Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[TheBeastHimself]

Since we love RPGs here, what are your guys' thoughts on Undertale? Also, I feel like I'd be in the minority of saying I'd prefer Papyrus over Sans in Smash (even though I'd love both in the game). Papyrus just seems like he's got a lot of untapped potential, and we never got to see his special attack which would have apparently "blasted" us **megalovania plays in the distance

 

[TheCJBrine]

Since we love RPGs here, what are your guys' thoughts on Undertale? Also, I feel like I'd be in the minority of saying I'd prefer Papyrus over Sans in Smash (even though I'd love both in the game).

I love Undertale.

I'd like to see Papyrus & Sans play where Sans could be off to the side like Pokemon Trainer and help Papyrus (whom you play as) with his attacks, or maybe they could tag-team idk. As Papyrus takes more damage, Sans gets more serious, and Sans's final smash would be his final attack from his Undertale battle.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I love Undertale.

I'd like to see Papyrus & Sans play where Sans could be off to the side like Pokemon Trainer and help Papyrus (whom you play as) with his attacks, or maybe they could tag-team idk. As Papyrus takes more damage, Sans gets more serious, and Sans's final smash would be his final attack from his Undertale battle.

Would it be overpowered for Sans' gasterblasters to appear randomly on screen like they do in Undertale, with their blasts phasing through solid objects? I'm not talking a ton of them, like one at a time.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yo if we get 16 DLC characters, Sakurai is gonna fade away at the end of the direct like a Force Ghost. Just like Luke in The Last Jedi.

He's just gonna peace out of this world in a ''Mission complete" sort of way.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I made this awhile back.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I made this awhile back.
View attachment 197787

Thank you for giving Conker some recognition my friend.

 

[Deleted member]

If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?

Just off the top of my head.
1) Geno
2) Banjo
3) Erdrick
4) Porky
5) Shantae
6) Rayman
7) Isaac
8) Shadow
9) Skull Kid
10) Doomguy
11) Arthur (GnG)
12) Kratos
13) Goku
14) The Undertaker

 

[EarlTamm]

Since we love RPGs here, what are your guys' thoughts on Undertale? Also, I feel like I'd be in the minority of saying I'd prefer Papyrus over Sans in Smash (even though I'd love both in the game). Papyrus just seems like he's got a lot of untapped potential, and we never got to see his special attack which would have apparently "blasted" us **megalovania plays in the distance

I love Undertale and I certainly feel that Papyrus is the more fitting choice for a Smash rep.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Would it be overpowered for Sans' gasterblasters to appear randomly on screen like they do in Undertale, with their blasts phasing through solid objects? I'm not talking a ton of them, like one at a time.

It'd likely be OP if the blast phased through the stage, but if it didn't I think it'd be fine.

 

[Deleted member]

Since we love RPGs here, what are your guys' thoughts on Undertale? Also, I feel like I'd be in the minority of saying I'd prefer Papyrus over Sans in Smash (even though I'd love both in the game). Papyrus just seems like he's got a lot of untapped potential, and we never got to see his special attack which would have apparently "blasted" us **megalovania plays in the distance

I love Undertale.

I'd like to see Papyrus & Sans play where Sans could be off to the side like Pokemon Trainer and help Papyrus (whom you play as) with his attacks, or maybe they could tag-team idk. As Papyrus takes more damage, Sans gets more serious, and Sans's final smash would be his final attack from his Undertale battle.

Would it be overpowered for Sans' gasterblasters to appear randomly on screen like they do in Undertale, with their blasts phasing through solid objects? I'm not talking a ton of them, like one at a time.

I love Undertale and I certainly feel that Papyrus is the more fitting choice for a Smash rep.

It'd likely be OP if the blast phased through the stage, but if it didn't I think it'd be fine.

I actually haven't played Undertale yet, but now that it's on the Switch I might

 

[DaxMasterix]

IMO Papyrus is so gentle to start a Fight and sans is too sans to be in there. (1 hit KO stuff and etc)
So I'd love to see Frisk getting in

 

[ZelDan]

papyrus is awesome, but between him and Sans I feel Sans would probably get chosen just for being a bigger deal in the game. It also helps that Sans can do what Papyrus can do, but more.

If any Undertale character were to get in over Sans, it'd be Frisk

 

[TheBeastHimself]

IMO Papyrus is so gentle to start a Fight and sans is too sans to be in there. (1 hit KO stuff and etc)
So I'd love to see Frisk getting in

Frisk could definitely have an interesting moveset. Especially if they could somehow implement the Act system.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Frisk could definitely have an interesting moveset. Especially if they could somehow implement the Act system.

I would love to see a move like a counter, where, instead of counter attack, frisk *flirts* and forces the enemy to do a random taunt (Until the end)

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Since we love RPGs here, what are your guys' thoughts on Undertale? Also, I feel like I'd be in the minority of saying I'd prefer Papyrus over Sans in Smash (even though I'd love both in the game). Papyrus just seems like he's got a lot of untapped potential, and we never got to see his special attack which would have apparently "blasted" us **megalovania plays in the distance

Undertale is pretty great.

I can’t possibly think of a single scenario where I’d ever understand having a character from the game as a playable character. I barely think indies should be on the table for the most part, and I think there’s a long waiting list of “more important” characters in that department alone anyway.

I’d probably have some fun with a character, but it would physically break me that they chose Undertale before such a long list of other things. Especially because I don’t think it has such a great claim to Nintendo with how long it took to show up on Nintendo consoles...

 

[Ze Diglett]

Since we love RPGs here, what are your guys' thoughts on Undertale? Also, I feel like I'd be in the minority of saying I'd prefer Papyrus over Sans in Smash (even though I'd love both in the game). Papyrus just seems like he's got a lot of untapped potential, and we never got to see his special attack which would have apparently "blasted" us **megalovania plays in the distance

I enjoyed Undertale when I played it, though in retrospect, I really wish I hadn't spoiled most of it beforehand. I thought the game itself was good enough for what it was, and I'm really interested to see where the IP goes in the future. I agree with you that I'd prefer Papyrus to Sans in Smash (even if I prefer Sans as a character), with the latter maybe making a cameo in a taunt or a victory animation or something; he'd be more in character that way, honestly. In fact, I actually wouldn't be opposed to Undertale in Smash period at this point since it means we'd get Smash remixes of Undertale/Deltarune music, and yes, please!

I'm not really getting my hopes up over the 16 WoL slots thing ATM. We also have 30 placeholder character slots in the game's files that we've known about for months now, and that doesn't exactly prove anything, does it? If anything, it puts a soft cap on how many characters we can expect as DLC. Sorry, but I'm gonna need to see something substantial before I stop believing they're just future-proofing at this point.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Undertale is pretty great.

I can’t possibly think of a single scenario where I’d ever understand having a character from the game as a playable character. I barely think indies should be on the table for the most part, and I think there’s a long waiting list of “more important” characters in that department alone anyway.

I’d probably have some fun with a character, but it would physically break me that they chose Undertale before such a long list of other things. Especially because I don’t think it has such a great claim to Nintendo with how long it took to show up on Nintendo consoles...

Do you care to elaborate? Why do you think indies shouldn't be considered compared to other characters? In my personal opinion, indie or not, they're video games at the end of the day. While some franchises have had bigger impacts than others, the Smash roster itself shows that that isn't too important... Undertale is right up there with Shovel Knight and Shantae.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Since we love RPGs here, what are your guys' thoughts on Undertale? Also, I feel like I'd be in the minority of saying I'd prefer Papyrus over Sans in Smash (even though I'd love both in the game). Papyrus just seems like he's got a lot of untapped potential, and we never got to see his special attack which would have apparently "blasted" us **megalovania plays in the distance

I love Undertale.

But if what you're asking about Undertale in Smash, I don't think there's a single character that makes sense. Due to Undertale's gameplay, there's not a lot of combat happening beyond the generic attack action, while the bosses all have caveats (not to mention it'd be weird to have a boss playable over the MC). Personally, like how Shovel Knight is an AT and Shantae a Spirit, I think it would be cool if we got Sans as a boss. (Also we need more bosses period, I'd argue they're hands down the best addition in Ultimate)

Yo if we get 16 DLC characters, Sakurai is gonna fade away at the end of the direct like a Force Ghost. Just like Luke in The Last Jedi.

He's just gonna peace out of this world in a ''Mission complete" sort of way.

Had to quote this just to acknowledge a reference to The Last Jedi.

I actually haven't played Undertale yet, but now that it's on the Switch I might

You really should, I think you'd enjoy it. I had the fortune to play it without spoilers (even though I played it last year) and it's an emotional experience.

 

[Deleted member]

I love Undertale.

But if what you're asking about Undertale in Smash, I don't think there's a single character that makes sense. Due to Undertale's gameplay, there's not a lot of combat happening beyond the generic attack action, while the bosses all have caveats (not to mention it'd be weird to have a boss playable over the MC). Personally, like how Shovel Knight is an AT and Shantae a Spirit, I think it would be cool if we got Sans as a boss. (Also we need more bosses period, I'd argue they're hands down the best addition in Ultimate)

Had to quote this just to acknowledge a reference to The Last Jedi.

You really should, I think you'd enjoy it. I had the fortune to play it without spoilers (even though I played it last year) and it's an emotional experience.

Welp, I watched a playthrough of it the winter before last already so I remember a bit about the game lol

Though I don't remember all of it...

 

[Lime3037]

I could see more characters coming after the Fighter's Pass, but no more than 3 or so. We'll see.

As for Undertale, I actually first learned of it through the Smash 4 Miiverse Board. I was just browsing it one day after not visiting it for a long time, only to be really confused as to why people were posting pictures of some random skeleton (sans).

As for the game itself, eh...it's not my thing. None of the characters appeal to me. The music is pretty good, though.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Do you care to elaborate? Why do you think indies shouldn't be considered compared to other characters? In my personal opinion, indie or not, they're video games at the end of the day. While some franchises have had bigger impacts than others, the Smash roster itself shows that that isn't too important... Undertale is right up there with Shovel Knight and Shantae.

Because I view third parties with a different general lens than I do forst party characters. Third parties I expect a higher pedigree from on average and I just can’t personally ever justify most indies when several big series from other third parties are not currently represented. Here’s a list of big ones that we don’t currently have that do have better relations with Nintendo that I would argue as the priority:

Dragon Quest
Ninja Gaiden
Resident Evil
Ace Attorney
Contra
Rayman
Tetris

If we expand that to include series with less ingrained Nintendo connections, than the situation gets worse;

Minecraft
Tomb Raider
Doom
Mortal Kombat

And even on the indie front, you’ve characters like Shantae, Shovel Knight, and Quote. Some of these hold deeper ties with Nintendo and some have arguably had more impact on the indies scene. Not to mention you’ve also got McMillen’s creations like Meat Boy and Isaac that have seniority status as well. That’s part of why I don’t like indie reps as a concept because I don’t any single one does justice to indie games as they exist now. How do you choose who comes first from such a long list of candidates?

And that goes without mentioning a ton of other major franchises, fan requests, and just generally unique characters to pull from and design in gaming. I’d just prefer my third parties to be more curated on average despite me supporting really any character that we get. But that’s a personal preference thing there I’m more than willing to admit.

Edit: And I just touched upon some of the bigger names of third parties I’ve seen thrown around for Smash in the affiliates mainstream area, there’s dozens more for that and several could that could also be justified as Nintendo relevant as well.

 

[EarlTamm]

Because I view third parties with a different general lens than I do forst party characters. Third parties I expect a higher pedigree from on average and I just can’t personally ever justify most indies when several big series from other third parties are not currently represented. Here’s a list of big ones that we don’t currently have that do have better relations with Nintendo that I would argue as the priority:

Dragon Quest
Ninja Gaiden
Resident Evil
Ace Attorney
Contra
Rayman
Tetris

If we expand that to include series with less ingrained Nintendo connections, than the situation gets worse;

Minecraft
Tomb Raider
Doom
Mortal Kombat

And even on the indie front, you’ve characters like Shantae, Shovel Knight, and Quote. Some of these hold deeper ties with Nintendo and some have arguably had more impact on the indies scene. Not to mention you’ve also got McMillen’s creations like Meat Boy and Isaac that have seniority status as well. That’s part of why I don’t like indie reps as a concept because I don’t any single one does justice to indie games as they exist now. How do you choose who comes first from such a long list of candidates?

And that goes without mentioning a ton of other major franchises, fan requests, and just generally unique characters to pull from and design in gaming. I’d just prefer my third parties to be more curated on average despite me supporting really any character that we get. But that’s a personal preference thing there I’m more than willing to admit.

Edit: And I just touched upon some of the bigger names of third parties I’ve seen thrown around for Smash in the affiliates mainstream area, there’s dozens more for that and several could that could also be justified as Nintendo relevant as well.

Something feels off about treating indie's as some sort of video game second class citizen, especially with how prominent the Switch indie scene is.

 

[Xigger]

Something feels off about treating indie's as some sort of video game second class citizen, especially with how prominent the Switch indie scene is.

Couldn't have put it better myself. It's not like Shantae is different from other game franchises because it isn't published by a large company.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I wouldn't think Nintendo would let Smash support die so soon when all their other games got support so much longer. WITH a new president that wants to focus on DLC. But then again if Sakurai wants to stop he wants to stop.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't think Nintendo would let Smash support die so soon when all their other games got support so much longer. WITH a new president that wants to focus on DLC. But then again if Sakurai wants to stop he wants to stop.

He also said that he wants to do as much as he can for Ultimate soooo that's something to think about. I think we might get at least a Season 2, A season 3 on the other hand while it would be amazing it's also rather unlikely.

 

[EarlTamm]

Couldn't have put it better myself. It's not like Shantae is different from other game franchises because it isn't published by a large company.

True on the publisher factor, but I will mention that Shantae's first game was published by Capcom. That is not a bad thing for her indie status though, as her going indie is what saved her series from falling into obscurity and is a great success story overall.

 

[MissingGlitch]

He also said that he wants to do as much as he can for Ultimate soooo that's something to think about. I think we might get at least a Season 2, A season 3 on the other hand while it would be amazing it's also rather unlikely.

I guess it might be one of those things where if Nintendo likes the fighter pass sale numbers they might greenlight a 2nd. So on and so on.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think Indies have a right to be in Smash too, but they should be treated differently than regular third parties. If they aren't, they'll never get in Smash; as big as Undertale can be or as influential as Cave Story was, they don't really hold a candle to giants like Dragon Quest or Doom. If we hold them to the same standards, they lose.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think Indies have a right to be in Smash too, but they should be treated differently than regular third parties. If they aren't, they'll never get in Smash; as big as Undertale can be or as influential as Cave Story was, they don't really hold a candle to giants like Dragon Quest or Doom. If we hold them to the same standards, they lose.

I can understand this, especially since the indie scene is comparatively new in the grand scheme of things, especially when talking Smash candidates. The only two big Indies I can see getting in Smash that are older than a decade is Quote and Shantae, with the former being the first big indie and the ladder being a strange case of a a published game series going indie down the line because they had a poorly timed first game.

 

[ForsakenM]

There's also 30 unused character slots, so this really changes nothing. Bear in mind they could simply be left unused (iirc happened with Sm4sh).

I think we determined that the 30 slots are including alts, but despite that I did say this isn't 100%. PolarPanda has been trying to quell people so that we don't get hyped for no reason.

Something feels off about treating indie's as some sort of video game second class citizen, especially with how prominent the Switch indie scene is.

It's less about 'second class citizens' and more how indies really are their own thing. Think about this: why are indies successful? Because they offer something AAA companies do not focus on, so why would we want them involved in big AAA titles? Seriously, indies are best represented within themselves, not AAA companies. That's why Rivals of Aether and those of that nature are better choices for having indie characters repped in a fighting game/crossover title. Also, EricTheGamerman had a good point: indies don't quite work like other character choices.

For example, AAA games often have multiple releases and many characters involved, yet still have a single favorite that makes it easy to pick from if you can only pick one to represent the series (Simon for Castlevania, Cloud for Final Fantasy, Ryu for Street Fighter), but indies not only have the issue of many of the characters being beloved within a single game but also the issue of many characters loved among indies as well.

Think about trying to decide just for Undertale, for instance: do you pick Frisk, Sans, Papyrus, Undyne? All of them could work, and they are all equally loved and people would be equally upset no matter who got cut, unlike with Simon when Alucard was an AT or Ryu/Ken when Guile was an AT. Now, imagine only getting one or two choices for indies as a whole...who the hell do you pick? Sans or Frisk? Shantae? Shovel Knight? Quote? Celeste? Meat Boy? Isaac? Cuphead? Hollow Knight? Insert like 10 or more characters from popular indies and you see the problem.

Now compare to Uncharted: who do you pick? Nathan Drake, obviously, no brainer.

Indies games are their own thing, and they tend to connect with us better because they are their own thing: not just a game, but a project with soul and heart crafted when the budget is lacking. Thus, I think they should get nothing but small nods from bigger names to keep them as what we treasure them to be. If anything, it's less about indies being 'lesser than' AAA titles, and more that they are the perfect reprieve from AAA titles and need to stay separated to enjoy them, if that makes any sense.

 

[EarlTamm]

It's less about 'second class citizens' and more how indies really are their own thing. Think about this: why are indies successful? Because they offer something AAA companies do not focus on, so why would we want them involved in big AAA titles? Seriously, indies are best represented within themselves, not AAA companies. That's why Rivals of Aether and those of that nature are better choices for having indie characters repped in a fighting game/crossover title. Also, EricTheGamerman EricTheGamerman had a good point: indies don't quite work like other character choices.

For example, AAA games often have multiple releases and many characters involved, yet still have a single favorite that makes it easy to pick from if you can only pick one to represent the series (Simon for Castlevania, Cloud for Final Fantasy, Ryu for Street Fighter), but indies not only have the issue of many of the characters being beloved within a single game but also the issue of many characters loved among indies as well.

Think about trying to decide just for Undertale, for instance: do you pick Frisk, Sans, Papyrus, Undyne? All of them could work, and they are all equally loved and people would be equally upset no matter who got cut, unlike with Simon when Alucard was an AT or Ryu/Ken when Guile was an AT. Now, imagine only getting one or two choices for indies as a whole...who the hell do you pick? Sans or Frisk? Shantae? Shovel Knight? Quote? Celeste? Meat Boy? Isaac? Cuphead? Hollow Knight? Insert like 10 or more characters from popular indies and you see the problem.

Now compare to Uncharted: who do you pick? Nathan Drake, obviously, no brainer.

Indies games are their own thing, and they tend to connect with us better because they are their own thing: not just a game, but a project with soul and heart crafted when the budget is lacking. Thus, I think they should get nothing but small nods from bigger names to keep them as what we treasure them to be. If anything, it's less about indies being 'lesser than' AAA titles, and more that they are the perfect reprieve from AAA titles and need to stay separated to enjoy them, if that makes any sense.

I don't really get this idea admittedly, especially with Shovel Knight being an assist in Smash and Shantae and Risky being spirits. It also does not help that these indie developers clearly want to be apart of this project if the many call's to action during the Smash Ballot was any indicator.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, not really me intention to treat indies as below level games. I think indies are overwhelmingly holding parts of the industry up and are doing an amazing job of innovating when AAA gaming is more limited than ever.

But, if Smash is a self contained history of gaming, I think priority goes to a lot of those other absolutely huge franchises that have had impacts or have been major industry icons. The Nintendo characters can get away with being obscure because they serve as the primary pillar of Smash, Nintendo history. First party characters still completely dominate the roster, but so much has been touched upon already that you can have many of those weird picks without too much issue. Our list of third parties, while the most impressive crossover ever, is still relatively small and incomplete as far as the second pillar of general gaming history and the Nintendo third parties go.

I think you hold all third parties to a higher standard because every inclusion is and should be a massive deal to Smash and the fans. It’s a ton of extra work to get third parties on board and you’ve realistically got fairly limited space for them. And there’s more of them to potentially represent than Nintendo characters even in the game.

So, indies are likely to get one character, maybe two if they ever become playable. You’re then picking a representative who has to be emblematic of the indie gaming scene in addition to whatever else they individually represent. Preferably you’d also want to choose one that has closer ties to Nintendo, and Shantae, Quote, and Shovel Knight are really the main considerations there.

Undertale is a hit with quite a fan base. But it’s still so recent and less obvious in impact overall than some of the older indie giants it would be against. Plus the series showing up on Switch is literally the only real connection to Nintendo even if it did take influence from some stuff like Earthbound.

I just don’t see justification for Undertale being the indie rep when I think an indie rep already has tons of competition and doesn’t seem exactly likely when Sakurai already knocked the two front runners with said Nintendo history out with smaller representation in Smash.

The odds are just stacked against indie characters as playable in Smash from what I see. That’s why something like Blade Strangers works so well in that it can give voice to all indies without having to then potentially go up against titans of the industry just for one to make it through.

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah, not really me intention to treat indies as below level games. I think indies are overwhelmingly holding parts of the industry up and are doing an amazing job of innovating when AAA gaming is more limited than ever.

But, if Smash is a self contained history of gaming, I think priority goes to a lot of those other absolutely huge franchises that have had impacts or have been major industry icons. The Nintendo characters can get away with being obscure because they serve as the primary pillar of Smash, Nintendo history. First party characters still completely dominate the roster, but so much has been touched upon already that you can have many of those weird picks without too much issue. Our list of third parties, while the most impressive crossover ever, is still relatively small and incomplete as far as the second pillar of general gaming history and the Nintendo third parties go.

I think you hold all third parties to a higher standard because every inclusion is and should be a massive deal to Smash and the fans. It’s a ton of extra work to get third parties on board and you’ve realistically got fairly limited space for them. And there’s more of them to potentially represent than Nintendo characters even in the game.

So, indies are likely to get one character, maybe two if they ever become playable. You’re then picking a representative who has to be emblematic of the indie gaming scene in addition to whatever else they individually represent. Preferably you’d also want to choose one that has closer ties to Nintendo, and Shantae, Quote, and Shovel Knight are really the main considerations there.

Undertale is a hit with quite a fan base. But it’s still so recent and less obvious in impact overall than some of the older indie giants it would be against. Plus the series showing up on Switch is literally the only real connection to Nintendo even if it did take influence from some stuff like Earthbound.

I just don’t see justification for Undertale being the indie rep when I think an indie rep already has tons of competition and doesn’t seem exactly likely when Sakurai already knocked the two front runners with said Nintendo history out with smaller representation in Smash.

The odds are just stacked against indie characters as playable in Smash from what I see. That’s why something like Blade Strangers works so well in that it can give voice to all indies without having to then potentially go up against titans of the industry just for one to make it through.

I just realized, isn't Geno a obscure third party character? Yeah, the game he appeared in was Mario, but we are talking about things purely on a technical level. Just something I figured I would point out while I was thinking about this.

And wouldn't it be a massive deal in of itself to have a third party indie? To represent such an important facet of current gaming and such a big part of current Nintendo culture? Let's be honest, indie's where definitely carrying some of the Switch's weight in 2018 when it came to new releases. And I am sure getting an indie character would be a bit more on the easy side compared to some other AAA characters, at least in price and cooperation. I am sure many indie devs would jump on the opportunity with gusto. I definitely don't think we would get a Final Fantasy situation at least.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I can understand this, especially since the indie scene is comparatively new in the grand scheme of things, especially when talking Smash candidates. The only two big Indies I can see getting in Smash that are older than a decade is Quote and Shantae, with the former being the first big indie and the ladder being a strange case of a a published game series going indie down the line because they had a poorly timed first game.

Personally, I can't really see Shantae getting in, as things are. Imo the indie games that have a shot are Cave Story (seniority), Touhou (seniority and continued relevance), Shovel Knight and Undertale (huge success and acclaim). Shantae doesn't have seniority (as an indie, I'm aware that as an IP she's the oldest but she doesn't have that 'original indie' angle), and wasn't as big a hit with audiences or critics. While Shantae does have huge support, I'm not convinced that helps in a world where Sakurai cares about crafting the biggest gaming crossover more than about the fans' wishes - plus, I think Shovel Knight eclipses her in the demand status as well.

I just realized, isn't Geno a obscure third party character? Yeah, the game he appeared in was Mario, but we are talking about things purely on a technical level. Just something I figured I would point out while I was thinking about this.

And wouldn't it be a massive deal in of itself to have a third party indie? To represent such an important facet of current gaming and such a big part of current Nintendo culture? Let's be honest, indie's where definitely carrying some of the Switch's weight in 2018 when it came to new releases. And I am sure getting an indie character would be a bit more on the easy side compared to some other AAA characters, at least in price and cooperation. I am sure many indie devs would jump on the opportunity with gusto. I definitely don't think we would get a Final Fantasy situation at least.

While having an indie would be a massive thing in and of itself, that's a one time only affair. So you can either have one indie to rep them all (as the massive thing can't be repeated) or each indie included has to be a massive affair independently of their indie status (which is a tough thing to ask of an indie).

 

[Deleted member]

Good night you guys lol

 

[EarlTamm]

Personally, I can't really see Shantae getting in, as things are. Imo the indie games that have a shot are Cave Story (seniority), Touhou (seniority and continued relevance), Shovel Knight and Undertale (huge success and acclaim). Shantae doesn't have seniority (as an indie, I'm aware that as an IP she's the oldest but she doesn't have that 'original indie' angle), and wasn't as big a hit with audiences or critics. While Shantae does have huge support, I'm not convinced that helps in a world where Sakurai cares about crafting the biggest gaming crossover more than about the fans' wishes - plus, I think Shovel Knight eclipses her in the demand status as well.

She does excel in Nintendo history though. Her first three games were at some point or another Nintendo exclusive for a time, as well as Risky's Revenge and Pirates Curse being top games in the DSI Ware and Eshop respectively. Shantae also feels like one of the more common indie cameo characters, though certainly not as much as Shovel Knight. And while her first game is not technically indie, her first indie game is still on the older side, as it is around 8 1/2 years old as of now. Helps that she is also a popular on both sides of the sea, something many indies struggle with, including Shovel Knight from what I have heard. Shantae is also the only other indie who got representation in Smash besides Shovel Knight, getting both spirits and an icon. I think that is more than enough.

 

[GoodGrief741]

She does excel in Nintendo history though. Her first three games were at some point or another Nintendo exclusive for a time, as well as Risky's Revenge and Pirates Curse being top games in the DSI Ware and Eshop respectively. Shantae also feels like one of the more common indie cameo characters, though certainly not as much as Shovel Knight. And while her first game is not technically indie, her first indie game is still on the older side, as it is around 8 1/2 years old as of now. Helps that she is also a popular on both sides of the sea, something many indies struggle with, including Shovel Knight from what I have heard. Shantae is also the only other indie who got representation in Smash besides Shovel Knight, getting both spirits and an icon. I think that is more than enough.

I guess that's true, but does Nintendo history matter that much for third parties? I think while it's a requirement, it doesn't really help much in the face of stronger competition (I don't think Cloud, Bayonetta and Joker would have gotten in if Nintendo history was such a strong point)

Personally I feel like the Spirit is somewhat tokenistic, an easy acknowledgement of a fan base without any actual hard work put in (kinda like Rayman). With Shovel Knight, I at least get the feeling of a deeper recognition.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I question the overall importance of "Nintendo history" when it comes to third-party Smash inclusions these days. Picks like Joker and Cloud really make it feel like a formality at best at this stage.

 

[NintendoKnight]

If I had to choose 14 more characters for future DLC (and couldn't promote Assist Trophies or create new Echo Fighters):

1. Geno
2. Banjo-Kazooie
3. Dante
4. Ryu Hayabusa
5. Master Chief
6. Decidueye
(No particular order after these first 6)
7. Doom Slayer
8. Phoenix Wright
9. Monster Hunter
10. Sora
11. Marina Liteyears
12. Rayman
13. Sub-Zero
14. Cranky Kong

Also, in regards to having Nintendo History, Cloud technically appeared on Nintendo consoles before being playable in Smash: Gameboy Advance, DS, and 3DS to name three systems. He technically had more representation on Nintendo consoles when he joined Smash than Lucas or Ness did when they joined Smash.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I was a definite believer in the Grinch leak, but was prepared for it to be wrong, so I didn't get burned by its disconfirmation.

On a different note, however, I was confused by one major thing: it was in regards to the matter of that Gundam-thing model Sakurai bought to get access to the rifle it came with in order to use said rifle for his "current project", with we all know now was Smash. The Grinch leak showed that Mach Rider would've been the recipient of that rifle purchase, but with the Grinch leak being fake... the heck did Sakurai use that model rifle for?!

Nobody knows. I thought it could be a redesign for the super scope 6, but stupid me, I should've realized its design would never change. Yeah, we have no clue, and nobody in the base roster uses a gun like that... my guess is we'll just have to wait.

If you guys could choose a final 14 characters to add to the roster, who would they be?

1. Isaac (They've been through it the worst and deserve it first.)
2. Geno
3. Banjo & Kazooie
4. Masked Man (We need him for another Smash Kingdom reunion with Ridley, Mega Man, and Geno.)
5. Sora
6. Master Chief
7. Arbiter/Thel 'Vadam
8. 2B
9. Duke Nukem
10. Erdrick
11. Waluigi
12. Crash Bandicoot
13. Mallow
14. Scorpion