Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Do you guys use cstick for tilts or smash? I find it a bit hard both ways to not have angled fsmash sometimes show as usmash or dsmash, does this happen to anyone else?

 

[Burruni]

Do you guys use cstick for tilts or smash? I find it a bit hard both ways to not have angled fsmash sometimes show as usmash or dsmash, does this happen to anyone else?

Smash and angling F-Smash is really.. weird.
It's certainly not like Mac.

 

[King9999]

Can someone list Corrin's cons? I haven't seen any glaring faults so far, but then I've only played a few hours.

Cons? Let's see:

-up B is a bit tricky, especially when you want to fly straight up. I would've made it so that Corrin goes straight up by default.
-N-air & B-air don't autocancel on SH

...And that's it, I guess? Corrin doesn't seem to have any glaring weaknesses. At least, not until we play with him/her more.

 

[Burruni]

So.
Day 3 Corrin Tech
If someone tries to ledge trump you.
You can side b into the stage and snag them. Forward kick is TECHABLE but will bounces them off the stage.

 

[ARGHETH]

Can someone list Corrin's cons? I haven't seen any glaring faults so far, but then I've only played a few hours.

The most glaring faults are his air/ground speed and recovery. He's kind of slow, which limits followups when the opponent goes horizontally, and his air speed combines with a weird recovery to make Corrin's recovery kind of mediocre. He needs his Bair to recover a lot of the time...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Cons? Let's see:

-up B is a bit tricky, especially when you want to fly straight up. I would've made it so that Corrin goes straight up by default.
-N-air & B-air don't autocancel on SH

...And that's it, I guess? Corrin doesn't seem to have any glaring weaknesses. At least, not until we play with him/her more.

Truthfully, being able to change the angle of Corrin's third jump helps make it more effective for recovery.

 

[Masonomace]

Does anyone know what Corrin's running speed value is? I understand that he's not all that speedy, but it never hurts to make sure.

Edit: While I'm at it, how fast is Corrin's falling speed?

Corrin's run speed rivals Ike, & that's around ~1.5

Corrin's fall speed rivals R.O.B., & that's around ~1.6

 

[Delzethin]

Yeah, Corrin isn't slow, his mobility is merely below average.

 

[Deleted member]

How do you guys feel about up smash?

I personally don't feel like the flack it gets is deserved. It certainly has poor horizontal range, but it's a decent anti-air (even if up tilt is better in that regard) and is great on Battlefield and Dream Land due to the platforms.

 

[Burruni]

How do you guys feel about up smash?

I personally don't feel like the flack it gets is deserved. It certainly has poor horizontal range, but it's a decent anti-air (even if up tilt is better in that regard) and is great on Battlefield and Dream Land due to the platforms.

The VERTICAL range seems pretty bad, imo.
And it just... doesn't seem like it can kill.

 

[Deleted member]

The VERTICAL range seems pretty bad, imo.
And it just... doesn't seem like it can kill.

When tippered, the thing can kill pretty dang early. It's particularly dangerous to those who have very poor vertical endurance (Kirby, Puff, Fox)

 

[Burruni]

When tippered, the thing can kill pretty dang early. It's particularly dangerous to those who have very poor vertical endurance (Kirby, Puff, Fox)

I just haven't been hitting the sweetspot..
I blame playing Roy too much.

 

[Deleted member]

I just haven't been hitting the sweetspot..
I blame playing Roy too much.

Forget about Roy. Corrin's our boy.

That's really the thing about Corrin's smashes. They only pack a real punch when tippered, so you have to be careful with your spacing of them. Down smash is probably the easiest move to hit the tipper with.

 

[Masonomace]

Also, Corrin's max air speed rivals Robin, so it's around ~1

 

[OceloT42]

Why do people think Corrin is slow? For me the speed is way above what we thought it would be to compensate his reach.
Hell, I was fearing that we would get a bad character and we got a god instead.

 

[Travitoninja99]

Fair is absolutely incredible, it's fast and very useful for combos and has many hit confirms at many percents; at low-middle percentages I can get off 3 Fairs in a row with a grounded opponent. Definitely one of her best moves for combos and extra damage.
Bair is a fantastic spacing tool and very safe on shield, also the only aerial that sends your opponent horizontally. Good kill power as well.
We all know that Uair is ridiculously amazing as a kill move, good range and comes out quickly, 7 frames.
Dtilt is also a fast and reliable combo starter, comes out in 5 frames and leads into some hit confirms at middle-high percents.
I'm loving Corrin so far, she's amazing, her aerials are great and she has great mix-ups, and can catch your opponent off guard with her Fsmash and her SideB, which btw, has a tipper of its own that kills very early; if you can use the tipper of SideB, your opponent is screwed.
Also an extra note, it seems some people like ZeRo saying that Dthrow is a good kill throw, but Uthrow actually kills earlier in pretty much all cases, it has a much higher KBG

 

[Deleted member]

Corrin's fair reminds me of 's fair due to it sending at a more vertical angle unlike most forward airs and its very good combo ability. Only difference is that Corrin's isn't a KO move at high percents like Wolf's... man, I miss him. But this topic ain't about that.

I agree on back air. Great move. It's like R.O.B.'s but better in every single way, and it aids his recovery quite well. How come I don't see any Corrins using bair to help them recover? Do itttt.

Down tilt is a move that makes me think "Damn it , why didn't you get your Melee down tilt back in this game?" But aside from that, I love the move too. Perfect combo starter for Corrin.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I agree on back air. Great move. It's like R.O.B.'s but better in every single way, and it aids his recovery quite well. How come I don't see any Corrins using bair to help them recover? Do itttt.

I tried the b-air, but frankly, from what I've seen, it doesn't help Corrin's recovery "that" much.

 

[Travitoninja99]

How do you guys feel about up smash?

I personally don't feel like the flack it gets is deserved. It certainly has poor horizontal range, but it's a decent anti-air (even if up tilt is better in that regard) and is great on Battlefield and Dream Land due to the platforms.

I agree completely, I saw ZeRo's video and I was surprised he wasn't fond of it, because like you say, on stages like Battlefield and Dream Land, it creates a dangerous obstacle for your opponent to land on the lower platforms, and at that range it has great knockback. It might not be great outside of that, but nevertheless it's a great tool and it puts the opponent in a precarious position if they are above you or on platforms.

I only have a 3DS XL, so no C-Stick, but if I had a Wii U I'd set my C-stick to Attack so I could move forward and use Bair to help propel myself even further. Anyone with the ability to do so should utilize this!

 

[GoldenMapleLeaf]

U-smash gets some use. I'll admit I had trouble hitting it too on the first day, but I've found that I can hit it when the situation calls for it, mostly.

I have Smash for 3DS (2DS specifically), so maybe I'm not too helpful in this regard, but I find angling F-smash pretty easy. You can change the angle while it's charging too, if that wasn't already said.

Also, I find that Up-B is a pretty good move to use against Bayonetta in the air, in case of Witch Time. With Uair or Nair I'd get caught all the time, but that special seems pretty safe. How about you guys?

 

[Deleted member]

Up-B is a good OoS option that can catch some opponents by surprise, sorta like Roy's Blazer. I think it's a pretty good move.

 

[Nah]

Does Dragon Ascent really have the horizontal range and frame data to be a good OoS option? Because if it does that'd be great.

 

[Masonomace]

The first hit of UpB is frame 18. So. . .I'm not sure I'd put my faith in that as an oos option. The horizontal range from the front is alright but you have to be a bit close-up & if you're not in range of hitting them then at least you have the water push-effect.

EDIT: Oh forgot it has invincibility on startup. Lemme figure out what that is real quick.

 

[Zionaze]

10-17 it has invincibility

 

[Masonomace]

Cool. I just saw on the game via frame skip method that it starts on frame 10, but cool. 10 - 17 justifies the frame 18 startup then.

 

[OceloT42]

No way upB is a good OoS option,too slow(NO SONIC GO AWAY)
I play on a 3DS XL,and so far haven't pulled off an instant pin.Anyone having this trouble?
Other than that DL is such a sweet sweet move.So satisfying to pierce an opponent offstage.Also, while pinning stage walls you can pin opponents as well,and stage spike them with kicks.
And in very rare situations, you can footstool after a Dair offstage.

 

[ARGHETH]

I play on a 3ds,and so far haven't pulled off an instant pin.Anyone having this trouble?

I use a 3ds xl and I'm doing it easily...just slide your thumb directly from B to A.

 

[IsmaR]

I agree completely, I saw ZeRo's video and I was surprised he wasn't fond of it, because like you say, on stages like Battlefield and Dream Land, it creates a dangerous obstacle for your opponent to land on the lower platforms, and at that range it has great knockback. It might not be great outside of that, but nevertheless it's a great tool and it puts the opponent in a precarious position if they are above you or on platforms.

I only have a 3DS XL, so no C-Stick, but if I had a Wii U I'd set my C-stick to Attack so I could move forward and use Bair to help propel myself even further. Anyone with the ability to do so should utilize this!

Try to use the edit button instead of posting twice or more times in a row, por favor.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Does Corrin tipper only activate after the lance has extended completely? I think so but am not sure.

 

[StarForce]

No way upB is a good OoS option,too slow(NO SONIC GO AWAY)
I play on a 3ds,and so far haven't pulled off an instant pin.Anyone having this trouble?
Other than that DL is such a sweet sweet move.So satisfying to pierce an opponent offstage.Also, while pinning stage walls you can pin opponents as well,and stage spike them with kicks.
And in very rare situations, you can footstool after a Dair offstage.

Agree. I only play on a 2DS and just today I footstooled Rosalina after a Dair way below stage already on magnifying glass range and I got up back to the stage with the added push & DA recovery. Needless to say Rosalina lost. Also I've killed with the upsmash but it's not entirely the best move unless tipped. I do find also Corrin to be a tad bit slow. But it's not so bad.

 

[shadowdude]

So me and a friend figured out today in a corrin ditto that you can completely stop a get-up attack with the hit box that stays out while you charge f-smash if spaced right.

I don't know if this works on all character but this feels like something important to note because it let you hit them with a free charged f-smash which can ko at higher %'s

EDIT:this is probably known but on battle field if you side b on the ground bellow one of the two side platforms and with the little hop he does,if you side-b around the peak of the hop you will stick to the platform.

 

[Travitoninja99]

So me and a friend figured out today in a corrin ditto that you can stop a get-up attack with the hit box that stays out while you charge f-smash if spaced right.

I don't know if this works on all character but this feels like something important to note because it let you hit them with a free charged f-smash which can ko at higher %'s

This is great to know! Time to test on which characters it works on

 

[King9999]

I'm guessing the charged f-smash won't work on anyone with a disjointed get-up attack.

 

[vegeta18]

Corrin has 4 options out of dragon lunge. Jump,front kick, back kick, and cancel. How do you do the cancel? do you just wait out the move?

 

[Killtrox]

I foresee Captain Falcon dropping even further on tier lists. Been facing a lot of Corrins today and it's absolutely one of Corrin's better matchups.

Despite the speed difference, Corrin can wall CF out pretty easily and can juggle him with fair. As in jump, fair, jump, fair, fast fall, jump, fair. Forward Smash aimed downard obliterates CF's recovery, and it caught me through the ledge I think two times as well.

Anyone here been having an easy time against Captain Falcon players specifically?

 

[King9999]

Corrin has 4 options out of dragon lunge. Jump,front kick, back kick, and cancel. How do you do the cancel? do you just wait out the move?

I think cancel is the jump move.

 

[ARGHETH]

Corrin has 4 options out of dragon lunge. Jump,front kick, back kick, and cancel. How do you do the cancel? do you just wait out the move?

I think cancel is the jump move.

Jump is jump. We've been trying to figure out if cancel means anything more than waiting the move out to no success, so that's the definition we're going on for now.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: More DL Fun Facts and Stuff

So I've been screwing around more with DL stuff over the past 2 days.

I was meaning to post this yesterday but I became busy so I'm posting it now.

Anyways,

As we all know, DL can pin to walls, which means that (again, as we all know), DL can pin opponents who are hanging from the ledge without invincibility, allowing Corrin to kick the opponent into the stage for a stage spike.

A good amount of this post will revolve around the testing I did in relation to that:

On that note please be aware that my testing was performed with Smash 3DS (simply because I don't have access to my Wii U right now) with various characters on mostly Battlefield and FD, although I did do some testing on sharply angled omegas (such as Omega Arena Ferox) as well, walled Omegas were ignored simply because the stage spike trajectory would have been the same in all situations.

First and foremost, (although I have not explicitly confirmed this, I believe it to be reasonable) the stage spikes which result from either a forwards or backwards kick are techable (the forward kick was really the only one up for debate as untechable IMO because of it's slightly (yet still notably) higher hitlag than the back kick, and since I don't believe the Untechable theory to be disproven, when hitlag overlaps with recoil lag (the time a character spends "stuck" to the wall when they are bouncing off of it as a result of being hit into it), it is impossible to tech (credit goes to the Beefy Smash Doods for this discovery, their video explaining all of it is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8rpifNUEYo)).

While the above is true, I feel that the fact that Corrin can mix up the timing on when she decides to kick during the DL pin will help in preventing the stage spike from always being teched.

Now then, the important (IMO) technicalities concerning DL and the stage spike:

• A second DL cannot be used in the air if you choose to back kick and go further offstage (kind of obvious but I foresee this question being asked).
• The stage spike trajectory will depend on the stage's ledge design, some will spike horizontally and some will spike towards the bottom corner.
• I believe this stage spike to be possible on most characters, I did not test against the entire roster, however I did test against both the largest and smallest characters on the cast (, , ; , ). I found that Jigglypuff seems to be immune to this, and I consider this in large part to be due to both her floatiness and small size, floatiness and size being two significant factors in regards to the stage spike's effectiveness. There may exist more character exceptions in the middle range of the cast, but I feel like the results of this testing can be reasonably extrapolated to claim that it will work on every member of the cast save for Jigglypuff. This has yet to be proven, however.
• As mentioned, floatiness and hurtbox size are factors in the stage spike's effectiveness and consistenc. For example, I was able to consistently stage spike with either kick (in fact iirc it always worked on Dorf when pinned out of the ledge.), however, when testing with , the stage spike came less consistently. I attribute this to the fact that Bowser's hurtbox is slightly larger overall than Ganondorf's, so when the kick connected, in certain situations enough of his hurtbox registered as being "over the ledge" so that Bowser avoided the stage spike and simply flew through the air over it.
• An additional factor that I believe may be significant is the opponent's ability to SDI the pin. Presuming that pin SDI is possible, the opponent would be able to SDI upwards and/or towards Corrin in order to force his/her hurtbox over the ledge such that when Corrin performs one of the kicks the opponent avoids the stage spike. I believe this factor would be significant across the entire cast, in particular affecting those characters against whom the stage spike may not be very consistent.
• The forward kick's trajectory angle is slightly yet notably higher than that of the back kick, factoring in potential SDI I could see this making the forward kick possibly less consistent then back kick on characters who are not consistently stage spiked by the kicks.
• Due to the fact that Corrin flies out towards the blast zone after the backwards kick, she is able to follow up on the wallbounce with one of her aerials if the stage spike is sending the opponent far enough. This, granted, usually won't be necessary aside from style points but sometimes even Corrin's aerials all have very vertical trajectories save for Bair can be enough to seal the stock when the opponent is that close to the horizontal blast zone, % dependent this can also combo into Uair and kill off the top. These sorts of follow-ups only apply to stages on which a horizontal stage spike happens, however.
• On stages where the stage spike sends the opponent towards the bottom corner, Corrin can simply DJ back after the kick and cover the space with an aerial or air-stalled-DFS (no projectile charge, since Corrin doesn't stall during projectile charge, trying to charge the projectile will usually mean Corrin's death) bite, which may be effective considering the size of Corrin's hitboxes, even know her hitboxes usually have vertical trajectories. Such space coverage won't usually apply unless the opponent's character can actually come back from such a stage spike, otherwise it is best to simply come back to the stage and let the opponent fall to the blast zone.
• It should be noted that it is possible for Corrin to B-Reverse DFS immediately after the end of the backwards kick (which must have at most very little projectile/bite charge (none is usually better for the sake of consistency) in order for Corrin to have enough height afterwards to come back), what this allows Corrin to do is then throw out a Bair in the direction of the blast zone as she is coming back, while also using Bair's horizontal movement to move her closer to the ledge. Such a frame-risky option is something that I consider important to note simply because Bair is Corrin's only aerial that can reasonably kill off the side, and the positioning that Corrin is in when she performs the Bair for this sequence is actually naturally good considering that it is in the general area that the opponent will be when they are attempting to recover from this low.
• Some additional notes about the above sequence:

1. It is very frame-precise.
2. It is imperative when performing this Bair sequence that you jump immediately after DFS ends, when Corrin successfully makes it back she just barely reaches the ledge so you need all the height you can save.
3. Furthermore, I have found it to be a little easier/better to wait until the apex of the double jump (or until you are reasonably close to this point) before throwing out the Bair, the horizontal distance covered is similar to that covered if you were to throw the Bair out immediately after the start of the double jump and Corrin actually preserves some height if she waits until the top of the double jump since Bair actually pushes her down slightly as it pushes her forwards.
4. I would recommend using an Attack Stick and simply holding towards the stage throughout so that you can maximize the horizontal distance from the Bair while you are coming back since the input on the C-stick won't affect Corrin's aerial momentum.
5. When Corrin uses Dragon Ascent to come back at the end, she will be sitting at its maximum range, so be sure to tilt back to get maximum height.

That about covers my thoughts on the DL stage spike.

On to some other things:

As we all have seen, Corrin gets a notable amount of momentum shift from B-reversing DFS, what some may not be aware of is that this momentum shift is amplified a significant amount when Corrin aerially B-reverses DFS immediately after the end of a DL kick. Such a momentum shift is why Corrin is able to still come back to the stage after B-reversing DFS from the backwards ledge kick as mentioned in the Bair sequence above.

Some additional things to note:

• The stall associated with the DFS bite will essentially cancel all of the momentum gained in the B-reverse momentum shift, so charging the projetcile for longer will allow Corrin to travel further, charging it less will stop her earlier.
• This momentum shift is significant to the point that Corrin can DL forwards kick from the center of the top Battlefield platform, immediately B-Reverse DFS and land back on stage right next to the ledge. You can imagine how this affects her positioning when it is used out of a DL elsewhere (especially when you don't momentum cancel with a bite, i.e. let the projectile charge).

Now, not only does B-reversing have a significant effect when used in conjunction with DFS, but so also does simply performing turnaround DFS in the air (pivot like B-reverse without the momentum shift). In particular, due to the air-stall that the bite sequence has, Corrin can easily run off-stage, immediately turn-around DFS (no projectile charge), and she will be hovering right next to and directly covering the ledge with the bite (which attains full charge while keeping Corrin stalled, though she does slightly fall). This works due to the fact that the DFS bite cancels momentum, so Corrin doesn't proceed to fly towards the blast zone.

On the note of using bite-stalling with DFS to cover the ledge, Corrin can also cover the ledge out of a ledge drop double jump -> no-charge DFS projectile -> charged bite. This is particularly useful after Corrin has trumped the ledge if the opponent is forced to regrab and recovering low, since if timed well (and depending on the timing of the opponent's recovery in regards to returning to the ledge, among other factors such as U-B hitboxes, etc) it leads to fantastic damage and a potential stage spike. Corrin can also simply run off and bite-stall DFS while facing the blastzone to cover horizontal/higher-trajectory attempts at the ledge.

I will end these comments with some fun facts (not particularly practical (as I consider the above to potentially be but interesting IMO):

• Due to the fact that Corrin actually rises slightly in the initial frames of her Dair, she can SH dair and will actually land on Battlefield's lower platforms.
• I have found that the slight lift incurred from the default bite-stall (no projectile charge) is actually slightly higher if Corrin performs a "5-10%" or so charge on the bite (no projectile charge). The difference is hardly noticeable but it is a difference.
• Sometimes when Corrin pins the underside of a stage like Battlefield, the near-instantaneous positional shift she experiences when the pin registers is enough to cause her to snap to the ledge from abnormally long distances (outside of the usual magnet-hands range by a wide margin).

----------------

This is all I have to say for now, I hope this research can be of some use.

I personally believe that Corrin will have a notable amount of movement options and mix-ups whenever she has platforms on which she can DL.

(Also it'd be amazing if Dragon Ascent could edge cancel but it can't )

Thank you for reading.

 

[Patriot Duck]

Landing late nair (6%) to uair seems to be a kill confirm around 90-100%. I've pulled it off on Sheik and Falcon in training mode already. We should look into this more.

 

[OceloT42]

Corrin has 4 options out of dragon lunge. Jump,front kick, back kick, and cancel. How do you do the cancel? do you just wait out the move?

Yeah, bit of a bummer really, seeing how they can wiggle out of it, but from a balance perspective it's quite understandable

Spoiler: More DL Fun Facts and Stuff

So I've been screwing around more with DL stuff over the past 2 days.

I was meaning to post this yesterday but I became busy so I'm posting it now.

Anyways,

As we all know, DL can pin to walls, which means that (again, as we all know), DL can pin opponents who are hanging from the ledge without invincibility, allowing Corrin to kick the opponent into the stage for a stage spike.

A good amount of this post will revolve around the testing I did in relation to that:

On that note please be aware that my testing was performed with Smash 3DS (simply because I don't have access to my Wii U right now) with various characters on mostly Battlefield and FD, although I did do some testing on sharply angled omegas (such as Omega Arena Ferox) as well, walled Omegas were ignored simply because the stage spike trajectory would have been the same in all situations.

First and foremost, (although I have not explicitly confirmed this, I believe it to be reasonable) the stage spikes which result from either a forwards or backwards kick are techable (the forward kick was really the only one up for debate as untechable IMO because of it's slightly (yet still notably) higher hitlag than the back kick, and since I don't believe the Untechable theory to be disproven, when hitlag overlaps with recoil lag (the time a character spends "stuck" to the wall when they are bouncing off of it as a result of being hit into it), it is impossible to tech (credit goes to the Beefy Smash Doods for this discovery, their video explaining all of it is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8rpifNUEYo)).

While the above is true, I feel that the fact that Corrin can mix up the timing on when she decides to kick during the DL pin will help in preventing the stage spike from always being teched.

Now then, the important (IMO) technicalities concerning DL and the stage spike:

• A second DL cannot be used in the air if you choose to back kick and go further offstage (kind of obvious but I foresee this question being asked).
• The stage spike trajectory will depend on the stage's ledge design, some will spike horizontally and some will spike towards the bottom corner.
• I believe this stage spike to be possible on most characters, I did not test against the entire roster, however I did test against both the largest and smallest characters on the cast (, , ; , ). I found that Jigglypuff seems to be immune to this, and I consider this in large part to be due to both her floatiness and small size, floatiness and size being two significant factors in regards to the stage spike's effectiveness. There may exist more character exceptions in the middle range of the cast, but I feel like the results of this testing can be reasonably extrapolated to claim that it will work on every member of the cast save for Jigglypuff. This has yet to be proven, however.
• As mentioned, floatiness and hurtbox size are factors in the stage spike's effectiveness and consistenc. For example, I was able to consistently stage spike with either kick (in fact iirc it always worked on Dorf when pinned out of the ledge.), however, when testing with , the stage spike came less consistently. I attribute this to the fact that Bowser's hurtbox is slightly larger overall than Ganondorf's, so when the kick connected, in certain situations enough of his hurtbox registered as being "over the ledge" so that Bowser avoided the stage spike and simply flew through the air over it.
• An additional factor that I believe may be significant is the opponent's ability to SDI the pin. Presuming that pin SDI is possible, the opponent would be able to SDI upwards and/or towards Corrin in order to force his/her hurtbox over the ledge such that when Corrin performs one of the kicks the opponent avoids the stage spike. I believe this factor would be significant across the entire cast, in particular affecting those characters against whom the stage spike may not be very consistent.
• The forward kick's trajectory angle is slightly yet notably higher than that of the back kick, factoring in potential SDI I could see this making the forward kick possibly less consistent then back kick on characters who are not consistently stage spiked by the kicks.
• Due to the fact that Corrin flies out towards the blast zone after the backwards kick, she is able to follow up on the wallbounce with one of her aerials if the stage spike is sending the opponent far enough. This, granted, usually won't be necessary aside from style points but sometimes even Corrin's aerials all have very vertical trajectories save for Bair can be enough to seal the stock when the opponent is that close to the horizontal blast zone, % dependent this can also combo into Uair and kill off the top. These sorts of follow-ups only apply to stages on which a horizontal stage spike happens, however.
• On stages where the stage spike sends the opponent towards the bottom corner, Corrin can simply DJ back after the kick and cover the space with an aerial or air-stalled-DFS (no projectile charge, since Corrin doesn't stall during projectile charge, trying to charge the projectile will usually mean Corrin's death) bite, which may be effective considering the size of Corrin's hitboxes, even know her hitboxes usually have vertical trajectories. Such space coverage won't usually apply unless the opponent's character can actually come back from such a stage spike, otherwise it is best to simply come back to the stage and let the opponent fall to the blast zone.
• It should be noted that it is possible for Corrin to B-Reverse DFS immediately after the end of the backwards kick (which must have at most very little projectile/bite charge (none is usually better for the sake of consistency) in order for Corrin to have enough height afterwards to come back), what this allows Corrin to do is then throw out a Bair in the direction of the blast zone as she is coming back, while also using Bair's horizontal movement to move her closer to the ledge. Such a frame-risky option is something that I consider important to note simply because Bair is Corrin's only aerial that can reasonably kill off the side, and the positioning that Corrin is in when she performs the Bair for this sequence is actually naturally good considering that it is in the general area that the opponent will be when they are attempting to recover from this low.
• Some additional notes about the above sequence:

1. It is very frame-precise.
2. It is imperative when performing this Bair sequence that you jump immediately after DFS ends, when Corrin successfully makes it back she just barely reaches the ledge so you need all the height you can save.
3. Furthermore, I have found it to be a little easier/better to wait until the apex of the double jump (or until you are reasonably close to this point) before throwing out the Bair, the horizontal distance covered is similar to that covered if you were to throw the Bair out immediately after the start of the double jump and Corrin actually preserves some height if she waits until the top of the double jump since Bair actually pushes her down slightly as it pushes her forwards.
4. I would recommend using an Attack Stick and simply holding towards the stage throughout so that you can maximize the horizontal distance from the Bair while you are coming back since the input on the C-stick won't affect Corrin's aerial momentum.
5. When Corrin uses Dragon Ascent to come back at the end, she will be sitting at its maximum range, so be sure to tilt back to get maximum height.

That about covers my thoughts on the DL stage spike.

On to some other things:

As we all have seen, Corrin gets a notable amount of momentum shift from B-reversing DFS, what some may not be aware of is that this momentum shift is amplified a significant amount when Corrin aerially B-reverses DFS immediately after the end of a DL kick. Such a momentum shift is why Corrin is able to still come back to the stage after B-reversing DFS from the backwards ledge kick as mentioned in the Bair sequence above.

Some additional things to note:

• The stall associated with the DFS bite will essentially cancel all of the momentum gained in the B-reverse momentum shift, so charging the projetcile for longer will allow Corrin to travel further, charging it less will stop her earlier.
• This momentum shift is significant to the point that Corrin can DL forwards kick from the center of the top Battlefield platform, immediately B-Reverse DFS and land back on stage right next to the ledge. You can imagine how this affects her positioning when it is used out of a DL elsewhere (especially when you don't momentum cancel with a bite, i.e. let the projectile charge).

Now, not only does B-reversing have a significant effect when used in conjunction with DFS, but so also does simply performing turnaround DFS in the air (pivot like B-reverse without the momentum shift). In particular, due to the air-stall that the bite sequence has, Corrin can easily run off-stage, immediately turn-around DFS (no projectile charge), and she will be hovering right next to and directly covering the ledge with the bite (which attains full charge while keeping Corrin stalled, though she does slightly fall). This works due to the fact that the DFS bite cancels momentum, so Corrin doesn't proceed to fly towards the blast zone.

On the note of using bite-stalling with DFS to cover the ledge, Corrin can also cover the ledge out of a ledge drop double jump -> no-charge DFS projectile -> charged bite. This is particularly useful after Corrin has trumped the ledge if the opponent is forced to regrab and recovering low, since if timed well (and depending on the timing of the opponent's recovery in regards to returning to the ledge, among other factors such as U-B hitboxes, etc) it leads to fantastic damage and a potential stage spike. Corrin can also simply run off and bite-stall DFS while facing the blastzone to cover horizontal/higher-trajectory attempts at the ledge.

I will end these comments with some fun facts (not particularly practical (as I consider the above to potentially be but interesting IMO):

• Due to the fact that Corrin actually rises slightly in the initial frames of her Dair, she can SH dair and will actually land on Battlefield's lower platforms.
• I have found that the slight lift incurred from the default bite-stall (no projectile charge) is actually slightly higher if Corrin performs a "5-10%" or so charge on the bite (no projectile charge). The difference is hardly noticeable but it is a difference.
• Sometimes when Corrin pins the underside of a stage like Battlefield, the near-instantaneous positional shift she experiences when the pin registers is enough to cause her to snap to the ledge from abnormally long distances (outside of the usual magnet-hands range by a wide margin).

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This is all I have to say for now, I hope this research can be of some use.

I personally believe that Corrin will have a notable amount of movement options and mix-ups whenever she has platforms on which she can DL.

(Also it'd be amazing if Dragon Ascent could edge cancel but it can't )

Thank you for reading.

Thanks for the research and the trouble! I really believe that the evolving uses of DL will make it one of Corrin's most deadly tools.Well done!

Oh, I almost forgot, any IASA frames discovered?


EDIT: Does anyone feels Corrin's Counter Surge is a little...monstrous? I know it launches upwards so may kill early, but it kills hella early.
Salty people are saying it's OP.Not that I agree, I'm just worried about an impending nerf.