Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Kurri ★]

Absolutely not. That's definitely not Sakurai's style if he's at the reigns again. He'd want to make the game as big as he could, an use the new hardware. The dude was so ****in' excited he could make Smash 4 so graphically nice compared to Brawl, who knows what he could do with NX. And even if it's not him, it's not Nintendo's style just to port games without a new entry in that series brewing.

Mario Power Tennis. But, I think that's the only one.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sigh, am I really the only person that HATES the fact that Cloud and Ryu are in Smash? I just don't feel like they belong there. Cloud was never on a Nintendo console. The last FF game on Nintendo was FF6.

The Final Fantasy series has a lot of story with Nintendo.

Besides the first 6 main games, there were a bunch of spin-offs released on Nintendo since the GameCube days.

Also, FF7 was first planned as a SNES title, then a N64 one before moving to PlayStation since the game ended up being too big...

Seeing Cloud in Smash basically means that he's finally back to his original birthplace!

 

[Burruni]

I get your argument about Cloud, but what about Ryu? He's been on Nintendo consoles, even if it was a while ago.

Street Fighter's been on Nintendo... pretty consistently.

1 being under the shadow of 2 making the top 20 list for SNES title sales multiple times

Dunno about the n64/gameboy era.

3 I believe we lacked but we got the Alpha side series across the GBA, (edit: which were exclusive.)

Dunno about the Wii/DS era

But

 

[Deleted member]

we got the Alpha side series across the GBA,

Only Alpha 3 was on GBA. Alpha 1 and 2 were respectively on GBC and SNES.

Dunno about the Wii/DS era

The TurboGrafx-CD port of the original Street Fighter (renamed Fighting Street for some reason) was ported to the Virtual Console. Virtually no one really cares about that game, but at least it's something.

 

[Burruni]

Only Alpha 3 was on GBA. Alpha 1 and 2 were respectively on GBC and SNES.

The TurboGrafx-CD port of the original Street Fighter (renamed Fighting Street for some reason) was ported to the Virtual Console. Virtually no one really cares about that game, but at least it's something.

AS SOMEONE WHO HISTORICALLY IS GARBAGE AT FIGHTING GAMES AND THUS NEVER FOLLOWED THEM

Thanks for correcting me.
However, my point stands that Street Fighter and Final Fantasy stand both as big-name series with strong old Nintendo ties that, while their main series became more famous with Sony, still made sure to keep ports/remakes/spinoffs come plentifully to Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member]

AS SOMEONE WHO HISTORICALLY IS GARBAGE AT FIGHTING GAMES AND THUS NEVER FOLLOWED THEM

Thanks for correcting me.
However, my point stands that Street Fighter and Final Fantasy stand both as big-name series with strong old Nintendo ties that, while their main series became more famous with Sony, still made sure to keep ports/remakes/spinoffs come plentifully to Nintendo.

Spoiler

Banjo when?

Literally the only thing keeping this game fron having the most epic line-up in gaming history.

The fact that both Ryu and Cloud have gotten in due to their respective franchise's/company's ties to Nintendo, makes me feel confident Banjo will be making the DLC due to Rare's history with them as well.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Banjo when?

Literally the only thing keeping this game fron having the most epic line-up in gaming history.

The fact that both Ryu and Cloud have gotten in due to their respective franchise's/company's ties to Nintendo, makes me feel confident Banjo will be making the DLC due to Rare's history with them as well.

Does that Bomberman is also possible?

 

[NintenZ]

Dude, seriously.



A lot of different people have given a million reasons why. Have you been reading at all?


I hate that I am gettinfg involved; I'd really rather just lurk this thread, but come on. Chill out. Whatever happened to that break?

I heavily exaggerated my feelings in a comedic tone to show how the topic has ironically been beaten like a dead horse, and I have been reading too. I'm here because I'm feeling a lot better. I'm totally chill, everything's fine.

 

[FalKoopa]

Does that Bomberman is also possible?

Possible? Yes.
Likely? Up for debate.

 

[NintenZ]

View attachment 83854

Banjo when?

Literally the only thing keeping this game fron having the most epic line-up in gaming history.

The fact that both Ryu and Cloud have gotten in due to their respective franchise's/company's ties to Nintendo, makes me feel confident Banjo will be making the DLC due to Rare's history with them as well.

Please, OH PLEASE, put that in a spoiler?

 

[Joseppo]

About the Phoenix Wright thing,

Yes, he is not as iconic as the 3rd parties we already have. But, in my opinion, he doesn't need to be as iconic as them to get in. The only thing non-Nintendo Wright has is the name of the company, because he's almost exclusive to Ninty (except the few mobile games, but they're ports, so they don't really count). The other thing in his favor is the genre of the games he represents: investigation / visual novels, and we have nobody on the roster or even in the video game industry as iconic as him in this genre, so that should increase his chances. Despite this, I believe that if we're getting him it will be in the next game, not this one as DLC (although we can all dream). About the fighting style, I don't think Sakurai should follow the UMVC3 style, because I think he can do much better. He could have some items-based style with the evidence, along with some moves he's done in his series (shoving people, breaking doors, ...).

About the Cloud thing,

As many people here, I love Cloud's inclusion, even though he isn't related to Nintendo as strongly as other characters. He has appeared in Nintendo, so we have that, but his main game hasn't and that seems such a big deal for some people, because "no link with Nintendo whatsoever". But what if this link is being created now? I mean, if Nintendo wants to reconnect with Square Enix and the games they've missed because they went to Sony, they have to make deals again with SE, and if they want to, they'll have to start at some point, so why wait when we can include Cloud, satisfy a majority of people, make profit, and improve the relationship between the two companies?

So that's basically it. I think this is my longest post in this website so far.

 

[Burruni]

People
Please stop using Ryu and Cloud as justification for Banjo-Kazooie.

What do they have in common?

They're series that were most associated with Nintendo in terms of consoles but now with another console developer.
After "switching teams," they've put some spinoffs and "lesser" titles for Nintendo.

What is different?

Final Fantasy and Street Fighter are genre-defining series that have spanned many console generations with quality.
They (Cloud and Ryu) are, to some varying effect, icons of gaming history. Banjo-Kazooie became largely irrelevant after the buyout.
Cloud and Ryu are "standard" 3rd Party characters, not 1st Party for a competing company.
Banjo's GBA titles were approved because Microsoft had/has no handheld to have as competition. We got Street Fighter and Final Fantasy titles on both home and handheld consoles throughout their lifespans in spite of "competition" from Sony on PS1/PS2/PS3 & PSP/PSVita.
Cloud and Ryu were chosen as characters by Sakurai because he knew they would be hype for mass audiences but they not expected due to various reasons and despite having "low requests." Banjo-Kazooie largely hinge on the idea of them being chosen from the ballot. The bear and bird would be a surprise for different reasons.
(Edit: Also, Street Fighter and Final Fantasy are world-wide massive series. B-K wasn't huge in the east at its peak, let alone now.)

That's my opinion on the matter, and I think Banjo-Kazooie is one of the best games for the 3D Platformer Collectathon Genre and Tooie is possibly the best example of "how to do a sequel" for gaming.

Edit: To me, saying Cloud means Banjo-Kazooie are likely is like saying means we're getting Inklings because they're customizable avatars from hit Nintendo titles that have a pre-defined personality.

 

[Deleted member]

People
Please stop using Ryu and Cloud as justification for Banjo-Kazooie.

What do they have in common?

They're series that were most associated with Nintendo in terms of consoles but now with another console developer.
After "switching teams," they've put some spinoffs and "lesser" titles for Nintendo.

What is different?

Final Fantasy and Street Fighter are genre-defining series that have spanned many console generations with quality.
They (Cloud and Ryu) are, to some varying effect, icons of gaming history. Banjo-Kazooie became largely irrelevant after the buyout.
Cloud and Ryu are "standard" 3rd Party characters, not 1st Party for a competing company.
Banjo's GBA titles were approved because Microsoft had/has no handheld to have as competition. We got Street Fighter and Final Fantasy titles on both home and handheld consoles throughout their lifespans in spite of "competition" from Sony on PS1/PS2/PS3 & PSP/PSVita.
Cloud and Ryu were chosen as characters by Sakurai because he knew they would be hype for mass audiences but they not expected due to various reasons despite having "low requests." Banjo-Kazooie largely hinge on the idea of them being chosen from the ballot. The bear and bird would be a surprise for different reasons.
(Edit: Also, Street Fighter and Final Fantasy are world-wide massive series. B-K wasn't huge in the east at its peak, let alone now.)

That's my opinion on the matter, and I think Banjo-Kazooie is one of the best games for the 3D Platformer Collectathon Genre and Tooie is possibly the best example of "how to do a sequel" for gaming.

Edit: To me, saying Cloud means Banjo-Kazooie are likely is like saying means we're getting Inklings because they're customizable avatars from hit Nintendo titles that have a pre-defined personality.

I should also remind you that Phil Spencer gave the OK on Banjo in Smash, while also admitting Rare games sell better on Nintendo consoles due to the overlap of fans. This bodes very well for them.

As for why Ryu and Cloud are strong indicators for the duo? It's simple, he wants big gaming icons in the game. Those two are big gaming icons. Banjo is a big gaming icon too. He's a 90s icon, but an icon nonetheless. He's still well-loved to this day, Y-L, and the waves created by Spencer's tweet are proof enough.

Finally, they were amid the top three in polls for the ballots in the west.

All this evidence favors them over all other possibilities very much. Competition doesn't matter to Sakurai, if such were the case, Ryu, Snake, and Cloud would have never gotten in Smash, especially when their next games are all exclusive to their biggest rival both in the west, and Japan (MGS4, SFV, and FFVIIR).

Smash is a homage to gaming. Give me ONE character MORE deserving of getting in than Banjo at this point, first party or not.

You might not like it, you might not see it cause you weren't able to grow up with them, but every 90s Nintendo fan sees it. Dems the facts.

 

[Deleted member]

All this evidence favors them over all other possibilities very much. Competition doesn't matter to Sakurai, if such were the case, Ryu, Snake, and Cloud would have never gotten in Smash, especially when their next games are all exclusive to their biggest rival both in the west, and Japan (MGS4, SFV, and FFVIIR).

There's still a huge difference between third party characters whose upcoming games are exclusive to competing platforms and competing first party characters. Sakurai may not care about competition and Spencer may have given the okay to use Banjo, but the higher-ups at Nintendo might not allow it to happen.

 

[Froggy]

The addition of Cloud makes me lose hope for any obscure characters joining the game. My idea of having Nights into dreams for this game is now Dead even Soul Caliber's Ivy seems like a long shot now.

 

[ErenJager]

I have no clue who the next couple of DLC characters will be, I know who I would like, but that's not a reflection or indication of who it will be.

I can make as many correlations as I want from perceived 'evidence', indicators, or trends but realistically come the very end of the day. The ultimate deciding factor is Sakurai. Despite any logic, or rational I perceive to be valid to suggest certain characters, its all bunk unless I know for absolute certain Sakurai feels the same way.

Sakurai stated the rest of DLC would be "Fan Service", I can't even really begin to think which characters that makes more likely without having an understanding what fan service means to Sakurai. I can speculate and guess what it probably means, but without any clear and absolute definition given by the man himself, I stand a reasonable chance to be wrong.

I feel we really shouldn't be stating X character is more likely, or Y character is impossible, as a matter of fact, but should try to convey it more as a matter of opinion.

At this point I feel any opinion is pretty much valid to a certain extent, just how valid will be seen in December.

 

[SonicMario]

The addition of Cloud makes me lose hope for any obscure characters joining the game. My idea of having Nights into dreams for this game is now Dead even Soul Caliber's Ivy seems like a long shot now.

I don't mean to burst your bubble further. But when it comes to 3rd Party additions it makes sense they're not obscure in comparison to general gaming history especially when trying to sell DLC. 3rd Party DLC like Ryu and Cloud has made many interested in buying them as soon as they're released because of their legendary status. I'm not saying an unorthodox cult classic choice wouldn't intrigue people at the very least. It's just probably not a good idea to have a character as DLC that makes your average gamer go "...Who?".

 

[Deleted member]

There's still a huge difference between third party characters whose upcoming games are exclusive to competing platforms and competing first party characters. Sakurai may not care about competition and Spencer may have given the okay to use Banjo, but the higher-ups at Nintendo might not allow it to happen.

Sakurai has gone against the will of his higher ups before, see Snake.

As for every thing else you said, did you read the image I posted?

Sakurai stated what matters in regard to character additions already, his word contradicts yours.

And before people bring up the "Sakurai has gone back on his word before" strawman, bear in mind that those are two different cases, and that Cloud is proof that Sakurai's will still holds true for guest characters.

Banjo being 1st party is irrelevant when Phil has given the OK, Sakurai himself has already stated (proof in my image), that the biggest hurdle is getting consent and freedom from the IP owner. And when M$-Nintendo relations are the best they've ever been... well, it's not rocket science dudes. You need only look at the established facts. Banjo fits the mold for everything an ideal DLC character could bring at this point. He has better chances than any other character imo.

 

[Zerp]

If I can ask a question, may I ask what makes Banjo comparable to the current third parties?

I'm asking because all of the third parties so far have two things in common, being iconic, and they all have have absolutely massive sales, now please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken there's nothing suggesting Banjo-Kazooie as a series broke even 15 million units.

That would be very bad for him since FF has over 110 million, Sonic has 80 million at minimum, Pac-Man has around 42 million, Metal Gear has around 41 million and Street Fighter has around 30 million. Don't get me wrong, I like Banjo-Kazooie too, but, I really don't understand what makes Banjo comparable to any of our third party characters so far, it kind of feels like the bear and bird are out of their league?

 

[FalKoopa]

I wouldn't call Banjo very likely though.

While they definitely have a non-zero possibility now (Cloud + Phil's statement), it should be noted that SquareEnix and Capcom do have a much healthier relationship with Nintendo than Microsoft.

If they can sort out everything and add him, more power to them. But I'm not optimistic about them yet.

---------------------------------------

As to whether they should be in, they would have been in if not for the buyout, so I think they are deserving.

 

[A Distant Demon]

If I can ask a question, may I ask what makes Banjo comparable to the current third parties?

I'm asking because all of the third parties so far have two things in common, being iconic, and they all have have absolutely massive sales, now please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken there's nothing suggesting Banjo-Kazooie as a series broke even 15 million units.

That would be very bad for him since FF has over 110 million, Sonic has 80 million at minimum, Pac-Man has around 42 million, Metal Gear has around 41 million and Street Fighter has around 30 million. Don't get me wrong, I like Banjo-Kazooie too, but, I really don't understand what makes Banjo comparable to any of our third party characters so far, it kind of feels like the bear and bird are out of their league?

Nostalgia. Lots and lots of nostalgia*. We're in the age group where people grew up with the N64 and when Youtubers gushed about the game all the time. A lot of people in the diehard smash community have a lot of exposure to the bear and bird from this.

*Not to say nostalgia is a bad thing

 

[Deleted member]

If I can ask a question, may I ask what makes Banjo comparable to the current third parties?

I'm asking because all of the third parties so far have two things in common, being iconic, and they all have have absolutely massive sales, now please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken there's nothing suggesting Banjo-Kazooie as a series broke even 15 million units.

That would be very bad for him since FF has over 110 million, Sonic has 80 million at minimum, Pac-Man has around 42 million, Metal Gear has around 41 million and Street Fighter has around 30 million. Don't get me wrong, I like Banjo-Kazooie too, but, I really don't understand what makes Banjo comparable to any of our third party characters so far, it kind of feels like the bear and bird are out of their league?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_64_video_games

Over 5 million on the N64 alone, not bad if you ask me, especially since they make the top 15 in sales.

It's also very critically acclaimed, with at least one title ALWAYS making a top 10 list, a rival to SM64, many arguing it's better, and an icon of the N64. The Banjo games are among the most memorable of that era.

2nd, same as Cloud is pretty much FF incarnate, Banjo is the same for Rare (especially with Rare games being self-referential). Considering how close Rare was to Nintendo (with 49% of the company being OWNED by them), and how many top selling games were made by them, it makes sense that as the face of Rare, Banjo would serve to represent Rare as a whole.

Sales don't matter, but a more fair comparison to the FF franchise would be all Rare games sales.

But I digress, sales don't matter. Sakurai has never said the sales of a game factor into his decision-making, guest or not. Ofc, lets be reasonable, but nonetheless, he's stated his criteria, and all of it is met perfectly by Banjo.

Instead we should look at how important and iconic Banjo is to Nintendo, and Nintendo history, to which, the answer is very much, considering he stood side by side with Mario, Link, Yoshi, and DK during the N64 days.

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo-Kazooie Gah-ha!

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't call Banjo very likely though.

While they definitely have a non-zero possibility now (Cloud + Phil's statement), it should be noted that SquareEnix and Capcom do have a much healthier relationship with Nintendo than Microsoft.

If they can sort out everything and add him, more power to them. But I'm not optimistic about them yet.

---------------------------------------

As to whether they should be in, they would have been in if not for the buyout, so I think they are deserving.

And the ballots, being in the top 3 for western polls bodes very well for him.

Sakurai DID say DLC was about fanservice. I think it's very clear fans want Banjo, Isaac, and K.Rool.

Now lets just think, overall, out of the top 10 ballot characters, which one would stir up the most hype, not just among Smash fans, but among most gamers.

THAT'S why Banjo is comparable to Cloud. Yes the only character left that can generate that much hype.

I see Banjo as the Sonic/Megaman of the DLC crew.

Predictable somewhat, but very hype worthy, and very high in fan demand.

Cloud is like Snake in that it was totally out of the blue, and mostly a Sony icon, and to me, Ryu like Pac-man cause he was leaked, and initially received with mixed opinions.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wouldn't call Banjo very likely though.

While they definitely have a non-zero possibility now (Cloud + Phil's statement), it should be noted that SquareEnix and Capcom do have a much healthier relationship with Nintendo than Microsoft.

If they can sort out everything and add him, more power to them. But I'm not optimistic about them yet.

---------------------------------------

As to whether they should be in, they would have been in if not for the buyout, so I think they are deserving.

If it weren't for the buyout, they would have probably been more requested than even K. Rool.

 

[Burruni]

If I can ask a question, may I ask what makes Banjo comparable to the current third parties?

I'm asking because all of the third parties so far have two things in common, being iconic, and they all have have absolutely massive sales, now please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken there's nothing suggesting Banjo-Kazooie as a series broke even 15 million units.

That would be very bad for him since FF has over 110 million, Sonic has 80 million at minimum, Pac-Man has around 42 million, Metal Gear has around 41 million and Street Fighter has around 30 million. Don't get me wrong, I like Banjo-Kazooie too, but, I really don't understand what makes Banjo comparable to any of our third party characters so far, it kind of feels like the bear and bird are out of their league?

It hasn't broken 15 million.
It hasn't broken 10 million.
Hell, it's barely around 7 million.
Banjo-Kazooie sold a bit under 4 million.
Tooie sold about 1.5 million.
Grunty's Revenge sold about 330 thousand.
Banjo-Pilot? around 100 thousand.
Nuts & Bolts, around 750 thousand.
Edit: Of the 750k, Japan made up about 4k of those sales. Ouch.

4+1.5+.33+.1+.75
Approximately 6.68 Million units.

Edit:

If it weren't for the buyout, they would have probably been more requested than even K. Rool.

Yes. We possibly would've seen them in Melee.
If FF7 was on the N64 Disc Drive, you BET Cloud would've been in Melee.

But this isn't our condition.

 

[Ura]

Sales aside, I do believe that Banjo has enough fan support to warrant him a spot on the Smash Bros roster. He's an iconic figure from the N64 era that fans love so he's got the Nintendo history along with big fan support.

 

[Deleted member]

It hasn't broken 15 million.
It hasn't broken 10 million.
Hell, it's barely around 7 million.
Banjo-Kazooie sold a bit under 4 million.
Tooie sold about 1.5 million.
Grunty's Revenge sold about 330 thousand.
Banjo-Pilot? 100 thousand.
Nuts & Bolts, around 750 thousand.
Edit: Of the 750k, Japan made up about 4k of those sales.

Tooie sold 3 million, Kazooie sold 2.2.

I already posted my sources, and idk WHERE you're getting your numbers from.

5.2 mill isn't bad at all considering Smash 64 sold 5.5 mill, Starfox 3.3 mill, and OoT 7.6 mill, and IT is considered to be the greatest game of all time.

So... ouch??

I don't see how. 5.2 mill is fantastic. It explains why Banjo was so popular during that Era, brand new franchise and it sold amazingly well on a console with a low install base (sound familiar?).

Plus, we aren't counting Rare Replay and Live Arcade sales cause there are no sources there.

If we tally up all the numbers, I think it's very possible the Banjo series has broken 10mil.

But again, sales don't matter at all, it sold well enough, so this entire discussion is moot. If you're gonna argue that Banjo stands on a weak platform because of "low sales" then you have no argument, cause not only is that wrong, but also plenty of characters IN Smash discredit that argument completely.

Plus, comparing franchise sales is pointless when FF has had over 30 titles, SF the same, and Banjo fell off the face of the Earth after the buyout. I WISH we had more Banjo games, everyone does, but that's not the case. A true Banjo-Threeie would be amazing. Y-L is proof enough the demand for more is there, not our fault devs don't deliver.

However, on a game per game basis, Banjo has sold as good as Sonic, SF, FF, Megaman, etc... there is indeed equal standing (SFIV sold a little over 4 mill on PS3, FFVII over 11mill on ALL platforms, PS1, PSN, PC, and Steam, etc...)

So.... ouch?

I don't think so. Your argument is flawed.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Ingore this post, I'm having trouble explaining my thoughts.

 

[Froggy]

I don't mean to burst your bubble further. But when it comes to 3rd Party additions it makes sense they're not obscure in comparison to general gaming history especially when trying to sell DLC. 3rd Party DLC like Ryu and Cloud has made many interested in buying them as soon as they're released because of their legendary status. I'm not saying an unorthodox cult classic choice wouldn't intrigue people at the very least. It's just probably not a good idea to have a character as DLC that makes your average gamer go "...Who?".

Sigh, I don't like how true this is.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I really don't think Banjo stands up against any of the 3rd party characters, the series isn't genre defining like Pac-Man, Final Fantasy or Street fighter, it doesn't have hundreds of games spanning across multiple generations of gaming like Mega Man and Sonic have. They aren't the face of a major gaming company (Rare itself wasn't that major, they're good games but they didn't have the sales that other companies achieved). Hell, they aren't even well known to a casual audience which Smash 4 is aimed at. Even as characters themselves they don't have anything that'd make them stand out in terms of moveset potential or anything. I don't see anything noteworthy about them from a non-biased position.

 

[Gimmick]

I'm not sure if Cloud appeals to the casual audience either. Nowadays people probably recognize the Soldier from Call of Duty more than him.

 

[Kurri ★]

I'm not sure if Cloud appeals to the casual audience either. Nowadays people probably recognize the Soldier from Call of Duty more than him.

Implying a character has to appeal to the casual audience? I'm pretty sure less than half of the roster is recognizable to the casual audience. Look at Lucas, his game wasn't even released outside of Japan, casual audience doesn't know who he is at all. Point is, Cloud's game helped popularize JRPGs and had a major impact on the gaming industry. Regardless of whether or not casuals know who he is, FF7 is a massive moment in video game history.

Besides, if you're going to point out an FPS franchise, at least point out Halo, another franchise that had a huge impact.

edit: I actually would like Master Chief in Smash. I don't care what anyone says, he'd be a great, albeit highly unlikely, addition.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I'm not sure if Cloud appeals to the casual audience either. Nowadays people probably recognize the Soldier from Call of Duty more than him.

They recognise Final Fantasy though and cloud is basically the face of the franchise, but that's not that important since he has an impactful history to back that up anyway

Implying a character has to appeal to the casual audience? I'm pretty sure less than half of the roster is recognizable to the casual audience. Look at Lucas, his game wasn't even released outside of Japan, casual audience doesn't know who he is at all. Point is, Cloud's game helped popularize JRPGs and had a major impact on the gaming industry. Regardless of whether or not casuals know who he is, FF7 is a massive moment in video game history.

Besides, if you're going to point out an FPS franchise, at least point out Halo, another franchise that had a huge impact.

edit: I actually would like Master Chief in Smash. I don't care what anyone says, he'd be a great, albeit highly unlikely, addition.

First party character =/= third party character though, I'd think a third party character would have to be decently well-known to general consumers in order to be added

 

[Burruni]

Implying a character has to appeal to the casual audience? I'm pretty sure less than half of the roster is recognizable to the casual audience. Look at Lucas, his game wasn't even released outside of Japan, casual audience doesn't know who he is at all. Point is, Cloud's game helped popularize JRPGs and had a major impact on the gaming industry. Regardless of whether or not casuals know who he is, FF7 is a massive moment in video game history.

Besides, if you're going to point out an FPS franchise, at least point out Halo, another franchise that had a huge impact.

While it was planned, Halo DS didn't become a thing.

However, if we wanna talk about FPS games that had a massive impact on the genre with a major title in the works and had some nintendo releases....

 

[Deleted member]

I really don't think Banjo stands up against any of the 3rd party characters, the series isn't genre defining like Pac-Man, Final Fantasy or Street fighter, it doesn't have hundreds of games spanning across multiple generations of gaming like Mega Man and Sonic have. They aren't the face of a major gaming company (Rare itself wasn't that major, they're good games but they didn't have the sales that other companies achieved). Hell, they aren't even well known to a casual audience which Smash 4 is aimed at. Even as characters themselves they don't have anything that'd make them stand out in terms of moveset potential or anything. I don't see anything noteworthy about them from a non-biased position.

You DO realize that Rare was one of the most respected developers in the industry, right?
So respected Nintendo bought out 49% of the company and let them handle some of their most treasured IP.

You DO realize that Banjo (and SM64) defined and popularized the 3D platformer/Collectathon, right? The most popular genre of the N64/PS1 era, spawning dozens of copies and mascots (Crash, Gex, Jack and Daxter, Sypro, plus tons of Disney knock offs. Collectathons were the FPS of that generation.

You DO realize that Banjo was a Nintendo mascot on par with DK and Starfox and Yoshi, right?

You DO realize that they have enough canon moveset potential they were considered for the original Smash, right? There's plenty to make them stand out considering they can fly, fart a variety of eggs, transform, and split up just to name a few things. B-K were made for Smash practically. They're a perfect fit in every category.

 

[Kurri ★]

While it was planned, Halo DS didn't become a thing.

However, if we wanna talk about FPS games that had a massive impact on the genre with a major title in the works and had some nintendo releases....

Meh, I don't think Smash should be limited by, "Did this series ever release on Nintendo?" So long as it's a video game, I think it's fair.

Doom may have help start FPSes, but Halo helped popularize them by actual being a good FPS on consoles. Along with that, Halo 2 helped kickstart console online multiplayer.

 

[SonicMario]

I'm not sure if Cloud appeals to the casual audience either. Nowadays people probably recognize the Soldier from Call of Duty more than him.

It's the average gamer we're talking about, not those who are only casually aware of Video games. Ones who are generally aware of big characters in Gaming history even if they've never played the games they come from.

When Cloud was revealed, those who reacted generally said more "WHAT?!"s then "WHO?!"s those people recognized who Cloud was, they just didn't think he had a snowball's chance in hell at being the revealed character. Chances are the casual gamer who are only aware of games like Call of Duty likely weren't even watching the direct and probably doing something other then gaming.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

You DO realize that Rare was one of the most respected developers in the industry, right?

You DO realize that Banjo (and SM64) defined and popularized the 3D platformer/Collectathon, right? The most popular genre of the N64/PS1 era, spawning dozens of copies and mascots (Crash, Gex, Jack and Daxter, Sypro, plus tons of Disney knock offs. Collectathons were the FPS of that generation.

You DO realize that Banjo was a Nintendo mascot on par with DK and Starfox and Yoshi, right?

You DO realize that they have enough canon moveset potential they were considered for the original Smash, right? There's plenty to make them stand out considering they can fly, fart a variety of eggs, transform, and split up just to name a few things. B-K were made for Smash practically. They're a perfect fit in every category.

They may be one of the most respected but they are far from most iconic or well known, they aren't a square enix, capcom, namco or sega, not even close.

Super Mario 64 defined the 3D platformer and collectathon, Banjo simply followed in it's tracks, it didn't really define anything.

I'll give you the eggs but that's about it honestly, Transforming wouldn't work in a smash setting and flying characters are far from a new concept. I'd hardly say they are made for smash and I don't see how they are even slightly a "perfect fit" it's like when people say that about shovel knight

 

[MagnesD3]

You DO realize that Rare was one of the most respected developers in the industry, right?
So respected Nintendo bought out 49% of the company and let them handle some of their most treasured IP.

You DO realize that Banjo (and SM64) defined and popularized the 3D platformer/Collectathon, right? The most popular genre of the N64/PS1 era, spawning dozens of copies and mascots (Crash, Gex, Jack and Daxter, Sypro, plus tons of Disney knock offs. Collectathons were the FPS of that generation.

You DO realize that Banjo was a Nintendo mascot on par with DK and Starfox and Yoshi, right?

You DO realize that they have enough canon moveset potential they were considered for the original Smash, right? There's plenty to make them stand out considering they can fly, fart a variety of eggs, transform, and split up just to name a few things. B-K were made for Smash practically. They're a perfect fit in every category.

Younglings don't know. Shovelware is the future. Once upon a time Rare was my favorite video game company.