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Huh, I guess that explains it then. I always the thought the 3DS version had some weird hiccups and oddities here and there.
I've had some problems with it, but its more unorthodox than anything. The thing is is that match up requires you to get in on dedede and stick to him and out frame data him. Which is contrary to our general corrin game plan of out ranging, and safely poking to open our opponent up to combos. Though you need to be careful cus dedede blows up mistakes with stupid dmg. Also back air is nice for out ranging DEDEDE in the air if you need to do some poking and can't get in safely. Really the hardest part of this Mu is killing dedede. Its very hard to kill him without a read with a high KGB move. And due to his heavy/fast fall nature our safe kill options like kill throws, and u-air don't kill til very high percents (150 u-air, 180 u throw). On the other hand we can combo him for days.
Yeah, you're right, it's just that his weight plus his recovery makes him really hard to kill...
well you can recover low for the most part. She has good enough vertical to recover from really low if you have double jump and up-b. Its same as for recovery from full hop d-air off stage.
He has basically no answer to Bair and IP. Just abuse those 2 moves then capitalize off of positional advantage because Dedede is fat.
Anything that makes them slide off without going airborne (their feet stay on ground) works.
...fully stale sour bair against a 0% Bowser.
He outranges us on a few moves, but Corrin's moves come out basically twice the speed of his, so it shouldn't be too difficult to beat him in clashes.
The animation is very slightly different. Look at the bottom of the wings. On 3DS there are little inwards curves, but on the Wii U version the wings are smoother. Also the "fingers" on Wii U version go out at different angles compared to the 3DS version. On Wii U, the lowest point of the wings goes past the butt, but on 3DS it stops at the hips. That part that curves upwards near her head curves upwards earlier on 3DS than on Wii U. Also the Wii U's wings appear slightly longer (relatively speaking) but I'm probably wrong about that. Regardless, I doubt any of this affects the hitboxes.The hitboxes for both versions are exactly the same and they also have the same animation/looks for both versions
View attachment 106063
Lavani
for this.
The only reliable way we can combo into dair is via footstool (low percent landing fair is an easy way to get this). I did some testing a while back to see if full charge DFS could be comboed into a dair near the ledge (for a potentially optimal shield break punish at mid percents) and i couldn't get it to work. Dair stopping all horizontal momentum works against us here. There might be some obscure percent ranges/terrible DI scenarios where something like landing nair/rising fair could be comboed into dair but there are usually better followups.
Curious, does that mean that fully stale sour bair won't even jab lock at 0%? I figured it might be the only thing in our moveset that might do it, along with stale dair landing hitbox, although neither is ever gonna happen in a real match.
Right.
That's because it has 26 frames of landing lag compared to TL's 40 and Greninja's 32. Corrin's dair is the least laggy divekick in the game, followed by G&W/Bayo at 28 frames.
Besides the airdodge baiting thing I tend to do it with bite reads, pin kicks, and Uthrow. Occasionally can catch someone's landing with Fsmash tipper.
My most common kill methods are Tipper Lunge and Fsmash, Lunge Kick, U/Dthrow (mostly Uthrow), U-air, and trump to Bair. I tend to use DFS to set up for Pins, Tippers, and RAR Bairs, so I don't get many bite kills outside of the rare Fair -> DFS. If I'm feeling cocky I'll go for the FH Dair edgeguard, but it's a little risky for my tastes. Also, lately I've been trying to implement the stage pin into kick stall to catch ledge snaps, but I still don't use it too often. If I had to pick one... I'd say Tipper Lunge. I use it at the ledge, off of DFS, offsage, reversed to catch rolls, etc. Its versatile and strong. Just my style.
That's simple, it's not used much because it's easy to bait out, its much to slow to be helpful in disadvantage state (frame 7), and it requires a hard read to land. It has good reward, but is unlikely to land vs good opponents. This is why you almost never see it used in high lvl play. It's ok to trying going for counter maybe once a set, but beyond that and edge guarding certain characters you probably should not be using it.
As it was said above, the move is about as good as any other counter (WT withstanding) in that it's a pretty bad option since it's so easy to see coming. I'll skip mentioning hard reads and offstage edgeguarding because that's obvious, and instead mention 2 things that are unique to this counter and rather relevant if you want to make the most of it. First off, it hits below the stage slightly. This is important because it lets you punish some characters UpB's like Cloud, Link, Ike, Kirby, Peach, ZZS, etc. that have trouble snapping to the ledge right away. Secondly, if the counter actually activates and DOESN'T hit your opponent (projectiles and large disjoints can cause this) than it's worth knowing that the intangibility lasts right up to the FAF, meaning if you buffer and choose the right options, the attack itself is virtually un-punishable.
Counter Surge should be treated like a hidden weapon, in which you must limit its use to around once per set.Once the opponent remembers you have it, they are much less likely to fall for it.
Actually, on that note - can anyone confirm whether or not CS will apply the slowdown effect to Ike after catching his Aether's sword toss? Witch Time does. If CS does, it might actually be the only counter that can't stop Aether, as Ike wouldn't reach the ledge before the counterattack comes out.
Yes, CS does apply slowdown to Aether.I discovered it in FG today.
One thing I like to go for against sheilds (besides grabs) are a B-reversed fully charged DFS as well as the full Bite. If you do it behind them, and the opponent has low enough traction, it deals massive sheild damage + pushes them too far away to get a good punish. It can even break sheilds if they aren't full enough
Seriously? How did you get it to work? I would love to be able to pull this off. Could end some stocks pretty easily in dubs.
Still needs testing to see what the actual kill power is. I had rage when I noted the opponent Mario got killed around that percent.
The best option against shields is patience. Position yourself at a comfortable position and punish them after they drop shield. The position is match up dependant but shouldn't change much.
