General Mafia theory discussion

[Swiss]

Like if you're a doc and are planning anything other than the current night action you're an imbecile, but an SK has to think much further ahead.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That's why I said past night actions etc. Just, game plan and stuff like that.

 

[Swiss]

I don't understand your question.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

"hey im gonna make this post how do i make it look good so i get the reactions that i want"

ever think that?

 

[Swiss]

Well, yeah. That's mafia.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I just post whatever my mood dictates :x

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

if you're letting your mood dominate your logic, you're doing it wrong

 

[John2k4]

If you're posting your mood, that will be posting AtE in some cases.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

if you're letting your mood dominate your logic, you're doing it wrong

When did I say that my mood dominated my logic?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I just post whatever my mood dictates :x

Kinda connotes that your posts' content are completely subject to your mood.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That doesn't mean I disregard logic. It's just that I do not plan to appeal to someone on the long run ever or really think about how my post gets read by others overall.

Sorry for trouble with thoughts > words here. Nothing new there though

 

[vanderzant]

I definitely play like that too Xonar. If I post something, I'll never think "Xonar is gonna react to my XXX with a YYY, and then I can ZZZ." I just take posts as they come and react accordingly.

Cello is the most obvious person I can think of who does what you're talking about (and he takes it to a crazy level).

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

A balance of both is ideal. You can't be second-guessing every post you make, but you do need to gear your posts towards their audience.

For example, Xonar, pretty sure I never take your posts how you'd like me to.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

A balance of both is ideal. You can't be second-guessing every post you make, but you do need to gear your posts towards their audience.

For example, Xonar, pretty sure I never take your posts how you'd like me to.

This man gets it.

 

[BarDulL]

I've seen a lot of games in Dgames, and I've noticed that certain roles (specifically Jester, Lyncher, Contract Hitman, Rouge, Governor) are prohibited more often than not, and I was wondering why this is the case.

Is it because they are obnoxious and deter from standard gameplay? Too much power in the hands of one player?

What's the dealio with that?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Jester is inherintly a bad role.
Lyncher can work but it's hard to balance and depends on someone else's play more than yours.
Contract Hitman works in open setups but was basically banished after Star Wars maf.
Governor is not in the game because being able to stop your own lynch is kinda pretty darn good, not to mention, more often than not it is useless. You want information even when the lynch is not what you desire, and if it is not, then you're allowing that player to hurt town pretty hard with a simple role :v

Rouge is a color.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The rogue (which is what I assume you mean) is a role invented by rockin and quite possibly the worst role ever invented for mafia

 

[BarDulL]

"I confirm the absence of roles such as: Jester, Lyncher, Contract Hitman, Rouge, Governor." - Taken from Paper Mario Mafia rules.

Rouge is a color, but apparently it's also a role, one I'm completely unfamiliar with.

I can see Jester being an obvious ban, as well as Gov considering the power to override a lynch AND lynch someone on your own accord is pretty damn strong for a single slot, but I was wondering if there was something else to it (mentality, stigma, Dgames values vs. values of other Mafia playing sites).

@Adumb, what does "Rogue" do? Lol.

 

[BarDulL]

Oh yeah, also unfamiliar with Contract Hitman.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's somebody the mafia is told they're mafia with that's actually a serial killer, every time it kills scum, it leaves public clues to who it is.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh yeah, also unfamiliar with Contract Hitman.

Gee Xonar gave me a game name, let me instead ask him about it instead of searching for it in the archives!

“Put Captain Solo in the cargo hold.”

Flavor: You are Boba Fett, most renowned and infamous bounty hunter in the galaxy. Throughout your decorated career as a marksman and hunter, you have gained many allies and made many enemies. You are enigmatic, but two things are certain – first, your willingness to protect only yourself; second, your hatred of Han Solo.

Mechanics: You are an independent contract hitman. You are privy to knowledge that facilitates your role and opportunities to shape the game to your liking. Each night, you will receive the names of one or two players. These are the night-kill choices by both mafias – the Imperial mafia and the Hutt mafia. You will then choose which night-kill to carry out, letting one target live while personally eliminating the other. These factions do not know of your existence and are not given any of this knowledge. You are bulletproof. If the player who is Han Solo is chosen as one of the choices, you will immediately choose that kill over the other.

Safe-claim: C-3P0 is not in this game and you are the only player with this knowledge.

Win Condition: You are independently aligned and if you are alive when the rebels lose. This means that you can win with either mafia faction, as long as you are alive when they force end-game and win. If you are the last non-rebel remaining, you may win if you are the last or second-to-last man standing.

-

Mechanic note: if KevinM ever died in this game then both mafias would not have a night kill.

 

[BarDulL]

LOL! What the **** @Rogue.

@Xonar - <3

 

[BarDulL]

I can definitely see a problem with Contract Hitman in a closed set up, agreed that it's best used in Open games.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

The problem is then "what happens when the Hitman dies?"

I think the best way to counter that is X1's method of having everyone be CH backups, as there is always a contract Hitman.

 

[BarDulL]

Oh yeah, that works too. Or maybe just give both Mafias their NKs when CH dies, granted that kinda defeats the point of the set up (unless the point of the set up isn't CH.)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You could switch over to incapping.

 

[Swiss]

Oh God don't bring incapping back.

 

[adumbrodeus]

incapping?

 

[Orboknown]

Look at RR's F&L mafia.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Oh, red ryu, that explains it

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Fire and Ice set-ups yeah.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

lolincapping

Double mafia games just tend to be broken in general. It's nigh impossible to balance two factional NKs from groups (not just a group and a solo individual). That and scumhunting gets harder because scum legitimately are hunting for other scum. It's kinda similar to how indy play is so strong here. Most games with indies tend to have them win or at the very least hang around until lategame.

 

[Swiss]

lolincapping

Double mafia games just tend to be broken in general. It's nigh impossible to balance two factional NKs from groups (not just a group and a solo individual). That and scumhunting gets harder because scum legitimately are hunting for other scum. It's kinda similar to how indy play is so strong here. Most games with indies tend to have them win or at the very least hang around until lategame.

10/10 would read again

 

[Overswarm]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=299831

I think this was fairly balanced.

Roles here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12761128&postcount=2704


There were some definite changes that I'd make now, but having a mafia with a 50% chance to kill and it being only on one of them was the side that won. The other side had a dual player Night Kill where one person sent the otehr mafia member to do it, meaning any roleblock on either player would prevent the kill. All in all a lot of trouble for mafia, and made it a bit harder for them to work it out.

In principle though, I agree. Multi-faction mafia games require several changes.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

lolincapping

Double mafia games just tend to be broken in general. It's nigh impossible to balance two factional NKs from groups (not just a group and a solo individual). That and scumhunting gets harder because scum legitimately are hunting for other scum. It's kinda similar to how indy play is so strong here. Most games with indies tend to have them win or at the very least hang around until lategame.

Guess it would depend if I was making a balanced game for strict results, or a stingier one for people to have fun with.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

I would be fine with a fire and ice game WITHOUT incapping...

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

The issue with two unregulated night kills is that it's ridiculously scumsided. Town has a wincon, town gives it its best, but in almost every double maf game I've witnessed, hosted, or played in, it's pretty much dictated by which mafia can outplay the other. If they don't spend their entire time shooting holes in town, they're having a shootout with the other mafia and then tend to faceroll once one is standing as the clear victor. I think the only one that came out with a town victory was the one I hosted, and that was mostly because the vig I put in got two scum in three shots.

It's for this reason that I tend to opt for alternative indies over the standard SK in my games. Multiple factional NKs are stupid and, if done wrong, can break a game.

But I enjoyed Superheroes, or what I read of it. It's definitely pretty balanced, but mostly because the mafia factions had a number of nerfs thrown at them in the first place.

 

[Rockin]

"I confirm the absence of roles such as: Jester, Lyncher, Contract Hitman, Rouge, Governor." - Taken from Paper Mario Mafia rules.

Rouge is a color, but apparently it's also a role, one I'm completely unfamiliar with.

I can see Jester being an obvious ban, as well as Gov considering the power to override a lynch AND lynch someone on your own accord is pretty damn strong for a single slot, but I was wondering if there was something else to it (mentality, stigma, Dgames values vs. values of other Mafia playing sites).

@Adumb, what does "Rogue" do? Lol.

Rogue is within the mafia group and is disguised as a mafia member to others. If they were to kill the mafia members, there would be a hint said within the day who killed them. The more kills, the bigger the hint.

 

[vanderzant]

But I enjoyed Superheroes, or what I read of it. It's definitely pretty balanced, but mostly because the mafia factions had a number of nerfs thrown at them in the first place.

x1 getting modkilled in his first post

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh gog I remember reading the QT when that happened and went "oh wow"