Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[OceloT42]

Better question:

Why would I Jab, like, ever. D-Tilt's frame 5, it's a combo starter untill kill-percents (including an apparent kill confirm into U-air, or frame trap situation at worse). You can technically also retreating N/F-air out of sheild, which leads into strings or *they're in the air again at the perfect angle*. It doesn't even kill as well, assuming you go for "The Gentleman". I tried it. Barely killed Rosalina at 140, at the edge of FD. Like, the only reason I Jab is to put up a quick hitbox (off of Jab 1 or 2) out there, to force a reaction. It's either that, or it's to get the ocassional Jab 1, 2 to D-Tilt (which works suprisingly often).

and muilti-hit looks like **** and you get nothing off of it, why bother.

Is jab 1,2 to dtilt actually usable?

 

[McGyverAC]

Better question:

Why would I Jab, like, ever. D-Tilt's frame 5, it's a combo starter untill kill-percents (including an apparent kill confirm into U-air, or frame trap situation at worse). You can technically also retreating N/F-air out of sheild, which leads into strings or *they're in the air again at the perfect angle*. It doesn't even kill as well, assuming you go for "The Gentleman". I tried it. Barely killed Rosalina at 140, at the edge of FD. Like, the only reason I Jab is to put up a quick hitbox (off of Jab 1 or 2) out there, to force a reaction. It's either that, or it's to get the ocassional Jab 1, 2 to D-Tilt (which works suprisingly often).

and muilti-hit looks like **** and you get nothing off of it, why bother.

The multi hit looks cool!

 

[Nah]

idk where else to put it so I'ma just post the link to @TimidKitsune129 's post in the CCI thread showing that Corrin too has item footstool combos into DL that kill.

have fun with that boys and girls

I have a question tho how do you do the DK matchup

I got wrecked by one yesterday. When I play it as Robin I simultaneously laugh at and feel bad for DK as he just struggles to do **** all but it's not fun when it's the other way around

 

[OceloT42]

Anytime you're feeling like you need a bit of a laugh,
1)Go to Gamefaqs Smash board.
2)Search Corrin
3)Read any "Corrin is op" thread
4)Feel good about yourself

 

[McGyverAC]

idk where else to put it so I'ma just post the link to @TimidKitsune129 's post in the CCI thread showing that Corrin too has item footstool combos into DL that kill.

have fun with that boys and girls

I have a question tho how do you do the DK matchup

I got wrecked by one yesterday. When I play it as Robin I simultaneously laugh at and feel bad for DK as he just struggles to do **** all but it's not fun when it's the other way around

You need only ask, and you shall receive (but it's the Corrin match-up version)

 

[Nah]

You need only ask, and you shall receive (but it's the Corrin match-up version)

oh, if I wasn't clear, I meant I need help for Corrin-DK not Robin-DK,

so yes please do

 

[McGyverAC]

Anytime you're feeling like you need a bit of a laugh,
1)Go to Gamefaqs Smash board.
2)Search Corrin
3)Read any "Corrin is op" thread
4)Feel good about yourself

You lied to me

 

[McGyverAC]

View attachment 120305 You lied to me

Never mind Fam, sorry

 

[McGyverAC]

OceloT42

 

[OceloT42]

OceloT42
View attachment 120308 View attachment 120309

Yup. And there's like a hundred threads just like this.

 

[McGyverAC]

Yup. And there's like a hundred threads just like this.

*Hysterical Laughter

 

[OceloT42]

*Hysterical Laughter

Look for any posts by some guy called Masterknight75, or just search "cheappin". According to him, pre patch Corrin is absurdly broken, and pre patch Bayonetta is balanced and fair.

 

[McGyverAC]

Look for any posts by some guy called Masterknight75, or just search "cheappin". According to him, pre patch Corrin is absurdly broken, and pre patch Bayonetta is balanced and fair.

........

 

[Nah]

So a couple of things:

1) I heard that Cosmos has beaten ESAM, and that ESAM now thinks that Corrin beats Pikachu. Can someone please link me vids for their set(s) so I can see?

2) Any tips for executing pivot Fsmash? I have trouble doing it and wanna be able to do it since Corrin pivot Fsmash seems pretty good. Would probably be easier with smash stick but I kinda have to use tilt stick.

 

[JayE]

So a couple of things:

1) I heard that Cosmos has beaten ESAM, and that ESAM now thinks that Corrin beats Pikachu. Can someone please link me vids for their set(s) so I can see?

2) Any tips for executing pivot Fsmash? I have trouble doing it and wanna be able to do it since Corrin pivot Fsmash seems pretty good. Would probably be easier with smash stick but I kinda have to use tilt stick.

Here's a recent set where Cosmos beat Esam and made him switch to Samus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXUIBZN439g
I use normally smash attacks on the c-stick, but for pivot smashes without smash c-stick, you have to press smash attack pretty strong and practice the timing, so you don't throw out a pivot tilt or do an accidental dash attack or something. Thats all I can really say about pivot F smashing unfortunately

 

[McGyverAC]

So a couple of things:

1) I heard that Cosmos has beaten ESAM, and that ESAM now thinks that Corrin beats Pikachu. Can someone please link me vids for their set(s) so I can see?

2) Any tips for executing pivot Fsmash? I have trouble doing it and wanna be able to do it since Corrin pivot Fsmash seems pretty good. Would probably be easier with smash stick but I kinda have to use tilt stick.

PP fsmash or the rear spear?
For PP, it's just a perfect pivot. dash in one direction, then almost immediately hit the stick in the opposite direction, but just barely. For the rear spear, run forward, hit the left stick opposite the direction you were just running, then hit the C stick in the same direction. It just takes timing to get it down. I've been using it for months and I still flub it sometimes.
For Esam vs Cosmos:
First set to 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_o2XhnYjXc
Second set to 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbq-fLDdTWc
*Note: This will take about 2 hours or so, though it's worth it.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

So a couple of things:

1) I heard that Cosmos has beaten ESAM, and that ESAM now thinks that Corrin beats Pikachu. Can someone please link me vids for their set(s) so I can see?

2) Any tips for executing pivot Fsmash? I have trouble doing it and wanna be able to do it since Corrin pivot Fsmash seems pretty good. Would probably be easier with smash stick but I kinda have to use tilt stick.

Thing is, most of ESAM's reasoning was "pikachu gimps corrin", and he, himself, has trouble pulling it off (or, people simply ought to start admitting our recovery is very good). Other that, Pikachu only really combos us okay-ishly at lower mid-percents, T-Jolts you can just Shield/F-air/N-air, we outrange significantly, we've better combos until later percents and our weight/kill-power differential...yeah.

And not only that, Frozen beat him pretty handily, as well. Look it up. On that tournament Cosmos beat him twice and he even reset GFs 1 against Ally and took him to Game 5 on GFs 2.


Also, Corrin is OP. I want to see how long it'll take people to realise...

 

[McGyverAC]

 

[JayE]

Thing is, most of ESAM's reasoning was "pikachu gimps corrin", and he, himself, has trouble pulling it off (or, people simply ought to start admitting our recovery is very good). Other that, Pikachu only really combos us okay-ishly at lower mid-percents, T-Jolts you can just Shield/F-air/N-air, we outrange significantly, we've better combos until later percents and our weight/kill-power differential...yeah.

And not only that, Frozen beat him pretty handily, as well. Look it up. On that tournament Cosmos beat him twice and he even reset GFs 1 against Ally and took him to Game 5 on GFs 2.


Also, Corrin is OP. I want to see how long it'll take people to realise...

lol Corrin is OP. I believe Corrin is really good but not overpowered.

 

[McGyverAC]

lol Corrin is OP. I believe Corrin is really good but not overpowered.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/73254866

 

[OceloT42]

lol Corrin is OP. I believe Corrin is really good but not overpowered.

Corrin is incredible, the only reason he/she isn't op is because Sakurai didn't want another horde pounding at his door

 

[JayE]

ugh. Never mind. I shouldn't even present my opinions. I keep making that mistake around other people who main different characters than me.

 

[McGyverAC]

ugh. Never mind. I shouldn't even present my opinions. I keep making that mistake around other people who main different characters than me.

The Corrin is OP thing was a joke, since people who play her have trouble against her think that's she's really OP, when she is in fact how you described her

 

[JayE]

The Corrin is OP thing was a joke, since people who play her have trouble against her think that's she's really OP, when she is in fact how you described her

I realize things like that are at least a little bit of a joke most of the time, but some jokes I just hear too much and they get redundant and old.

 

[McGyverAC]

I realize things like that are at least a little bit of a joke most of the time, but some jokes I just hear too much and they get redundant and old.

Where did you hear Corrin is OP gamefaqs thread?
Anyway, I can understand where you're coming from

 

[McGyverAC]

Who here would be interested in learning the fundamentals of juggling?

 

[JayE]

Where did you hear Corrin is OP gamefaqs thread?
Anyway, I can understand where you're coming from

lmao no, I've heard "this character is OP" all the time from other places. And don't use Gamefaqs at all, I'm just saying the joke gets old.

 

[Koiba]

Who here would be interested in learning the fundamentals of juggling?

May as well sign this rookie Corrin up :3

 

[Deleted member 189823]

wait, you thought I was joking?

 

[McGyverAC]

wait, you thought I was joking?

Where dafuq have you been?!

 

[McGyverAC]

May as well sign this rookie Corrin up :3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbd_1tQmM4E

 

[Nah]

wait, you thought I was joking?

I didn't think you were joking.

And I kind of disagree, the character is really not broken or OP or even top tier.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

How is Corrin not Top tier?

 

[Nah]

How is Corrin not Top tier?

Why is Corrin top tier?

 

[McGyverAC]

Why is Corrin top tier?

Powerful move set, good neutral, best juggling in game, great edge guarding, Amazing combos (some can even kill super early with platfroms) great MU spread, lack of popularity in tournaments, which results in 0 spread of Corrin's tricks and ways to handle MU. She's not OP, she's just a hidden boss like Yoshi. She just doesn't have a really good player base. (Yeah I said it. Get your sh_t together Corrin's)

 

[Deleted member 189823]

He goes even and even beats most other Top-tiers and only really loses to Fox & Sheik.

 

[McGyverAC]

He goes even and even beats most other Top-tiers and only really loses to Fox & Sheik.

Corrin only goes even if the player is good. If the player has an understanding of a long range and zoning match up, they can usually win against all the lower tier defensive and zoning characters that Corrin sometimes has a disadvantage against. A primary example being Luigi, who can wall you out with fairs and fireballs (mostly fireballs) which allows him to outzone Corrin. Corrin doesn't have a lot of zone breaking tools, due to her lack luster speed, so one would imagine she loses this match up, but if the player adapts, then they can work around the zone, which then makes the match up even, and in some cases, in Corrin's favor. Another example would be Samus. She can run away and charge and shoot projectiles all she wants, and unless we can get close to her, we lose the match up.
This odd MU thing comes from the fact that Corrin is a zoning character herself, and is very good at walling opponents out, but not so good at approaching in the neutral, though that to depends on individual player capacity. In other zoning and defensive MU, whether Corrin win's or loses is entirely up to the individual players abilities, since even among such a diverse cast of fighters, Corrin is particularly unique. It is for this reason that Corrin is likely considered lower on the tier list than she should be.

"Play against the character to understand its strengths, play the character to understand its weaknesses".

 

[Nah]

Usually when someone says an MU is even (or any ratio really) it's implied that the players are of roughly equal skill and match-up knowledge. MU knowledge is also a two-way street. Corrin can certainly improve their MU odds by figuring out the MU, but that also applies to the other character(s) as well. And I doubt that the playerbase at large has a super good grasp on how to best combat Corrin.

Zoners ironically struggle with themselves because they tend to lack the attributes that are good for dealing with zoners. I honestly think that the archetype of zoner is ultimately doomed to fail in this game really.

Now, I don't think that Corrin is a bad character, because they're not (note: "not bad"=/=top tier), it's just that I'm skeptical of claims that anyone is top tier without sufficient data to believe so. 9 months might seem like a long enough time to say for sure that yes, X character is indeed Y tier, but it's kind of not. When Roy first dropped, a lot of people believed he was high tier, but eventually everyone realized that he is certainly not high-tier level good. Opinions on Cloud initially ranged from barely mid tier to top 2. Bayonetta is different though because the character has garnered far more exposure in this time, has a larger high-level playerbase, and it's obvious that the combination of Witch Twist+ABK (Witch Time is just icing on the cake really) is absurd enough to warrant her a spot in top tier. Or to use a non-DLC example, it was not until recently that I felt could both say with some level of confidence and articulate well enough that Robin is indeed nothing more than a mid tier and is likely to not ever be more than a mid tier, and that character's been out for 2 years now. When I asked "why is Corrin top tier", I was kind of wanting something more in-depth and specific and not nebulous claims like "goes even with/beats everyone in top tier except these 2" or "[insert list of Corrin's strengths here] (simply listing a character's strengths is generally a poor argument, as you can make anyone look better than they are by doing so, even trash like Dorf or Jiggs). I'm also just highly skeptical of anyone in this game with overall poor mobility doing truly well.

tl;dr: I don't believe the claim that Corrin is top tier because I think we should have more information and meta development before we do make that claim.

 

[McGyverAC]

Usually when someone says an MU is even (or any ratio really) it's implied that the players are of roughly equal skill and match-up knowledge. MU knowledge is also a two-way street. Corrin can certainly improve their MU odds by figuring out the MU, but that also applies to the other character(s) as well. And I doubt that the playerbase at large has a super good grasp on how to best combat Corrin.

Zoners ironically struggle with themselves because they tend to lack the attributes that are good for dealing with zoners. I honestly think that the archetype of zoner is ultimately doomed to fail in this game really.

Now, I don't think that Corrin is a bad character, because they're not (note: "not bad"=/=top tier), it's just that I'm skeptical of claims that anyone is top tier without sufficient data to believe so. 9 months might seem like a long enough time to say for sure that yes, X character is indeed Y tier, but it's kind of not. When Roy first dropped, a lot of people believed he was high tier, but eventually everyone realized that he is certainly not high-tier level good. Opinions on Cloud initially ranged from barely mid tier to top 2. Bayonetta is different though because the character has garnered far more exposure in this time, has a larger high-level playerbase, and it's obvious that the combination of Witch Twist+ABK (Witch Time is just icing on the cake really) is absurd enough to warrant her a spot in top tier. Or to use a non-DLC example, it was not until recently that I felt could both say with some level of confidence and articulate well enough that Robin is indeed nothing more than a mid tier and is likely to not ever be more than a mid tier, and that character's been out for 2 years now. When I asked "why is Corrin top tier", I was kind of wanting something more in-depth and specific and not nebulous claims like "goes even with/beats everyone in top tier except these 2" or "[insert list of Corrin's strengths here] (simply listing a character's strengths is generally a poor argument, as you can make anyone look better than they are by doing so, even trash like Dorf or Jiggs). I'm also just highly skeptical of anyone in this game with overall poor mobility doing truly well.

tl;dr: I don't believe the claim that Corrin is top tier because I think we should have more information and meta development before we do make that claim.

Corrin, and zoners in general, are good at creating walls, that are virtually impassable. Now whether or not these characters do well depends on whether or not they're able to create the wall.
I would say that the concept now is that zoners beat boxers, boxers beat defensive(long range projectile heavy), and defensive beats zoners. Zoners beat boxers by zoning them out, and preventing them from getting in. Boxers close the gap between defensive and them, and defensive usually don't have good boxing options and are generally considered to be slow. Defensive beats zoners because they don't have to approach zoners, which nullifies the sobers concept of a wall.
Now, in a game as diverse as sm4sh, this won't always apply, as there are few just defensive and few just boxer.
In the current meta game, zoners are definitely good, but it heavily relies on the individuals ability to create a wall, and guess an opponents options to breach said wall. I would say zoners, are becoming far and few, being replaced by super defensive or super aggressive players.

To answer your question, Corrin is good because she has a lot of room in terms of play style, as wells as a lot of really good tools. She's not S tier, nor even top A tier. She's a hidden boss in the A tier, a top B tier that can sometimes be really really good. She can be compared to Yoshi, since one of the reasons both are so good is because there are so few players with the MU experience.

 

[OceloT42]

Much as I hate saying this, Corrin is high tier, probably highest of high tier, but she isn't top tier. Not unless someone can provide a solid compelling argument as to how she is better than those above her in the tier list.

On a side note, am I wrong in thinking that Corrin is the heaviest of the midweights? Sure feels that way...