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Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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...That's actually ****ing dumb. Your problem is that the most profitable video game franchise gets 2 characters. And you want to cut the villain, who is currently the only villain added in the game instead of Rosalina, one of many female newcomers added to the game.
The roster isn't decided by who would be the most profitable though, once again, it's supposedly a celebration of nintendo according to Sakurai and yet so many franchises didn't get reps

Rosalina is more popular and being female is more important than being a villain, how many people playing this game are villains compared to females
 

Cutie Gwen

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The roster isn't decided by who would be the most profitable though, once again, it's supposedly a celebration of nintendo according to Sakurai and yet so many franchises didn't get reps

Rosalina is more popular and being female is more important than being a villain, how many people playing this game are villains compared to females
If it's 'a celebration of Nintendo' according to the person who made the roster that didn't represent these franchises, then you should probably realise it doesn't add up.

lol I can see right through your bias here. Smash fans want more villains and more females, you think it's completely okay to cut the one villain, but not the female because of that. By that logic, everyone asking for villains are villains themselves and we shouldn't have the likes of Bowser in the game to begin with
 

WeirdChillFever

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The roster isn't decided by who would be the most profitable though, once again, it's supposedly a celebration of nintendo according to Sakurai and yet so many franchises didn't get reps

Rosalina is more popular and being female is more important than being a villain, how many people playing this game are villains compared to females
Bowser Jr's and Koopaling's popularity outdoes Rosa's by far.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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If it's 'a celebration of Nintendo' according to the person who made the roster that didn't represent these franchises, then you should probably realise it doesn't add up.

lol I can see right through your bias here. Smash fans want more villains and more females, you think it's completely okay to cut the one villain, but not the female because of that. By that logic, everyone asking for villains are villains themselves and we shouldn't have the likes of Bowser in the game to begin with
Thanks for twisting my words, I'm just saying that adding female characters is more important as it represents a part of the playerbase rather than villains, adding females is very easily more important

Also, I'm suggesting they replace junior with a DIFFERENT VILLAIN, not cut a villain character outright
 
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Kalimdori

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If you were Sakurai how your roster will look like in SSB64 and SSBM and SSBB and SSB4? who would you cut? who would you add?
64: Replace :jigglypuff64: with :052:

Reasoning: I feel Meowth is the better character to add

Melee: Forget :sheikmelee: and spend the time to give :ganondorfmelee: a unique moveset, maybe replace :drmario:

Reasoning: Having Ganondorf be a fully fledged character is more important to me then adding Sheik, and character variations bug me. I understand Young Link/Toon Link, I agree with Sakurai's reasoning that both generations should be represented, but Dr. Mario feels unneeded. Replace him with Daisy or Wolf or Black Shadow or someone

Brawl: Replace :zerosuitsamus: with Ridley, have :warioc: take more inspiration from his other games, remove :squirtle: and :ivysaur: and replace them with :pt: (Having his own moveset that uses :squirtle::ivysaur: and other Pokemon) and :mewtwopm:

Reasoning: Ridley>ZSS, Project M Wario is best Wario and I wish the official Smash games would follow suit, and Pokemon really shouldn't be missing its protagonist as a playable character.

4: Remove :4wiifitm::rosalina::4palutena:, add Isaac, K. Rool, and Sceptile, make :4darkpit: a semi clone to compensate for Palutena's removal. Use DLC to add back in veterans and blow peoples minds (Basically what Sakurai's been doing)

Reasoning: Nobody would miss Wii Fit Trainer if he/she had never been added, I'd replace him/her with a character from a new series that people actually wanted (Isaac), K. Rool is overdue and of all characters Rosalina is the easiest for me to justify cutting, Kid Icarus has the same number of games as Earthbound, I'd give them a similar situation with characters. Third slot could have gone to multiple characters, I picked Sceptile over all others because i do believe it's important to have the fire/water/grass trinity in Smash, it's one of the most important parts of the Pokemon games.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Thanks for twisting my words, I'm just saying that adding female characters is more important as it represents a part of the playerbase rather than villains, adding females is very easily more important

Also, I'm suggesting they replace junior with a DIFFERENT VILLAIN, not cut a villain character outright
:rosalina::4palutena::4lucina::4robinf::4miif::4villagerf::4wiifit:
As a woman, I don't care if we had one of these less. 6 female characters instead of 7 is much better than cutting a popular villain. And before you argue 'Koopalings should count because you included alts', notice I didn't include Wendy and how if you cut Bowser Jr, you can't keep any of the Koopalings
 

Bowserlick

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If anything ZSS is throwing Metroid fans a bone.
"I couldn't make Ridley work so here's ZSS instead!"
If anything Zero Suit Samus is giving Metroid fans a boner.
I do not think there will be a Metroid character this time around. Maybe the next full-fledged game will have a worthy character.
 

Schnee117

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If anything Zero Suit Samus is giving Metroid fans a boner.
I do not think there will be a Metroid character this time around. Maybe the next full-fledged game will have a worthy character.
Or a better design for Ridley.
 

Kenith

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In the hypothetical scenario I could go back in time and alter Smash Bros. history, I wouldn't make too many changes.
However, I would:

Smash 64: Add :mewtwomelee:, in order to solidify him as a mainstay. Add Toad as a semi-clone.

Melee: Add :ganondorfmelee: as a unique character.

Brawl: Add
midnaiconsmall.png
. Add Ridley. (why don't we have a Ridley stock emote yet?)

Smash 4: Add Hawlucha.

In order to make this happen, here's a list of characters to, from higher priority to lowest:
:4greninja::4sheik::popo::squirtle::ivysaur::4feroy::4jigglypuff::younglinkmelee::pichumelee::4lucas::4bowserjr::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:

Anyone else I wouldn't touch.
 

Ura

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If you were Sakurai how your roster will look like in SSB64 and SSBM and SSBB and SSB4? who would you cut? who would you add?
64: I would have :marthmelee:in over :samus64:because FE was still hot at the time. Would also have :pit:in over :luigi64:as the former would have been a retro rep at the time. Both :samus64: and :luigi64: would be Melee newcomers.

Melee: :luigimelee::samusmelee: are newcomers in this game as I mentioned before. The first thing I would want is for this game to have a late-2002 release instead of a late-2001 given how Sakurai had to kill himself physically to the game done and that the dev time was cut short. Doing that would get :snake:and:sonic:in the game not to mention clones such as :drmario::falcomelee::younglinkmelee::pichumelee::roymelee:would get more dev time to be semi-clones potentially. :ganondorfmelee:could have extra dev time to not be a Falcon clone and be his own unique character which Smash Bros fans have really wanted for a long time.

Brawl: :mewtwopm::roypm:and even :drmario::younglinkmelee::pichumelee: aren't getting cut. Period. I don't care if the game has to get delayed to the Summer but the cut 5 from Melee are staying in the roster. :toonlink:won't replace :younglinkmelee: and would instead be an alt for the later. Would also add Isaac and Andy in to the game as both GS and AW were hot during Brawl's dev time. To accommodate for the 2, I would cut :rob:because :gw:is already the retro rep of Smash Bros. If anything, :rob:can be added to the following game.

Sm4sH: Nothing I would want to change really. Except for the fact that I would cut :4wiifit:for another Nintendo character that deserves to be in the game. Maybe this is when:4rob:gets to be included in Smash Bros.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Except for the fact that I would cut :4wiifit:for another Nintendo character that deserves to be in the game.
Because something that appeals to casual gamers from a absurdly successful franchise isn't deserving. Kay. This is why the 'who would you cut' **** is awful. Every character is deserving of their spot. Even Roy, despite his debut game being Smash
 
D

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Don't we have a lot of females though Peach, Zelda, Shiek, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Lucina, Samus, Zero Suit Samus. 8 in total so we do have a good amount but more would be good, it ether has to be Dixie King it Krystal, the only Metroid chracter worthy of joining in my book is Ridley but that's just me.
 

Schnee117

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Don't we have a lot of females though Peach, Zelda, Shiek, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Lucina, Samus, Zero Suit Samus. 8 in total so we do have a good amount but more would be good, it ether has to be Dixie King it Krystal, the only Metroid chracter worthy of joining in my book is Ridley but that's just me.
There's also Female Robin, Female Miis, Female Villager and Wendy. You can make a case for Jigglypuff as well.
 

Ura

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Because something that appeals to casual gamers from a absurdly successful franchise isn't deserving. Kay. This is why the 'who would you cut' **** is awful. Every character is deserving of their spot. Even Roy, despite his debut game being Smash
I'm not asking you to like my opinion. Take a deep breath.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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Jr is my favorite Nintendo villain, but I'm disappointed by the way he was implemented. The only change I really want to happen to the Smash 4 roster is changing Jr so he's actually Jr, and not just the clown cart with an interchangeable, cosmetic koopa. Clown Cart would've been a fun final Smash for him. He could drop bombs and mecha koopas and stuff all over. But yeah, I would buy revamped Bowser Jr DLC.
 
D

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So 14 in total so yeah we got a lot, but I would like Dixie and Krystal added too, and back to my point about Metroid I didn't mean that as to say characters like Slyix or anyone shouldn't be in their great, Ridley should just b number one on that list to be added.
 
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Sceptile4Smash

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If you were Sakurai how your roster will look like in SSB64 and SSBM and SSBB and SSB4? who would you cut? who would you add?
I wouldn't cut anybody. However, If I were Sakurai, I'd make some heavy changes to the roster. Adding more characters and make some changes to current ones.
:ganondorfmelee:: Giving this man a unique moveset, he is definitely an important character in the LoZ series and deserves to be represented well. I would keep force choke (Side B) though
:drmario:: Give the Doc a moveset that utilizes the Viruses in his game. :4pacman: uses the Ghosts in his moveset, why not Doc with the viruses?
Make :zeldamelee: and :sheikmelee: separate characters from the start.
:younglinkmelee:: Give him a moveset revolving around the masks he uses in MM.
:sonic:: Even though I main Sonic, I cant help but feel that his moveset is lazy, 7 of his moves turn him to a ball. I would give Sonic some moves from Sonic Battle.
Same with :sheilda:, I would make :zerosuitsamus: and :samus2: separate characters from the start.
:toonlink:: Alter his moveset a bit.
Add :mewtwopm: and :roypm: in the official game.
:4darkpit:: Believe it or not, Dark Pit can indeed have a totally unique moveset, I never played Uprising but people say Dark Pit had a lot of potential.
:4lucina:: Same with :4tlink:, alter her moves a bit.
Not make the 3DS version so :popo: can be in along with Chorus Kids. I would also add a lot more characters. Sceptile, Bandana Dee, Rayman, K.rool, Zoroark, Shadow, Isaac, etc.

And most importantly, never cut any veterans from past Smash games to future Smash games. Each character has fans, I feel like cutting veterans is a backstab to their fans.
 
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Kalimdori

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I'm not asking you to say anyone needs to be cut either. I even said and meant Roy deserves his role and my giant lady hate boner for the guy is pretty wellknown by some members
How rude

You didn't ask the question, somebody else did. It's fine to state that you disagree, but you don't have the power to cut off an interesting conversation topic just because you dislike the subject.
 

WaddleKing

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Jr is my favorite Nintendo villain, but I'm disappointed by the way he was implemented. The only change I really want to happen to the Smash 4 roster is changing Jr so he's actually Jr, and not just the clown cart with an interchangeable, cosmetic koopa. Clown Cart would've been a fun final Smash for him. He could drop bombs and mecha koopas and stuff all over. But yeah, I would buy revamped Bowser Jr DLC.
I kind of agree, but i also like the moveset Jr. currently has. I think they should at the very least give him 4/5 pallete swaps of his own and have him use his paintbrush in more than just his final smash. I mean if Little Mac can have 16 alts why can't Jr. have 12/11? Or Wario have 10? ( His two missing ones from his classic outfit in Brawl, the other ones from his WarioWare outfit got merged together so no problem )
 
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You have to remember, if we had been directors thigns would have automatically been vastly different. Few of us would have even had WFT even cross our minds so she would have been "cut" simply from never being considered.

Same would go for quite a few other characters. A lot of characters we have only seem logical because they are already here.
 

Cutie Gwen

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How rude

You didn't ask the question, somebody else did. It's fine to state that you disagree, but you don't have the power to cut off an interesting conversation topic just because you dislike the subject.
I must have hit ignore on the person who asked the question as I didn't see a question. Not to mention it just baffles me how stupid some of the reasoning is. 'wft isn't deserving enough' despite the franchise being one of Nintendo's best selling IP of the last generation is a highlight
 

Kenith

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Honestly though, at the end of the day Smash 4's roster is pretty ****ing amazing. I wouldn't touch it, just add to it.
And it doesn't help that I don't really fall under the tropes of any typical Smash fans.

I get hyped for clones, specifically :4lucina: and :4tlink:.
I like pretty much every character, and some of the more unorthodox picks (:4wiifit:,:4duckhunt:,:4rob:) are some of my favorites conceptually.

I don't feel entitled to any character that isn't in yet. I don't think any of my wanted characters "deserve" to get in, I'd just like to see them. The only exception is characters I support because I feel they should get in, but that's very rare.

So I guess it makes sense I don't get why people constantly talk about how they'd direct Smash Bros. differently from Mr. Sakurai.
I don't agree with all his decisions but he almost always finds a way to make something crazy work.

You have to remember, if we had been directors thigns would have automatically been vastly different. Few of us would have even had WFT even cross our minds so she would have been "cut" simply from never being considered.

Same would go for quite a few other characters. A lot of characters we have only seem logical because they are already here.
I was working under the assumption everyone went back in time instead of simply having been in Sakurai's place naturally.
 
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(Ignoring development time)

64: Fine

Melee: Cut Sheik, Falcondorf, Young Link, Pichu and Dr. Mario, add Impa, Ganondo (unique)f, Gengar (bias), King K. Rool and Ridley.

Brawl: Keep all characters from Melee, cut ZSS, add Dixie Kong, make PT's Pokemon separate characters.

SSB4: Keep all characters from Brawl, cut the clones, WFT and Mii Fighters, add Bandana Dee, Captain Toad, Isaac, Ganon, Kamek, Magolor and Inkling.

I might do another one, with development time taken into account.
 

Talpr1

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I don't really think any woman here plays as female characters just because they're female. I'm Italian, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to play as Mario or Luigi.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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I don't really think any woman here plays as female characters just because they're female. I'm Italian, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to play as Mario or Luigi.
And not all men play as men just because they're male, equal representation is still important regardless
 

Sceptile4Smash

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64: Replace :jigglypuff64: with :052:

Reasoning: I feel Meowth is the better character to add

Melee: Forget :sheikmelee: and spend the time to give :ganondorfmelee: a unique moveset, maybe replace :drmario:

Reasoning: Having Ganondorf be a fully fledged character is more important to me then adding Sheik, and character variations bug me. I understand Young Link/Toon Link, I agree with Sakurai's reasoning that both generations should be represented, but Dr. Mario feels unneeded. Replace him with Daisy or Wolf or Black Shadow or someone

Brawl: Replace :zerosuitsamus: with Ridley, have :warioc: take more inspiration from his other games, remove :squirtle: and :ivysaur: and replace them with :pt: (Having his own moveset that uses :squirtle::ivysaur: and other Pokemon) and :mewtwopm:

Reasoning: Ridley>ZSS, Project M Wario is best Wario and I wish the official Smash games would follow suit, and Pokemon really shouldn't be missing its protagonist as a playable character.

4: Remove :4wiifitm::rosalina::4palutena:, add Isaac, K. Rool, and Sceptile, make :4darkpit: a semi clone to compensate for Palutena's removal. Use DLC to add back in veterans and blow peoples minds (Basically what Sakurai's been doing)

Reasoning: Nobody would miss Wii Fit Trainer if he/she had never been added, I'd replace him/her with a character from a new series that people actually wanted (Isaac), K. Rool is overdue and of all characters Rosalina is the easiest for me to justify cutting, Kid Icarus has the same number of games as Earthbound, I'd give them a similar situation with characters. Third slot could have gone to multiple characters, I picked Sceptile over all others because i do believe it's important to have the fire/water/grass trinity in Smash, it's one of the most important parts of the Pokemon games.
Honestly, why cut ZSS when we can have all 3? Metroid deserves more.
 

Kenith

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And not all men play as men just because they're male, equal representation is still important regardless
Character gender could not be less relevant to a crossover fighting game.
This is exemplified by Lucina, a female character, who has the same exact moveset as Marth, a male character.

Smash Bros. has a mostly male roster because the characters Sakurai chose from Nintendo's pantheon of characters are usually male.
There's no point in adding a bunch of female newcomers that aren't particularly good additions just to even a score that didn't exist in the first place.
 

Schnee117

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And not all men play as men just because they're male, equal representation is still important regardless
No it's not. Especially if it would sacrifice the overall quality of the game.
I get Smash to fight as characters, not worry about how there are more males than females on the roster.
 

Kalimdori

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Honestly, why cut ZSS when we can have all 3? Metroid deserves more.
Because Metroid is a game of isolation and exploration (Well, ignoring Other M), past Samus and Ridley no other character really compares. Arguably next in line would be Dark Samus, and even then that's a pretty big drop from Samus and Ridley.
 

Kenith

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FYI, this is coming from someone who is an absolute prick when it comes to female representation in games. I constantly point out objectification and misogyny in games even it is extremely minor.

Smash Bros. isn't one of those places.

The female playable representation in Smash Bros. grew by 6 in Smash 4. That's as many as previous games had total. Why isn't this enough?
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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If equal representation is that important the male/female ratio would be 50/50
It's only become important recently though, hence why they've clearly made a concious effort to boost the amount of females in the roster

No it's not. Especially if it would sacrifice the overall quality of the game.
I get Smash to fight as characters, not worry about how there are more males than females on the roster.
How is adding more female characters "sacrificing the quality of the game"?

FYI, this is coming from someone who is an absolute prick when it comes to female representation in games. I constantly point out objectification and misogyny in games even it is extremely minor.

Smash Bros. isn't one of those places.

The female playable representation in Smash Bros. grew by 6 in Smash 4. That's as many as previous games had total. Why is this not enough?
Because it's still like less than 1/5th of the roster
 
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Cutie Gwen

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It's only become important recently though, hence why they've clearly made a concious effort to boost the amount of females in the roster

How is adding more female characters "sacrificing the quality of the game"?
Most of the female characters added were popular requests, not to mention your statement is merely speculation of yours. Unless you can grab an article in which Sakurai says this is important

Regi means that if you're going to arbitrarily put in characters based on their gender, the quality will go down. As a woman, I can't help but agree
 

Schnee117

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How is adding more female characters "sacrificing the quality of the game"?

Because it's still like less than 1/5th of the roster
How?
Because there really aren't that many fighters to choose from that are female without grasping for straws (ie. Pokemon and minor characters). Smash would lose the "All-Star" feeling as a result.

When I last checked 13 was higher than 11.2 (One fitfh of the roster if we include Cloud. It'd still be higher without him)
 
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Sceptile4Smash

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And not all men play as men just because they're male, equal representation is still important regardless
The reason why we have more male's in Smash is because Nintendo simply has a lot more male characters than female characters. Trying to represent both fairly is almost impossible.

I don't really think any woman here plays as female characters just because they're female. I'm Italian, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to play as Mario or Luigi.
Armada mains :peachmelee:
ZeRo mains :4sheik:
Nairo mains :4zss:
You get the picture.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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How?
Because there really aren't that many fighters to choose from that are female without grasping for straws (ie. Pokemon and minor characters). Smash would lose the "All-Star" feeling as a result.

When I last checked 13 was higher than 11.2 (One fitfh of the roster if we include Cloud. It'd still be higher without him)
There are very few "all-stars" in the first place, the significant ones are all in Smash already.

The reason why we have more male's in Smash is because Nintendo simply has a lot more male characters than female characters. Trying to represent both fairly is almost impossible.


Armada mains :peachmelee:
ZeRo mains :4sheik:
Nairo mains :4zss:
You get the picture.
I'm not saying it should be entirely fair, I'm saying there should be more than what there currently is, there's still a fair few great options for female candidates that have yet to be added
 
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