G&W vs. G&W

[Mr. Grey]

I cant find this in the forum (its problably somewhere but I havent found it)

But just in case,

I need some advice on fighting ANOTHER game and watch with g&w.

I rarely run into other g&w mains, and I tried it the other day, it was awkward.

only thing I could see was that a wall of bacon worked pretty well when the other g&w was off stage, I won the match cause he made stupid mistakes, but just in case I run into another g&w.

Does anyone have some advice?

ground? air? edge camping?

 

[VaJaJ]

lemme tell u how this matchup works...

-wait for him to turtle first then counter turtle him
-try to get grabs cuz u can d-smash him a lot and his roll is slow, even if he techs it u can still tech chase
-up air his down air attempts then up b him
-if he approaches u with turtle run towards him...shield then punish
-any stage with platforms is good for nairing him cuz he's light and can't take dmg
-he G&W dies reeeeealy early from smash attacks.... like 75% it's possible to kill him

as long as u follow these tips and play smart you will have no problem

 

[A2ZOMG]

This matchup is extremely dumb. Whoever moves first gets punished. You only have 4 viable attacks. B-air, Up-B, D-air, and F-air. The last one is your only KO move in this matchup.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

What?
Uair and Dthrow-> Dsmash are VERY good in this matchup. For example, if they tech only slightly late, they get hit by dsmash during the tech roll.

but yeah, just outspace them. Dairing is, in general, something you shouldnt do in the ditto too much. It's an easy thing to abuse if they know how to play the ditto.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What?
Uair and Dthrow-> Dsmash are VERY good in this matchup. For example, if they tech only slightly late, they get hit by dsmash during the tech roll.

G&W can't grab himself in this matchup. I prefer D-throw F-smash if they don't tech (assuming I can even get a grab) because it KOs earlier.

but yeah, just outspace them. Dairing is, in general, something you shouldnt do in the ditto too much. It's an easy thing to abuse if they know how to play the ditto.

D-air is one of your only other options whenever they misspace.

But anyhow, this is the dumbest matchup in the game. Seriously, if they aren't doing anything ridiculously stupid, you only have four viable attacks.

 

[UTDZac]

I was actually going to make a matchup thread for the ditto. Sure it's unlikely to happen, but I still think it's important to know what to do.

I'll make the thread eventually.

 

[Hylian]

This matchup is extremely dumb. Whoever moves first gets punished. You only have 4 viable attacks. B-air, Up-B, D-air, and F-air. The last one is your only KO move in this matchup.

Um...what?

Sorry, but that just isn't true. What does dair even do and why do you have it in over nair? Both uair and nair beat dair. Dair is only useful for edgeguarding and using it after you sdi out of turtle. Nair is used way more often, or should be at least. You didn't even mention Dtilt, which also incredibly useful.

This match-ups all about baiting. It's usually a stalemate as far as the spacing war goes. Landing grabs often can put you in a great position most of the time. Work for positional advantage constantly. Always make sure you are either under them or they have less stage behind them then you do. Both of you are going to be throwing walls out constantly, so look for patterns constantly. Dairs are easy to bait with uair so just do that and beat it with nair. Force them into fullhops by punishing sh bairs well and then start abusing nair.

This match-up isn't nearly as stupid as some other dittos, people just don't like to put the effort into thinking against someone who has the exact same options as you. I destroy most GW's in dittos lol.

 

[Mr. Grey]

So if I understand correctly:

Counter his Dair with Uair and Nair,
Counter his Bair with Shieldgrabs,
D smash and F smash when the tech roll,
Try to stay under him, for up B's I suppose,
Look for patterns and openings,
push him off the stage,


I guess Dtilt can be used to counter Bair if hes too far to grab...

I just have one more question then,



I am a fan of using of bacon and when I feel its safe to use, judgement,
Are these pointless in this matchup?

I was using bacon to kick in a little extra damage off the level cause I figured I cant stop up B

Thanks for the feed back

 

[fraudster111]

I think up b counters dair O.o

 

[NatP]

Personally, this is my worst matchup in the whole freaking game. I mean it, I'd rather play a professional ic's with ganon or DDD with DK than play this. And hum on this matchup, I just... Spam aerials and hope that I can get a combo going. :/

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sorry, but that just isn't true. What does dair even do and why do you have it in over nair? Both uair and nair beat dair. Dair is only useful for edgeguarding and using it after you sdi out of turtle. Nair is used way more often, or should be at least. You didn't even mention Dtilt, which also incredibly useful.

N-air and D-tilt aren't viable when he's spacing B-air, the former only being viable when he's standing on a platform. D-air at least is able to punish some misspaces since it completely avoids G&W's typical spacing strategies, and D-air usually TRADES with N-air. U-air is alright although doesn't really have much purpose as there really isn't much problem with stale moves in this matchup when F-air gets him at like 90%. Up-B is almost always better than U-air if he attacks, as the invul frames guarantee it will beat whatever he does while coming down.

D-air is more viable than most of G&W's other attacks as I was saying simply because it can be used in a position that avoids most of his spacing game. And edgeguarding with it like you said, which is in fact extremely useful.

This match-up isn't nearly as stupid as some other dittos, people just don't like to put the effort into thinking against someone who has the exact same options as you. I destroy most GW's in dittos lol.

In terms of viable options, it's pretty ridiculously stupid. G&W shuts down his entire spacing game with his own B-air when it's spaced properly.

I guess probably the few dittos that are more stupid are DDD, Falco, and Sheik dittos...which doesn't mean much at all.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Gotta go with what A2Z says. When the two G&W's know what they're doing, the match can just get dumb. I thank god me and NoJ don't run into eachother much.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Siding with Hylian; this matchup is hardly annoying to play out, even when both know exactly how it goes. It gets really prediction and spacing based which, all in all, is pretty fun. Snake is easily a less fun matchup, possibly Diddy as well, and G&W v G&W isn't even the lamest ditto. Stuff like Dedede I would imagine to be worse.

 

[Lord Chair]

So if I understand correctly:

Counter his Bair with Shieldgrabs,

Thanks for the feed back

Ahaha that's funny.

 

[Hylian]

N-air and D-tilt aren't viable when he's spacing B-air, the former only being viable when he's standing on a platform. D-air at least is able to punish some misspaces since it completely avoids G&W's typical spacing strategies, and D-air usually TRADES with N-air. U-air is alright although doesn't really have much purpose as there really isn't much problem with stale moves in this matchup when F-air gets him at like 90%. Up-B is almost always better than U-air if he attacks, as the invul frames guarantee it will beat whatever he does while coming down.

D-air is more viable than most of G&W's other attacks as I was saying simply because it can be used in a position that avoids most of his spacing game. And edgeguarding with it like you said, which is in fact extremely useful.

In terms of viable options, it's pretty ridiculously stupid. G&W shuts down his entire spacing game with his own B-air when it's spaced properly.

I guess probably the few dittos that are more stupid are DDD, Falco, and Sheik dittos...which doesn't mean much at all.

I don't understand how you can possibly keep stating incorrect facts over and over and over. Do you want people to lose? Jesus. Dair will get you hardcore punished in this match-up, and no it doesn't trade with nair, nair beats it if you have any concept of spacing at all. In fact I've NEVER seen dair trade with nair and I've played a ****load of GW dittos with people from all over the US. What are you talking about?

And up-b is not always better. Uair is like gws best ****ing move lmao. You just need to use it to force them into a bad position. And nair beats everything gw has when used from below up-b only has iframes at what..6-13? You will be hit out of it by dair if they are high up, and if they are closer you might as well just nair though I doubt any good gw is just going to dair at you from close range because that's a horrible idea.

What GW's have you played A2?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've played Princess Aura, InsomniaK, Oki, Gishnak, and Agent Paper irl. I actually beat Aura in a money match, if it means anything.

Most of the time when you U-air, all G&W needs to do to avoid followups is go to the ledge. He's so lightweight that he gets sent too far away for you to easily follow up after that. Yes, G&W's U-air is an amazing move, but it's pretty pointless in G&W dittos since it doesn't give you any easy followups, and doesn't deal damage. Furthermore, timing G&W's Up-B is not hard at all if he D-airs when he comes from above. It's easier than powershielding most projectiles, and if he's using it to punish spacing in close range, Up-B has a better chance of stopping it than N-air due to coming out 6-7 frames faster, not to mention Up-B has actual setups into stuff.

D-air DOESN'T get punished all the time like you suggest it does. It can punish spacing mistakes he does on the ground (or poorly spaced B-airs in general), and it comes out faster than he can N-air if you use it for that. You also forget that D-air is a fairly safe crossup on block. It's use lies in edgeguarding and punishing from certain angles. If you're going to punish from a different angle, Up-B or B-air usually are the safer choices. It's one of few things G&W can do to mix it up when being rushed down in the ditto since he has so few options for countering his B-air directly.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

...

Uair is AMAZING in this matchup. Jesus, I never thought I would see the day where someone would hardly use Uair in this ditto.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The only thing U-air does in this matchup is be gay. It's nice if you're super conservative, but there isn't much point when his descent can be punished in different ways. His fall speed is pretty slow as it is, and his movement is pretty high. In terms of character specific physics, you benefit less from U-airing him in particular.

I try to use all of G&W's moves, but you only have a few moves that actually get you any results.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

...and Uair is one of them. If you're going to be using a select few moves most of the time, I sure as hell would want one of those to be the move best suited for REFRESHING the other select moves. Not to mention it cleans up Dair usage. Uair >>>> Dair in this matchup.

 

[A2ZOMG]

...and Uair is one of them. If you're going to be using a select few moves most of the time, I sure as hell would want one of those to be the move best suited for REFRESHING the other select moves. Not to mention it cleans up Dair usage. Uair >>>> Dair in this matchup.

Yeah, true, but is it really the best option?

Up-B actually lets you do damage however and pretty much is just as easy to land, and has a few combo setups.

Refreshing moves is cool if you somehow started staling F-air, which really shouldn't be that much of an issue vs G&W in the first place due to the raw power of F-air anyway and G&W's light weight.

Remind me why U-air is the best option at anything in this matchup. The way I see it, it's only better if you're not good at calling out air dodges.

 

[cemo]

I know the first hitbox of the nair flat out beats the dair, not too sure about the later ones.
And I thought the d-tilt outspaced the short hopped bair? They could've just been committing too much on it, I guess. It's not really a matchup I ever played often.

I think you should play this matchup by taking turns hitting eachother with the judgement hammer.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I think you should play this matchup by taking turns hitting eachother with the judgement hammer.

I second this.

 

[Mr. Grey]

I actually won a match with another G&W like that, he said it was just luck, but I say

The number 9 knew who the better man was.

 

[Hylian]

I've played Princess Aura, InsomniaK, Oki, Gishnak, and Agent Paper irl. I actually beat Aura in a money match, if it means anything.

So you haven't played any of the top gws lol. Were you at genesis? Did you see me play Leepuff? I've played literally every top GW at some point. The only time I've ever lost a ditto in tournament or MM is once against DMG a long time ago, and the last time I played him was FS5 in GW dittos in tournament and I won. I know what I'm talking about.

Most of the time when you U-air, all G&W needs to do to avoid followups is go to the ledge.

Not true at all. That just makes it easier to hit him.

He's so lightweight that he gets sent too far away for you to easily follow up after that.

Huh? Being sent further makes it easier to follow up. Not directly, but you always have time to uair him again. If he AD's its a free up B. If he dairs it's a free nair.

Yes, G&W's U-air is an amazing move, but it's pretty pointless in G&W dittos since it doesn't give you any easy followups, and doesn't deal damage.

... Absurd.

Furthermore, timing G&W's Up-B is not hard at all if he D-airs when he comes from above. It's easier than powershielding most projectiles, and if he's using it to punish spacing in close range, Up-B has a better chance of stopping it than N-air due to coming out 6-7 frames faster, not to mention Up-B has actual setups into stuff.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa.

1. Why would you up-b when it only does a few % when you can EASILY nair which beats dair does more damage and has more followups?

2. If you miss up-b or they bait you into it you just put yourself into a bad position.

3. If he's using dair in close range you can do whatever the **** you want to him. That move is laggy.

4. The last sentence makes absolutely no sense. You are suggesting up-b will stop it better because you won't be able to react fast enough to use nair? What does up-b coming out faster have anything to do with stopping an aireal from above? What happens when they do it from higher then slowfall. You get hit that's what. You also just said up-b sets you up for stuff while nair doesn't? Got that kind of backwards.

D-air DOESN'T get punished all the time like you suggest it does. It can punish spacing mistakes he does on the ground (or poorly spaced B-airs in general), and it comes out faster than he can N-air if you use it for that. You also forget that D-air is a fairly safe crossup on block. It's use lies in edgeguarding and punishing from certain angles. If you're going to punish from a different angle, Up-B or B-air usually are the safer choices. It's one of few things G&W can do to mix it up when being rushed down in the ditto since he has so few options for countering his B-air directly.

I'm sorry you're not playing people who know how to punish dair.

Oh, and GWs bair sucks and is easy to punish. Or at least I've always been able to playing against every single top gw player.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I think you should play this matchup by taking turns hitting eachother with the judgement hammer.

This.
This is the ONLY way to play the matchup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_P9xKp1CfQ

 

[Mr. Grey]

HAHAHAHA

that video is awesome.

Hylian I was gonna ask you earlier, would bacon help in any way in this matchup?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Chef can sometimes be safe to throw out at the edge if he chooses to edgecamp, but isn't the best option for edgeguarding since you're probably going to be aiming to punish his getup with an aerial.

 

[Mr. Grey]

I see, well thats the last question I had thanks a lot I've learned a lot about this ditto match from this thread

 

[fraudster111]

Ooooooo Gnw fact challenge. I never knew nair beat the key tho. Good to know.
Edit: Didnt want to double post but i just wanna say that we take this nintendo beat em up WAYY too seriously. What if they brought a new ssb like in 2months out of nowhere with new chars and like 5 of the old ones. Then all these information and time we all spent honing on our skills gone.