Game & Watch Moveset Discussion [Tilts]

[Soda&watch]

The frame data says 16-25 but it does seem more like 10.

 

[Gardex]

16-25 as in the 16th frame to the 25th frame B)

 

[-LzR-]

Well if you spam Dtilt it's at least 16 frames because of the startup. So there is a 16 frame hole between each Dtilt, making it a quite crappy move to spam. Our best ground move and not even that is very safe.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Yeah spamming Down-Tilt while the opponent is in a neutral position is "lol".

 

[Soda&watch]

Thanks for clearing that up. Besides posting strings of attacks that use a tilt that we're talking about, I think tilts are pretty much covered.

 

[-LzR-]

Could someone get me pictures of GWs hitboxes? At least his tilts. I don't know how to do this myself and I'd like them animated. Still pictures don't really catch the real hitboxes imo and we need good pictures for the OP.
Edit: Oh and I'd count Jab as a tilt as well. It's technically a "neutral tilt" so please mention that as well.
Edit2: I added a rouch structure on the OP for tilts. I am planning to use a similar thing for the rest of the moves as well. Now then, I have some problems...
1.What category does Dash Attack belong to?
2.How we can we gather additional frame data?
3.We need a cool pic for the OP. Because all awesome threads need an awesome pic. Anyone willing to find/make us one?

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Frame data thread has all the numbers.

I can make gifs of all the moves, but it might take some time. I know where a video is that shows all the hitboxes, but separating it into individual gifs is where I don't know about it.

EDIT: We can also wait for Toomai to do the GnW hitboxes, but that could be a loooong time.

 

[-LzR-]

We cannot afford to wait. If you can make smooth gifs from the video, do it. I think they should be played in real speed as well. I would appreciate if you did that. So far, only tilts are needed so you can only do those for now.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Yeah, but between work and school, my time is cut a bit short. I'll do what I can, but I can't expect them to be done before Monday night.

 

[-LzR-]

It's not like anything is going to happen any time soon so there is no need to hurry.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I'll work on it when I get the chance. I'm new to a lot of this, but it'll speed up as I get more experienced.

 

[-LzR-]

So then, what about the jab? I think it's a pretty crappy jab, but it does it job just fine. The multihitting part is absolute crap and you will get punished hard for using it. Some characters seem to be able to just hit you out of the jab too. But I really like to use it to interrupt things. Like I nair into someones shield and I am kinda close, so they might attempt to grab me or punish some other way, so I quickly throw a jab after landing, usually comboing into a grab. This also seems to be pretty useful against Olimar.

 

[-LzR-]

Shameless bump. Come on guys, we can do this
Prove the GWs aren't dead yet...

 

[Revolution6 aka alterego]

Turning from a frame 4 to a frame 7 jab is pretty crappy. But I like it cus usually I can get a good about 10 damage or so before the opponent can do something and I up B immediately after about a cycle of 5.

Edit:I believe jab/ grab is guarrentied on olimar. And I believe on gnw also
Edit 2: when I said cycle. I included jab 1

 

[-LzR-]

The instant you jab them your opponent can do anything. Against many characters you actually have a frame disadvantage for the first jab only. The 2nd jab onwards you get punished. When I try to use the rapid jab I usually get punished after the 3rd hit.

 

[Revolution6 aka alterego]

I guess it's DI dependant.I feel Jab should be DI'd straight up(feel free to correct me). Quite a few people have been DI'ing down againts me cus they think they can punish me hard cuz i'm in multi jab animation. then I up b and go unpunished

On a seporate note: I like jab dtilt

 

[-LzR-]

DI doesn't matter much. If they have a reasonably fast aerial they just have to input it and you can't do anything about it. Our jab lacks hitstun.

 

[Gardex]

I like doing the jab flurry against Falco. It works if you mix it up because his forward reach is terrible in the air, so he has to get out and down on the ground first.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah but the problem is how dangerous it is to even jab Falco because of his own jab.

 

[Gardex]

Indeed, but if you are in a situation where the jab connects, you might as well go all the way.

... or try the jab > footstool lag > dair > usmash/nair for extra stylepoints(and possibly a KO)

 

[-LzR-]

Isn't Falco able to simply spam his own jab when you jab to ruin all options except shieldgrab? From my experience Falco can just jab as he will have the frame advantage to do so.

 

[Gardex]

Not if you catch him while he's in the air.

Also, you're not always prepared for everything. Maybe the player simply wasn't expecting a jab and inputs too late?

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, but you must still be aware that Falco will beat the situation if he understands his options. I get beat in these things so often I am very careful about jabbing. This kinda hurts my GW as I am also aware in every single MU where jab could make a huge difference. I think a single jab is really really useful after baiting the opponent to shieldgrab or punish our "misspaced" aerial only to get jab -> grab -> dthrow -> killed.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I have all the moves separated into videos. Now I just need to convert them into gifs

 

[-LzR-]

All right, nice to have something happen to this thread as well.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I just finished all the tilts (and jab)

Do you want me to post the album here?

 

[-LzR-]

You should like PM me all the pics if you have them in like uploaded format so they would actually show up here.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I like to call F-tilt the gentlemen

I throw it out and it's awful, fresh it's kind of cute.

#pointless #probably not on topic #I<3G&W

 

[Safaridor]

I like U-tilt as it works a bit similarly as sheik's f-tilt. At low percentages it locks the opponent in a chain of itself, and when it gets enough for them to DI, it is quite easy to short hop nair, and if they still do not DI away from above you, you can start a simple juggle. While there is better options, if you can land it, it allows for an easy damage with a nice set up for a juggle.

I also found this video after a little searching. It shows the hitboxes of the majority of game and watch moves, but I have no time atm to snip out the hitboxes manually. Though I might do so in a couple days.

 

[UTDZac]

I wanted to give a quick summary about how I feel on each of the four moves discussed so far.

Jab
This move is great when you need something fast. It's nice to have at least one option for a quick attack to throw out at times, disrupting most things the opponent might try to do. I use this move as an occasional follow-up to dthrow, though be cautioned that it's easily escapable. Another great use is to randomly throw it out there for some damage. You can continue to hold it if they stay in the pump or let them go.

U-tilt
I rarely use this move. It might be because of personal reasons or that I think it's just too risky. The startup is miserable and the follow up isn't anything more impressive then simply short-hop nair off the ground. Idk. I could see arguments for/against use this. I recall Vinnie loved using this.

F-tilt
There are two important things to note about this move. The ending lag is horrendous and the startup time (hits on frame 10) is shorter than any of your smashes (hits on 15-18). Because of the first, I would recommend against using this move. Fsmash/Dsmash are much safer options. The short startup time is the only reason I'd consider using this. When you need something to come out sooner than an Fsmash/Dsmash, use Ftilt. It takes some understanding, and a great deal of practice missing with the smashes, to realize when the tilt will hit. Again, I use this rarely.

D-tilt
Easily the best attack out of the four list. This move not only offers us an infinite (use against walls) but it's a great zoning tool with high priority. We all know how great our bair is right? Super hard to beat. Well, dtilt does the trick. It's that good. A well time dtilt can put a halt to most moves in the game as well as many projectiles (like against TL). If you want to test the power of dtilt, try playing a match where you main focus is to use dtilt more than any other move combined. Spam the crap out of it!

 

[-LzR-]

Thank you guys for reviving this thread. I was sure it was a goner already.
Zac, your post is so far the best in the thread, it was very helpful.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I also found this video after a little searching. It shows the hitboxes of the majority of game and watch moves, but I have no time atm to snip out the hitboxes manually. Though I might do so in a couple days.

I already did this, it's on my youtube channel. LzR told me that he's prefer one that was on zoom instead, but I have yet to find a way to do that.

 

[-LzR-]

Why can't you zoom them? Like the training modes zoom mode?

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I have no method of displaying the hitboxes without going frame by frame and doing a comparative hitbox creation (would take months, if even that quickly)

 

[Safaridor]

If you wanted to collaborate, I was planning on going through the video and snipping out each individual hitbox when you show it. I will be able to start in two days as I have a big paper due then. After that is done, I will post a link to a collection of the images.
I don't know if people want it highlighted in a different way then in the video, and will need to work with someone if they are not up to standard.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

In your .gif maker you should be able to crop the image? You could just take the video into a video editor and crop it down yourself, then make the .gif.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

http://gifsoup.com/account/daniel7001/ - All the gifs here. Somethings up with the site and it's only displaying 10 at a time though.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb8IFI1czau0I8pL8GAo1hvAw2qcpQDni - All the moves separated if anyone wants to crop them. My desktop's motherboard crapped out so I can't do any editing for the time being.

 

[-LzR-]

stuff

Hey I added that stuff of your in the OP. I'll look at more stuff later to add, but for now that's great stuff.

 

[Sar]

Do we wont to move on to something else? Maybe smashes?

 

[Sar]

Is anyone else interested in trying to revive this?