Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Nidtendofreak]

By another Ike? lol okey

By frame data. Patches always get data mined within a few days.

Most likely Ike was not touched at all.

 

[san.]

Run speed is still the same as Kirby's. Ike's fair is still slightly slower than Bowser's. Not changed imo.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Well, I found one thing.

The visual glitch involving Aether Drive is no longer in. Other than that, Ike probably hasn't been touched at all. ^-^

 

[Zatchiel]

I haven't noticed anything different myself, with default Ike. Not sorry to report though. I like him the way he is right now.

Been having a lot of fun playing against the Mewtwos today. In specific, the truckload of them in FG. Many of the ones I came across were smash-happy and threw out Shadow Ball like it was going out of style. I don't think I've ever been happier with Ike's counter.

 

[Arrei]

I was not expecting Mewtwo to be so light. Bair is completely destroying these guys from midstage.

 

[gsninja]

I was not expecting Mewtwo to be so light. Bair is completely destroying these guys from midstage.

Dude no kidding. I was spectating a Jigglypuff vs. Mewtwo fight earlier this morning and Jig's FSmash KO'd Mewtwo at high 90%/low 100% from about midstage.

 

[Ekans647]

What's even funnier is the fact that Mewtwo is so large and that most of his attacks expose his hitboxes. His tail is not disjointed and weak, so its often out-prioitized. Against a swore character like Ike, Mewtwo gets wrecked.

 

[Casval]

I'm going to a tournament on Friday hopefully (my first one in seven years) where Mewtwo will be legal, hoping that I get to wreck a few.

(actually I'm really just hoping to make it past the first round)

 

[critter17]

I've noticed how light Mewtwo is too. He gets killed by his own Usmash at like 85-90%

 

[Maik93]

Right now everyone seems to try beeing a Mewto...
It's never been so easy to punish an Opponent...
And yes I've noticed it too: Mewto is light like a feather. I killed him from almost the other side of the stage at around 100% with a fAir. Though watch out for his uThrow, it starts to kill you at around 120%

 

[gsninja]

I'm going to a tournament on Friday hopefully (my first one in seven years) where Mewtwo will be legal, hoping that I get to wreck a few.

(actually I'm really just hoping to make it past the first round)

Good luck lol, I went to my first Smash 4 tourney last Sunday and somehow managed to make it to the third round going solo Ike before getting absolutely btfo by a Diddy.

 

[Casval]

Good luck lol, I went to my first Smash 4 tourney last Sunday and somehow managed to make it to the third round going solo Ike before getting absolutely btfo by a Diddy.

Hey that's still impressive. Hopefully the recent Diddy nerf will make it easier on folks like us.

 

[AN(M)ist]

Are any ike mains planning to go to evo? Customs will be allowed so it's gonna be wild. I'm sure there will be people stupidly abusing villager's slippery sap and exploding balloons. Palutena will be riding the wind and rosalina will have fun with the warping luma.

Tbh I did go to a customs ON smash4 tourney here where I lost to a rosalina, but tbh it was mainly due to my unfamiliarity with Ike's customs and skill gap, warping luma and shooting star bits didn't feel much of a hindrance at all.

 

[Casval]

I saw one custom move match with Ike where the player used Tempest to edge guard and it pushed Luigi far back enough as he was jumping to put him in the prime spot for fsmash. Dude got wrecked. Hoping to see plays like that if any Ike players go.

I'm super nervous, it's not too long until my first tournament in a long time tonight. I'm gonna try to go solo Ike, hoping I win at least one match.

 

[critter17]

I saw one custom move match with Ike where the player used Tempest to edge guard and it pushed Luigi far back enough as he was jumping to put him in the prime spot for fsmash. Dude got wrecked. Hoping to see plays like that if any Ike players go.

I did that to a Yoshi once. It's one of the most satisfying things to pull off something like that.

 

[Casval]

I did that to a Yoshi once. It's one of the most satisfying things to pull off something like that.

Awesome. I hope to be able to pull off stuff like that if I ever go to a customs-legal tournament. Although I'm not sure how I'd feel about losing the vertical edgeguard capabilities of the normal Eruption.

Update on last night: I placed 5th out of 16 people. Played Ike the whole way unless I lost a match, then I'd switch to Dedede (which was a bad choice in both matches).

Highlights include an Eruption edgeguard on a Rob player at Smashville in which he was in between my sword and the stage when I released it, so it ended up in being the sickest stage spike I've ever done.

I think I only made it so far because the bracket was in my favor early on and I took advantage of the fact that most people there didn't know the Ike matchup too well.

Got eliminated by a really good Ness player by the name of Wumbo, not sure if they're around here. My Ike was powerless against him. Gonna have to practice those matchups. And maybe keep ZSS or Marth as my reserve over Dedede.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So we appearantly got some buffs? I knew I was doing better with Ike recently than I usually do, I thought it was just me getting better but it turns out it was buffs.

 

[Casval]

So we appearantly got some buffs? I knew I was doing better with Ike recently than I usually do, I thought it was just me getting better but it turns out it was buffs.

So far there have been no known changes to Ike. You've either gotten better with him or your opponents have gotten nerfed.

 

[AN(M)ist]

I've been thinking about this, do you guys think for this game that characters with more pressure tools and speed will always have an upper hand against those that do not? And for that matter, the only way the "slower" characters will be able to win tourneys is if they outskill and outread their opponent by a significant margin?

 

[Casval]

I've been thinking about this, do you guys think for this game that characters with more pressure tools and speed will always have an upper hand against those that do not? And for that matter, the only way the "slower" characters will be able to win tourneys is if they outskill and outread their opponent by a significant margin?

I think so. This game heavily favors those with either exceptional speed or gimmicky playstyles. Projectiles too, somewhat.

Like, look at the supposed tier list. Every S tier character either has superior speed, combo potential, important projectiles that are integral to their style, or some stupid trick up their sleeve, or some combination of any of those things.

A tier characters follow the same trend for the most part.

To me, the tier list just shows who has the easiest road to victory. Ike doesn't really have most of the qualities that more widely used characters do. A good Ike can pull off some sweet combos, but I'm not sure any of the other things I mentioned earlier apply to Ike.

Sure, victory is possible with Ike, and for similar characters, but it's a much longer road. The way the smash community fights is a lot of the time centered on beating your opponent to the punch, and slow guys can't really do that as effectively.

 

[AN(M)ist]

I never really understood why fast characters get safe moves. Shouldn't it be the other way around: speed trades for safety. Like faster characters should have quick but vulnerable moves and slower characters should have slow but safe moves. And medium characters with a balance of the two.

I suppose that's too streamlined.

 

[Blubolouis]

So my utilt clanked with pikachu's upb... the world of tiers is a cruel one.

 

[Sol0ke]

Blubo! Haven't seen you in a while

Do you still main Shiek?

 

[Furret]

So my utilt clanked with pikachu's upb... the world of tiers is a cruel one.

the parameters to clank in this game are really low, it's not surprising sadly

 

[Blubolouis]

Yeah, haven't been on smashboards a whole lot, especially the Ike forum. But I gotta have those 1000 posts!
Still maining sheik but since I barely play her online, and barely ever play offline, she's probably gotten worse than my ness.

 

[Casval]

I never really understood why fast characters get safe moves. Shouldn't it be the other way around: speed trades for safety. Like faster characters should have quick but vulnerable moves and slower characters should have slow but safe moves. And medium characters with a balance of the two.

I suppose that's too streamlined.

I like the idea but how much complaining do you think we'd get if we landed every fsmash with Ike we tried?

Unless you mean safer by less ending lag rather than starting lag. Which I would really appreciate. If I can find a proper SD card I'm gonna start playing Ike in Project M. That's the kind of Ike I wanted to see in Smash 4, despite how farfetched my hopes were.

 

[Arrei]

If I had to balance it, I think I'd do something where quick characters' attacks are less safe on shield while the heavyweights have more significant shield push and/or stun on their attacks to keep them safe. A lot of quick characters are still very hard to punish on block despite them committing to their harder-hitting moves, while heavies tend to leave themselves open from things as simple as jab combos. Since grabs are a thing and speedsters have the easiest time landing them, heavies ought to get more pressure options, is what I figure.

 

[Banjobeast158]

what do you guys think is Ike's most significant weakness?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

what do you guys think is Ike's most significant weakness?

Lack of super armor.

 

[AN(M)ist]

what do you guys think is Ike's most significant weakness?

I'd say the endlag in almost all of his moves including jabs. And it prevents him from reliably having a pressure game, some thing that is crucial to take control of the flow of the battle. Sure he can play a keep out game with most his aerials, dtilts, and jabs but they dont really pressure the opponent.

His jabs in brawl were near instantaneous had crouch cancel which gave him a very reliable closeup pressure tool. No one in their right mind would simply rush in on ike cause he would easily rack up 20+% on them, allowing him to have control in close quarter combat (cqc). It also helped him refresh his stale moves very quickly. In this game ike can't do that kind of close pressure. Even his jabs became a huge commitment cause you can't cancel out of them, either you wait till the endlag in the move normally finishes or complete the string. I'm not saying its a bad move now, just that his previous jab gave that fear of punishment to your opponents for rushing ike which this jab doesn't do anymore.

 

[AN(M)ist]

I like the idea but how much complaining do you think we'd get if we landed every fsmash with Ike we tried?

Unless you mean safer by less ending lag rather than starting lag. Which I would really appreciate. If I can find a proper SD card I'm gonna start playing Ike in Project M. That's the kind of Ike I wanted to see in Smash 4, despite how farfetched my hopes were.

Yeah safer meaning less endlag, or enough sheild push so your opponent can't really rush in instantaneously. Take ddd's fsmash, it has slow startup but enough sheild push/damage to keep him safer than ike, it also has less cool down I believe despite having about the same kill power as Ike's.

 

[Arrei]

I'm gonna say his weakness is the fact that so many of his moves are slow to start up. Without the ability to put out a fast hitbox in the air, he has a hard time getting opponents off of him if they get past his spacing, and his Ftilt and Utilt are pretty much smash attacks in their own right, giving him a lot of kill and read potential but limiting his ability to poke and catch landings by characters that can throw out quicker hitboxes.

 

[Ekans647]

So what are the key game play difference between Marth and Ike? They both play similarly, focusing of spacing and punishes.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike and Marth are veeeeeeery different in this game.

Ike doesn't worry about spacing in the same way Marth does. Ike can play a lot faster than Marth can. Ike doesn't particularly care what part of his sword hits in most cases. Ike has more combo options than Marth. Ike doesn't do much in the way of trapping while Marth attempts to do that. Ike actual has an existent CQC game. Ike gains a whole lot more with Customs while Marth gains a reliable kill setup (his only one).

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Anyone up for an Ike one on one ?

 

[Ekans647]

Ike and Marth are veeeeeeery different in this game.

Ike doesn't worry about spacing in the same way Marth does. Ike can play a lot faster than Marth can. Ike doesn't particularly care what part of his sword hits in most cases. Ike has more combo options than Marth. Ike doesn't do much in the way of trapping while Marth attempts to do that. Ike actual has an existent CQC game. Ike gains a whole lot more with Customs while Marth gains a reliable kill setup (his only one).

So basically, Ike is more aggressive while Marth is more passive. Ike can also combo, KO, and control space better while Marth has tipper and gimmicks.

 

[Arrei]

Well, I wouldn't say Ike controls space "better" per se, apart from the greater reach of his sword, he just spaces differently. Since Marth moves and attacks quicker and is floatier than Ike, most of his spacing options are quicker and allow him to move more dynamically. Marth can also put more pressure on the opponent when chasing them down than Ike can, as Marth can throw out multiple, more precise attacks during his air time whereas Ike tries to land that one decisive blow using his reach and area coverage, and on the ground there is the ever-looming threat of Shield Breaker.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Marth actually doesn't attack that much quicker than Ike does, particularly when comparing aerials. And Ike has the benefit of linger frames.

 

[Arrei]

Yes, I mentioned Ike uses his coverage to land that one good hit, but the lingering frames on Nair and slower startup just makes the difference in their styles more apparent. Most of Marth's aerials start up earlier than Ike's, and Bair's startup matches Ike's, making him more about quick precise strikes and giving him better ability to get pressure off of him, while Ike tries to coax his opponent into the right spot to land a hit or start a combo, but he can only manage one attack before having to land, and as we're painfully aware, he has trouble getting pressure off of him.

 

[SimplyClutchh]

I went to a few tournaments a while ago over spring break. I placed 5th in a 51-person tourney, 1st in an 18-person house tourney, and 4th in a 21-person tourney. Ike the whole way. It was an awesome experience, and I'm glad the smash 4 community is finally starting to grow in my area. The 51-person tourney was pretty tiresome, especially since it was my first showing at a tournament since 2008 lol.

I think Ike definitely has the potential to win local tourneys, so don't give up, guys! Though when I advanced rounds, I found myself having to work a lot harder than my opponent to get the same results -- especially when going against high tier characters. I was hoping this last patch would give Ike a buff or two to help ease Ike's efforts, but that didn't happen. Anyways, I'm going to a few more tournaments in these coming summer months, so hopefully I can stay consistent and keep placing high.