levels of knowledge with tons and tons of conflicting reports. He also said t one newcomer trailer was gonna happen, and that it would contain two characters. And ended off by saying he wasn't going to touch smash again.

Alex/Nintendo Life. Nintendo life is a news website with tons of connections. They produce reviews too. Alex is the face of the youtube channel. He made a video on the leak saying that it was fake. Saying that it was a bit too wish-list like and so on. I myself actually contacted him as he mentioned sources at the end of his video. He told me that he wasn't willing to give out sources (obviously) but stated that said source has never been wrong in the past.

Artsi Omni. He's again, not an insider. But he's a very infamous fake leaker at one point himself. And he's got some background in game development, and is also friends with Gamexplain. He seems to think it's fake, on account of differences in battlefield. But has remained neutral on the whole thing throughout.

Vergeben. The currently most infamous smash leaker or insider. He said that it's fake on account of not having Incinroar. Making a meme joke about Incinroar on life support and posting it on Gamefaqs. He got extremely angry when people made the suggestion that Banjo and Isaac were not in, telling them that just because this leak was in his opinion fake, doesn't mean that Isaac and Banjo and whoever else aren't in.

Leaky Pandy. This is a twitter account that posts rumors and information regarding upcoming games and the like. They've bowed out of smash leaks and have built a bit of a rep for being unreliable. They've gotten direct dates right in the past but missed the content within them. Anyways, they didn't want to comment on the banner leak, but when Liam Roberston confirmed that the leak's person was in fact a real guy who worked at a real print shop, they simply wrote "RIP" They then retweeted Push Dustin's posting of the translation of Marina's statement. They then later commented on the toxicity surrounding the discussion that Andre alluded too.

Stealth_. This is a pretty popular twitter user and he does market research. He's been a guest on various podcasts in the past as well. He's not really an insider, but he's alluded to thing in the past that turned out legitimate. For instance, he firmly believed that a new DK character would be present in the game, and some time late reply we got K rool. He firmly believes that the leak is fake, saying that some nintendo employees must have had a laugh. After that though when the sprout item was identified as potentially from golden sun, he cast out support for Isaac, an action that he has taken several times in the past.

Ryan Brown. This is another reporter. He's fairly close friends with people like Laura Kate Dale, another infamous leaker who was behind the magnum opus that was the switch leaks. He commented that Genuine leaks have happened in the past and that they aren't out of the realm of possibility. He personally wants the leak to be true on account of being a mach rider supporter.

Nintendo Voice Chat. This is a podcast hosted on IGN. Gamexplain has been on with them before. Being associated with IGN it's fair to say that they'd be in the know. That having been said, they've seemingly cast support in favor of the leak, discussing it positively in episode 430 of their show.

[Update 1]
Papa Genos. This guy is a smash leak youtuber. He originally created his channel in support of Mach Rider, which is a character that he felt was severely underestimated. He has made videos covering various 4chan text leaks and image leaks leading up to this point. He claims to have a source, and this source has a source from within Microsoft. And said Microsoft source was aware of Banjo, all the characters currently on the banner, in combination with Incinroar. Because of Incinroar's absence this source is very confused at the current time. I contacted Papa Geno's personally on discord to ask about the nature of the source. He stated that he obviously wasn't willing to give up the source, but that they came to him, and that if I were to know the source i'd probably believe him. He currently presents the theory that either A, Incinroar is DLC, B, Incinroar is leak bait, or C, the leaked banner itself is leak bait. He firmly believes that this leak isn't fabricated due to his source, and that it has to have come from somewhere official. Regardless of it's true nature.

[Update 2]
Emily Rogers. Emily Rogers is a ridiculously promintnet Nintendo’s leaker with a very strong track record. For instance, she leaked many years in advanced that breath of the wild (then called Zelda U) would be the biggest Nintendo video game of all time. She did comment prior to E3 that smash switch’s roster would be “unbelievably amazing” however, After the switch leaks, she bowed out of the leak game for the most part. She replied to Nintendo’s everything article on the initial grinch leak, stating “I wouldn’t buy what that grinch leak Is selling” I reached out for comment in a reply, if she reply’s or adds anything, I will amend further. It’s unclear if she thinks the leak is fake based on sources, or if it’s her personal take away.

[Update 3]
BeatEmUps. BeatEmUps is a video game channel that does reviews and news. With a specific highlight on nintendo and the switch. With the exception of gamexplain, they are the biggest youtube channel on the list. They claim to be in contact with sources indicating that the leak is fake. He specifically highlighted Geno as being to much in terms of fan service. He pointed out how many leakers that are in the know who are familiar with "Everything Nintendo" as he put it, all are saying that it's most likely fake.

A very diverse range of opinions are represented. And if I misrepresented anyone, or wrote something in an awkward fashion, i'll amend my post as needed. The common theme here is that people think it's fake on account of Incinroar's absence. Or think it's real on account of surrounding evidence. It's a mess, to say the least. I'm not sure what to think. I've only managed to keep tabs on all of these various people and sources at once just on account of surfing the whole damn internet at once the day this leak hit.

Amended to add BeatEmUps. I'm fairly certain that is it in terms of potential sources or content creators with contacts. But i'm still open to suggestions.

Ura · Oct 27, 2018

I know I've been bouncing back between being optimistic and pessimistic with Isaac BUT...

I think I can say without any shred of doubt that he's in the game with or without the Banner leak.

Between the Golden Sun trademark, the leaked item, the Rathalos tweet, and Isaac being among one of the most popular Ballot choices, I feel very optimistic for our guy.

It's only a matter of time fellas. Isaac Claus is coming to town.

Coofle DeDoofle · Oct 27, 2018

What do you think will happen if the leak is fake? Will people hate the leaker for getting our hopes up? Or will people hate Verge for being right about really underwhelming final reveals?

Nazyrus · Oct 27, 2018

Coofle DeDoofle said:
What do you think will happen if the leak is fake? Will people hate the leaker for getting our hopes up? Or will people hate Verge for being right about really underwhelming final reveals?

I dont think neither box theory or verge will be right regardless of grinch leak being real or fake, personally.

Frosty Pops · Oct 27, 2018

Also, concerning Incineroar and our so called "hate" for him...it is not the character himself that I have issue with, it is what he represents to Smash if he is allowed into the roster over other characters.
Like Smash becoming stagnant, he is a Pokemon which we have more than enough of, and getting more reps from an already overrepresented franchise instead of other 1st party characters from new franchises is not only boring but repetitive.
He is a fire user, I can't think of any other fire users can you!?!? Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Roy, Ike, Robin, Charizard, Samus, Ness, Lucas, Simon, Ridley, Olimar and that is just off the top of my head and I did not count explosives in my list, just anyone with a fire based move. Give us something new if you are adding another Pokemon.
He has not stood out in popularity from other pokemon in general. Just as many people have talked about wanting Lycanroc and Decidueye, and that is just from their game. Others have been wanted for longer and by more people, Sceptile and Blaziken are easily more popular. And the only reason anyone is paying attention to Incineroar in particular is because of Verge.
Lastly I will end my rant with this (although I could continue till your ears bleed). Pokemon may be one of Nintendo's heavy hitters, and so people can't comprehend getting a game without a new one in base. But if this is a game "for the fans" Isaac, and Geno should be locks. As should Banjo in either base or first round of DLC (dunno how difficult the legal situation is for getting a character so I am just assuming it is not simple) those 3 "at minimum!" need to take priority but I can think of at least 10 others who would be bigger and better crowd pleasers.

I apologize, I do not mean to sound rude in this. But even if you are a hardcore Incineroar supporter you should see all of my points are at least somewhat relevant.

Guynamednelson · Oct 27, 2018

Frosty Pops said:
But even if you are a hardcore Incineroar supporter you should see all of my points are at least somewhat relevant.

It's like talking to a brick wall, unfortunately. It doesn't matter what you think.jpg, making complaints about its design seem like a good thing, acting like a minor anime appearance is a big thing, etc.

Q-Long · Oct 27, 2018

How many songs do you think GS would get?

I would be happy with 8

Frosty Pops · Oct 27, 2018

Coofle DeDoofle said:
What do you think will happen if the leak is fake? Will people hate the leaker for getting our hopes up? Or will people hate Verge for being right about really underwhelming final reveals?

Or will they (hopefully not do this but still possibly) get mad at the Smash team for not having some or all of these characters after they were told this is a game "for the fans" 3 of them in particular are wanted like crazy and there may be serious backlash from fans who got their hopes up and blame Sakurai and his team because they think they didn't try hard enough to make the "dream roster", that lots of people are starting to expect because of this leak. From all of the content already revealed you know they have not been slacking on thia game. But misplaced hope can make people irrational. And that will put even more stress on the Smash team.

Frosty Pops · Oct 27, 2018

Guynamednelson said:
It's like talking to a brick wall, unfortunately. It doesn't matter what you think.jpg, making complaints about its design seem like a good thing, acting like a minor anime appearance is a big thing, etc.

Only with some of them. I can agree with some peoples points against Isaac and he is my most wanted for over 10 years. I won't attack anyone for that oppinion but I can agree to disagree on the end point, whether or not we think he will be in the game.

Coofle DeDoofle · Oct 27, 2018

Frosty Pops said:
Also, concerning Incineroar and our so called "hate" for him...it is not the character himself that I have issue with, it is what he represents to Smash if he is allowed into the roster over other characters.
Like Smash becoming stagnant, he is a Pokemon which we have more than enough of, and getting more reps from an already overrepresented franchise instead of other 1st party characters from new franchises is not only boring but repetitive.
He is a fire user, I can't think of any other fire users can you!?!? Captain Falcon, Fox, Falco, Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Roy, Ike, Robin, Charizard, Samus, Ness, Lucas, Simon, Ridley, Olimar and that is just off the top of my head and I did not count explosives in my list, just anyone with a fire based move. Give us something new if you are adding another Pokemon.
He has not stood out in popularity from other pokemon in general. Just as many people have talked about wanting Lycanroc and Decidueye, and that is just from their game. Others have been wanted for longer and by more people, Sceptile and Blaziken are easily more popular. And the only reason anyone is paying attention to Incineroar in particular is because of Verge.
Lastly I will end my rant with this (although I could continue till your ears bleed). Pokemon may be one of Nintendo's heavy hitters, and so people can't comprehend getting a game without a new one in base. But if this is a game "for the fans" Isaac, and Geno should be locks. As should Banjo in either base or first round of DLC (dunno how difficult the legal situation is for getting a character so I am just assuming it is not simple) those 3 "at minimum!" need to take priority but I can think of at least 10 others who would be bigger and better crowd pleasers.

I apologize, I do not mean to sound rude in this. But even if you are a hardcore Incineroar supporter you should see all of my points are at least somewhat relevant.

Fair points all around. I mean, we have 9 playable Pokemon. We might have roughly the same number of Mario reps or more (depends on if you count the reps of spin-off titles), but Mario's the face of Nintendo, so it makes sense. For Pokemon, 9 more than enough. We don't even have that many Fire Emblem characters and people are already sick of how much Smash love that franchise gets. So yeah, let's give some love to franchises that have no reps whatsoever yet.

Frosty Pops said:
Or will they (hopefully not do this but still possibly) get mad at the Smash team for not having some or all of these characters after they were told this is a game "for the fans" 3 of them in particular are wanted like crazy and there may be serious backlash from fans who got their hopes up and blame Sakurai and his team because they think they didn't try hard enough to make the "dream roster", that lots of people are starting to expect because of this leak. From all of the content already revealed you know they have not been slacking on thia game. But misplaced hope can make people irrational. And that will put even more stress on the Smash team.

That'd be the worst possible scenario and I'd feel really bad for Sakurai if that happens, even if he didn't put all those characters in.

Frosty Pops · Oct 27, 2018

Q-Long said:
How many songs do you think GS would get?

I would be happy with 8

Seeing how much Castlevania got I think around 10 at least.

THE 6r · Oct 27, 2018

I get home, open up a magazine I just got, and what's the first thing I see?

TheSpaceKing12 · Oct 27, 2018

Well. If anyone has 5 dollars to invest. Liam Roberston made a post to his patreon where he covers the Grinch Leak. I imagine he'd be more willing to share anything regarding the nature of his sources there, if anywhere. That having been said i'm not entirely sure if a confidentiality agreement or anything of the sort goes into it when you watch the video. I have never subbed to someone on patreon. I might do it, but i'm not sure.

Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

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Making Super Smash Bros a more beautiful world!

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Rookie

Smash Cadet

Banned via Warnings

Smash Rookie

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Smash Champion

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Banned via Warnings

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Smash Apprentice

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