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Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
I've got a lot of time and i'm really bored so this is how it's going to work. Any questions you may have any match ups your having trouble with please ask. If you don't understand how something works i'll make a vid explaining it as best i can although the only editing software i have is movie maker so i won't be able to freeze the frames or anything fancy but i will be able to take you through everything step for step.

Questions? Suggestions? Match up issues? Video Tutorials?

Please Ask.
 

Martelinj

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
97
Location
Norway
A vid which describe "how to use the dwarf"
i find it kinda hard to use the dwarf in matches. I know the theory, but not the "in action" thing :p

And some good ganon vs [inser random character]-matches would have been nice.
Its always fun to see how others play their ganon :D
 

Ulti

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
355
I've been finding the Captain Falcon matchup particularly frustratingly lately (especially since everyone seems to have picked him up as a secondary). While any advice is welcome, I'd also like to know how to get around the n-air, and what's a good way to DI the f-b.
Also what are some good combos? I know Ganon isn't a combo king or anything, I'm just looking for some basics.

Help on this would be GREATLY appreciated.
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
A vid which describe "how to use the dwarf"
i find it kinda hard to use the dwarf in matches. I know the theory, but not the "in action" thing :p

And some good ganon vs [inser random character]-matches would have been nice.
Its always fun to see how others play their ganon :D

I'll make a video of the advanced ganon techs... like.. wave landing to up airs ledge hop wave land onto the stage ect.ect.ect. whenever i get a chance for you. Ganons main points are well spaced f airs, up air edge guards and a lot of patience. If i can't get around to making the vid in the near future feel free to keep badgering with questions.

I've been finding the Captain Falcon matchup particularly frustratingly lately (especially since everyone seems to have picked him up as a secondary). While any advice is welcome, I'd also like to know how to get around the n-air, and what's a good way to DI the f-b.
Also what are some good combos? I know Ganon isn't a combo king or anything, I'm just looking for some basics.

Help on this would be GREATLY appreciated.
Captain Falcon is a pain in the *** for Ganon as far as Falcon goes.. try to *** him as much as you can with up air edge guards. getting around the n-air is really hard the best you can do is smash DI away and hope it's spaced enough you don't get chased/punished. DI Falcons forward b if you don't DI you go straight up at higher percents that's not always a bad thing because he won't be able to follow up at lower percents DI left or right and hope he doesn't chase .. i hate CF...

Here's 2 matches between The Cape and I a couple months old but should help you out a bit. Captain Falcon is really hard for Ganon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEHr5HYgm4g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ7H0mgSoh0


... p.s. RIP stands for Renth In Person not rest in peace ;)
 

Ulti

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
355
Thanks a lot!
I liked the f-b to grab in the first match. I'll have to remember that.
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
Thanks a lot!
I liked the f-b to grab in the first match. I'll have to remember that.
forward b to grab is tricky.. at 0% on fox and falco i down air ~> Forward B ~> Grab ~> down throw ~> down smash (d throw d smash doesn't always work depends how they tech) ~> follow up with an aerial.

I don't have the resources to make the vid the way i want to, to show all the fun advanced stuff you can do with ganon. right now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9-N_87bLqo

that vid will have to do for now use for ganons invulnerable ledge hop stalls, the vid started out as a joke because someone bet me i couldn't do it but i might as well use it here.
 

CluelessBTD

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
987
Location
Pasadena, Tx
Could you somehow get a matchup of you and a nice doc that spams pills? Oh, and bair edgegaurd? That's my most terrible matchup
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
Could you somehow get a matchup of you and a nice doc that spams pills? Oh, and bair edgegaurd? That's my most terrible matchup
Well, where i live there's a lack of people to play whenever i go to umbreonmows this weekend i'll have The Cape play the match with me a few times and get a vid for you if i can.
 

Pointman Rob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
269
Location
Kingston, Ontario
I wouldn't mind seeing a video showcasing some of Ganon's edge tricks and how to do them. Stuff like, for example, the infinite edge stall, ledgehopping uairs, ledgehop-to-wavedash (also things you could follow that up with) as well as different ways to edgeguard different characters.

It'd be nice to have a nice, complete how-to reference, so I don't have to go all over the place looking for vids when I can't get a technique right. Also, include some flashy things that won't normally work in games. I wanna see creativity too dammit. (full jump warlock punch off the edge ftw?)
 

Pointman Rob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
269
Location
Kingston, Ontario
Oh, and a vid vs. Ice Climbers? I think I've got that matchup figured out now, but it gave me problems early on and I wouldn't mind seeing how someone else handles it. Especially on neutral stages.
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
I wouldn't mind seeing a video showcasing some of Ganon's edge tricks and how to do them. Stuff like, for example, the infinite edge stall, ledgehopping uairs, ledgehop-to-wavedash (also things you could follow that up with) as well as different ways to edgeguard different characters.

It'd be nice to have a nice, complete how-to reference, so I don't have to go all over the place looking for vids when I can't get a technique right. Also, include some flashy things that won't normally work in games. I wanna see creativity too dammit. (full jump warlock punch off the edge ftw?)
I'm working on a video to show all of the techs but i need someone to help me with it and none of my friends are awake at 1:40a.m. give me a break here ;) and what's the point in including flashy thing like warlock punchs of the stage? the point of this thread is to help people not to look pretty and show off especially with techniques that don't work ..XD

Oh, and a vid vs. Ice Climbers? I think I've got that matchup figured out now, but it gave me problems early on and I wouldn't mind seeing how someone else handles it. Especially on neutral stages.
I can get you a vid where i played one of my friends climbers the other day i'll get it up as soon as i can it might not be till tomorrow night though. i win that match just by being madd aggressive : ) just don't get grabbed and you should be fine easier said than done i know.

how do i.... win... against falco....
Falco is a pain in the *** the lasers make things difficult and falco will combo you all day and night. The way i normally win this match and i don't know if i can find you a good video or not i'll have to see what i can do. i just abuse combos and oppurtunites like.. at 0% down air -> forward b -> grab -> down throw -> down smash (down smash doesn't always work depends on how they tech) follow up with an aerial. Normally when i'm being drill shined (not pillared) on FD they drill -> shine then try to drill again i try to up air to knock the stupid bird away. Just abuse combos the best you can and if that doesn't work.. well bend over and take it because Falco is probably ganons hardest match.
 

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
For all the peeps who need some help against falco, I posted this in another thread but I thought it would be more helpful here.
Falco-I find falco much easier than fox due to his relativly more linear playing style. Falco is extremely fun and simple once you get the hang of it.Basically this matchup is based on grabs on ganons part. Grabs are the ONLY way you can win this matchup.You may ask"how do I grab if the falco shines?", Well all you have to do is grab at a certain point after the sheild stun when the shine cannot hit you. Out of grabs techase with dairs, fairs and your dsmash.Techasing is fundamental. Most people dont know this, but you can chaingrab falco. Usually what I do is double grab falco and most of the time this confuses their teching and they tech in place, punish this with a dair immediatly.Also, you should learn how to powersheild. I can powersheild about 25% of lasers which REALLY annoys and throws of falco's game when I do it.Remember, you can kill falco with one hit, so don't waste your grabs because grab +tech follow=death on falco.Lasers are really no big deal, campy falco's are relativley much easier for ganon as opposed to an extremely agressive falco because of ganons size. Your going to want to jump over lasers and fair/uair falco rom above when they jump. Most laser happy falco's tend to concentrate so much on the camping aspect that they don't see your fist going straight torwards their face. Trust me, lol.When the falco tries to get to the other side of the stage to continue camping be sure to limit their moving space. uair if they try to go over and dair if they try to go under you.
Hope this helps, all the info. that I mentioned works because I play one of the best falco's in the south, Lambchops, alot.
Good luck with the matchup, theres nothing better than a ganon pushing falco's **** in :)
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
I don't know, i have far more trouble with falcos than do i with foxs. Falcos laser makes ganon wanna cry. I don't know.. i guess it's more a of a perferance thing. Beating Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Marth is very possible with ganon. I think it's a matter of experience.
 

Pointman Rob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
269
Location
Kingston, Ontario
I'm working on a video to show all of the techs but i need someone to help me with it and none of my friends are awake at 1:40a.m. give me a break here ;) and what's the point in including flashy thing like warlock punchs of the stage? the point of this thread is to help people not to look pretty and show off especially with techniques that don't work ..XD
lol, yeah, wasn't entirely serious with the last part of my post. Every now and then though, I feel like doing something ridiculous -- mainly vs bad kids who talk smack and need to be humiliated -- and I'm running out of ideas. I needs somethin FRESH. :p lol

As for the actual, helpful part, no rush. Take your time an make it nice.

btw, I can't listen to Dragonforce now without thinking about your combo vid the whole time. thanks.
 

tarheeljks

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,857
Location
land of the free
I don't know, i have far more trouble with falcos than do i with foxs. Falcos laser makes ganon wanna cry. I don't know.. i guess it's more a of a perferance thing. Beating Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Marth is very possible with ganon. I think it's a matter of experience.
i think marth is the easiest of the four by far.
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
i think marth is the easiest of the four by far.
even though i agree, i wouldn't say by far. Whenever i played Cactuar his Marth completely crushed my Ganon over and over i had to play Mario/Falco just to keep up with him. If play correctly Marth destroys Ganon really easily. Or maybe it's just Cactuar i dunno.
 

Tom

Bulletproof Doublevoter
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
15,019
Location
Nashville, TN
For cereal, are there any vids of a good Ganon beating a good Falco on the net, besides the set of JoeBushman111 vs. Rob$? That set really helped give me a good mindset for the matchup... but I'd love to see some more vids of that matchup.

I really hate that matchup. I play it everyday and still can't get around it.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
I've been finding the Captain Falcon matchup particularly frustratingly lately (especially since everyone seems to have picked him up as a secondary). While any advice is welcome, I'd also like to know how to get around the n-air
Jab. Crouch cancel and jab. If it doesn't hit him directly out of it from the start, you'll ASDI "CC" the 1st hit even if it hits you out of a jab and still be able to jab again before the 2nd hit of the n-air comes out. Then either grab, d-tilt, f/u-air, or whatever while he's in a disadvantaged position. If you're at high damage you probably don't want to do it as much in case they happen to throw out a knee as you'll be less likely to DI it well.

On the character select screen hold full left and then full right. If the cursor stays level or drifts slightly down in a direction you will be able to do easy CC jabs and jab cancels while facing the opposite direction (the jab cancel isn't too useful for Ganon, but the CC jab is beast with him). Hold diagonally down and away and press the A button. If your controller is calibrated the right way you should be able to hold the direction and repeatedly jab over and over while staying crouched inbetween, and eat and counterattack any reasonably weak hits even if you're in the middle of jabbing. If you turn around and f-tilt your controller isn't well suited for it in that direction. You would have to CC, then release down on the control as you press A to do a jab in that case. If you can get used to it, it's much better to do your CCing by holding down and towards, as it won't really affect your DI if you happen to take a strong hit while doing so. When you go to jab switch to down/away if it works w/ your controller or release the control to do the jab otherwise, then quickly switch back to down/towards to be able to CC and re-jab if the jab gets stuffed.

If you do it right, you can shut down most of his air game pretty well. It takes some getting used to though, and if your controller doesn't jab cancel very well it's considerably more complicated. It mainly just leaves them DD grabs, which I find are best dealt with while facing forward anyway using SH u-airs/double airs, waveland f-tilts, jabs, f-tilts, and occasional d-tilts.
careful w/waiting for the shine to come out and then grabbing b/c lots of falco's are starting to multishine.
His shine lacks serious range and when he doesn't have the help of a dash's momentum pushing him ontop of them like the 1st often does it doesn't reach nearly as well if they jump into more, especially if the person holds away in shield during the first shine to get pushed further away. In Ganon's case they will always whiff if they hold away and try for a grab. Against most chars it's a near useless technique if they do this.
 

Ulti

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
355
^ I think I've heard of doing something like you described before. So I just hold down+away and repeatedly tap A right? I'll have to practice that a bit, because last I tried it I ended up crouching the opposite direction. But I didn't practice as I didn't know it's usefulness. Thanks, I'll give this a try again.

Oh, do I hold down+away before tapping A, or can I can I tap A than down+away?
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
If your controller allows it, you can hold down/away the whole time and just press A, or preferably hold down/towards for safer DI on your CC, then whenever you want to jab roll to down/away real quick->press A->then roll back to down towards. It's pretty precise on the analog position to jab while holding down/away so you only want to do it this way if the diagonal notch on your controller happens to be the correct spot, that way you can do it easily & reliably. Luckily, my good controller happens to work perfectly facing both directions.

If holding the diagonal doesn't work with your controller to do a jab while crouching you should hold down/towards to CC, then when you want to jab you quickly release to neutral->press A->quickly switch back to down/towards right after pressing A.

With the 1st method you are always ASDIing downward even when executing the jab and is easier, while with the 2nd there's a brief moment when executing the jab where you aren't ASDIing down and if you take a weak hit it will still pop you up into the air and you won't be able to counter with another jab. If you can do it quick enough though, it won't make too much of a difference compared to the 1st.
 

CluelessBTD

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
987
Location
Pasadena, Tx
Captain Falcon is a pain in the *** for Ganon as far as Falcon goes.. try to *** him as much as you can with up air edge guards. getting around the n-air is really hard the best you can do is smash DI away and hope it's spaced enough you don't get chased/punished.
I haven't seen any Ganon do this other than myself, but I discouraged Cpt. Falcon from rushing me with Nair quite easily. I discovered that if timed correctly, if I stand still and then SHFFL a Nair with Ganon, it outranges Falcon's nair and sends him flying (at higher percentages). I did it twice in a row, then the Falcon gave up the tactic :D
 

chaddd

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
1,485
I haven't seen any Ganon do this other than myself, but I discouraged Cpt. Falcon from rushing me with Nair quite easily. I discovered that if timed correctly, if I stand still and then SHFFL a Nair with Ganon, it outranges Falcon's nair and sends him flying (at higher percentages). I did it twice in a row, then the Falcon gave up the tactic :D
You should check out my matches against GaWes. There's a very simple solution to Falcons, aside from the neutral air. The Forward-Up Tilt works wonders. Same with a well timed Up-Air. And if you're truly a jerk trying to humiliate your opponent, try to time hitting him out of the neutral air with an Up-B. :laugh:
 

technomancer

Smash Champion
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
2,053
What do you do if he just dashdances your junk and runs up and grabs you for teh hax autokombo?
 

Pointman Rob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
269
Location
Kingston, Ontario
I haven't had too much experience fighting real good young links, but Ive seen a vid or two with YL ruining ganon with projectile spam and hit-and-run tactics. Any general advice for this kind of matchup going in?
 

TheHiveMind

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
38
Location
Wayland, MA
Im having trouble vs. my friends shiek. he out speeds me with his tilts and dash attack, and just overall pisses me off. what should i do to win, other than play as another character that sheik doesnt own so bad?
 

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
Chaingrab his sheik to 80(which is easy as hell) then proceed with your choice of a fair, bair, or uair. Also CC his tilts and hit him with your d-tilt which can lead into you grabbing him and starting a chaingrab.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
Up angled f-smash to end the CG is generally the best option imo. It's easiest to land when they DI the throw away. Even if they DI it perfectly it still kills on stages that don't have a high ceiling. If they don't DI the throw (come down right into you basically) around that range you can u-smash to get the side hit of u-smash for a near guaranteed KO on any stage (it has a bit more knockback than Marth's tipped f-smash). Otherwise f-air, or b-air if they are close to the edge in that direction. You should also be able to dash and jump forward with a b-air if near the edge to still hit them off in that direction even when they DI to go straight up to try and escape, not just when they DI behind. If they're not close to to the edge and DI behind, I would suggest just regrabbing and waiting for DI that you can get a better finisher with, since you can CG for a good while after the normal escape percent if they keep DIing behind you. U-air is kind of a waste I would say, as you should be able to f-air in the same situations to finish that you can u-air.

And yeah, a big emphasis on the CC d-tilting if they tend to do more attacking than grabbing/needle grabbing. Works wonders. You can generally get a SH u-air at least, and at higher damage a f-air which will often KO or set up an edgeguard/hog.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
i'm having trouble with dthrow->bair on samus =\

is there a percentage where it's no longer guaranteed (assuming no DI or DI behind you)?
 

TheHiveMind

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
38
Location
Wayland, MA
one problem with the Cg is, I cant do it that well, and, what if im in a team battle or ffa where CG is not really possible? Im trying to learn to CG better, but its kind of hard starting from 0%.
 

bjdavis420

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
321
Location
Atlanta, Ga
I have 2 things, first off, when fighting Doc Mario, what is the best strategy against his cape when recovering? I know that Ganon will grab the edge, even if facing the wrong way, but how far above the level should I go in order to grab edge (or should I just try to barely grab the edge). I usually can come up and over Doc, but this leaves me vulnerable to any attack. Second, i would love to see a video with wallteching and spike teching (I know thats not what its called, but whatever). I have been practicing wall teching with the mine on the side of level, but I can only get it about 10% of time, and im not exactly sure why I get it those times vs. the times I miss. Thanks a lot for any help.
 
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