Now let's see if we can get some activity up here!
I've decided to do this thread to help us all improve at least a bit. We talk about one move I semi randomly select at a time and discuss literally everything we know about the move. I'm sure we will all learn something new or improve upon old knowledge. Stuff like followups, traps, mixups, tricks or whatever or just general uses. ANYTHING! We can't have too much information and everyone is allowed to say what they have to say, doesn't matter if you aren't very good, because we will correct you in case something is wrong. Let's have some discussion here!
I will later update OP with a spoiler tag for each move, containing the information of the move we have collected with our discussions. Frame data and such could also be included. I want a great database for GW and I believe we can do it. If you feel like it, give each move a rating from 1-9 (for the glory of judgement) so we can simply say how good each move generally is.
Any suggestions and stuff are welcome here, if this thread doesn't live up to it's expectations, I will be very sad
Let's start with something simple... Tilts.
Moves will be discussed in groups instead of individually. Thanks TC.
[collapse=Tilts]
Jab:
"Insert picture of hitbox here"
Frame data:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-3 Startup
• 4-6 Hitbox out
• 7-15 Cooldown
Jab flurry:
• 15-16 Hitbox out
• 17-22
• 23-24 Hitbox out
• 25-30
• 31-32 Hitbox out
• ... (hits every 7 frames)
Frame Summary
Duration: 15
Hits on frame: 4
Hitbox duration: 3
Cooldown: 9
Shieldstun: 1
Shield advantage: -10
Shield drop advantage: -3
Jab flurry:
Cooldown: 9
Hit Advantages:
+1: Diddy, Shiek, Metaknight, Fox, Falco, Wolf, C. Falcon, Squirtle
+2: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Ganon, Samus, ZSS, IC, Kirby, Olimar, Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Sonic
+3: Luigi, DK, Zelda, Toon Link, Pit, Ivysaur, Marth, Ness, G&W, Snake
+4: Dedede, Jigglypuff
"insert picture of hitbox here"
Framedata:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-12 Startup
• 13-21 Hitbox out
• 22-29 Cooldown
Frame Summary:
Duration: 29
Hits on frame: 13
Hitbox duration: 9
Cooldown: 8
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -14
Shield drop advantage: -7
"insert picture of hitbox here"
Framedata:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-9 Startup
• 10-15 Hitbox out
• 16-35 Cooldown
Frame Summary:
Duration: 35
Hits on frame: 10
Hitbox duration: 6
Cooldown: 20
Shield stun: 4
Shield advantage: -24
Shield drop advantage: -17
"insert picture of hitbox here"
Framedata:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-15 Hitbox out
• 16-25 Cooldown
Frame Summary:
Duration: 25
Hits on frame: 6
Hitbox duration: 10
Cooldown: 10
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -17
Shield drop advantage: -10
I used the framedata from Mr Escalators thread so credit to him. Though I think the thread is quite old and though I trust it, I'd still like to recheck it. I just don't know how to. Anyone?
Also I would like to use this kind of a format for this as you can see from the collapse. What do you think?
I've decided to do this thread to help us all improve at least a bit. We talk about one move I semi randomly select at a time and discuss literally everything we know about the move. I'm sure we will all learn something new or improve upon old knowledge. Stuff like followups, traps, mixups, tricks or whatever or just general uses. ANYTHING! We can't have too much information and everyone is allowed to say what they have to say, doesn't matter if you aren't very good, because we will correct you in case something is wrong. Let's have some discussion here!
I will later update OP with a spoiler tag for each move, containing the information of the move we have collected with our discussions. Frame data and such could also be included. I want a great database for GW and I believe we can do it. If you feel like it, give each move a rating from 1-9 (for the glory of judgement) so we can simply say how good each move generally is.
Any suggestions and stuff are welcome here, if this thread doesn't live up to it's expectations, I will be very sad
Let's start with something simple... Tilts.
Moves will be discussed in groups instead of individually. Thanks TC.
[collapse=Tilts]
Jab:
"Insert picture of hitbox here"
Frame data:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-3 Startup
• 4-6 Hitbox out
• 7-15 Cooldown
Jab flurry:
• 15-16 Hitbox out
• 17-22
• 23-24 Hitbox out
• 25-30
• 31-32 Hitbox out
• ... (hits every 7 frames)
Frame Summary
Duration: 15
Hits on frame: 4
Hitbox duration: 3
Cooldown: 9
Shieldstun: 1
Shield advantage: -10
Shield drop advantage: -3
Jab flurry:
Cooldown: 9
Hit Advantages:
+1: Diddy, Shiek, Metaknight, Fox, Falco, Wolf, C. Falcon, Squirtle
+2: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Ganon, Samus, ZSS, IC, Kirby, Olimar, Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Sonic
+3: Luigi, DK, Zelda, Toon Link, Pit, Ivysaur, Marth, Ness, G&W, Snake
+4: Dedede, Jigglypuff
Utilt:This move is great when you need something fast. It's nice to have at least one option for a quick attack to throw out at times, disrupting most things the opponent might try to do. I use this move as an occasional follow-up to dthrow, though be cautioned that it's easily escapable. Another great use is to randomly throw it out there for some damage. You can continue to hold it if they stay in the pump or let them go.
"insert picture of hitbox here"
Framedata:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-12 Startup
• 13-21 Hitbox out
• 22-29 Cooldown
Frame Summary:
Duration: 29
Hits on frame: 13
Hitbox duration: 9
Cooldown: 8
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -14
Shield drop advantage: -7
Ftilt:I rarely use this move. It might be because of personal reasons or that I think it's just too risky. The startup is miserable and the follow up isn't anything more impressive then simply short-hop nair off the ground. Idk. I could see arguments for/against use this. I recall Vinnie loved using this.
"insert picture of hitbox here"
Framedata:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-9 Startup
• 10-15 Hitbox out
• 16-35 Cooldown
Frame Summary:
Duration: 35
Hits on frame: 10
Hitbox duration: 6
Cooldown: 20
Shield stun: 4
Shield advantage: -24
Shield drop advantage: -17
Dtilt:There are two important things to note about this move. The ending lag is horrendous and the startup time (hits on frame 10) is shorter than any of your smashes (hits on 15-18). Because of the first, I would recommend against using this move. Fsmash/Dsmash are much safer options. The short startup time is the only reason I'd consider using this. When you need something to come out sooner than an Fsmash/Dsmash, use Ftilt. It takes some understanding, and a great deal of practice missing with the smashes, to realize when the tilt will hit. Again, I use this rarely.
"insert picture of hitbox here"
Framedata:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-15 Hitbox out
• 16-25 Cooldown
Frame Summary:
Duration: 25
Hits on frame: 6
Hitbox duration: 10
Cooldown: 10
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -17
Shield drop advantage: -10
[/collapse]Easily the best attack out of the four list. This move not only offers us an infinite (use against walls) but it's a great zoning tool with high priority. We all know how great our bair is right? Super hard to beat. Well, dtilt does the trick. It's that good. A well time dtilt can put a halt to most moves in the game as well as many projectiles (like against TL). If you want to test the power of dtilt, try playing a match where you main focus is to use dtilt more than any other move combined. Spam the crap out of it!
I used the framedata from Mr Escalators thread so credit to him. Though I think the thread is quite old and though I trust it, I'd still like to recheck it. I just don't know how to. Anyone?
Also I would like to use this kind of a format for this as you can see from the collapse. What do you think?