Ganondorf's Top 8 Custom Movesets

[_Magus_]

2122 for some matchups, 2322 for others. I've found no use for any of the others.

 

[Xinc]

I personally think 2xyz is great, where x =/= 2 (very rare), y = anything, z =/= 3

 

[SleuthMechanism]

I've been liking 2222 a lot so far. Wizard's dropkick IMO makes ganon way more viable in general by giving his recover a much needed buff and improving his approach options, sword contributes more options than warlock punch though it's still a move you'll almost never use and it's sheild breaking properties are definitely interesting. i'm also loving flame wave and think its seriously underrated. it blasts the opponent up into a unfavorable position(despite multiple air dodges being a thing nobody likes being stuck descending for long periods of time in this game especially against ganon's strong aerials) and IT'S A COMMAND GRAB THAT CAN KILL. I repeat: a command grab that can kill. the fear that puts into shielding opponents is just too good. As for dark fists, it just adds another great ko move to ganon's plethora of them that acts as a fantastic out of shield option.

 

[Sonsa]

Insert Numbers here (Im not home right now Ill insert em later!)
The blade is just cool, but this is basically the original move with more range but you really wanna hit with the tip.
This Flame Choke is a kill move at higher percents, and at lower percents it can set up some nice follow ups or even combos.
This Up-B goes higher and still hits. The distance always mattered more than the hits to me at least.
This down-b! It's amazing! It looks flashy and cool, it's blue (for some reason) and it makes for an amazing recovery move. It hits just as hard too, the only draw back is a slightly longer start-up where he hops in the air, but I don't think that problem even exists in the aerial version. It's like...really his best custom.
Using this set, I came back to the stage pretty much every time - killed with my command throw - used my Down-B a lot for set and follow ups - It's amazing! I'm using this if I ever get to a custom tourney.

 

[FEFIZ]

My Ganon is 2121. But 3131 is good too.

 

[Xinc]

With EVO allowing customs, I think we should definitely compile up those top ten customs asap.

 

[Daeyrat]

It was already compiled, wasn't it? It is in Ampharos' topic.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We have the top six that you guys decided on before, and I still really think those six sets are great for all your Hylian conquest needs. To fill out to 10 for Ganon, I was thinking of 2222, 2221, 3122, and 3322. Does team Ganon feel that some other sets would be more important to include?

 

[SleuthMechanism]

^all those sets combined seem to cover most if not all of his viable options IMO.

 

[A2ZOMG]

We have the top six that you guys decided on before, and I still really think those six sets are great for all your Hylian conquest needs. To fill out to 10 for Ganon, I was thinking of 2222, 2221, 3122, and 3322. Does team Ganon feel that some other sets would be more important to include?

Flame Wave seems mostly practical in teams anyway, tbh I could live with those sets. I don't think you need 3322 however given Flame Chain is not as preferred in as many matchups and Warlock Thrust arguably covers somewhat similar options in the air. Some people in teams however might prefer default Warlock Punch with customs, so I would recommend a 1122 set, which some people might prefer in singles as well if they never use Neutral B for anything except U-tilt shieldbreaks.

 

[JmacAttack]

Flame Wave seems mostly practical in teams anyway, tbh I could live with those sets. I don't think you need 3322 however given Flame Chain is not as preferred in as many matchups and Warlock Thrust arguably covers somewhat similar options in the air. Some people in teams however might prefer default Warlock Punch with customs, so I would recommend a 1122 set, which some people might prefer in singles as well if they never use Neutral B for anything except U-tilt shieldbreaks.

I agree. I can think of one matchup where 1122 is preferred over 2122: Captain Falcon. While rare, if you read an aerial Falcon Kick, Warlock Punch is a kill, while Warlock Blade is just a trade. Naturally, Warlock Punch is also phenomenal for Shield Break punishes, as aerial reverse WP is a guaranteed kill at just below 20 percent. I sometimes find myself wishing there was an option to keep Warlock Punch without having to sacrifice Dark Fists and Wizard Dropkick, and 1122 is the answer.

We have the top six that you guys decided on before, and I still really think those six sets are great for all your Hylian conquest needs. To fill out to 10 for Ganon, I was thinking of 2222, 2221, 3122, and 3322. Does team Ganon feel that some other sets would be more important to include?

I absolutely despise Warlock Thrust and want nothing to do with it in any of our custom sets. It has so much endlag that it actually leaves you vulnerable for just as long as Warlock Blade, but without the armor, and a whole lot more standing around like an idiot. On miss or shield, people have time to run up, stop, and Fsmash. For a move that kills later than Jab. Pass. Warlock Thrust doesn't cover any options that aren't covered elsewhere, and anything it does cover is done poorly.

 

[FEFIZ]

Guys, Ganon Up B, 2 or 3?! I prefer the 2

 

[SleuthMechanism]

Both are much better than the default. Gotta go with 2 because of that kill power and utility as an out of shield option.(3 is a requirement if you're not using wizard's dropkick for some reason though IMO)

 

[Sonsa]

I think 2222 is the way to go! ...or maybe 2232?

Wizard's dropkick is amazing, slightly less startup but that startup actually can dodge some projectiles, and then a nice hit that pretty much the same as the default! This move can even help you recover a lot!

Warlock Blade, is pretty much the same as default with with more range and a tipper! Sounds pretty good to me!

Flame Wave, can be a bit harder to land, but that's because it's a kill move at high percents! Aerial works the same as default pretty much, you can still Ganoncide, I think either this or the default is best, while this can kill, the default does have more follow-up opportunities in the form of a guessing game I assume. But also down tilt at times can be a true combo and kill, I think!

Now the up-b Im having the most trouble with. Dark Vault sends you higher, but can leave you in a predictable position... Dark Fists is the standard recovery but instead of stopping your momentum with a grab, just has you going and anyone that gets caught could die. I dunno...what do you guys think the best recovery is?

 

[HeavyLobster]

Fists has armor and is dangerous to challenge directly. Vault I feel is worst for recovery because of how easy it is to interrupt, but it does let you go a bit deeper for edgeguarding. Dive actually has the best Oos utility because you can reverse it to catch crossups. With Fists you're usually better off trying to tank the attack with your armor as it's kind of slow and has limited range Oos.

 

[JmacAttack]

Fists has armor and is dangerous to challenge directly. Vault I feel is worst for recovery because of how easy it is to interrupt, but it does let you go a bit deeper for edgeguarding. Dive actually has the best Oos utility because you can reverse it to catch crossups. With Fists you're usually better off trying to tank the attack with your armor as it's kind of slow and has limited range Oos.

This is true. I prefer Dark Fists even just for recovering, as the slight delay at the start still lets you move sideways, so it can give you an inch or two more to recover.

Should be noted that if you get someone with Vault at the very start, it's much harder to tech the stage spike.

 

[adom4]

This is true. I prefer Dark Fists even just for recovering, as the slight delay at the start still lets you move sideways, so it can give you an inch or two more to recover.

Should be noted that if you get someone with Vault at the very start, it's much harder to tech the stage spike.

I don't see any reason to use the other up-B's, dark fists is better in every way than both of them (I also think it's his best custom move)

 

[DunnoBro]

I just wish dark fist had actual set-ups that didn't demand a read/hard character and move-specific punish. Though, that is ganondorf.

I do like the recovery of it though, ganondorf has very poor aerial mobility, and struggles mostly from horizontal, not so much vertical recovery. Fists actually is slightly better horizontally than vault, not sure about dive.

Also, I think dark thrust has so little utility overall that it'd be worth excluding entirely for the sake of a more complete set to satisfy dubs. (Which does use both default and blade effectively)

Thoughts on wizards assault for dubs? Hitting inward for a teammate seems pretty neat.

 

[adom4]

I just wish dark fist had actual set-ups that didn't demand a read/hard character and move-specific punish. Though, that is ganondorf.

I do like the recovery of it though, ganondorf has very poor aerial mobility, and struggles mostly from horizontal, not so much vertical recovery. Fists actually is slightly better horizontally than vault, not sure about dive.

Also, I think dark thrust has so little utility overall that it'd be worth excluding entirely for the sake of a more complete set to satisfy dubs. (Which does use both default and blade effectively)

Thoughts on wizards assault for dubs? Hitting inward for a teammate seems pretty neat.

Use dark fists OOS, it has super armor before the jump so he can tank some attacks & pop them up for the second hit.

 

[DunnoBro]

Use dark fists OOS, it has super armor before the jump so he can tank some attacks & pop them up for the second hit.

I know, hence the "hard character and move-specific punish" part

 

[HeavyLobster]

Thoughts on wizards assault for dubs? Hitting inward for a teammate seems pretty neat.

Mostly prefer either Wizkick's power or Dropkick for stock tanking. I guess it's not useless for doubles but both of Ganon's other options are really useful in that environment. Haven't really experimented with it enough to say for sure.

 

[FEFIZ]

Mostly prefer either Wizkick's power or Dropkick for stock tanking. I guess it's not useless for doubles but both of Ganon's other options are really useful in that environment. Haven't really experimented with it enough to say for sure.

Well, I prefer the defaut. I'm using 2121.

 

[Raijinken]

I tend to use 2322 mostly, and have had some fun with 2222 lately, but I think 3322 and 3122 would be great submissions to the list.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Thoughts on wizards assault for dubs? Hitting inward for a teammate seems pretty neat.

Def not completely out of the question, and I could see it working either with good coordination and/or certain teammates. Default Wizkick is actually a lot less useful in teams (and FFA) where the slowdown on hit makes it a lot more punishable, so I believe WDK is the go-to option in this mode for safety and survivability.

 

[WwwWario]

I seem to be the only person who likes, and uses, the Wizard's Assault. Sure, it has longer start-up, and goes straight down in the air, but that long range and speed makes up for it (at least I feel that way). When people are trying to roll away from me when we're close, having the Assault helps a lot, as I can quickly and easily catch up with them. I don't know, I just really like it. It also seem to surprise my brothers and friends online as it has slightly longer start up but faster speed and longer range, something they don't expect. It also sends the opponents backwards which I feel is good, simply because you then have more time to recover without getting punished (since, y'know, you're sending them away behind you while you're still launching forward). It's also worth mentioning that it doesn't slow down when hitting, so it's more difficult to punish if someone shields it.

As for the other specials, I have mixed feelings.

Dark Vault is one I like, simply because of it's increased height and it's fast animation when it hits. Reminds me of Ganon's Melee and PM recovery :') Though I most of the time find myself using either the standard one, since it can grab and punch, or the Dark Fists because of it's power.

I also feel Flame Wave is really underrated. Sure, it has a lot shorter range and more ending lag, but hitting will deal a MASSIVE blow. The knockback is surprisingly good. If you're a good reader, I think this one is really good.

As for the punches, I mix 'em all up. The standard one because of it's damage and armor, the Blade because of it's range (and epicness), and the Thrust because of, well, the speed, and it is surprisingly satisfying to hit with

 

[DunnoBro]

I don't think flame wave is so much of a read but a frame trap/punish. Mostly for landings, mix-ups, or semi-dedicated motions.

I like it, especially against shield-sitters like diddy or mac. Though chain is helpful against campers for movement options.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I've been using 1122, though 2122 could be just as good. Warlock Punch gets me in some good places due to super armor, and is fantastic in certain situations, like a shield break or missed rest or hard read. Flame Choke is such a good took for Ganon that I can't bring myself to change it. Dark Fists is slow but goes far and is really powerful if it hits. Finally, WDK is the move that makes ganon usable for me, giving him a decent recovery and okay approach tool. Ganon is simply incomplete without Dropkick

 

[SleuthMechanism]

^totally agreed. honestly without wizard's dropkick ganon feels clunky and incomplete to me. really seems like that one missing piece that brings his moveset together IMO.

 

[DunnoBro]

No my friends, without Dropkick, sm4sh is incomplete.

(this would actually be a 0-death if I knew how to footstool outside of training mode)

 

[PhantomTriforce]

I've been using Ganon lately because of his customs, and my favorite sets are 2132 and 2232. However I don't think changing Vault to Fists is bad for me because Ganon's recovery only required Dropkick. But the fact that Wave can kill so early is very appealing to me.

 

[DunnoBro]

I like chain in matchups where I will have to actually chase people down, but wave is much better for footsies, when your grab is as bad as ganons, a killing command grab is a deathgod-send.. I honestly don't like default choke so much since that and dropkick have a lot of overlap in the time of their uses, and dropkick is a lot more consistent/safer.

Dropkick makes mid-range and trying to zone out ganon unsafe. And wave makes playing the footsies game with him MAD scary. Also, rage makes wave kill absurdly early and we all know ganon gets in that rage...

The only issue is characters who are consistently good at long-range like samus, lucario, etc. But I mean that's ganon. Flame chain is kind of helpful for chasing them down, since they refuse to play the footsies game a lot... But it's still ganon.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dropkick really isn't that great in midrange when a lot of characters can just duck under it if you're too close making it really only good at long range in neutral most of the time. It's also slower startup than default and worse at dealing with juggles. The only matchups I would recommend Drop Kick against are like Rosalina, Sonic, Sheik, and against most of the other fat heavy characters. Everyone else, default is better for actually forcing people to play respectfully in midrange and also does a better job of getting you out of juggles (you should not be having trouble recovering as Ganon in most matchups other than the ones I mentioned if you run Dark Fists).

Flame Chain has a lot of overlap with Wizkick and DA and is slower than both and only marginally better for catching dodges in some situations and still horribly unsafe on block. Choke actually has to be respected both in close and mid range making it dangerous to shield, spotdodge, or roll recklessly against Ganon, and getting a few techchase reads from Flame Choke usually makes it more rewarding than the other options.

The only customs Ganon really should take consistently are Warlock Blade and Dark Fists (actually his best custom move). Everything else is conditional, and usually not as good as the default.

 

[PhantomTriforce]

@ A2ZOMG
You shouldn't overlook the fact that without dropkick, Ganon has one of the worst recoveries in the game. I think he needs it. Also, it gives him a combo out of down throw.

 

[Daeyrat]

Dropkick is good against projectiles too.

 

[A2ZOMG]

@ A2ZOMG
You shouldn't overlook the fact that without dropkick, Ganon has one of the worst recoveries in the game. I think he needs it. Also, it gives him a combo out of down throw.

Ganon's recovery is bad, but it's not close to being the worst in the game. He gets good vertical distance on his Up-B which combined with saving your other resources correctly allows you to avoid a lot of edgeguard attempts and survive as long as you know how to tech stage spikes. He's also a heavy character, meaning in most situations you rarely get sent far enough that you can't make it back as long as you DI correctly. As long as you run Dark Fists, you should almost never be getting gimped except in a very small number of matchups, which indeed WDK helps you in. But that's only like 6 or so matchups at best. Without default furthermore, Ganondorf often lacks any real options to actually land on stage and threaten people who try to juggle him, which is a more serious problem.

Ganon already has combos out of D-throw that do more damage...Drop Kick doesn't even combo except at specific ranges depending on DI.

 

[PhantomTriforce]

Ganon already has combos out of D-throw that do more damage...Drop Kick doesn't even combo except at specific ranges depending on DI.

I don't think Ganon has any reliable aerials that he can do out of down throw...you migh be able to get nair or up-air at very low percents but after that dropkick is your best bet.

 

[DunnoBro]

Of the dthrow combos though, Ganon can do dropkick... Which further combos. =p

Also, dropkick is fine at mid-range. As long as they're not like right in front of you, or absurdly short like pika/olimar while a little too close (dhd has a wide enough hurtbox that his short height isn't a big deal) then it's pretty consistent. Characters like fox/jr/mario height are fine.

Also ganons recovery is definitely among the worst in the game, at least default. Him, mac, ike, and jr are the only ones I can really gimp straight up in this game consistently with almost any character. Ganon has always had a bad recovery, though that has more to do with his pitiful air speed/jump than his upb/sideb.

Also default wizard kick is just bad in the neutral. It's punishable as hell, accomplishes very little. The only upside is people have to respect it a bit while landing, but even then it's risky as hell.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't think Ganon has any reliable aerials that he can do out of down throw...you migh be able to get nair or dair at very low percents but after that dropkick is your best bet.

D-throw DA at 0
D-throw U-air/N-air at most percents
D-throw F-air by the ledge at KO percents if they DI towards you

Of the dthrow combos though, Ganon can do dropkick... Which further combos. =p

Also, dropkick is fine at mid-range. As long as they're not like right in front of you, or absurdly short like pika/olimar while a little too close (dhd has a wide enough hurtbox that his short height isn't a big deal) then it's pretty consistent.

Also ganons recovery is definitely among the worst in the game. Ganon has always had a bad recovery.

Also default wizard kick is just bad in the neutral. It's punishable as hell, accomplishes very little. The only upside is people have to respect it a bit while landing, but even then it's risky as hell.

Drop Kick only combos with an extremely positioning dependent ledge cancel. It also does like 7 damage. 9 if you manage to actually hit it in close range. The reward on Drop Kick is generally speaking terrible outside of decent position advantage, and it's only safe on block at very specific spacings.

Drop Kick is really only consistent against either really tall characters or in long range, and you have to keep in mind it's about 20 frames startup with a very telegraphed animation. Any good player WILL block this on reaction in neutral.

Default Wizkick is 16 frames, but the animation is not quite as obvious meaning it actually can sometimes catch people before they block on reaction, in addition to actually covering midrange faster, more reliably, and for better reward at 10-12 damage. Furthermore, other good Ganon mains like Ray_Kalm and Vermanubis have clearly stated that default is overall more useful in case you were wondering about high level opinions.

Ganon's recovery is really not significantly worse than any of the other non-top tier recoveries, and it's better than explicitly awful recoveries like Olimar, Duck Hunt, and obviously Little Mac. You shouldn't be getting gimped often as Ganondorf especially if you run Dark Fists, while what you sacrifice onstage by running Drop Kick is usually not worth it outside of 6 or so matchups. This iteration of Ganon's recovery is actually by far the best he has been given when airdodge and ledge mechanics combined with his good vertical distance and weight make him actually hard for most of the cast to gimp, especially when he also has dangerous aerials that can protect him very well from edgeguard attempts.

 

[DunnoBro]

Actually, you pretty much just need to hit with the descending part of dropkick to combo. That way ganon gets out of the animation soon enough after they're put into hitstun to combo off it.

Usually I get dtilt if onstage and they miss a tech, or nai/uair if it sent us offstage.

Also despite the hitbox coming out later, it travels quicker and ends sooner (Making it much less safe on shield, and definitely not hit like default is)

16 or 20 frames means neither are hitting people by surprise so much as they are punishing. Dropkick punishes harder and more consistently.

I also care nothing for the stated, unexplained, unexpressed opinions of other players.

Even duck hunt can protect himself with the can while recovering and can even go under most stages. Olimar similarly with pikmin and actually attacking. The distance they travel and projectiles offer far more protection.

And little mac is designed to have the worst recovery in the game, so I'd hope ganons is at least better than his for your argument to even begin to hold water.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Actually, you pretty much just need to hit with the descending part of dropkick to combo. That way ganon gets out of the animation soon enough after they're put into hitstun to combo off it.

Usually I get dtilt if onstage and they miss a tech, or nai/uair if it sent us offstage.

And to say ganon's recovery is not significantly worse than diddy, sheik, zss, luigi, etc who have better air speed, jumps, and effectively have three jumps is absurd and I'm not going to even begin to entertain the concept.

And the combo situation you cited will almost certainly not happen out of D-throw against someone who knows the matchup, and you're usually gambling that you catch them at long range with the move in order to get a combo. Good against Rosalina and Sheik maybe, but most other matchups it probably shouldn't happen very often.

All of those recoveries are basically from top tier characters who have a CRAPTON of air mobility options. You overestimate Luigi's recovery though (except in customs where he gets buffs). Ganon's recovery is fine in most matchups especially with Dark Fists, and if you're denying that, you don't know all your options.