• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

General matchup thread.

Rango the Mercenary

The Mercenary
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,536
Location
Georgia
3DS FC
2320-6400-7280
Starting with Peach.

>Absolutely no hitlag on anything. Extremely hard to punish.
>Captain Falcon has no range. Peach has complete range and punishment on everything he does.
>Peach Bomber beats most of his moves from afar, especially punished.
>Turnip gimp on the range
>Uses low-float while you're recovering. Flies backwards to punish your short-ranged attacks

Definitely not Captain Falcon's favorite.
 

GdspdUblkprzdnt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
385
Location
Aguadilla, Puerto Rico
NNID
GdspdUblkprzdnt
How do you feel the MU against Samus is? Me and my friend put in some friendlies with this MU and we both feel it's in each other's favor ie. we can't agree who has the upper hand. Also the Shulk matchup? Shulk's moves have so much ending lag it's just a matter of dash dancing around, not commiting to anything and punishing whenever your opponent whiffs an aerial or a tilt/smash. I feel the Shulk matchup is greatly in Falcon's favor.
 

Rango the Mercenary

The Mercenary
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,536
Location
Georgia
3DS FC
2320-6400-7280
I wouldn't know. Haven't played one.

Ness is detrimental, though. Beats Falcon's aerials with range, can fish for kills (BThrow, Bair, FSmash, PK Thunder launch), can gimp you, and is hard to kill since he's smaller and can beat your Bair with any of his aerial options. FSmashing him is dangerous.
 

Barndo

Alaska TO/FGC Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
13
NNID
zenbakudon
How do you feel the MU against Samus is? Me and my friend put in some friendlies with this MU and we both feel it's in each other's favor ie. we can't agree who has the upper hand. Also the Shulk matchup? Shulk's moves have so much ending lag it's just a matter of dash dancing around, not commiting to anything and punishing whenever your opponent whiffs an aerial or a tilt/smash. I feel the Shulk matchup is greatly in Falcon's favor.
I can say with confidence that a good CF should be able to beat a Samus. I have a friend who mains Samus, and we spar very often. While Samus does have good range on Falcon, able to shoot missles at him to keep him at bay, Falcon also has his speed, so right after you launch with a throw or a dash attack, you can just sprint right up to where they may end up, so you can plan your counter attack.

The biggest issues is getting around those charge beams because of how large they are, and that is mostly just learning your opponent and reading the shots. Falcon's Bair and Nair both are fast enough to hit before most of Samus' air moves, so if you two are close, chances are you'll hit first and disrupt. One other thing to look out for, when trying to Uair juggle Samus, be careful of her Dair. One sweet Dair from Samus and you're done juggling.

Samus is also decently weighty, so if you're able to get her to the ledge around 50-60%+, you can gimp her with a well timed U-tilt meteor off the ledge.

I feel as if Captain Falcon vs. Samus is not *heavily* in anybody's favor, but if I had to put money on it, it'd be the Captain.
 

victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,275
Location
Edmonton
Slippi.gg
victra#0
I disagree that falcon doesn't have good range.
One other thing to look out for, when trying to Uair juggle Samus, be careful of her Dair. One sweet Dair from Samus and you're done juggling.
This is a misunderstanding. you can trade hits, which works in favor of falcon for a few reasons (very comparable to falcon vs falco mu in melee)

1. Samus will remain in the air while you can tech off the ground and reset yourself
2. Uair can kill, once again you can survive by teching off the ground
3. You have a guaranteed kill move at ~110% (raptor boost) on Samus and you can tank % much better than she can. % is more significant for Samus than it is for Falcon.

This idea is true for most match ups. In all Smash games, Uair has always been one of if not the best tool for Falcon.

I think Falcon still beats Peach just like in Melee. Yes she can edgeguard you, yes she can stuff some of your approaches. But you have

1. Superior range (Uair from below is still a very difficult and frustrating thing for Peach to deal with in this game)
2. Superior mobility
3. Punish game on Peach is weaker in this context, but so is hers
4. Raptor boost when she over commits will secure KOs where as Peach will have a hard time KOing since the only options she really has is f/usmash off a read, or fair (which will likely have staled, specially since they patched the fact that her float aerials didnt stale before.
 
Last edited:

Barndo

Alaska TO/FGC Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
13
NNID
zenbakudon
It's not so much Falcon has bad range, because some of his moves have incredible range. Dash grabs reach the heavens, raptor boost is fairly long. It's just that in terms of being able to poke at Falcon, Samus has slightly more range (explosion from Dtilt, Fair, Usmash are good examples), however these are not overbearing to deal with.

Perhaps I personally just need to practice teching a bit more, because those Dairs get me every once in a while...
 

MoonSheep

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Florida
3DS FC
5172-2399-7444
What do you guys think of kirby? I played a bunch against an awesome kirby with the tag tmy. Kirby can duck and avoid falcon kick, dash attack, up air, dash grab, all smash attacks. The main thing I could hit him with while ducking was downtilt.
 

Zol

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
191
Location
You're all nerds
Falcon vs. Little Mac seems almost even to me

but i still see it as being in Falcon's favor, Little Mac's got that ground game but i never seen one get up in the air much
 

BigLord

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
NNID
BiigLord
3DS FC
3024-7470-9499
Falcon vs. Little Mac seems almost even to me

but i still see it as being in Falcon's favor, Little Mac's got that ground game but i never seen one get up in the air much
I've been up against some really good Little Macs in Anther's Ladder, and as long as you play it cool and remember his weaknesses (being juggled, being thrown offstage then gimped) you're golden.
Just don't forget to BAIT HIM OUT unless you'd like a Knee of Justice countered back at you (it happened to me, wasn't pretty). Also, his best approach while falling down is the counter. Use it to your advantage.


Ness matchup is a nightmare. Gave me PMSD.
I... haven't played a very good Ness so far, but I'm afraid to ask. What're their options on us?
 

abit_rusty

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
1,544
Location
East Lansing, MI
NNID
Rontuaru
3DS FC
2895-8974-0662
I... haven't played a very good Ness so far, but I'm afraid to ask. What're their options on us?
The question is what isn't an option?
- side-b to stuff out our fairly one dimensional approach
- floaty enough to mitigate juggle potential
- stupid priority on his nair
- strong KO moves in the form of uair and bthrow
- strong juggle game in the form of fair
- easy setup for KOs or juggles if side b lands
- strong edgeguard game with up+b against falcon's predictable recovery

Ness is honestly one of the best characters in the game but damn it if it doesn't feel hopeless facing a competent, patient one.
 

BakiThaG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
83
Location
Laurel, Maryland
Yeah the ness matchup is pretty bad. So far I've had trouble with him and Rosalina for obvious reasons. It's hard to approach a patient one, you'll get stuffed by dash attacks and fsmashes
 

opplemobl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
20
Yesterday I was having a lot of trouble vs Bowser Jr and Duck Hunt. The Bowser Jr only approached me twice in 5 matches, and those were the only times I came close to winning. I was able to win pretty quickly when I switched to Sheik but I have no idea how to combat a BJ who doesn't approach when I'm using the Captain. Anyone have tips?
 

victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,275
Location
Edmonton
Slippi.gg
victra#0
It's not so much Falcon has bad range, because some of his moves have incredible range. Dash grabs reach the heavens, raptor boost is fairly long. It's just that in terms of being able to poke at Falcon, Samus has slightly more range (explosion from Dtilt, Fair, Usmash are good examples), however these are not overbearing to deal with.

Perhaps I personally just need to practice teching a bit more, because those Dairs get me every once in a while...
Yeah but those moves have awful priority and are pretty bad moves in general save for fair. Range doesn't necessarily mean how long-ranged moves like Falcon's dash grab and raptor boost. Falcon has long range on his poke options as well like uair, bair, dair, and pivot ftilt.

Yesterday I was having a lot of trouble vs Bowser Jr and Duck Hunt. The Bowser Jr only approached me twice in 5 matches, and those were the only times I came close to winning. I was able to win pretty quickly when I switched to Sheik but I have no idea how to combat a BJ who doesn't approach when I'm using the Captain. Anyone have tips?
Camping characters are fairly easy for Falcon to deal with relative to the rest of the cast because of his fast and long dash. What you can do is dash forward and then you can cancel your dash with shield appropriately. You can quickly close the gab on projectile spammers while keeping stage control. Once you're in you can get some damage in, just be sure to control the stage and don't give up your positional advantage (keep them close and don't give up center stage) otherwise it'll reset and you'll have to work to get in again.

It's easy against BJ since you can pick up his downb and his b is slow enough that its fairly negligible as Falcon. Duck Hunt is definitely tougher, his sideb requires you to hold shield a lot longer, his b is great for zoning, and his downb is just another thing you need to watch out for.
Falcon vs. Little Mac seems almost even to me

but i still see it as being in Falcon's favor, Little Mac's got that ground game but i never seen one get up in the air much
I would put Falcon over Lil Mac as well. Once Lil Mac is in the air is options really are limited and you can frame trap. Super easy to force a second jump or an airdodge and to punish accordingly. You can also dtilt his sideb as a depressingly free edgeguard. (Lil Mac is very reminiscent of Snake in Brawl).
 
Last edited:

Gardex

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
1,521
Location
Gjøvik/Trondheim, Norway
NNID
Gardex
3DS FC
2707-1617-4394
Another great tool Falcon has against Little Mac, that only Ganondorf shares, is that he has a command grab with great diagonal and vertical reach, meaning he can not only extend combos, but continue strings even when Little Mac throws out a slip counter.
 

Zol

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
191
Location
You're all nerds
i wish for glory wasn't just a bunch of different versions of FD

i guarantee i'd do loads better against Little Mac (and various others) if i had some platforms to jump around

mario's really weird to play against using falcon, since more than half the time, it just turns into two players repeatedly jumping and tossing moves/dodging in the air in hopes that either a move hits, or they avoid one

i literally just got in the habit of saying "**** it" and outright avoiding mario until he stops jumping
 
Last edited:

Zol

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
191
Location
You're all nerds
Oh definitely. Strike and/or ban Final Destination/Omegas against Little Mac. Platforms are a godsend
ey, not even just little mac

dont forget Pac-Man, MegaMan and Duck Hunt, generally campy characters with too many projectiles

as falcon i can handle them but i aint doing as good as i should be
 

BigLord

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
NNID
BiigLord
3DS FC
3024-7470-9499
Falcon in general fares well when you have at least one platform to mix up your approaches. I usually ban FD or similar stages, unless my opponent has no projectiles.
 

jay-tee

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
27
I always have problems with those with more aerial priority attacks than the Captain Falcon. Like Ness and Pit, the match-up is not impossible but is really hard, specially that Ness. At higher percentages, he makes a PK Fire a kill with the backthrow.
 
Last edited:

Zol

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
191
Location
You're all nerds
Falcon in general fares well when you have at least one platform to mix up your approaches. I usually ban FD or similar stages, unless my opponent has no projectiles.
which stage would you consider the best for falcon against keep-away players

i aint really had a chance to play on a lot of stages outside random online matches, but winning isnt my main priority in "For Fun" so i never got a chance to get an actual feel for every stage
 

BigLord

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
NNID
BiigLord
3DS FC
3024-7470-9499
Do yourself a favor and join a matchmaking site, like Anther's ladder. I've had so much practice in there :)

Best stages for Falcon, imo, are Battlefield and Yoshi's island. Lumiose City can be good sometimes, too.
 

Gameboi834

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
1,108
NNID
Gameboi834
How do I deal with a Shulk that has a great aerial game, to the point where it gimps both my air and ground assaults?
 

BigLord

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
NNID
BiigLord
3DS FC
3024-7470-9499
Let him approach, shield his godtier nair, shield-grab him and then throw him for some Uair pain.
 

Ebbit

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
31
Location
Wenatchee, Washington
NNID
Shipwreck
3DS FC
4313-1831-9997
I hate sonics so much, i dont even know why i cant beat them. I just cant seem to hit them out of their b.
I might just be bad at smash though.
 
Last edited:

MoonSheep

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Florida
3DS FC
5172-2399-7444
I hate sonics so much, i dont even know why i cant beat them. I just cant seem to hit them out of their b.
I might just be bad at smash though.
I hate sonic also, the character is annoying as hell to fight. Our airgame beats his, which is important to remember. I personally think that sonic is a bad matchup for falcon, maybe someone knows some trick that makes him really easy to beat.
 

Gameboi834

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
1,108
NNID
Gameboi834
I hate sonics so much, i dont even know why i cant beat them. I just cant seem to hit them out of their b.
For this, roll behind the arc (if they're coming from high in the the air) near the last seconds and prepare an elbow or a foot.
 

Mrwhatzitooya

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
202
I think Falcon's matchups can almost be sorted into the three categories of brawler, swordsman and gunners. From what I've seen, Falcon is amazing against other brawlers (master of hand-to hand combat that he is), swordsman are more troublesome (due to slightly more range but generally manageable), and gunners are downright frustrating.

Then of course, there's the campers... -_- They probably need to be in a fourth group; infuriating...
 

victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,275
Location
Edmonton
Slippi.gg
victra#0
I think Falcon handles campers better than most characters because of how fast he can close the gab. If you think of it from the campers perspective, it's very hard to camp and keep your distance from someone who can close that distance quickly.

I hate sonics so much, i dont even know why i cant beat them. I just cant seem to hit them out of their b.
I might just be bad at smash though.
Hold jab.

When sonic hits you while he's spinning, it'll clank and everything will reset again. You can jab him every time he comes at you with spin and it'll stop him right in his tracks.

What's hilarious is if he's charging spin from somewhere on the stage, you can literally just stand there holding jab and he's going to have to do something different. It's also great cause you can drop the jab asap and reposition yourself.
 
Last edited:

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
shiek....how....how on earth do we handle this...THING. seriously shiek in smash4 is ridiculous, an Fair that has zero lag, practically everything(including itself) combos into it, lots of her moves combo quite easily into each other, AND she's got a quick projectile to boot.....

seriously its almost like melee sheik came back with vengeance....
 

KeketheBasedCat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
92
Location
Frederick, MD
shiek....how....how on earth do we handle this...THING. seriously shiek in smash4 is ridiculous, an Fair that has zero lag, practically everything(including itself) combos into it, lots of her moves combo quite easily into each other, AND she's got a quick projectile to boot.....

seriously its almost like melee sheik came back with vengeance....
I don't have much experience versus sheiks who really know what they're doing, but in my experience getting the first kill is a huge part of this matchup. Since sheik has such a hard time killing (fair just simply isn't a kill move anymore), you'll be able to get a solid amount of damage on their second stock before they finally take your first stock. If she takes the first stock though, then there's a good chance you'll be at 50-60% before you can take her first stock. Also, her bair seems to be the only one that can't be shieldgrabbed if spaced correctly (again, I might be wrong here since I don't play the greatest sheiks). When she's above us, she's like most of rest of the cast in that she doesn't have anything in particular that can beat uair, besides airdodge and dair. Airdodging the first uair of course guarantees the second one, and dair is mega-punishable if you read it (or even if you don't, depending on how close to ground you were when you got hit with it).
All in all, I think this matchup is A. a ton of fun and B. maybe very slightly in falcon's favor, but that's just my opinion.
 

BigLord

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
NNID
BiigLord
3DS FC
3024-7470-9499
A good Sheik is indeed a monster. I find that the only way to reliably beat a good Sheik is to force her to approach, somehow :\ and then punish.

Speaking of which, what're your thoughts on Bowser? It was nearly equal in Brawl, slightly to our favor, but now Bowser has been practicing and he's waaaaay tougher and faster.

I can beat good Bowsers, but only by remaining on defensive and punishing mistakes (and whenever there's an opening, dash-grab -> combos).
 

Scruffy_Scoundrel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
122
Location
NJ
NNID
Scruffy_Avenger
3DS FC
1805-3603-6917
I'm having trouble with the diddy match up as well, my falling u airs don't connect with him because he's too short and that's kind of the heart of my falcon. One thing I have noticed however is that Falcon's up smash can pull diddy in like a windmill if spaced properly, I've been using it to catch diddy off guard but I'm not sure how viable an option it would be against a tourney level diddy
 

KeketheBasedCat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
92
Location
Frederick, MD
I'm having trouble with the diddy match up as well, my falling u airs don't connect with him because he's too short and that's kind of the heart of my falcon. One thing I have noticed however is that Falcon's up smash can pull diddy in like a windmill if spaced properly, I've been using it to catch diddy off guard but I'm not sure how viable an option it would be against a tourney level diddy
You can definitely hit diddy with a falling uair, it's just a much shorter window than the humanoid/bigger characters in the game. And yeah, I think usmash connects with diddy's big nose to give it deceptive range
 

jahkzheng

Smash Lord
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,653
Location
Northern California
Was curious on what people's opinions on the Link matchup are?

...

I've only fought what I'd call a good one once and it was a bit of a handful I wasn't expecting....

The Link would usually try to fill the air with his projectiles as I tried to approach. Getting in wasn't too hard, although annoying, but once I was close enough to attack I usually met Link's jab. Like Link's fsmash, it felt like the jab could be staggered and I failed a few times at shielding it. It also kept me back from him pretty well where I couldn't reach with any move safely. He also fsmashed where he'd swing once and hold off on his second waiting for me to shield drop or approach too early to get the second swing, or too late at which point I'd get the jab again. Retreating was punished with his nice dash attack, but I didn't do that too often and he didn't punish it but a couple times anyways, but it's effectiveness was memorable. Rolling behind him was often responded to with him utilting, usmashing, or inputing a ftilt toward me. He read me well admittedly and my trouble was more with the player than the character, but there's no doubting that Link has some nice tools.

My best approach option was usually dash into jump and dair between projectiles. Dair kept me above him better than nair which his jab could still reach a lot of times before it fully landed. His options against dair were just too slow for the most part other than shield. I failed to land bair a lot just by falling too fast or spacing poorly but I have to think it would be a good option if I didn't fail so bad with it in these matches, heh. My follow ups after getting that first hit were usually dash attack, and when the damage was good enough, uairs and other aerials. By the time I was popping him up well he'd punish aggressive uairing with his own dair, so I had to keep that in the back of my mind. I was disappointed that the times I baited him to dair that I couldn't seem to get a good punish in upon him landing. He also did well not to be gimped. Link's recovery is much much better than it's ever been I'd say.

Basically, he wasn't too bad, but he did beat me the majority of the time. I mostly blame myself doing something dumb towards the end of the match at the exact wrong moment for the loses, but he did capitalize well on my mistakes and read me quite well. And I read him less well and was disappointed I didn't punish him better, often from just inputting poorly or being positioned bad. Some more time with a good Link could swing to my advantage with enough practice and less mistakes. Just couldn't manage it well in a 5 or so round effort.
 
Top Bottom