General Mafia theory discussion

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Is it better to follow your intuition or pursue logic? Every time where I just went with my intuition, I was correct. Everytime I overthought, I was wrong. I know that isn't always the case but I just feel like you can lose yourself on petty details and you should always focus on your original reads, it just happened in [redacted] when I was massively right.

 

[ranmaru]

I have heard people say that they are correct when regarding their gut, but when regarding their logic, that they were wrong.

Hopefully it's a coincidence, because how else can you get that person lynched if you follow only your gut? (Like "vote: soup, cuz gut")

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If your gut is right, there must be evidence to back it up. If someone is scum, there's something to use against that person.

Gut, in the end, is just your brain processing more data unconsciously than consciously. You just gotta catch up with your unconscious.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What do people think of hydra and their influence on mafia?

Like two people on a hydra has two people working together over people working alone?

How it can influence play and reads because it is essentially a player that is only there when those two are together.

And the pro and cons of a hydra.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Is it better to follow your intuition or pursue logic? Every time where I just went with my intuition, I was correct. Everytime I overthought, I was wrong. I know that isn't always the case but I just feel like you can lose yourself on petty details and you should always focus on your original reads, it just happened in [redacted] when I was massively right.

If that's the way you think ... then it probably just means that your logic isn't good enough.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Most people have **** logic on this site though.

Hydras themselves are a tricky beast. I don't think they're broken or ridiculous though because the only way a hydra actually improves two players is when those two players synergize well. I can hydra with Ryker and Gorf really well because I work with them really well. I can't hydra with someone like marshy because we approach the game so differently that we'd spend half the game tripping over each other. There was a brief period where anyone would hydra with anyone, now you tend to see a lot of the familiar hydras over and over again (AM, Lego*******es, No Lynch, RadFic, Marshmellowman will probably become a mainstay).

How they impact gameplay depends on how good of a hydra they are. Good hydras will tear a game apart (Chuckie!). Bad ones will continue to trip over themselves and poor decision-making cased by confusion within the hydra can distract town pretty well. Doesn't mean they're unstoppable or ridiculous like anyone makes them out to be.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I asked mostly because of how a lot of sites don't allow this kind of stuff usually, and I see the pros an cons to it since there is a good to hydras but at the same time I do see problems with them in the sense careful with how it can change a game flow with improvement of play or huge deterioration.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wouldn't the pros outweigh the cons if you massclaim immediately in a game without VTs?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Depends on the set-up.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I doubt it, I think it's almost impossible for the mafia to play along 'accordingly' if they have to tailor a fake role from the start and have all NAs match, ideally.

 

[Swiss]

^ What mod would make a game where a mass claim breaks it?

Also the risk involved to town by claiming would be horrific. I wouldn't want to be either faction in that game.

 

[Overswarm]

It would be easy as hell for scum to beat a closed game after a mass claim.

"I claim bulletproof"

Well damn.

Or any of the other million iterations.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I doubt it, I think it's almost impossible for the mafia to play along 'accordingly' if they have to tailor a fake role from the start and have all NAs match, ideally.

Then the mod ****ed up to allow that to happen.

And what Swiss said.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

It would be easy as hell for scum to beat a closed game after a mass claim.

"I claim bulletproof"

Well damn.

Or any of the other million iterations.

From recent experience, a lot of people seem to suspect any BP claims. Most people don't really use them as town roles, just a bunch of indies.

In general, any mod worth their salt won't host a vanilla-less game without throwing in a bunch of misdirection. Gigabots was nearly perfect at this if it weren't for the ****ing flavor claims being bad.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i think you guys give the mods of smashboards too much credit

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

If I got the okay, I'd love to have some kind of a guide going over game design for newer mods, but I'd need that okay first.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

No offense laundry, but if a guide is made, it should have input from a multitude of mods. A guide written by one mods will almost certainly be biased in some areas.

 

[Swiss]

There is no 'guide' imo.

Make sure every faction has an equal chance of winning.
Make sure skill not luck determines the winning faction.

GG a good game.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

You think newbies are going to have a good definition of "equal chance of winning?"

 

[JTB]

all vanilla roles

there, its balanced

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If all vanilla means mountainious that is heavily scym favored.

 

[Swiss]

You think newbies are going to have a good definition of "equal chance of winning?"

You think a guide can really show what's balanced?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Far more than whatever a newbie thinks is balanced.

 

[X1-12]

It'd be worth writing something to make new hosts think more about their set-ups

 

[Spaghebti]

If I got the okay, I'd love to have some kind of a guide going over game design for newer mods, but I'd need that okay first.

don't listen to DH.

go ahead and make a guide. if the mods think its good they'll sticky it or link to it in the signup thread, after making whatever changes they want

 

[Overswarm]

Don't write on what is balanced. Most people here don't understand balance and think it has to fit into a certain pattern to be legitimate. If they have to play a different way for optimal results they consider that "not balanced".

If you want to be helpful, create a "common issues new hosts run into" thread and warn about games featuring too many vanilla roles, games with too many/too few scum, follow the cop games with no recourse save for "kill the doc randomly", anticipating how many day and night phases your game will have, etc.

 

[John2k4]

Just a quick thought that crossed my mind: A role that gives a day-power of locking all the votes to their targets.

Those who had placed their vote could not move it, and those who had not voted would be the only ones able to vote for the rest of that Day.

 

[Swiss]

Just a quick thought that crossed my mind: A role that gives a day-power of locking all the votes to their targets.

Those who had placed their vote could not move it, and those who had not voted would be the only ones able to vote for the rest of that Day.

This is used as default for some mafia sites.

Not sure to what benefit this would give any alignment as a one off ability - unless it was anti-town and no-one else knew it was in action (bs modding).

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I actually already have a guide typed out on how to do it and I think it'd be good for people to look over it. Should definitely have one of those cuz I agree totally with Macman @mods getting too much credit. Rockin, Overswarm and I are the only mods -imo- that have proven themselves to consistently host good games [other hosts are pending but like Raziek hasn't hosted that much yet so it's up in the air].

BP claims are fishy as **** and nobody should be able to ride that crap into endgame. Don't like any of the arguments against the instant-massclaim idea so far.

 

[Swiss]

> mfw anyone thinks OS has proved that

Plenty of reliable mods on dgames.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Forgot about Gova, he also does pretty well as a host. The others haven't hosted enough to prove it.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

> mfw anyone thinks OS has proved that

Plenty of reliable mods on dgames.

word

 

[BarDulL]

Town Magician - Upon being lynched, the Town Magician can save himself and instead have the last person he or she was voting for take his or her place (or alternatively, was thinking of making the person with the second most amount of votes be lynched, and/or give Town Magician the ability to force a no lynch), subsequently having that person be lynched instead. The Town Magician may only do this once throughout the game. Ability use is mod confirmed in the lynch post.

Sort of like Governor, but pretty limited. Good/Bad? Based it on the Dark Magician and the Mystic Box. Was thinking that this would be a nice substitute for Governor considering most people feel Governor is too powerful as is.

 

[Swiss]

Not a fan.

 

[BarDulL]

I think it's ok considering Town Magician can only save himself as opposed to anyone in the game, so his power is limited. But switching the lynch over to someone else seems to be the big issue.

Ok, what about this? Remove the lynch switch mechanic, and just let the Town Magician live. Day phase continues as normal. Also give Town a 24 hour extension. So Town has the option of a second lynch, it's just that now the Town Magician can't be voted for. Yay/Nay?

Was considering allowing the Town Magician to prevent a lynch from occurring on any player and forcing Town to have a second lynch. Don't know if that's too powerful though.

 

[Swiss]

Unless you're suggesting you'd make or consider the same role for a scum player, you would confirm them town, so the unlynchable part is irrelevant. If you would give this scum potential, then wtf nerf.

This is a mod confirmed day ability so you have to be more careful than usual.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

My role idea (not really but when I thought it I couldn`t stop laughing at it`s op-ness)

Town-Marshy :

Abilities : 3rd degree Swag

You are town marshy, salty-*** mafia player and hella swag master, each of these abilities unless stated otherwise are 1 shot

1) Swag kill : During the day or Night phase you may choose one player to Swag kill, if your swag kill lands scum you will be given a swag reload for one more swag kill. If your swag kill lands town, you die along with it. Indies will be treated as a scum land. With the command *in bold* SWAG KILL: *X player name here*.

2) We town bros : One time only ( Night Phase) you may whisper to another player : We town bros. If the player is a town bro they will become confirmed town-bro. and you will be confirmed to them, If you whisper to scum you will be killed in place of whoever there target was. Indies will result in net zero.
With the command via PM : We Town Bros: *Y player name here*

Knowing my luck this is either :

A) already a role type
b) extremely similar to an existing role
c) something only a crazy person would put into a game , were people to like it XD

 

[BarDulL]

Unless you're suggesting you'd make or consider the same role for a scum player, you would confirm them town, so the unlynchable part is irrelevant. If you would give this scum potential, then wtf nerf.

This is a mod confirmed day ability so you have to be more careful than usual.

That's true. It's not like anyone would kill someone confirmed Town already.

Then again, by escaping a lynch and mod confirming it (although I'm not sure if alignment should be revealed, but for now I'm going with yes it should), people can reflect on this information after a magician lynch, and then make use of it for another lynch on that same day, so there's some kind of point for the late reveal. So I could just phrase it as "vote count has been reset" as opposed to "magician can't be lynched" and that would be a wrap.

Wasn't considering scum potential honestly, primarily Town 'cause I like Town more

Eh, I'll put some more thought into it later.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

No offense laundry, but if a guide is made, it should have input from a multitude of mods. A guide written by one mods will almost certainly be biased in some areas.

Actually, you're right. I'd like to have more opinions in at least some areas because there are certain things I do that no mod ever does and I'm sure that's not the same too.

There is no 'guide' imo.

Make sure every faction has an equal chance of winning.
Make sure skill not luck determines the winning faction.

GG a good game.

Tell a rookie host that, he'll have no idea how to do what you're asking of him, I'm guessing.

You think a guide can really show what's balanced?

Certainly can show how not to make a game imbalanced.

Don't write on what is balanced. Most people here don't understand balance and think it has to fit into a certain pattern to be legitimate. If they have to play a different way for optimal results they consider that "not balanced".

If you want to be helpful, create a "common issues new hosts run into" thread and warn about games featuring too many vanilla roles, games with too many/too few scum, follow the cop games with no recourse save for "kill the doc randomly", anticipating how many day and night phases your game will have, etc.

Certainly!

Just a quick thought that crossed my mind: A role that gives a day-power of locking all the votes to their targets.

Those who had placed their vote could not move it, and those who had not voted would be the only ones able to vote for the rest of that Day.

Given how quickly people throw votes in the day phase, you'd either have to restrict that thing to working only in the first 24 hours of a day phase or else it'd be the dumbest thing ever.

Granted, ramping a lynch up to L-2 and locking everyone's votes on there would be a decent scum tactic. I'd have to think marshy would enjoy the **** out of this if he used it correctly.

Town Magician - Upon being lynched, the Town Magician can save himself and instead have the last person he or she was voting for take his or her place (or alternatively, was thinking of making the person with the second most amount of votes be lynched, and/or give Town Magician the ability to force a no lynch), subsequently having that person be lynched instead. The Town Magician may only do this once throughout the game. Ability use is mod confirmed in the lynch post.

Sort of like Governor, but pretty limited. Good/Bad? Based it on the Dark Magician and the Mystic Box. Was thinking that this would be a nice substitute for Governor considering most people feel Governor is too powerful as is.

I tend to shy away from this Saint-esque roles because I don't like what they do. They're a nerf to town that could potentially swing it to be a huge gain for town, all based on a lucky lynch mechanic. It could be a serious punishment to scum for successfully lynching a townie and I don't like that.

And the way they work is atrocious. The second you claim, no one's touching you ever. If you refuse to claim, you're way more likely to nail a townie who finds you legitimately suspicious for wanting to use your role than scum.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My role idea (not really but when I thought it I couldn`t stop laughing at it`s op-ness)

Town-Marshy :

Abilities : 3rd degree Swag

You are town marshy, salty-*** mafia player and hella swag master, each of these abilities unless stated otherwise are 1 shot

1) Swag kill : During the day or Night phase you may choose one player to Swag kill, if your swag kill lands scum you will be given a swag reload for one more swag kill. If your swag kill lands town, you die along with it. Indies will be treated as a scum land. With the command *in bold* SWAG KILL: *X player name here*.

2) We town bros : One time only ( Night Phase) you may whisper to another player : We town bros. If the player is a town bro they will become confirmed town-bro. and you will be confirmed to them, If you whisper to scum you will be killed in place of whoever there target was. Indies will result in net zero.
With the command via PM : We Town Bros: *Y player name here*

Knowing my luck this is either :

A) already a role type
b) extremely similar to an existing role
c) something only a crazy person would put into a game , were people to like it XD

Allow me to fix that

Spoiler

"all i want to do is lynch *****es, why are we still in dayphase"

Welcome to the game, Anomandaris_Rake!

You are marshy, town ballerator.

You fear no man or capitilized word, scum gets scared by just your prescence and you know it. Your swag is unmatched and you will always be a force to be reckoned with, you get **** done when you need to and nobody goes against your word, you have something that most players don't have, respect.

Abilities:

"**** outta hear": Each day, you may kill one player, if they flip town, you lose your daykill ability and you die alongside the person you shot, however, if you shoot scum you are granted another bullet.

"/brofist": at night you may send a command to /brofist someone, they will then be informed that they were /brofisted and you will open a quick topic with them, you may only use this ability once

Restriction:

you must post without capilization and you must vote someone in every post you make

you are town aligned and win when all threats to the town are eliminated