Game and Watch Matchup Export: Ice Climbers

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

But what else can we really do?

 

[Damittom]

Work on our spacing. Thats the only way we can win. ICs Grab range sucks but if we can space our moves perfectly and punish their mistakes we can possibly win

 

[Gardex]

It doesn't seem worth the risk at all though, what if you don't perfectly space it?

Just saying the risk:reward ratio seems bad.

Who said anything about spacing perfectly?

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

What are some stages to avoid? And how good is PS1 for us?

 

[-LzR-]

The thing with Icies here is that there are 2 of them. That means there is also extended shieldhitlag and everything. It gives Icies a much bigger window to grab between hitboxes or ISSDI towards you. Thanks to this bair is really really risky on shield even when well spaced.

 

[Dexident]

So what I'm taking away from this thread is that if I ever encounter IC's in a tourney I should:

up-b them about 40 times,

and then use b-air's landing hitbox for the KO?

 

[SFA Smiley]

So what I'm taking away from this thread is that if I ever encounter IC's in a tourney I should:

up-b them about 40 times,

and then use b-air's landing hitbox for the KO?

Bair's landing hitbox?! that's preposterous.



Up-B them until they die.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I think he's trying to say use full-hop fair so that they can't ISSDI you, and then UpB away.

 

[-LzR-]

You must edgeguard ICs. G&W will **** them offstage. When ICs are recovering low, use dair. This will hit Popo out of their upB and Nana is stuck on the ledge and they die.

 

[Dexident]

Actually I was playing against a marth and losing awfully so I decided to just up-b them repeatedly and do nothing else.

It worked surprisingly well until I got bored and decided to try using another move, at which point I started getting ***** again.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

How do you get them to this position? I know we **** on them offstage, but how can we get them there if they beat us so easily onstage?

 

[-LzR-]

That is the problem. We can't without taking huge risks. Perhaps Dtilt, but watch out or you get grabbed.
Feels Batman...

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Is dtilt safe to use against a close Ice Climber? I think they can dash grab after the hitbox, but can we UpB before they grab us?

 

[-LzR-]

If well spaced I am sure upB is fast enough. There is just the problem that even if they powershield that thing just once, you are done for.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

But that's the same for like.. everything of ours, except maybe a well spaced bair/fair or an uair when they are on a platform above.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah but bair can be easily reacted to and you are stuck to it for quite a while. If ICs are really good at it, bair is almost always unsafe.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

+2 or +3 in ICs favor.

Grab is stupid, we can SDI through your bair and grab you. I'm pretty sure we can uair through your dair, or at least space horizontally so your dair misses. We can camp you better than vice-versa, and we just spin and you can't do anything.

#ohgodwhywouldyoueverplaythis

 

[-LzR-]

Esam I'm pretty sure ICs uair can beat dair directly. Whenever I play the MU, I try to directly below him to beat it. If I try to hit him from the side, key beats it.
This is G&W worst MU.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

What move can we do against a shielding ICs? Just fullhop fair?

 

[-LzR-]

We shouldn't really do anything. Just wait for them to do something else. They can't shield forever and they can't do any quick and long ranged stuff out of a shield.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I mean against an IC who just sits and waits for us to come to them. How can we approach?

And stages to avoid in this MU?

 

[-LzR-]

Well bait the shield then. They have to release it eventually. Other than that you are simply ****ed.

 

[TheSaintKai]

A PERFECTLY spaced bair can't be grabbed. I'm nearly certain of it.

But misspace it once and gg.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Well, not gg but say bye-bye to a stock.

One thing we have going here is how easily we can kill nana if they become separated.

 

[-LzR-]

That is true for every single damn character in the game. Every single character can kill Nana without trouble if they are separated, so it doesn't count as an advantage. What matters is how easily and safely the character can separate them.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Well yes, but I was facing an IC player and I killed Nana at 30%. That seems pretty useful, and i think I separated with a bair while they were in the air trying to uair juggle.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, but as I said, every character can do that. It's all about the separating and G&W can't do that without taking huge risks.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

G&W can hardly do anything without taking huge risks.

 

[-LzR-]

Risks that take your entire stock if you make a slight mistake?
I don't find G&W to be an unsafe character. With good spacing he doesn't need to overcommit.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Against ICs, there is only so much we can do. If we get them in the air, I believe nair can separate.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah, but remember the if part. We don't have a grab at all in this MU which hurts us a lot and there isn't much we can do about their shield because of that.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

True. If we get them above, we can beat them, but the problem is getting them there.

 

[Damittom]

With good spacing he doesn't need to overcommit.

THIS

is so important.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Based on everything said, this is a -3, but is it closer to -2 or -4?

And stages to avoid?

 

[SFA Smiley]

-4

Stages to avoid are Rainbow cruise, Brinstar, and this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrsZaGO8HOc

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

-4

Stages to avoid are Rainbow cruise, Brinstar, and this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrsZaGO8HOc

Seems legit.