Ganon vs.

[flaco]

um yea thanks about the tip I would always try to but for now il will earn to use marth better but Istill dont get it I misss my fairs and sometimes the naris but when i land i l cancel try to put the shield on but i still get hit why?with them gannon legs

 

[technomancer]

Vs Falco, stand on a platform at low %s, and fudge around but just chill up there... Falco doesn't have huge knockback on his aerials at low %s.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

Vs Falco, stand on a platform at low %s, and fudge around but just chill up there... Falco doesn't have huge knockback on his aerials at low %s.

thats why it'll be easy to combo ganon, powershielding and reading techs is very important in this match up.

 

[Slamus]

Is there any good levels for fighting against Link? it would really help when I'm against my freind.

 

[maximuspita]

DreamLand 64 and BattleField

 

[Slamus]

Why battlefield?

 

[maximuspita]

Messes HookShot recovery.

 

[flaco]

The thing against ganon you need to have to beat him is patience and mindgames.Ganon could take a beating so dont be suprised that he will come back form marths foward smash or something like that but just take your time.

 

[maximuspita]

mindgames

Stop using this word, it brings nothing helpful to the discussion. Ganon's weight is only good to keep him onstage, once off stage you get edgeguarded rather easy.

 

[nitro-blazer]

Well, I played against a Ganon earlier today. Of course he wasn't pro, he does have issues with Kirby's crouch.

What I'm wondering is what moves Ganon can hit the Kirby crouch with? I know for a fact that Jab, Grab, Wizard's foot, certain aerials, F-tilt (Angled forward or up), F-smash (Angled forward or up), U-smash.

Forward B is easily crouch cancelled into a grab.

I know that some Aerials, tilts and angled smashes work, but what my friend wanted to know is what moves he can hit me with. I myself rarely play Ganon, or play against him for htat matter, so I'm asking here to help him out.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

Well, I played against a Ganon earlier today. Of course he wasn't pro, he does have issues with Kirby's crouch.

What I'm wondering is what moves Ganon can hit the Kirby crouch with? I know for a fact that Jab, Grab, Wizard's foot, certain aerials, F-tilt (Angled forward or up), F-smash (Angled forward or up), U-smash.

Forward B is easily crouch cancelled into a grab.

I know that some Aerials, tilts and angled smashes work, but what my friend wanted to know is what moves he can hit me with. I myself rarely play Ganon, or play against him for htat matter, so I'm asking here to help him out.

Ill stick my **** in Kirbys mouth and give him the power of ***!

Nicely put, Kirbys garbage.

 

[Lixivium]

What I'm wondering is what moves Ganon can hit the Kirby crouch with? I know for a fact that Jab, Grab, Wizard's foot, certain aerials, F-tilt (Angled forward or up), F-smash (Angled forward or up), U-smash.

Forward B is easily crouch cancelled into a grab.

I know that some Aerials, tilts and angled smashes work, but what my friend wanted to know is what moves he can hit me with. I myself rarely play Ganon, or play against him for htat matter, so I'm asking here to help him out.

D-tilt is an obvious one. Fast-falled B-Air will also work. Thunder drop (D-Air) will hit, but it's a little risky because Kirby (and all top tiers) can up-tilt Ganon out of it.

If all else fails, your friend can always switch to using Peach.

 

[mood4food77]

dair, uair, fair, dtilt, down b (in air), utilt, up b, forward b, i think a ftilt angled down, and get up attacks

all smashes miss, down b on the ground goes right over him, b misses most characters crouching, nair and bair have no way of hitting the ground, standing a doesn't either

 

[linkmastersword]

ok, because I'm not goign to even attempt to read through all the pages, I just want to throw this out there. As a seasoned Ganon player I truly believe both sheik and Zelda own him to death. I actually do much better against sheiks than zelda. And don't say I'm wrong unless you've played a real zelda player.

I hope to get some feedback on this, because those aerials destroy ganon's approach to anything. An offensive zelda may not be too difficult, but a zelda that just short hops aerials and can tilt combo in to usmash and fsmash is just the worst thing for ganon.

 

[mood4food77]

sheild cancel uairs **** the living hell outta zelda, once zelda's in the air, she's basically done, sheik can **** him, go have a cup of tea during the ******, and then **** some more if she wanted, but if you know how to fight a sheik, she can be easier than most people say she is, i pulled off a zero to 100% (something crazy high) on one today, it felt pretty good

 

[nitro-blazer]

Nicely put, Kirbys garbage.

Tell me something I don't know. Still, I came to talk / get advice about the matchup for my friend. Isn't that what this topic's about?

D-tilt is an obvious one. Fast-falled B-Air will also work. Thunder drop (D-Air) will hit, but it's a little risky because Kirby (and all top tiers) can up-tilt Ganon out of it.

If all else fails, your friend can always switch to using Peach.

dair, uair, fair, dtilt, down b (in air), utilt, up b, forward b, i think a ftilt angled down, and get up attacks

all smashes miss, down b on the ground goes right over him, b misses most characters crouching, nair and bair have no way of hitting the ground, standing a doesn't either

Thanks, I'll give him this now. He uses the D-tilt, but I've found a way around it.

Anyway, he's got Samus as a backup, (Crouch = Grapple fodder.)

 

[mood4food77]

CC against a ganon is practically non-existant, ganon is too powerful for an opponent to stay in range, just abuse fair if all he dose is attempt to CC

 

[TomH]

now i realize this post was made over 2 years ago... therefore my post wont really be considered, but from what i understand Samus has a huge disadvantage to Gannodorf. In fact Phanna plays as samus in every single fight except gannon fights, and he has practiced his shiek just for this fight.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

now i realize this post was made over 2 years ago... therefore my post wont really be considered, but from what i understand Samus has a huge disadvantage to Gannodorf. In fact Phanna plays as samus in every single fight except gannon fights, and he has practiced his shiek just for this fight.

this wasnt made over two years ago it started two years ago. its been developing since. the community effects how this list is structured and samus is seen as a "not so threatening but still tough" character. IMO, its game vs ganon.

 

[linkmastersword]

this wasnt made over two years ago it started two years ago. its been developing since. the community effects how this list is structured and samus is seen as a "not so threatening but still tough" character. IMO, its game vs ganon.

if that's what you think, then you need to make some corrections to the front page. Also, the IC's have an advantage of ganon I'd say. he's easily 0-death grab ***** by ICs, maybe not when this was first created, but now the true IC power has been revealed. I just think the first page needs some updates.

 

[maximuspita]

No Nana, No death grab, Ganon can pound on Nana something nasty. They can still beast on ganon but ganon should have the upper hand.

 

[linkmastersword]

No Nana, No death grab, Ganon can pound on Nana something nasty. They can still beast on ganon but ganon should have the upper hand.

From my experiences with the ICs I either get 3 stocked, or I 3 stock the person, it all depends on skill level, but lets face it, ICs are awesome when they can grab and ganon is extremely easily grabbed.

 

[Thomas Tipman]

if that's what you think, then you need to make some corrections to the front page. Also, the IC's have an advantage of ganon I'd say. he's easily 0-death grab ***** by ICs, maybe not when this was first created, but now the true IC power has been revealed. I just think the first page needs some updates.

Its Not what I think, its what the community has agreed upon up to this point whether they post frequently about it or not. What I think is in my guide and as far as ICs are concerned in my book it can be close but they lose.

 

[linkmastersword]

Mr. Tipman, what is ganon's hardest fight in your opinion?

 

[Thomas Tipman]

Easily Shiek.

 

[linkmastersword]

ok, but what if you rule out chain grabbing? I seriously can't stand a peach that camps, I can handle shieks that don't chain grab, but peaches... AAAHHHHH!!!!! **** THEM!

 

[Thomas Tipman]

In PAL Im sure its a bit easier but tilts and slaps are still way faster and even without a chaingrab she has the ability to tech chase or scare you into double jumping and its game. Peach on the other hand is game for Ganon, if theyre any characters you would consider Ganon a counter for Peach would be one of them. Catch turnips and drop them in the air if youre having problems with camping, try doing an aerial afterwards if youre being rushed down. Its one of those matches that take a bit of practice and patience to play.

 

[linkmastersword]

I'll send a link to a match of me vs peach, and one of me vs marth. (both are played well, but the peach isn't campy so I do alright.) Just let me know any tactics that I need work on, I really would like to know how to grab peach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imz1QQTrJGE (peach at corneria, quality is wierd but very watchable)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QVn8HU2CLs&mode=related&search= (marth at fd, quality is ok, but it glares for a second at transitions in background)

these were recorded on a web cam, but your input against peach is greaty appreciated.

 

[mood4food77]

peach, let her use her dsmash, ganon is one of the few characters who can abuse it, especially on platfom stages

 

[linkmastersword]

how on plat form stages, just do an usmash? or what, a quick aerial if she misses with the dsmash?

 

[mood4food77]

uair right after the move is done, it works great, usmash works better at high percents (when you know it's going to kill)

 

[linkmastersword]

I love landing the dair on peach with ganon, so sometimes I spam that more than I should.

but it gives me so many **** options, especially if she's damaged and tries ccing it. Usmash ftw.

 

[Nemi]

forgive me for not reading through every page, but i thought...

as maybe the only character to outprioritize/outpower peach, ganon was *the* peach counter?

 

[Fox Hater]

Any one has a way to fight fox with ganon ( a vid or something) I heard tipman beated chillin but I still cant belive it. so what could be a tip for fighting him. Counter pick stage etc

 

[Ulti]

I think there was a topic about this somewhere but oh well....

I found the best counter-pick stage to be Dreamland64. No, you won't get the ~50% KOs you might get on YS, but I'd argue you get much more protection from Fox's vertical KOs. When Fox goes in for a u-throw, just DI left or right, since he's probably going for the u-air. Smash the stick sideways when he goes for a u-smash too (you'll do it accidently at first, but with enough practice you'll have a fair amount of influence on your trajectory). When fox isn't u-throw/u-air/u-smash, you can DI up for about 90% of his other attacks (d-tilt and u-tilt being the only real exceptions). Smash the stick fast enough, and you'll only die to u-throw -> u-air (which still kills below 100% sadly), and shine-spikes while recovering (although, even these can be recovered from if he doesn't hit you while you're under the stage).

Now for attacking fox (the real fun part). If his tech skill is somewhat lacking, you can probably get away with shield grabbing his aerials, and then d-throw to stomp (my personal favorite to pull, since if they don't know how to fight 'dorf you can stomp them several more times, or end it in a f-air). If he's shffling perfectlyl and following with a shine, however, that option is closed to you. Please don't turtle up if you face a technically sound fox. Instead, keep moving and search for an opening (whiffed attacks for example). Then go for a JC grab and follow up with a combo from there.

Speaking of combos, ganon has a few decent combos. The most spectacular (and, inevitably, the hardest to pull off) start at around 0%. As mentioned earlier, d-throw -> is great when it lands, but asks for punishment when it doesn't. Instead, try u-throws at lower percents (followed by an aerial of tilt of course), and switch to d-throws at mid-high %s. While throws are often the main way in which ganon gets his combos in, he has others. F-b is one alternative to throws; it sends fox upwards while dealing a refreshing 15% damage, but it has some nasty lag if your foe dodges. D-smash is similar to f-b (good laucher, high damage, bad lag), but it can lead into by another combo starter (u-throw at low percents I believe). The STOMP is a another risky alternative, sharing many of the traits his f-b/d-smash have. Finally, d-tilt is a rather slow attack, but used sparingly in conjunction with the wavedash I find that I can often pop up slippery foes at just the right height for a f-air.
This isn't really a combo, but another thing I enjoy doing at low percecnts is just jabbing fox 2 or three times at the beginning of each of his stock if he gets too aggressive and predictable. Nothing like a free 20% to start the match.

Also edge-gaurd fox. After you knock him off, get ready to intercept/punish his side-b if he's above the stage, or grab the ledge and u-air him if he's below. If you're waiting while he's charging up his firefox, stall at the ledge (grab ledge -> drop -> re-grab in quick succession), to get some invincibility while you edge-guard. Don't let him back on the stage. Think of letting him back on as him getting a new stock, but you lose out on some of your two-hit combos.

Hope this helps.

 

[petre]

i have a question, but didnt want to make a new topic for it...whats the best counter stage against a peach?

 

[KevinM]

I would say YS for peach, easy kill zones and platforms to speed up your ganon... i personally like that against my friends peach

 

[C 3]

This is great advice, I will save this and read over this stuff to help me in my next tournament

 

[squaminator]

i find that mute city is a great stage against fox because its to small that you can nearly perpetually edgeguard, and it's easy for canon to recover cause his up+b is more offensive. could you tell me your opinion on the matter?

oh yeah, +rep.

 

[C 3]

Falco vs. Ganon is really tough, considering Ganon/Falcon can't really sweet spot, and Falco can use his ridiculous dair.

Other than that, this information has been very useful, thanks again Tipman.