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Data General Match-Up Discussion Thread (ask about matchups here!)

Bkomel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
373
Location
Hayward
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Bkomel
3DS FC
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I have a strange MU question. How do you fight a player who plays at least as defensive as you, and has projectiles? I've been fighting this trap heavy Pac-man, and it's hard to get a solid hit in. Let alone win a set.
 

ExiaPilotDedede

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
79
I have a strange MU question. How do you fight a player who plays at least as defensive as you, and has projectiles? I've been fighting this trap heavy Pac-man, and it's hard to get a solid hit in. Let alone win a set.
Practice power shielding the projectiles. For characters like samus or pac who spam projectiles and run away, I usually dash at them, power shield the projectile and then either continue my dash or move into a jump approach. I've heard that anytime you are in the air in smash 4 you are at a disadvantage, but I think that is less true as Dedede since we can fast fall -> jump to bait a shield then go for the real hit after they try to punish. So simply jumping over the projectiles is an option as Dedede. Sadly the fact that even cherries will reflect Gordo makes it less desirable for protecting an approach, so avoid gordos unless you are a long ways out and know you can get the re-reflect or shield in time.
 

Flawed

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
174
Location
Georgia
NNID
TheFlawedOne
How do you guys feel the Bayonetta matchup is now?

It used to be a cake walk, when I could kill D3 with a single dtilt at 0%, now I actually find myself having to actually fight D3 and its terrifying. I almost lose all the time against him, however it seems D3 is either too fat, or something that he still kind of gets locked in a specific ladder combo, and thats what saves me.
 

ExiaPilotDedede

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
79
How do you guys feel the Bayonetta matchup is now?

It used to be a cake walk, when I could kill D3 with a single dtilt at 0%, now I actually find myself having to actually fight D3 and its terrifying. I almost lose all the time against him, however it seems D3 is either too fat, or something that he still kind of gets locked in a specific ladder combo, and thats what saves me.
Just focus on rapid jab, serious, you can get so much damage off it since it takes D3 so long to get out of.
 

Incoleo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
32
Location
Utah
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incoleo
Does anyone have tips on the jigglypuff matchup?? I fought one last night and I had NO idea what to do :U
 

Axel311

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
575
NNID
axel311
Does anyone have tips on the jigglypuff matchup?? I fought one last night and I had NO idea what to do :U
You mainly want to wall her out with bair and force her to approach. Play super passive. Don't ever approach puff, there's no reason to. Be careful with gordos, puff's fair is super good for reflecting them.
 
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Muskrat Catcher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
486
Location
Aliso Viejo, California
3DS FC
0748-4100-0093
Does anyone have tips on the jigglypuff matchup?? I fought one last night and I had NO idea what to do :U
Jigglypuff is IMO our best matchup, but it is still only around 65:35, which means that if you don't capitalize on your advantages, you will get punished big time, that advantage being range, and that punish being rest. We can play defensive against Jiggs, which means we can make it very hard for her to get hits in, especially her rest setups since most are the late hit of an aerial into rest, so you can see it coming when Jiggs starts up the aerial, and react. Also Jiggs basically cannot edgeguard us, which is great considering she relies on edgeguards in a lot of matchups. Now remember, we are a huge and easy target to rest, and from the ground of FD we die around 80%. So until you get to 70%, you have very little to worry about, since Jiggs can't punish well outside of rest, and if Jiggs rests early, we can fast fall F-smash, or charge a jet hammer on the way down and kill puff very early. However, once you get to 70%, respect the puff! Don't do anything risky, and watch the Jiggs player. They will likely be fishing for rest setups or reads. Don't roll off ledge, stuff those setups, and don't do anything too laggy, like F-smash gordo traps at the ledge, and you should be fine. Oh, and also, if you can get a few footstools as an edgeguard, do it. It is hilarous and rewarding!
 
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Eddie The Pacifist

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,750
Location
Zelda Social
Ganon is definitely our best matchup. Charazard is also very easy. We would absolutely destroy Jigg if Hitstun Canceling existed, but it doesn't so it's more even.
 

ExiaPilotDedede

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
79
Ganon is definitely our best matchup. Charazard is also very easy. We would absolutely destroy Jigg if Hitstun Canceling existed, but it doesn't so it's more even.
I actually disagree with that, it might just be my playstyle, but I find that Gannon's Dair trumps our UpB very well and I get spiked a lot! I think Bowser is an easier match up since his range is so short and he can't cover as much distance like gannon can with sideB or downB so he's easier to camp out with gordos and zone with f-tilt and d-tilt.
 

Eddie The Pacifist

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,750
Location
Zelda Social
I actually disagree with that, it might just be my playstyle, but I find that Gannon's Dair trumps our UpB very well and I get spiked a lot! I think Bowser is an easier match up since his range is so short and he can't cover as much distance like gannon can with sideB or downB so he's easier to camp out with gordos and zone with f-tilt and d-tilt.
One of the few good things about Dedede is that he has surprisingly good matchups against the heavyweights. None actually defeat him imo. Maybe I exaggerated with Dorf. But I think we still win slightly
 

Axel311

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
575
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axel311
Ganon is definitely our best matchup. Charazard is also very easy. We would absolutely destroy Jigg if Hitstun Canceling existed, but it doesn't so it's more even.
Na, I think puff is D3's best matchup. I do think D3 beats Zard and Ganon but it's probably something like 55-45. We don't win by much. Especially against Zard now, he's been buffed a lot.
 
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Muskrat Catcher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
486
Location
Aliso Viejo, California
3DS FC
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Yeah, I mean dorf is a good matchup for us, don't get me wrong, but he can even kill us before we even know it. If he gets side B and reads your tech, you can die at like 70. Basically Ganon has the ability to kill us super early, like 3X as early as we normally live. He needs a read to do it though, and if he doesn't get that read he can't do much at all. I would still probably rate him 2nd best, just behind puff.
I can't say much about Zard because even though I secondary him, I have never played another good Zard (I knew I should have asked Draquaza for friendlies when I saw him)
 

Eddie The Pacifist

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
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The :4charizard: is one of my favorites.King Dedede can punish :4charizard: like he's Vlad the impaler. Zard also has problems avoiding Gordo's. Unlike Ganon, who can kill you with a quick f-tilt, Zard's finishers are incredibly slow (Albeit this is for every character, not just King Dedede) and as I said, can give a Dedede an enormous opening. Similar to King Dedede, Zard thrives on Matchup inexperience, which when it comes to Zard I fortunately don't possess. Don't take my words too seriously because I actually think :4jigglypuff:vs:4dedede: is in Jigglypuff's favor, so I'm obviously not the best to ask
 

Incoleo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
32
Location
Utah
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incoleo
Hey!! So idk if this is common knowledge, but I found something out in my last tournament: inhale actually beats out sonic spindash??? Idk how consistent it is but I was doing it against one of ours when he was trying to punish my landings and it worked out pretty well for me ouo
 

Eddie The Pacifist

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,750
Location
Zelda Social
Hey!! So idk if this is common knowledge, but I found something out in my last tournament: inhale actually beats out sonic spindash??? Idk how consistent it is but I was doing it against one of ours when he was trying to punish my landings and it worked out pretty well for me ouo
Yes, that surprised me when I found out! Inhale always beats Spin Dash. However, they can cancel it into Homing Attack, so be wary. Don't worry too much as MOST Sonics are stupid. There are smart ones, so be very wary when facing a Sonic in tournament
 

Muskrat Catcher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
486
Location
Aliso Viejo, California
3DS FC
0748-4100-0093
Hey!! So idk if this is common knowledge, but I found something out in my last tournament: inhale actually beats out sonic spindash??? Idk how consistent it is but I was doing it against one of ours when he was trying to punish my landings and it worked out pretty well for me ouo
This is indeed a good mixup, but after the first time, the Sonic should learn and adapt, and just jump out of spindash before they reach you and get a free punish due to inhale's ridiculous end lag. That's when you read their jump and go for an aerial, and so on and so forth in the game of mixups and mindgames. Inhale is just a nice addition to that arsenal of options.
 
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