Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[JaidynReiman]

Why not? They added three returning characters before the newcomer. They're obviously easier to make and make a quick buck (except maybe Mewtwo).
If I had to guess, the next pack will be: Wolf, another returning character (probably a Pokémon) and Balloon Fighter. I say Balloon Fighter because it's a nice touch since Iwata's passing, and they could implement it in somehow. I don't think it would be cynical or anything, just a pretty nice tribute. I think Sakurai pushed for something like this knowing the guy.

They added three of the most wanted veterans back. The remaining ones people want for the most part are Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers. Two veterans can happen if they secured the rights to Snake, otherwise, they'll focus on characters people would rather want to buy.

The other problem is, they already produced three veterans. Yes, you see this as a plus, but its a negative. The problem is that we're saturated with veterans now. People want to see newcomers, and the thing is, if Sakurai was really focused on veterans so much because they were "easy," Wolf would've been released months ago already. He had plenty of time to release more veterans if he wanted to.


Also, Iwata passed in July. There's no way Sakurai could finish Balloon Fighter in that time. Any new character would've had to have been started roughly around the time Mewtwo released (which is probably when Ryu, Roy, and Lucas were finished as well, if not a tad bit later than that). Balloon Fighter is possible, but he'd have to come in February.

If the Wolf DLC to promote Star Fox Zero is a thing, do you guys think they will stick to the plans and release him on november or they will delay him as Star Fox was also delayed?

I think they'll time Wolf's Amiibo to come out alongside Star Fox Zero, not Wolf himself. However, at the same time, they could've easily had Wolf released some time ago, so clearly they're not pushing that hard to get Wolf out. Dunno whether they want him to release with SF Zero or not, but if anything, Sakurai probably didn't want to make Wolf, and later changed his mind due to people pushing to get Wolf back (especially through the ballot).

Wolf would've been fine as a stopgap if released with one of the prior two updates, but at this point they clearly have other plans, one possibility being they want him to release alongside other newcomers instead.

Mewtwo and Roy were made by scratch. Only Brawl veterans are easier to make, and the only one left that's not Konami or impossible because of technical issues is Wolf

Roy being an easy clone could've been an argument, but they put a lot of effort into updating him as well. Which is weird because Mewtwo was brought back exactly the same (with some thinking he might even be worse due to his weight).

Mewtwo and Roy were made by scratch. Only Brawl veterans are easier to make, and the only one left that's not Konami or impossible because of technical issues is Wolf

There is Ivysaur and Squirtle, but as evidenced by your statement they're easily forgotten and there's not much demand for them. Plus they would have to have more effort put into them so they'd work effectively solo, so they're not easy additions anyway. They were balanced around each other and Charizard, but solo they'd have to be balanced with every character, and probably receive significant overhauls to make them effective solo. Considering there's both not much demand (there is SOME) and they've got a lot of effort to make, they're not likely to come back (especially since we've already got a Pokemon DLC character, and had another new Pokemon character in the game by default).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They added three of the most wanted veterans back. The remaining ones people want for the most part are Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers. Two veterans can happen if they secured the rights to Snake, otherwise, they'll focus on characters people would rather want to buy.

The other problem is, they already produced three veterans. Yes, you see this as a plus, but its a negative. The problem is that we're saturated with veterans now. People want to see newcomers, and the thing is, if Sakurai was really focused on veterans so much because they were "easy," Wolf would've been released months ago already. He had plenty of time to release more veterans if he wanted to.


Also, Iwata passed in July. There's no way Sakurai could finish Balloon Fighter in that time. Any new character would've had to have been started roughly around the time Mewtwo released (which is probably when Ryu, Roy, and Lucas were finished as well, if not a tad bit later than that). Balloon Fighter is possible, but he'd have to come in February.



I think they'll time Wolf's Amiibo to come out alongside Star Fox Zero, not Wolf himself. However, at the same time, they could've easily had Wolf released some time ago, so clearly they're not pushing that hard to get Wolf out. Dunno whether they want him to release with SF Zero or not, but if anything, Sakurai probably didn't want to make Wolf, and later changed his mind due to people pushing to get Wolf back (especially through the ballot).

Wolf would've been fine as a stopgap if released with one of the prior two updates, but at this point they clearly have other plans, one possibility being they want him to release alongside other newcomers instead.



Roy being an easy clone could've been an argument, but they put a lot of effort into updating him as well. Which is weird because Mewtwo was brought back exactly the same (with some thinking he might even be worse due to his weight).

Mewtwo fans kept saying 'He was sooo fun to play as!' and Sakurai emphasized the glass cannon thing. He needs to remember why it's a cannon though

 

[IndigoSSB]

- Inklings. For some reason I think they're going to hold off on them for the next Smash Bros. on NX, which is coming sooner than we think imho (maybe 2018). Inklings would definitely push the next installment.

I won't dispute the Inkling part since you're not the first one to say that (or the 2nd, or the 3rd, or even the 75th lol). However, a sequel in a little over two years is extremely optimistic considering how spaced out the other games were (six to seven years, double the suggested time frame).

TBH I don't get why everybody talks like it's a given that we'll get a sequel for sure, it's still in the balance imo. This game will have potentially up to 60 characters once the DLC hype is finished. Considering how much content they've given us it will be a monumental task to improve on that like every other sequel has.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I won't dispute the Inkling part since you're not the first one to say that (or the 2nd, or the 3rd, or even the 75th lol). However, a sequel in a little over two years is extremely optimistic considering how spaced out the other games were (six to seven years, double the suggested time frame).

TBH I don't get why everybody talks like it's a given that we'll get a sequel for sure, it's still in the balance imo. This game will have potentially up to 60 characters once the DLC hype is finished. Considering how much content they've given us it will be a monumental task to improve on that like every other sequel has.

We're definitely getting Smash 5 that's out of the question. How much they'll improve, who knows, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people thought Brawl got to the limit back then too.

 

[Burruni]

Mewtwo and Roy were made by scratch. Only Brawl veterans are easier to make, and the only one left that's not Konami or impossible because of technical issues is Wolf

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As much as I want Squirtle back, they lack the popularity tbh

 

[Burruni]

As much as I want Squirtle back, they lack the popularity tbh

Oh trust me I'm in the same boat. Just poking at your wording. "...and the only one left that's not Konami or impossible because of technical issues is Wolf."

Also, this is the second biggest drought of character news we've had for the biggest life span of the game. The first being the gap from November to April between announcements of and .

It's also the third biggest drought in newcomer reveals. Actually, even longer than - was the time between E3 2013 and 's reveal that December.

Just some fun facts.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Hopefully the next newcomer won't be spoiled by leaks. It's a matter of a couple of weeks at most anyway imho.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

The information is taking so long to get out, it's as if they're waiting for someone to leak it to pressure them into releasing it lol. They've gotten so used to that happening that they feel like they might as well make people work for it.

Sometimes I wonder if Roy and Ryu were released so quickly because they got leaked.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh trust me I'm in the same boat. Just poking at your wording. "...and the only one left that's not Konami or impossible because of technical issues is Wolf."

Also, this is the second biggest drought of character news we've had for the biggest life span of the game. The first being the gap from November to April between announcements of and .

It's also the third biggest drought in newcomer reveals. Actually, even longer than - was the time between E3 2013 and 's reveal that December.

Just some fun facts.

You and I, good Sir, have a very strong difference of opinion on what is "fun."

Spoiler

My fun fact, is that I always think of you as "Bunny." I think I will go look up what your name means, actually, because I'm getting the feeling it's actually more like a demon creature (maybe I'm just thinking Bunyip) or mystical guardian (like a Shisa!).

 

[mario123007]

I simply think there will be an indie & a 3rd party character added in. Just a gut feeling.

So am I...

 

[ErenJager]

So am I...

My gut tells me.... Rodea...

 

[XbusterKosmos]

Sorry boys about not providing a link before

http://en.yibada.com/articles/79086...vel-knight-out-3-new-characters-stages-in.htm

 

[LIQUID12A]

Sorry boys about not providing a link before

http://en.yibada.com/articles/79086...vel-knight-out-3-new-characters-stages-in.htm

You know these articles are hilariously unreliable, right? The tweets I can believe, but these sites don't even focus on gaming.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sorry boys about not providing a link before

http://en.yibada.com/articles/79086...vel-knight-out-3-new-characters-stages-in.htm

Er...They aren't YCG nor Nintendo...If anything, they are just reporting on extra content and the fact the deadline for the rumor passed

 

[XbusterKosmos]

You know these articles are hilariously unreliable, right?

Probably just thought I would share it at least

 

[pupNapoleon]

I've yet to see an explanation as to what makes Shovel Knight a good or viable character for Smash, other than being generally "Cool" to a select group of people...and "aesthetic," if that ever truly counted for anything.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've yet to see an explanation as to what makes Shovel Knight a good or viable character for Smash, other than being generally "Cool" to a select group of people...and "aesthetic," if that ever truly counted for anything.

'good and viable' in what sense? First thought was competitive tbh

 

[pupNapoleon]

'good and viable' in what sense? First thought was competitive tbh

Why s/he is a good choice, other than being cool to a group of people, which nearly every character with a fanbase has going for it.
(I will accept the push from its developers, but again, that is something many other characters also have going for them).
The amiibo doesnt say much, considering its funding does not source from Nintendo.
The iconography is simply not there (at this time, and let us not predict the future).
The character does not inherently seem to lend itself to any clearly unique moveset (which does not mean it wold not have one, just that it's not particularly a remarkable trait for it).


I guess, what does this character have going for it?
I've posed this question in the Shovel Knight thread, and have not gotten any responses that seem to present a logical conclusion as to why s/he is the choice of choices.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why s/he is a good choice, other than being cool to a group of people, which nearly every character with a fanbase has going for it.
(I will accept the push from its developers, but again, that is something many other characters also have going for them).
The amiibo doesnt say much, considering they are funding it themselves.
The iconography is simply not there (at this time, and let us not predict the future).
The character does not inherently seem to lend itself to any clearly unique moveset (which does not mean it wold not have one, just that it's not particularly a remarkable trait for it).


I guess, what this character have going for it?
I've posed this question in the Shovel Knight thread, and have not gotten any responses that seem to present a logical conclusion as to why he is the choice of choices.

Shovel Knight's an Indie icon, so there's that. I can't think of many character who get about 14 game appearances in a single year

 

[pupNapoleon]

Shovel Knight's an Indie icon, so there's that. I can't think of many character who get about 14 game appearances in a single year

I'll count that as many appearances within a year... which has merit.
Whether or not that makes him an icon really depends on the person, particularly in regard to gaming history.
All that really seems to show me, is that the developers are really pushing the character, and apparently have a lot of money to fund his projects (like Ariana Grande).
Actually... I'm pretty fond of that comparison.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'll count that as many appearances within a year... which has merit.
Whether or not that makes him an icon really depends on the person, particularly in regard to gaming history.
All that really seems to show me, is that the developers are really pushing the character, and apparently have a lot of money to fund his projects (like Ariana Grande).
Actually... I'm pretty fond of that comparison.

He IS an icon when talking about Indie characters. YCG is a small company, they don't have that much, it's only got 5 peeps iirc

 

[pupNapoleon]

He IS an icon when talking about Indie characters.

...that is an opinion.

*regarding the context of iconic as an adjective

 

[Cutie Gwen]

...that is your opinion.

Shovel Knight is one of the most wellknown Indie characters. Therefore, he's an Icon among them. Not an opinion. However, I feel like you're mixing up 'indie icon' and 'gaming icon'

 

[pupNapoleon]

Shovel Knight is one of the most wellknown Indie characters. Therefore, he's an Icon among them. Not an opinion. However, I feel like you're mixing up 'indie icon' and 'gaming icon'

He is one receiving a large amount of press currently. It is an individual's interpretation as to whether or not his makes him a symbol of the entire field.

We are also discussing independent games, you are making a distinction that is not there; if anything, a subgenre of gaming icon would be independent game icon, which still implies he has to be a gaming icon in the first place.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He is one receiving a large amount of press currently. It is an individual's interpretation as to whether or not his makes him a symbol of the entire field.

We are also discussing independent games, you are making a distinction that is not there; if anything, a subgenre of gaming icon would be independent game icon, which still implies he has to be a gaming icon in the first place.

If you only look at indies, he's pretty much king of the hill. However, outside of indies, he's a very minor character, not even breaking a million sales iirc despite the success

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm not sure what makes "King of the indie hill," any more than an opinion*, Anna, so I will leave the topic at that.

*Other than the fact of many appearances within one year, which I think is a questionable standard without explanation.

EDIT: Mario Tennis new trailer: Kamek, Dry Bowser, Bowser Jr (forever stuck in the Klown Kar now)
AND BOO!!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not sure what makes "King of the indie hill," any more than an opinion*, Anna, so I will leave the topic at that.

*Other than the fact of many appearances within one year, which I think is a questionable standard without explanation.

When people think Indie character, the 5 most wellknown examples are Meat Boy, Quote, Shantae, Commander Video and Shovel Knight

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

i think the "so long" means they will only make DLC until they run out of the gold ideas. Nintendo has been making tons of money with that, and Sakurai's word means nothing now since almost everything he said turned out to be wrong at the end, like Pac-Man not being in Smash to not have too much third party, Ryu not having a chance because he didn't want characters from fighting games and Smash not having DLC content.

I feel bad for Sakurai in this sense. He's completely lost control of the game.

 

[Bowserlick]

Dixie Kong Moveset

Dixie Kong is a more defensive oriented grappler. She cannot run as fast as DK or Diddy or jump as high as the boys, both she has two projectiles, long ranged hair attacks, and other means of approaching rather than a full on sprint. Her neutral (A) gives her a boost of air speed as she twirls her hair, able-ling her to navigate the skies. Her Up B doubles as a grab.

Spoiler

Ground Attacks
(A) Butt Bounce - Pivots her hips forward to deliver a hit with her butt. Keeps opponents away with good knockback.

Dash (A) Pony Twirl – Just like in Donkey Kong 2, she propels herself forward while spinning her hair.

Tilt (A) Launch Kick - Supports her body with a one hand, as she kicks forward with both feet and then slinks back into a standing position.

Crouch: Dixie lowers herself on all fours with her head tilted and her long ponytail laying on the floor trailing behind her body. She can crawl.

Down (A) Ponytail Sweep - Swishes her pony tail forward low on the floor. The tip pushes away, the middle pops the enemy, and the base can trip if hit just right.

Up (A) Pony Flip - Supports her body by curving her ponytail into a flexible ‘S’, and performs a flip up and over her hair with one leg extra extended. A big hit box that connects all around her.

Up Smash Spring Kick - Looks at screen and propels herself upwards with her ponytail, coiled like a spring. She performs an upside down kick with both her legs at the apex and then returns to the floor.

Down Smash Pony Slap -Jolts her neck to the side and slaps her ponytail hard against the floor behind her, then jolts her neck to the other side slapping the floor once more with her ponytail. Good clear move and could KO at higher percentages

Forward Smash Batters Up - Spins and swings her ponytail forwards like a bat. The knockback is stronger at the base.

Aerial Attacks
Forward Aerial: Leans back and does a succession of bicycle kicks (five total kicks, last hits the hardest)

Down Aerial: Looks at screen and slaps downward with both open palms, which leads into a somersault and another double open palm slap.

Up Aerial: Throws her hair out in a quick fan-like motion above her. The strongest part is the middle of the animation when the ponytail is directly above her. Good range.

Back Aerial: Locks hands together forming a hammerfist and flips backwards smashing her interlocked hands on the opponent's head. Hits down and away.

Neutral Aerial: A quick revolving spin that hits with her hair. Gives her extra air speed during the attack to move left or right. This allows her to replicate her slow descent ability in the DK games.

Special Attacks
(B) Gumball Popgun – Press of (B) shoots a high bouncing gumball that has low stun and low damage. Holding B will cause the gumball to bounce higher and have higher stun.

If the max charge is reach, Dixie unloads a mass of gumballs in front of her on the floor in a puddle. If anyone walks or runs over the gumballs, they will trip and scatter the gumballs off the screen.

Toward (B) Hair-propulsion – Dixie Kong’s hair whirls behind her like a fan, propelling her forwards the distance of Fox’s illusion and leaving a jet stream behind her that could push back.

A press of any button, will have Dixie Kong perform a punch and end the animation. The punch is strongest when used at the last moment and weakest when used right away. Dixie goes into free fall afterwards.


Down (B) Barrel Roll – A barrel puffs into existence below Dixie. She runs in place on top of the barrel as it shoots forward. Dixie can jump off the barrel, however the barrel does more damage to the opponent if Dixie is on top.

If used in air, the Dixie will descend downwards at a 45 degree angle while running on top of her barrel. The barrel will either:

1) Bounce once and then roll on the floor if the move is used if Dixie has not used any jumps.

2) Bounce once and then crash onto the floor causing splash damage if Dixie has used one jump.

3) Crash onto the floor with greater knockback to an enemy if Dixie has used two jumps.


Up (B) Hair-copter – Dixie does a powerful twirl and then shoots up with her hair spinning like a helicopter blade. She rises, with her hair performing multiple hits before she free falls.

However, the initial twirl is a grab. If an opponent is hit, the end of her ponytail wraps around them and her spin attacks hit harder against other enemies as she rises. At her peak ascent she throws the opponent horizontally behind her.

Throws
Dixie reaches out with her hands.

(A) Head bang – Performs an ongoing head bang as if in a metal concert, smashing her head into her opponent.


Forward Throw – Her forward throw is similar to DK’s cargo throw. She picks her enemy up off the ground and above her head just like she holds barrels in the DK games. She then could walk and jump and throw her opponent is any cardinal direction.

Back Throw – Turns around and tosses the enemy away with both hands. A weak toss.

Down Throw – Grabs her enemy’s legs with her hair and smashes them behind her on the floor and then in front of her, which pops them up. Does very good damage.

Up Throw – Grabs her enemy’s legs with her hair and tosses them high above her head.

 

[CodeBlue_]

The character does not inherently seem to lend itself to any clearly unique moveset (which does not mean it wold not have one, just that it's not particularly a remarkable trait for it).

This is kind of an interesting point you bring up. Does a character need a clearly "unique" trait to be a viable character for inclusion?

We know Sakurai has very distinct play styles for certain characters (Mario is an all-rounder, Zamus is what Sakurai calls a martial artist (?); Marth is a fencing character, Ike is a burly swordsman, etc.) but a lot of distinct traits aren't very clear, especially in the newer games.

- Is he a zoning character? He has a lot of stuff but it seems he in a similar realm as: or or . Is he unique for not having a sword or not having 90% of moves being projectiles?

Speaking of - Is the tome limit an interesting trait? He appears to be like another slow projectile character with a sword () outside of this. I guess the levin sword is a unique mechanic...but is that really a selling point?

- Another projectile character... the can is cool and the homage to Wild Gunmen is a nice idea but his only distinctive "trait" is being a bipedal fighter. And I'm certain wasn't added in Brawl for that niche.

- Flare blitz has an interesting mechanic, but Charizard as a whole doesn't have any trait that is primarily remarkable. Zard doesn't really use a lot of fire attacks or flying attacks outside his final smash. So even his unique trait as a fire/fliyng pokemon isn't well shown.

- Isn't he supposed to represent the look and feel of his games? I don't think he has a distinct trait in mind outside of this. Practically every character imaginable can do that or could fill into the "unique trait" category. even shares this trait.

I feel G&W's description defines what I feel is missing from a lot of people's definition of a "unique" moveset. A moveset does not have to have a specific gimmick or niche that is "unique" or "fresh" it can just emulate the feel of the games a character heils from. Most Main characters of series (ex. Mario, Kirby, Little Mac, Donkey Kong) emulate the series they come from pretty well, and that itself makes them a good character.

This makes character like the Miis and the Pokemon's movesets a little harder to define as "unique" or not...but there are probably other reasons those characters are in anyway.

 

[Joseppo]

One think I hope from the DLC newcomers (please, don't let it only be veterans) is that they come with some good music with them. I know the character itself is far more important, but I do really care about soundtracks in video games (or soundtracks in general). So I'm really concerned about this. What tracks would you like to be added to the game with DLC (even if they aren't connected with your most wanted)?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One think I hope from the DLC newcomers (please, don't let it only be veterans)

dunno about music tbh

 

[LIQUID12A]

Speaking of - Is the tome limit an interesting trait? He appears to be like another slow projectile character with a sword () outside of this. I guess the levin sword is a unique mechanic...but is that really a selling point?

When you consider that your projectiles can run out for brief periods and your sword becomes weaker with the same concept, yes, it's a selling point for those careful to not spam like they would with other projectile based characters.

Risk reward.

 

[Joseppo]

dunno about music tbh

Well, I was refering to the upcoming DLC, but fair point I guess.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Hopefully the next newcomer won't be spoiled by leaks. It's a matter of a couple of weeks at most anyway imho.

I personally just want the news as soon as possible, whether it is or isn't by leak.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One think I hope from the DLC newcomers (please, don't let it only be veterans) is that they come with some good music with them. I know the character itself is far more important, but I do really care about soundtracks in video games (or soundtracks in general). So I'm really concerned about this. What tracks would you like to be added to the game with DLC (even if they aren't connected with your most wanted)?

Gonna try this anyway
Cornered
Unknown Laboratory SFIV
Guile theme
FE5 Strike
vs Knight medley (Kirby)
Big Arm from Generations
VS [XENOBLADE FINAL BOSS]

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

There's a 24 hr eShop maintenance on 11/1, an early November Direct really does look to have a good chance.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't know. I mean we know the Nintendo Direct is coming but. The EShop Maintenance is probably just to fix some stuff. They've been doing it a lot lately though.

 

[Ura]

Calling it now. My prediction for the next direct is December 2nd.

As much as i'd like to see a November Direct, my gut feeling is that Nintendo is going to release the Direct at the start of December to boost their holiday sales and whatnot.