Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Lady Byakugan]

wolf barely made it into brawl anyways, so him being cut from smash4 isnt surprising

 

[Burruni]

While Cloud and Ryu has thier place in gaming history and Nintendo history, so does Banjo and he represents a point and era for Nintendo that Cloud and Ryu doesn't.

We would also need to know how out of the way is this 'financial leap' is. There are characters that defy everything you presented.

Relevancy -
Lack of Japan support -
Lack of recent games -

Smash is becoming more and more of a gaming/history fighting game. I believe if the game and/or series touched/influenced a time for Nintendo: They are fair game

, like and were hand-chosen Retro characters. The first three because they represented hardware, Pit because he had plans for Uprising, and Icies because of the uniqueness of a two-part fighter he saw for them in Melee.
was chosen specifically because he was a curveball being a very western-focused character. I feel like we hit our curveball quota for DLC.
was chosen when he was very recent, and only because he reused assets from the original Dragon Fighter project. And my point wasn't a lack of recent games, it's a lack of relevancy. K. Rool hasn't been seen in almost a decade, but he's still a very relevant Nintendo character. Chibi-Robo's recent but not relevant.

Most of all: First Party characters for the main disc, not Third Party characters for DLC.

How out of the way the financial leap is? 's delaying of Brawl. That's the perfect example. The fact that we've had lightning strike twice only makes me more skeptical of it occuring a third, instead of more open.

 

[NintenZ]

wolf barely made it into brawl anyways, so him being cut from smash4 isnt surprising

Yeah, but alot of people wanted to see him come back which is why I put that there.

 

[Moon Monkey]

, like and were hand-chosen Retro characters.
was chosen specifically because he was a curveball being a very western-focused character. I feel like we hit our curveball quota for DLC.
was chosen when he was very recent, and only because he reused assets from the original Dragon Fighter project.

Most of all: First Party characters for the main disc, not Third Party characters for DLC.

How out of the way the financial leap is? 's delaying of Brawl. That's the perfect example. The fact that we've had lightning strike twice only makes me more skeptical of it occuring a third, instead of more open.

So why wouldn't Banjo also not be chosen on the grounds of Western popularity? Like mac

While these are 1st party characters, who is to say that 3rd party characters can't be chosen on those grounds as well.

Just like how characters like were chosen on the grounds of retro representation, doesn't and do that as well?

We are talking Smash wii U here. Brawl was a different game, and it's work cycle was different. Brawl did not recieve DLC characters months after release. So there is no restrictions for delaying a game. The circumstances are different, as im sure sonic was Sakurai first dealings with 3rd party affairs. He now has more experienced in how these dealings work.

 

[NintenZ]

So why wouldn't Banjo also not be chosen on the grounds of Western popularity? Like mac

While these are 1st party characters, who is to say that 3rd party characters can't be chosen on those grounds as well.

Just like how characters like were chosen on the grounds of retro representation, doesn't and do that as well?

We are talking Smash wii U here. Brawl was a different game, and it's work cycle was different. Brawl did not recieve DLC characters months after release. So thier is no restrictions for delaying a game. The circumstances are different, as im sure sonic was Sakurai first dealings with 3rd party affairs. He now has more experienced in how these dealings work.

I think Rayman and Shantae overall have less issues then them.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I think Rayman and Shantae overall have less issues then them.

Then who? Than both Cloud and Banjo?

I can agree with that. But that's not to say they brush them off the table entirely

 

[Burruni]

So why wouldn't Banjo also not be chosen on the grounds of Western popularity? Like mac

While these are 1st party characters, who is to say that 3rd party characters can't be chosen on those grounds as well.

Just like how characters like were chosen on the grounds of retro representation, doesn't and do that as well?

We are talking Smash wii U here. Brawl was a different game, and it's work cycle was different. Brawl did not recieve DLC characters months after release. So thier is no restrictions for delaying a game. The circumstances are different, as im sure sonic was Sakurai first dealings with 3rd party affairs. He now has more experienced in how these dealings work.

1) I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he won't. Because off the merits of popularity and ballot we've got a nice stack of first party candidates and, once again, I am sure we've hit our curveball quota with .
2) was chosen because he was massively requested since Brawl, world-wide, and across his many subseries has been an icon of Nintendo from NES, to SNES, part of N64, GB, GBA, and DS. You can't argue the raw hype of Megaman's reveal could be matched by Banjo-Kazooie. The only one to even hit that level since was probably . got in because he's friggin Pac-Man. He's pretty much the only gaming character who could out-star power himself. Their classic selves are the focus because that's what they're most remembered and popularized by. They've been relevant since their creation. "Megaman-styled respawning enemies," is just a term of gamers and we know it. edit: And the N64 isn't retro-tier old yet. The SNES is crossing that now.
3) was the first proper dealing with 3rd Party Affairs. And his experience isn't what's in question here. It's the amount of time and money spent beyond the norm to negotiate with Microsoft for the rights of Banjo-Kazooie ontop of the normal cycle of a fighter. I don't believe they have the power as a character to compensate for this like the ones we've seen before. Even is leagues above them and he got in because of friendship of makers.

 

[NintenZ]

Then who? Than both Cloud and Banjo?

I can agree with that. But that's not to say they brush them off the table entirely

Banjo actually (I literally can't believe I'm saying this) has more licensing issues then Cloud, so an agreement would be near impossible.

 

[Ura]

I personally believe Banjo would be a much more appealing chioce than Rayman IMO. Not to mention the whole deal of Ubisoft charging Nintendo all these royalties and stuff. Shantae just isn't a big enough name for DLC. Her and Butt Butt would be extremely underwhelming to put in the game with gaming all-stars like in the game.

I disagree with Wolf being a bad choice. He's one of the most iconic characters from the Star Fox series and was a great addition to the Brawl roster (not to mention him being sort of a villain and Fox's arch rival, along with him being a Quasi-clone).

 

[NintenZ]

I personally believe Banjo would be a much more appealing chioce than Rayman IMO. Not to mention the whole deal of Ubisoft charging Nintendo all these royalties and stuff. Shantae just isn't a big enough name for DLC. Her and Butt Butt would be extremely underwhelming to put in the game with gaming all-stars like in the game.

I disagree with Wolf being a bad choice. He's one of the most iconic characters from the Star Fox series and was a great addition to the Brawl roster (not to mention him being sort of a villain and Fox's arch rival, along with him being a Quasi-clone).

I never said Wolf was a bad choice, I just don't think he's shoo-in like some are saying.

 

[Ura]

Perhaps but with SF-Zero on the horizon and his popularity, his chances of getting in are better than him not.

 

[Moon Monkey]

1) I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he won't. Because off the merits of popularity and ballot we've got a nice stack of first party candidates and, once again, I am sure we've hit our curveball quota with .
2) was chosen because he was massively requested since Brawl, world-wide, and across his many subseries has been an icon of Nintendo from NES, to SNES, part of N64, GB, GBA, and DS. You can't argue the raw hype of Megaman's reveal could be matched by Banjo-Kazooie. The only one to even hit that level since was probably . got in because he's friggin Pac-Man. He's pretty much the only gaming character who could out-star power himself. Their classic selves are the focus because that's what they're most remembered and popularized by. They've been relevant since their creation. "Megaman-styled respawning enemies," is just a term of gamers and we know it. edit: And the N64 isn't retro-tier old yet. The SNES is crossing that now.
3) was the first proper dealing with 3rd Party Affairs. And his experience isn't what's in question here. It's the amount of time and money spent beyond the norm to negotiate with Microsoft for the rights of Banjo-Kazooie ontop of the normal cycle of a fighter. I don't believe they have the power as a character to compensate for this like the ones we've seen before. Even is leagues above them and he got in because of friendship of makers.

I remember when people said wii fit trainer was the WTF character ambassador for the roster. then Cloud, Ryu Were added. Now there is a quota? I don't think there is a quota of the sort for curve balls. Sakurai always try to throw curve balls even for characters we've played before (ZSS's reveal)

You don't think fans would want Banjo if given the chance? Im positive Banjo would be a top 3 candidate if not for the Rare acquisition. Raw hype? Yooka-Laylee alone is an indication of how Banjo-Kazooie has influenced the lives of many.

Phil Spencer has already said he was all for it, So its not even a matter of negotiating. On top of that, as mentioned, already have 2 Minecraft games on the way. If it were to happen, We don't even know how long they been in talks.

You might be talking from your perspective of how popular/ unpopular you think Banjo is. To me Banjo is just as popular and important than cloud will be when talking about Nintendo's history

 

[NintenZ]

Perhaps but with SF-Zero on the horizon and his popularity, his chances of getting in are better than him not.

Never said they weren't, just saying that I don't know if he'll be in.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Banjo actually (I literally can't believe I'm saying this) has more licensing issues then Cloud, so an agreement would be near impossible.

harder? Maybe. Impossible? Not in the slightest.

Diddy Kong Racing DS was made and produced by Rare for DS when they were with Microsoft.

That history, and proof of execution is there.

 

[NintenZ]

harder? Maybe. Impossible? Not in the slightest.

Diddy Kong Racing DS was made and produced by Rare for DS when they were with Microsoft.

That history, and proof of execution is there.

There are still issues, as Microsoft would get most of the profit.

 

[Megadoomer]

harder? Maybe. Impossible? Not in the slightest.

Diddy Kong Racing DS was made and produced by Rare for DS when they were with Microsoft.

That history, and proof of execution is there.

The main issue is all of Rare's Nintendo games after the buyout (that one plus Banjo-Kazooie Grunty's Revenge, Banjo-Pilot, Sabrewulf, and Viva Pinata DS) were exclusive to handhelds, and only because Microsoft doesn't have a handheld of their own. Something like Smash, which is on a home console that is (in theory) competing with Microsoft's own hardware and automatically comes with physical merchandise like Amiibo, seems like a considerably different story.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Pit [was chosen] because he had plans for Uprising

FALSE; at best, AT BEST, this is speculation based on a hindsight historical perspective. There is no public support that he had any plans at all to do uprising.

was chosen specifically because he was a curveball being a very western-focused character.

Again... just speculation. Especially with Little Mac. I don't know many people who considered him a curve ball, actually. In fact, he seemed like one of the most obvious choices, according to most of the community (according to my knowledge), before and after his reveal.

How out of the way the financial leap is? 's delaying of Brawl. That's the perfect example. The fact that we've had lightning strike twice only makes me more skeptical of it occuring a third, instead of more open.

I think if it happened twice, its less of lighting and more of a tornado- a whirlwind of hype given a known substance of a hurricane.

1) I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he won't. Because off the merits of popularity and ballot we've got a nice stack of first party candidates and, once again, I am sure we've hit our curveball quota with .

You might have said that before Cloud as well. Speculation.

2) was chosen because he was massively requested since Brawl, world-wide, and across his many subseries has been an icon of Nintendo from NES, to SNES, part of N64, GB, GBA, and DS. You can't argue the raw hype of Megaman's reveal could be matched by Banjo-Kazooie.

Care to test that theory? At many levels, this is an argument over generational nostalgia.

3) was the first proper dealing with 3rd Party Affairs. And his experience isn't what's in question here. It's the amount of time and money spent beyond the norm to negotiate with Microsoft for the rights of Banjo-Kazooie ontop of the normal cycle of a fighter. I don't believe they have the power as a character to compensate for this like the ones we've seen before. Even is leagues above them and he got in because of friendship of makers.

Lots more speculation. We have no idea what the financial undertakings are in regard to third party candidates- Id even argue that if we got Shovel Knight, my theory that third-parties are paying for the development, is even more valid. Unless you can source economic credibility, this is just an opinion.

Yeah, but alot of people wanted to see him come back which is why I put that there.

I think its safe to say, the majority of people who want him back, are the same people who cannot envision a moveset before it is presented to them. In other words, followers, not visionaries. That is really the only excuse for Veteran bias... or rather, one of the only ones. Majority of people seem to feel entitled to content they once had, and make up illogical arguments as to why it is more sensible.

 

[Moon Monkey]

There are still issues, as Microsoft would get most of the profit.

If Nintendo was truly worried about companies not making profits. Smash Wii U would be all first party.

If anything Microsoft, would get a cut of the DLC earnings of Banjo and the possible stage. In the grand scheme of things its not like Nintendo would be in the red with this deal. Nintendo is already splitting earnings with capcom, namco, square, pokemon company etc.. so Microsoft will be no different.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm gonna need all you economists to verify some of your figures on what Nintendo pays for third parties, as well as what other companies consider an equilibrium of profit in regard to licensing their characters.

These arguments are ridiculous. When given a chance to get YOUR CHARACTER into THE game of the pantheon of gaming history, you put your character in the game. The risk/reward is more than debatable enough for all of these baseless opinions to be taken with an entire mine of salt.

 

[NintenZ]

If Nintendo was truly worried about companies not making profits. Smash Wii U would be all first party.

If anything Microsoft, would get a cut of the DLC earnings of Banjo and the possible stage. In the grand scheme of things its not like Nintendo would be in the red with this deal. Nintendo is already splitting earnings with capcom, namco, square, pokemon company etc.. so Microsoft will be no different.

This is a different scenario though, as it's a direct competitor rather than a freelance third-party company.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This is a different scenario though, as it's a direct competitor rather than a freelance third-party company.

Nintendo does not consider Sony nor Microsoft to be "direct competitors," at least not as recently as 2009 in the Wii era. They made countless statements regarding this notion, and the entirety of their marketing plan being based on a Blue Ocean technique, makes this actually believable.

 

[NintenZ]

Nintendo does not consider other Sony nor Microsoft to be "direct competitors," at least not as recently as 2009 in the Wii era. They made countless statements regarding this notion, and the entirety of their marketing plan being based on a Blue Ocean technique, makes this actually believable.

Fair enough I suppose, but still, Microsoft could pull a fast one on Nintendo, putting Banjo in the game and announcing a new game almost immediately after which would in-turn sell more XBOXs and less Wii Us.

 

[Moon Monkey]

The main issue is all of Rare's Nintendo games after the buyout (that one plus Banjo-Kazooie Grunty's Revenge, Banjo-Pilot, Sabrewulf, and Viva Pinata DS) were exclusive to handhelds, and only because Microsoft doesn't have a handheld of their own. Something like Smash, which is on a home console that is (in theory) competing with Microsoft's own hardware and automatically comes with physical merchandise like Amiibo, seems like a considerably different story.

Again, im going off of the words phil spencer. Microsoft was under different management while that game was in development.

And again Microsoft will most likely receive a cut of the earnings of those who purchase the DLC and amiibo. Just as capcom and square enix probably are.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Fair enough I suppose, but still, Microsoft could pull a fast one on Nintendo, putting Banjo in the game and announcing a new game almost immediately after which would in-turn sell more XBOXs and less Wii Us.

1- Banjo Kazooie would not move systems more than Smash Bros.
2- These are the things contact writers are trained in; I doubt Microsoft would A) Attempt to screw over a partner as big as Nintendo for the negligible profit that could be made from a Banjo-oriented decision, and B) I doubt they could get away with it.

 

[APC99]

The main issue is all of Rare's Nintendo games after the buyout (that one plus Banjo-Kazooie Grunty's Revenge, Banjo-Pilot, Sabrewulf, and Viva Pinata DS) were exclusive to handhelds, and only because Microsoft doesn't have a handheld of their own. Something like Smash, which is on a home console that is (in theory) competing with Microsoft's own hardware and automatically comes with physical merchandise like Amiibo, seems like a considerably different story.

Eh, not really.

The most likely reason Cloud is in is because Final Fantasy is a huge franchise. The most well-known game? Final Fantasy VII. So, if Sakurai said "hey Final Fantasy is a pretty important game series, it should get something in Smash" (which a lot of people believed anyway), there's no reason for him to stop and say "oh, the most well-received and liked of the series isn't on a Nintendo console. Ah, well. I'll just settle for a less iconic character." That'd be like if they said "oh shoot, the original Sonic trilogy was originally exclusive to Genesis. Let's just settle for the Werehog." They base third-parties off their iconic appearances. Mega Man's got items from MM8, Sonic's Brawl design was from Sonic '06, Snake had music from all four MGS titles, Pac-Man's got Pac-Land inspired stuff, and Ryu's got moves from games that never appeared on a Nintendo console. They're based off their franchise, not their Nintendo games.

Cloud's an iconic gaming character. He uses the abilities he had in FF7. It's not like they'd look at him and decide "if Cloud's in, he must be based off his sole appearance in a FF title on a Nintendo console, Theatrhythm." He'll be based off what he's known for best: Final Fantasy VII.

If Banjo were to be asked to get into Smash (something Microsoft execs have shown interest in), they're not going to say "he's not getting in, he's just on your handhelds because we don't have any". He's a legend from the N64 era, and it gives nearly every Banjo game a boost in desire from new fans. I can see it now, "Here's Banjo and Kazooie! You can learn more about them with Rare Replay on the Xbox One!". They have a character that people want, Nintendo has a game that exposes similar characters and boosts franchises to new heights, both companies benefit. Hell, if Sakurai asked them for Master Chief, they'd probably say yes.

Tl;dr: There are no limits, Cloud broke nothing because there was nothing in the first place.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Eh, not really.

The most likely reason Cloud is in is because Final Fantasy is a huge franchise. The most well-known game? Final Fantasy VII. So, if Sakurai said "hey Final Fantasy is a pretty important game series, it should get something in Smash" (which a lot of people believed anyway), there's no reason for him to stop and say "oh, the most well-received and liked of the series isn't on a Nintendo console. Ah, well. I'll just settle for a less iconic character." That'd be like if they said "oh shoot, the original Sonic trilogy was originally exclusive to Genesis. Let's just settle for the Werehog." They base third-parties off their iconic appearances. Mega Man's got items from MM8, Sonic's Brawl design was from Sonic '06, Snake had music from all four MGS titles, Pac-Man's got Pac-Land inspired stuff, and Ryu's got moves from games that never appeared on a Nintendo console. They're based off their franchise, not their Nintendo games.

Cloud's an iconic gaming character. He uses the abilities he had in FF7. It's not like they'd look at him and decide "if Cloud's in, he must be based off his sole appearance in a FF title on a Nintendo console, Theatrhythm." He'll be based off what he's known for best: Final Fantasy VII.

If Banjo were to be asked to get into Smash (something Microsoft execs have shown interest in), they're not going to say "he's not getting in, he's just on your handhelds because we don't have any". He's a legend from the N64 era, and it gives nearly every Banjo game a boost in desire from new fans. I can see it now, "Here's Banjo and Kazooie! You can learn more about them with Rare Replay on the Xbox One!". They have a character that people want, Nintendo has a game that exposes similar characters and boosts franchises to new heights, both companies benefit. Hell, if Sakurai asked them for Master Chief, they'd probably say yes.

Tl;dr: There are no limits, Cloud broke nothing because there was nothing in the first place.

I think the only thing Cloud did was make us realize the flexibility of the requirements.

I mean look how Sakurai has been.

Remember when he said he wasn't considering characters that were established in fighting games?

Sakurai does what he wants. For 10+ years we've been trying to figure out the method behind his madness.

There isn't one.

 

[Arcadenik]

Curveball quota? Haha haha... how many curveballs do you think we only needed in each game? Two? Three? Like Cloud said... limits are meant to be broken.

 

[APC99]

I'm just going to quote that GDC article Sakurai did during Brawl development, when he says characters, in order to be selected, must:

a. Display personality within their game.
b. Have something they specifically can do.
c. Be able to develop them with minimal problems / balance them with other characters in the game.
d. Distribution amongst franchises is considered. Emphasis on considered.

Curveball quota? Haha haha... how many curveballs do you think we only needed in each game? Two? Three? Like Cloud said... limits are meant to be broken.

Depends on what you call "curveball".

and, arguably, ? Those are characters that are curveballs, meant to be unpredictable.

, , , and other characters people didn't predict can't really be called curveballs when they're added for multiple reasons that aren't shock factor (Greninja being the newest Pokemon character, Ryu being THE fighting game character, Cloud being THE JRPG character). "Curveball reps" like this are just the majority of speculah overlooking them and denying them because they don't fit fan-made rules.

 

[TikiFan]

I read on some sites that besides Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy and Ryu, there will be only 6 DLC characters (on the 3DS, maybe there are more on the Wii) The just-announced Cloud is one of the six characters.
If you sort the roster properly, there must be exactly six characters are placed:

Color codes upper picture:
Blue = character available from the start
Red = character to be played first
Yellow = DLC character
NOTE: The characters with the smashball icon are characters which we do not know.
First row: Mario = we may get a DLC Mario character (Captain Toad?)
Second row: Donkey Kong / Zelda / Metroid = We will get a DLC character from one of those series (King K. Rool / Impa / Sylux?)
Third row: Kid Icarus / Fire Emblem / Punch Out / Not presented series = we get a character of this series (Viridi / Tiki / Glass Joe / Inkling?)
Fourth row: Kirby / Star Fox / Retro / F-Zero / Not presented series = we may get one of these characters (B. Waddle Dee / Wolf / Balloon Fighter / Black Shadow / Chorus Men.?)
Fifth row: Pokémon / Earthbound / Animal Crossing / Not-presented series = We get a character in this series (Pichu / Isabelle / Isaac?)
Fifth row: Pikmin / Wii X / Xenoblade / Third Party / Mii = cloud filled the free space, which means that no other character come out of this series.

This is my theory with regard to the DLC.

 

[Arcadenik]

cannot really be considered curveballs in SSB4 if we already expected them to come back.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

cannot really be considered curveballs in SSB4 if we already expected them to come back.

Lots of people were surprised ROB came back actually

 

[MYU2]

"We're going to meet the fairly difficult request , but Why ?
For more information , we will explain in the Smash Bros. special program of December delivery schedule ."

I don't about you guys but Sakurai might be saying that Cloud was chosen from the ballot

 

[SwordOfSeals]

Shovel Knight isn't iconic at all and the difference between him and Cloud is that Cloud is more profitable towards Nintendo in comparison to any wanted Nintendo character whereas the opposite is essentially true for Shovel Knight.

Then if Rayman came in who do think would be the last character? I'd think Snake, I'm no Shovel Knight supporter but I can't think of anymore characters for this damn game it's so packed already! With nintendos direction with DLC I don't see anymore veterans coming, but maybe someone popular from Nintendo, but my bets on Rayman due to his trophy in game, and that he can represent Ubisoft.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

"We're going to meet the fairly difficult request , but Why ?
For more information , we will explain in the Smash Bros. special program of December delivery schedule ."

I don't about you guys but Sakurai might be saying that Cloud was chosen from the ballot

You can't make this kind of character in 40 days, Cloud is most certainly not the Ballot Character
"A Request" could mean a lot of things ;
"A Request from Square Enix" for Example

 

[Joseppo]

Alright, now that everything has settled down a bit, I'm going to give my opinion on the announcement of Cloud. Of course, this is just an opinion, so you can skip this post and ignore it, or dislike with it entirely.


So, I think this is a master play from Nintendo. This is the first appearance of Cloud in HD (if I'm not mistaken), and it's on a Nintendo console. Also, the fact that he was unexpected and is a big name makes that people talk about him, and increases its repercussion. Both of this facts relate Cloud to Nintendo, so he isn't as "Sony exclusive" as it was before.

In addition to this, his addition helps in the relationship between Square Enix and Nintendo, most probably making that Square Enix is more eager in making games for Nintendo (probably will see this with the NX).

He is a popular character, so it's very possible that he will sell very well as DLC, giving profit to both companies and increasing Final Fantasy's popularity (if it wasn't popular enough yet).

And lastly, his inclussion could mean the release of the FF VII remake on the NX (this is just pure personal speculation, so I'm probably wrong, like, 99,5% chances I'm wrong on that).

So, in conclusion, I'm very happy of the inclusion of Cloud because it benefits both us, the players, and the companies involved in this.

 

[MYU2]

You can't make this kind of character in 40 days, Cloud is most certainly not the Ballot Character
"A Request" could mean a lot of things ;
"A Request from Square Enix" for Example

Who knows when they started working on Cloud. They might have began work on ballot characters when it was still going. And of course he's not "the ballot character" because there isn't just one winner, we might get multiple characters, he's just one of them. To your second point why would Square request for Cloud to be in Smash now?

 

[Deleted member]

Cloud being in Smash has only strengthend the relationship between. Sqaure Enix and Mintendo. With NX coming out next year this will only encourage them to put more games. Maybe even Final Fantasy 7 on the system.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Of course he's not "the ballot character" because there isn't just one winner, we might get multiple characters. To your second point why would Square request for Cloud to be in Smash now?

Marketing.This is going to make SE a bunch of money too, especially considering high sales for Cloud DLC is guarenteed

 

[MYU2]

Marketing.This is going to make SE a bunch of money too, especially considering high sales for Cloud DLC is guarenteed

That is a possibility but it's kind of odd that Square would approach Sakurai and say "Hey! Put Cloud in Smash so we can profit off the sales". It's likely plausible that Sakurai would approach Square and request for Cloud to be in Smash because of the ballot

 

[FalKoopa]

Who knows when they started working on Cloud. They might have began work on ballot characters when it was still going. And of course he's not "the ballot character" because there isn't just one winner, we might get multiple characters, he's just one of them. To your second point why would Square request for Cloud to be in Smash now?

For Cloud to start development early on, he must have had a head-start in the ballot. I'm pretty sure he didn't have that.

I think it's just a result of Nintendo teaming up with Square Enix - there was a ton of SE news in this Direct, so it could have just been another deal.