Ganon META Thread : discussions and suggestions go here !

[C_Mill24]

Does anyone else find Ganon's float kind of non-intuitive to use?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Not really

 

[C_Mill24]

It may be because I'm more used to Mewtwo's float.

 

[Scuba Steve]

They're used very differently, so it makes sense that you would have some trouble with it

 

[Cpt.]

Use Ganondorf's float as a mixup and for edge guard pressure.

 

[devilshead]

I don't really care for Ganondorf's new neutral b attack. It has no power and sucks in general, it is a freaking b**** slap. I, and some others actually prefer his old warlock punch, however I do recognize that quite a few people do prefer the new attack. I think I have a solution to this. Make it so if you are playing as ganondorf's standard, original smash bros look, you have warlock punch as the neutral b, and if you are playing as the alternate Orcarina of time look, it has the new slap as the neutral b attack. That way you get a choice, and can silence those who are unhappy on both sides of the fence.

 

[Player -0]

Ganon's new nB is a LOT more useful than the old warlock punch. The PMDT has stated before that costumes are for visual effect only and they won't make changes to costumes that affect gameplay to a great extent.

The aerial warlock punch was effectively useless because of its startup and Ganon can't go anywhere from running momentum. The grounded one was replaced by the Down Taunt (hold it to 420blaze on them scrubs). The Sword Taunt is also much better than the warlock punch because of the extra range and super armor.

 

[Bazkip]

I don't really care for Ganondorf's new neutral b attack. It has no power and sucks in general, it is a freaking b**** slap. I, and some others actually prefer his old warlock punch, however I do recognize that quite a few people do prefer the new attack. I think I have a solution to this. Make it so if you are playing as ganondorf's standard, original smash bros look, you have warlock punch as the neutral b, and if you are playing as the alternate Orcarina of time look, it has the new slap as the neutral b attack. That way you get a choice, and can silence those who are unhappy on both sides of the fence.

I take it you haven't pressed B in the air.
I suggest you go and try that.

 

[devilshead]

I know how his new move allows him to float buddy, but floating tends to be really punishable, and seriously, the b*tch slap is just ******** looking, and is useless for actually trying to fight someone. In addition it doesn't keep with Ganondorf's MO of crushing, smashing, and obliterating the competition. Warlock punch could be quite deadly if you got the timing right, but this slap has no power or real use for fighting/doing damage/ K.O.ing. The reflective ability can be useful, if you can spot the thing coming, and aren't busy beating the crap out of someone else. It has serious potential against say Samus, but can be a real hindrance against many of the other characters. Also, when you are fighting multiple people at the same time, especially when they all use different characters, it is generally a hindrance. In addition, there is the difficulty of timing the slap to make the reflection happen. I also never said anything about removing the sword taunt attack, that thing is just sheer awesome, and should totally be kept in all future project M versions.

 

[CORY]

floating is punishable, but... wizard's punch... isn't?

use the slap to jab reset people who like to purposely miss tech out of side b, then regrab or smash them. you can disrespect by dthrow-slap-regrab, to show they don't know the simple things in this game, like sdi (or even just di), or super disrespect by backhanding someone recovering and getting the ultimate gimp.

just learn to use the float, punch isn't coming back. it was an, ultimately, useless move on a character that can't afford useless moves. go deep offstage and fair someone recovering from the edge of the screen. use it to throw off timing when you catch momentum in the match, so you're not predictable. toss it into tech chases to extend them (or to reverse momentum with b reverses, to catch people rolling back behind you).

just learn to use the overall much better move that you now have.

and it won't be switching around to a "give one costume this and another costume the other" because what if someone prefers to float with the twilight princess model? still not pleasing everyone. that, along with the fact that pmdt's said that costumes are only going to offer aesthetic changes.

 

[Bazkip]

Warlock Punch was secretly OP we just never realized it.

 

[redcometchar]

Does anyone here use Dair -> Footstool?

 

[Mywhy]

Footstool>Dair a lot.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Float is good.

It isn't a make or break move - it's just a move lol. In deeper meta you can trick people recovering by conditioning them to think you'll float THEN go offstage melee style.

And the bish slhap is okay as well. Learn to reflect stuff and your opponent will be like "oh crap, he can do that" and even if you cant actually reflect stuff, them knowing you can will put fear into them.

Heck, I actually reflected PK Cross in pools one time. I bursted out laughing - WHO KNEW?!

 

[Player -0]

PK Cross

That's not what it's called in this game

 

[Electric Tuba]

Yeah, it's PK froyo

 

[Beets]

Float is good.

It isn't a make or break move - it's just a move lol. In deeper meta you can trick people recovering by conditioning them to think you'll float THEN go offstage melee style.

And the bish slhap is okay as well. Learn to reflect stuff and your opponent will be like "oh crap, he can do that" and even if you cant actually reflect stuff, them knowing you can will put fear into them.

Heck, I actually reflected PK Cross in pools one time. I bursted out laughing - WHO KNEW?!

BRZZZZZRP! Pretend MOTHER fan detected! BOING!



They should for realsies add Mr. Saturn font face to this board.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Jeez one mistake and the peanut gallery crucifies me ((

Idk my bad though point being, it can be reflected with the cape.

 

[Beets]

Jeez one mistake and the peanut gallery crucifies me ((

Idk my bad though point being, it can be reflected with the cape.

I was just playing.

my b.

 

[Electric Tuba]

That's pretty funny. It probably doesn't work on Ness/Lucas' PKT2, right? I forget if it's just projectiles or what

 

[RelaxAlax]

Never tried, but imagine no.

How cool would it be if it was like Mario's Cape though I'm curious to know if they tested such a thing. With such a strict timing on it, it really wouldn't be that game changing but a fun mixup tool. Maybe it looked weird.

 

[Bazkip]

No it'd be stupid.
Cause cape is ****ing stupid.

Most braindead tool in the game.

 

[Bazkip]

Okay so
I think we just need to be more like bidooof

I'm loving that bair > breverse float owo

Terrible DI on the fair though that shouldn't have killed lol

 

[redcometchar]

That is crazy. Does bidoof go to tournaments?

 

[Bazkip]

That is crazy. Does bidoof go to tournaments?

I wish he did. He lives like 10-15 minutes away from the location of the weeklies here in Montreal but he never shows anymore. It pisses me off, we'd get so much for viewership if he'd come. He's just too content to stay at home and play netplay, I guess

He generally plays G&W in bracket though.

 

[Reidlos Toof]

I still wish Ganon had a projectile, something kinda like his signature orb attack from the Zelda games. It could have the same property as Dedede's Gordos in Smash 4, where in it will be knocked back if hit with an attack. It could get faster and stronger with each volley, giving it a unique risk/reward factor when deciding to knock it back. I just don't know where the move would go.

 

[Bazkip]

I just don't know where the move would go.

Nowhere, cause they can't add projectiles.

 

[redcometchar]

Nowhere, cause they can't add projectiles.

Really? Why is that?

 

[RelaxAlax]

He has to have one initially in his moveset. Since he doesn't, they can't put one in.

 

[redcometchar]

Thats interesting. Didnt know that.

 

[Reidlos Toof]

That is interesting. I remember reading something about that a couple of years ago, but I figured they would have found a way around that by now.

 

[bubbaking]

Ganon has a projectile in Brawl-, though. What's up with that?

I see you guys were discussing the uses of cape/float earlier. Don't forget floating is also an incredible recovery tool. DJ > downB > float forwards > (rinse and repeat if you're high enough) > DJ out and recover. The distance gained is substantial, and the float at the end also lets us outstall ledgehoggers, mix up our recovery, and fine-tune our distance. I'm not sure why anyone would even suggest that the float is bad at all. My only gripe is that you can only do limited things out of it - jump, forced drop, cape, or wait (to drop) - so you have to make sure to float after downB but before the DJ. Regardless, it's a good move that fits Ganon well.

 

[Reidlos Toof]

Ganon has a projectile in Brawl-, though. What's up with that?

I see you guys were discussing the uses of cape/float earlier. Don't forget floating is also an incredible recovery tool. DJ > down > float forwards > (rinse and repeat if you're high enough) > DJ out and recover. The distance gained is substantial, and the float at the end also lets us outstall ledgehoggers, mix up our recovery, and fine-tune our distance. I'm not sure why anyone would even suggest that the float is bad at all. My only gripe is that you can only do limited things out of it - jump, forced drop, cape, or wait (to drop) - so you have to make sure to float after downB but before the DJ. Regardless, it's a good move that fits Ganon well.

I believe it uses the projectile from the Super Scope. From what I understand, they can redesign any projectile and give it to a character, but they can't make entirely new projectiles, meaning if they did that and you played with items on, the super scope would then shoot whatever projectile you had given to Ganon, rather than the normal Super Scope shot. I may be wrong though. Even though most PM players don't use items, the PMDT doesn't want there to be any janky overlap like that.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

What do you guys think about d-throw reworks? I've heard people say that their ideal Ganon changelist would be a better grab hitbox, chainthrows almost entirely removed, and slightly faster ground movement. Although I love love love chaingrabbing people, I can't argue that its awful design- especially when coupled with Ganon's pitiful grab range. I think that a slightly better dashdance would be cool (increases utility of his pivots) and I wouldn't mind a slight boost on his speed when using float. Other than that, I honestly haven't felt too kneecapped by my character lately. Almost every loss feels like a personal failing rather than a flaw in Ganon's design.

 

[CORY]

we were talking about that in another thread somewhere.

i feel ganon's in mostly a good spot right now, just needs a few quality of life touch ups, primarily, then either make fast characters have worse conversions overall or give ganon a slightly better neutral, and he fits his niche really well (big bruiser who takes up space and is a kill threat past mid%).