Garde's Link Guide

[Eramor]

how do you beat fox??? he can link huge combos before you can even neutral a, and its nearly impossible to get a hit off on him... I'm quite frustrated...I could always beat my friend who started playing fox for the **** of it, then he comes over and bam! now he kicks @$$. Where the heck did that come from? anyways...I need some suggestions for...

-avoiding the shine-edge guard attack
-interrupting infernal combos
-avoiding up air
-winning

 

[Gobolt]

Shine-edge guarding can be avoided with Links bombs, if you have one ready, his boomerang is usually too slow for that. Arrows could be fast enough occasionally, but it goes downward from the moment you release it (unless you charged it, but that won't happen in the air). If you we're close enough to the wall of the level, you could airdodge to grapple as well.

Uair isn't easy to avoid especially out of those infernal combos, if you had a bomb in hand, it'd be a a bit easier, possibly. Out of Links aerial moves, dair works, and nair just might work, if your friend doesn't time his uair well enough. If you are close to the ground, you can airdodge to grapple, but it is risky at low %, and make sure that your acceleration from the airdodge is still there so that you'll hit the ground sooner.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Geez, that Infernal Combo was the combo that owned me good. With Falco. With Falco's shine you cant take your bomb out in time unless you already have it out. I'd just neutral A/Up+A or bomb drop to interrupt Falcos combo. THanks for the tips, they helped.

 

[Eramor]

I heard that you can DI out of Falco's combo, but fox's is a different matter...

When I fight my friend with fox, its more like me slipping in a neutral a or a D smash whenever I can while he racks up damage on me like Mario on a goomba. I won once, and lost several times by one or two lives on 5-stock matches. The spin-attack spike and neutral A are my best friends against Fox, but they're not enough.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Im talking about the combo when Falco does this...
Reflectors Link upwards, Falco jumps and Reflectors Link again, Falco uses Up+B on Link to send him Skyward. I got out of the way most of the times he used Up+B by DIing out of the way. But Falco's Up+B could be used in any direction even if I DI out of the way. And As soon as I touch ground again, Falco already there starting or setting up that combo again cause of his godly fast fall. Its easy to edgeguard those space animals but when it comes to attacking them, Link has only a few options compared to their numerous options against Link.

 

[X Japan]

A in the air is ur best friend when it comes to fighting the StarFox Team

 

[Eramor]

update on the fox situation

I've developed a stragegy to hold my own against fox, somewhat successful in practice, still has kinks.

#1 - don't jump high...only bad things can come of this
#2 - shield grab as much as possible
#3 - spin attack spike whenever you can.
#4 - when recovering, try to keep your distance from the edge, then hookshot back. Or switch up when you begin your recovery up-B, otherwise you can get killed even at 0% by the shine.
#5 - short jump A, Back A, and up A seem to be effective.
#6 - double smash A is often a viable combo
#7 - the neutral air A can interrupt Fox's Forward B.
#8 - careful of getting your projectiles reflected...shoot them in at an angle that won't hit you if reflected, and sometimes you can hit him while he's reflecting your bomb, etc.
#9 - shoot him with arrow/boomerang while he's off the edge
#10 - Dsmash is your fastest ground move, and it can go under weak shields.
#11 - try to avoid air combos : fox can start an strong air combo with up tilt, up smash, running A, and others. And don't get hit by his up air attack...kills you at about 90% if you're in the air already.
#12 - Spin attack when he rolls so that he will get hit when he gets back on his feet.

Comments?

 

[Garde]

I have some input on your tactics, Eramor.

First off, overusing the up+B against either Fox or Falco is a bad idea, only use it if you KNOW you can hit them.

Secondly, don't shield grab every chance possible, you will be left open many times and will be punished very badly.

If they reflect a bomb, catch it and throw it again (if you can).

Use their reflectors against them as you said by shooting projectiles at them.

Bounce your boomer off the ground so when it reflects it will go under the ground and will not hit you on return. Also, note that once a boomer is reflected, you instantly get a new one since the old boomer is no longer yours. Another thing... If you throw your boomer in straight at a Fox, it reflects upwards, so don't jump.

Avoid being comboed in the air, but combo them in the air as much as possible. Link's up-air cannot be beat by either of their d-airs, and their horizontal manueverability in the air doesn't allow them to escape juggling with the up-air easily. Also, if either Fox or Falco try to jump in with a d-air (not a SH), SH to up-air. Using the up-air against Fox and Falco is very effective and can screw people over. If they're SHing into you with a d-air, WD back to f-smash, d-smash, grab, or up+B (be careful with the grab though!).

SH or WD backwards off the edge to edge hog Fox and Falco when you hear the ding of their forward+B's.

When hanging on the ledge, drop and jump up to use an up-air, sex kick, or f-air (f-air ONLY if they're far away). If they're really close and they're going to use a move, roll, attack, or jump (not drop jump) instead.

D-throw to d-smash, up-throw to d-smash, up-throw to up-smash.

When Fox tries to dash attack you, you will either be able to get a spin attack (from your shield) off or a shield grab, depending on where he is. Beware of Fox jumping or grabbing instead! WDing backwards to neutral-A, f-smash, or d-smash can also be good options.

When above Fox, and he's jumping up towards you, FF when he gets very close and d-air or sex kick. You can possibly miss his attack and hit him instead.

FF when coming back if you can and still grab onto the edge. This can help you avoid being shined away from the stage by Fox or spiked by Falco. Air dodging onto the stage when possible or to grabbing onto the ledge are also good ideas.

DI out of Fox and Falco's up-throws by holding down left or right as soon as they grab you and tech out of their d-throws.

Using Link's b-air is a big mistake. Fox and Falco's dash attacks, up-smashes and f-smashes go right through it. Only use b-air in the middle of a combo when they can't escape.

That's all I can think of right now, I need to get to bed. Later.

 

[SS4Ricky]

More on reflector business:

If you see Fox/Falco reflect one of your projectiles, it's technically a free hit. Every projectile reflected leaves them in "stun time" where they can't do anything, not even jump out of reflector. Usually if someone reflects my boomerang, i just run up to them and double foward smash. If someone reflects my bombs, i usually blow up. =/ I dunno, it'd probably be a smarter idea to catch it, i play a little reckless though and hope it'll go over me. It all depends on how high you toss the bomb on the reflector. Anyways you have alot of time to counterattack while their in the reflector. Set 'em up with a downtilt to dash, up+B, whatever you wanna do.

 

[Nic64]

Another thing against Fox is that you may want to come in lower than usual and hookshot the stage even if you could've made it with Spin Attack, it makes you much harder to shine spike if he has to go further out of his way.

 

[animedre]

It's actually nice to see some link users around. Me and link have been through alot of ****. people are always talking about how cheap he is wit the spin attack, or how slow he is. I used to lose alot with him, but after a good 4 years of Link in melee, it's safe to say that Link is my fav and can pwn any character (if used properly)

All his special moves are useful (not to mention the spin attack, which IMO is the best special attack in the game, NOONE CAN ESCAPE THE TIP!) , he has a high combo factor, and you can play some serious mind games. Link is also the most significantly improved character from the original, he actually feels alot different from most.

Its really a shame that some people understand that link is actually a good character.

P.S.
Good Job on ur faq Garde!

 

[CaliburChamp]

I have a feeling that Link can counter every character in the game. Even though Link has trouble against the space animals and others, I believe there is always one way to overcome their strategy. Countering moves with other characters moves. I think he excels in that aspect cause of his range and priority, I think that is the main reason Link has so many counter moves on the characters. Whats your opinion?

 

[Nic64]

I think Link can effectively deal with almost all the characters...except Sheik, no amount of experience, knowledge, or skill will put you on even footing with a good Sheik...ever. She's not just good in general, a lot of her advantages work particularly well on Link like her chain grab. This is not to say you can't win, you'll just be at a disadvantage no matter what. Sheik is the one character whom even if you're completely dedicated to playing Link, it would pay to get good with another character.

 

[Kubuu]

In reponse to the above, I don't think it's true. I use only Link, and I can handle my share of Sheik users. There's no point in me putting my all into Link, if I'm going to switch characters when I fight a Sheik. If you go into the fight with the mindset that you're at a natural disadvantage, that affects your gameplay.

 

[Nic64]

I said a good Sheik puts you at a disadvantage, not that you didn't have a chance or that it wasn't worth trying...I just said that it would be worth at least considering having another character to play as often.

But since we're on the topic, lets talk about some anti-Sheik strats. You really don't want to be grabbed or be that close in general. Projectile whoring like a mother****** while short hopping around can help, when she gets a bit closer try neutral A's or SHFFL'd sex kicks to build some more damage and try to smash her out afterward.

 

[X Japan]

what u just said mainly sums up some anti-Shiek strats dude.

 

[Red Dragon]

If you're going to play as Link you might as well play as another character, Sheik's pwn the poor green guy.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Red. Watch my Link OWN that Sheik of yours, lol. Link has only a few counter moves against Sheik that work, but the majority put Link in trouble cause of his lag. Link constantly needs to be on his toes in this battle. Too bad Sheik is such a great counter character for Link though.

 

[Nic64]

what u just said mainly sums up some anti-Shiek strats dude.

That was kind of the point "But since we're on the topic, lets talk about some anti-Sheik strats."...

 

[The GERM]

Let's keep it simple, if it wasn't for that chain grab, Sheik would be nothing, against Link anyway. Link, or I rather, don't seem to have any other problem with Sheik besides that. You don't want to just sit in a corner throwing **** either because people seem to forget that Sheik has projectiles too, those d@mn needles. You just have to play your smarter spacing game more effectively against Sheik, you dont' want to be so close where she's in grabbing range, and you don't want to be so far away where she can needle spam. I know that the down grab to up+b work the best on Link himself, and on Sheik at reasonably low and mid-high percentages even when DIing, but that doesn't mean you should just throw grabs out there, but you should really time them or grab if she's vulnerable to get that particular combo in.

 

[PXTalon2000]

Y'know, this guide apparently does not have a section devoted to edgeguarding. Though this is applicable to Shiek's match, it's applicable to other matches as well.

I'd rather not use the spin attack because most people sweet spot. But here's some stuff.
A returning boomerang yields a guaranteed spin attack or spin attack spike.
Edgehogging to dair can get you a kill. Edgehogging to uair can get you a combo and a juggle. To another uair, to an utilt, to a dair, even to a spin attack. Edgehogging can also lead to free boomer-bomb combos.
Bombdropping can make for fun edgeguarding.
I can probably think of some more, but I'd like to hear about Link's edgeguarding options. One of the most important part of any character's game is his edgeguarding options; don't think Link's any different.

Ok, this is a fine guide and all, but I've been gathering that it's becoming a bit obsolete. It would be nice if somebody compiled the knowledge in this thread and other Link threads into a more detailed, up-to-date guide. It's too hard for anybody coming in to look through the whole thread. Needs some character-specific match details, and more item-based and in-team strategies. For instance, Link can't air-dodge catch, which is a large part of item-play, but you can find ways around that weakness. If nobody else wants to start writing a new one, I could, but I don't feel like I have the right. Meh.

 

[Nic64]

If nobody else wants to start writing a new one, I could, but I don't feel like I have the right. Meh.

You don't have to be really good to write a guide, just make sure the information is correct and up to date etc. Since garde's not as active now it'd be nice to see a compilation of all the stuff to date.

 

[SS4Ricky]

For instance, Link can't air-dodge catch, which is a large part of item-play, but you can find ways around that weakness.

Actually, Link, Samus, and Y. Link can. It's just really tough. My friend's item catching master, and it took him a couple of tries to get Link's down. Although possible, it's probably not worth it in the long run...

And about the guide thing, go ahead. I don't think many of us have the time and patience to go though this whole topic, getting the juicest of information out of it.

 

[X Japan]

Originally posted by PXTalon2000

Ok, this is a fine guide and all, but I've been gathering that it's becoming a bit obsolete. It would be nice if somebody compiled the knowledge in this thread and other Link threads into a more detailed, up-to-date guide.

this guide isn't really becoming obsolete. with all the Link experts who post in this thread about most of the issues like Link with items,which team partner is good with Link, how to edgegarde certain characters,and other stuff this guide doesn't really to be updated.in my opinon this is one the most detail character guide out there and if Garde or someone esle to update this guide with all 28pgs worth of Link know how.it well take to much time and effort to do it.plus with ppl different playing styles with Link, for a person a guide like that its too MUCH!!!!!!!! the person will be confuse as so who's bi.

characters like Link,Y.Link,Samus, and Peach a guide for them is a real ballbuster. some of u should be glad Garde put as much time and effort for Link.how i see it Garde's guide is a foundation to use Link.the rest(in my opinon) should be learn on your own.pl can give tips on stuff, but to be really good with ur character u should learn on ur own.its just my 2 cents anyway.

 

[PXTalon2000]

Originally posted by SS4Ricky
Actually, Link, Samus, and Y. Link can. It's just really tough. My friend's item catching master, and it took him a couple of tries to get Link's down. Although possible, it's probably not worth it in the long run...

And about the guide thing, go ahead. I don't think many of us have the time and patience to go though this whole topic, getting the juicest of information out of it.

Mih, why'd I say that when I knew it wasn't true? My friend and I were just practicing Link's air-dodge catch; having the worst time with it because we could never get it during *actual matches*. Powershielding is easier.

I really need to take a break from these boards... But before I do so I'm going to write up a Link guide. It'll be a nice project for me.

Originally posted by X Japan
edgegarde

I like this word.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Another good edge guard tactic.
1. Sex kick them away.
2. Spin attack to the edge while they get caught in your aerial spin attack.
3. Link will grab the edge and the opponent will be sent flying by the aerial spin attack pushing him farther away from the stage. If he tries making it back he wont even edgehog cause Link has edgehogged already.

 

[Pimplicious]

Link is a great edgeguarder, primarily because he has so many options available. His options include:

Spin Slash (Up B)- The edge of this will send people flying so far away that recovery is no longer an option. Fairly useless against people who sweetspot the edge, but if they're coming from above, or if they're coming from beneath and they're going to miss the edge, whip it out.

Bow (Neutral B)- A charged arrow can hit people from far away, and an uncharged arrow can drop off and snag someone as they're trying to sweetspot the edge. It's a great way to screw with their timing, plus it gets rid of any projectiles hurled at you to distract you while their owner tries to get back.

Bomb (Down B)- The same as the bow, except better (IMO). Bombs have better knockback, which not only screws with their timing but places them farther away from the edge, which may put them out of sweetspot range. Marth, for example, sweetspots by dropping low then doing Dolphin Splash. Lob a bomb down over the edge and nail him a few times, and he'll either miss the edge or not make it at all. Some Up+B recoveries eat through it, though, but the goal is to hit them before they can do their recovery.

Spike (Down A)- While difficult to pull off, Link's down-tilt does spike. You'll have to play around with it to find the timing, as it has some startup lag, but this gives you yet another option.

Sex kick (Aerial neutral A)- Jump out and hit someone with this and they'll be knocked farther away. Then you can edgehog and do it again. This technique is similar to how Jigglypuff keeps Fox away, but you have to be careful that you don't get too far away from the edge.

Boomerang (Forward B)- Since the boomer is a weird projectile, you have to really work with the timing. A returning boomer, as previously mentioned, can bump someone away from sweetspotting or can set them up for an Up+B spike. And if worst comes to worst, it can serve to hit any person who does make it back on the edge and is a bit slow on the L/R buttons.

 

[SilvenswordsmanX]

Gugh, they were right...

DIE ALREADY!!!

 

[Eramor]

Item grabbing

Actually, I would venture to say that catching items thrown at you in the air with Link is not worth the effort. However, picking up items while jumping can be very useful. Example: a beam sword or whatever on a platform above you, you jump through and tap Z, and Link will grab the item with zero lag. You can also catch falling items rather easily this way. My personal favorite, though, is to grab an item item on the ground right before landing a jump. The opponent expects you to land the jump on the item, then you'd have to stop and pick it up, after the landing lag. But if you tap Z just right, you can eliminate that lag and get a little jump on the guy. In fact, you can grab it then tech roll away under the right conditions.

 

[Eramor]

sex kick edgegarde

the sex kick is one of the most kick-*** edgegardes in Link's arsenal. its got great range and priority, workable lag, and decent knockback. A great edgegarde that I don't believe has been mentioned is to short jump sex kick right on the edge. It has very little lag, and just as much priority as the jump-off-sex-kick. In fact, its very easy to switch between them, so you can sometimes throw your opponent off it they don't know which one you're going to do. What say y'all?

 

[X Japan]

and someone said there need to be a new Link guide!!

 

[LinksterJake]

Awesome guide, Garde, I use most of your tactics myself, and surprisingly have nothing to add. I have a question for ya though, or for anyone who might have an answer.... I struggle big time with falcos. Big time. I find that link is too slow and and his coming down aerial moves aren't good enough to get by that constant short hop lasering that all those falco users abuse. Also, you really can't get a sufficient projectile of your own off since the lasers stun. I found that I can sort of jump high and angle a boomerang at him, but other than that i'm out of ideas, and that doesn't seem to be good enough to stand on. If you could reply to this, I'd appreciate it, or even instant message JakeSop88, thad be even better. I agree with you that link is an underrated character though... and so is bowser.... my brother and I, he uses bowser and I use link, we took 7th at MLG Chicago, how bout that, heh. Problem was, in singles falco's destroyed me, hence this post......

 

[Eramor]

This is why someone needs to remake the guide

LinksterJake, if you will go back two or three pages, you will find a long debate about the falco/fox issue, and it will probably answer you questions. Otherwise, feel free to ask something more specific about it.

 

[X Japan]

man this guide is still good just some ppl need to learn some stuff through expericene. everything i known is throught expericene and some of kubuu's,Wes's and Mike G's wisdom. if anything he should have his brother learn how to play with Falco so he can practice some anti-falco stats. fighting a Falco should is easy with Link moves. its just that u need to know what moves to use and projectile as well. the key to winning is timing,smarts, and what move to use.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Just like to comment on Y. Link and Link back kicks. (b-air) In my opinion they are great to use when your opponent is shielding. Its also great to jump out of sheild and use b-air in certain situations to chain those attackers into some major combo's. Its always best to use b-air with the C-Stick for more control in the air. B-airs just seem to be underated, and you can get in some quick attacks with those kicks that get your opponent to lose his guard.

 

[X Japan]

Originally posted by CaliburChamp
Just like to comment on Y. Link and Link back kicks. (b-air) In my opinion they are great to use when your opponent is shielding. Its also great to jump out of sheild and use b-air in certain situations to chain those attackers into some major combo's. Its always best to use b-air with the C-Stick for more control in the air. B-airs just seem to be underated, and you can get in some quick attacks with those kicks that get your opponent to lose his guard.

but if u use them too much during the battle your opponent(if he/she see it and do something about it) will adapt and come up with a way to counter it or use ur own tactic agaisnt u. also i think a lot of Link pros use the double kick(i know me and kubuu does), but it depends on ur playing style so i can't speak for everyone.

 

[Eramor]

I think you misunderstood me, XJapan. This 'guide' is a great place to learn new stuff about Link, and to ask questions where Link masters will answer. However, very few will read through all 40 pages of it. I just think it would be cool to start over, incorporating all of the new things we've discussed into the original guide by Garde. It would be much more concise and easier for someone new to this thread to read through.

As for the back kick, use it, but use it well. Link's b-air is a great combo linker. I've done some cool stuff with it, like dtilt to uptilt to bair to dstab. But be careful - it has the lowest priority of Link's moves. Don't use it to interrupt anything. I find its best used to follow up another move before the opponent recovers, because most characters can counter it. Also, b-air can be a good fastfall move - if you're in the air and need to get on the ground, do a b-air then fastfall, and you can hit your opponent with the second kick (the one with knockback). This tactic can go under shields, too! :D

 

[mewtwo7]

Garde, I am seriously impressed. I myself do not play as Link, but my brother does. As such I was interested in reading a guide based on a playing style I've never seen before. After reading the entire guide through, I feel as if I could pick up the controller, play as link and know how to play. I also know that's not true, and that it takes work, but that was how your guide made me feel.

My brother just finished reading through it as well, and he would like to thank you for your time and effort of writing it (As would I!) The breakdown of the moves he said would help him to create his own combos and pool them together in a way he says I've never seen him play. Your combo section was superbly writen, and as such my brother is planning to try some. Again, he thanks you.

As a writer myself, I know how long it takes to write/edit everything your thinking, and you often leave things out. I could not find much of anything you left out (possibly through my inexperience with Link). Again, thank you for writing such an invigorating guide on Link, and I think it may have inspired me to try playing with Link (although I will retain Falco as my main.)

Thanks again, and good luck with future projects!

 

[Eramor]

here's a situation we all know and hate-
you've just nailed someone with a well placed up air, and they fly up to the top of the bubble, then they start falling. how frustrating! Against a tough opponent, it's hard to just juggle him with another up air. I've got something that just might work to solve this problem.

I've tried this a bunch of times, with varied results: double jump and use the aerial spin attack right beneath them. on Final Destination, this will put your head right under the top of the screen.

Risks:
of course, if you miss, you're vulnerable for the entire length of the fall, which can be deadly against fastfallers like falco.

Gains:
This can potentially catch them up high with a moderately powerful attack, which almost always will finish them off if it hits. I've actually had the most success with this tactic against falco.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Heh, yeah I used that move on Newbie2k4's Jigglypuff. It good, and people dont really expect an extra combo after Up+A.