Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[mimicmatter]

Actuallly started to use uthrow a bit and I have little problems connecting a nair and sometimes fair/uair with a full hop or a quick buffered double jump, even at mid-high %s. Anyone else feel the same?

Haven't played in a while, so I feel bad in general. Uthrow is very usefull at low percent, it connect very well, but as soon as the % ranks up, combo doesn't connect. Normally, at mid-high % that would be the moment for Ike to KO with any of his killing moves, but in smash 4, even 50-80 % is far from enough to kill in any way except with fully charge side smash, which would not normally happen in competitive play. As far as the control goes, I wasn't bothered by the 3ds control at first but now it, some of my inputs doesn't go and everytime i roll and attack afterward, I alwayss face the other way. Finally, it might be just me going too much when I play but when I'm trying to tilt, I do a smash instead 50 % of the time, which is really not good for Ike.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Do you guys think Ike is overall better or worse than in Brawl? I know the execution of most of his moves are faster, buT his attacks are weaker. What do you think of SSB4 Ike?

This is precisely what I want to know as well.

I think, from a casual standpoint, he's worse. What seemed to draw many players, especially casuals, to Ike was his killing potential. From what I remember from the early years of SSBB, the three of his most used attacks were F-smash, Aether, and Quick Draw; all of which are now nerfed in damage output, which may be off-putting to some that have used him before.

Sadly, I have no real input on his performance in a competitive environment as I don't have the game yet; however, I am certain the more competitive players will be better at overcoming the damage output reduction as well as making better use of his buffed attributes, like his increased mobility and higher jump. Still, we are lacking optimal controls, like the C-stick, which means there may still be new options we have yet to explore with this character that are not possible with the 3DS.

Based on what I saw from gameplay videos of him, especially Ryuga's, he seems improved overall. If we are going by popular opinion, however, then worse, since I almost always see Ike within the bottom 10, even bottom 5, in many people's tier lists.

^-^

 

[mimicmatter]

Tourney match is up:

This was the 2nd set I've played using customs, the 1st being my round 1 match against a Yoshi. It was a good learning experience, I'll say that much.

Oh my ! You are so good ! That's really inspiring. Honestly I found some of myself in the match, pretty much doing almost the similar tactics when I'm playing, the one things I still need to learn is the fastfall neutral air and grab more often.

One question to ask : Doesn't Uthrow - Aether wouldn't be a better combo, especially at low percent instead of Uthrow - Uair or Fair ? When I'm pulling this it always work, at least until 50 %, is there a way for the other to punish you for it ?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do you guys think Ike is overall better or worse than in Brawl? I know the execution of most of his moves are faster, buT his attacks are weaker. What do you think of SSB4 Ike?

The airdodge and hitstun mechanics noticeably help Ike. Most of his aerials also are slightly less laggy in this game. Plus he's a character that has throw combos that actually can do more than 15% at low percents, while at higher percents he has the benefit of a high DPS pummel to keep his throw reward above average.

Plus with actually useful tilts in midrange, I'd say he's overall better off in this game as a result. Plus custom Eruptions address one of his biggest problems in lacking varied edgeguard options.

Brawl Ike basically had like...3 good moves, and it was much harder for him to juggle characters due to his landing lag and airdodge mechanics. Not helping him that his recovery was also very vulnerable to ledge invincibility abuse, which was removed from this game.

 

[Aether9000]

Here's the footage I promised. It's nothing special to be honest. My mom ran out of space on her phone so I couldn't get everything. I got a sick F Smash off of his roll and she didn't get it.

 

[Deathcarter]

Do you guys think Ike is overall better or worse than in Brawl? I know the execution of most of his moves are faster, buT his attacks are weaker. What do you think of SSB4 Ike?

He feels better overall. His extreme strengths from Brawl (kill power, jab game, range) were dialed back but they've made him more versatile and fixed a lot of the bull**** that he suffered from due to poor design oversights. Now he has an great poke in D-tilt for mid range, he has follow ups on his throws and aerials at low to mid percents, his recovery is no longer automatically gimped by somebody jumping into Quick Draw, he now slides up stages when performing Aether which allows Aether to be used as a poking tool and doesn't cause Ike to SD for using Aether from under the stage, Counter is actually useable now, and he's received general buffs in aerial mobility, double jump height, aerial attack speed + ending/landing lag, and even weight.

In short, Ike feels a LOT more ironed out as a character here than in Brawl.

 

[Ekans647]

He feels better overall. His extreme strengths from Brawl (kill power, jab game, range) were dialed back but they've made him more versatile and fixed a lot of the bull**** that he suffered from due to poor design oversights. Now he has an great poke in D-tilt for mid range, he has follow ups on his throws and aerials at low to mid percents, his recovery is no longer automatically gimped by somebody jumping into Quick Draw, he now slides up stages when performing Aether which allows Aether to be used as a poking tool and doesn't cause Ike to SD for using Aether from under the stage, Counter is actually useable now, and he's received general buffs in aerial mobility, double jump height, aerial attack speed + ending/landing lag, and even weight.

In short, Ike feels a LOT more ironed out as a character here than in Brawl.

I agree. In Brawl, all his moves had way too much power, which I feel hurt Ike more than it helped. "Nerfing" some of his moves damage output and knockback while speeding up their execution gave Ike the combos he desperately needed, while still retaining his signature KO power in his U-tilt, B-air, F-Smash, and Eruption. Overall I feel Ike was buffed.

Congrats on Ike's victory in the latest Conquest "Battle of the Beefcakes"! I still can't believe they actually named a Conquest that...

 

[-RedX-]

The only nerf that I feel is "unfair" is how Ike's Fsmash is slower and less powerful than Bowser's. I think they even have similar range. I don't use Fsmash often but when I hit someone at around 80% and they fly across the entire stage and still live, doesn't feel right. Lol

 

[Ekans647]

The only nerf that I feel is "unfair" is how Ike's Fsmash is slower and less powerful than Bowser's. I think they even have similar range. I don't use Fsmash often but when I hit someone at around 80% and they fly across the entire stage and still live, doesn't feel right. Lol

Well with DLC and patches, Saukrai can buff and nerf characters as needed. I still love F-Smash and often find myself using to edgeguard. I get early KO'es with it because I position myself closer to the side blast line. I would still like a slight buff to KO to knockback though and super armor.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The only nerf that I feel is "unfair" is how Ike's Fsmash is slower and less powerful than Bowser's. I think they even have similar range. I don't use Fsmash often but when I hit someone at around 80% and they fly across the entire stage and still live, doesn't feel right. Lol

Yeah like, I wish F-smash had a real use. It's kinda his signature move, not unlike Ganondorf's Warlock Punch.

tipper Marth F-smash is like frame 10 and kills people at similar percents wtf. Yeah. Balance.

 

[Ekans647]

Yeah like, I wish F-smash had a real use. It's kinda his signature move, not unlike Ganondorf's Warlock Punch.

tipper Marth F-smash is like frame 10 and kills people at similar percents wtf. Yeah. Balance.

Simple Solution: Super Armor on the F-Smash.

 

[mimicmatter]

Simple Solution: Super Armor on the F-Smash.

Or Shield Piercing !

 

[san.]

This is gimmicky, but does Ike's dair jab reset at low percents? Something like a 0% dthrow or low % nair->footstool->dair while not very effective, may be a fancy trick to learn

 

[Mario766]

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking about, but trying things like it wouldn't probably work.

You get nothing after the Down Air anyways, and they'll be able to act before your recovery frames end.


Talking about F-Smash, has anyone tried doing a pivot F-Smash to punish? Same idea as in other games with moves that bring your hurtbox back then forward, like Bowser from Melee, except you have to do an actual command.

 

[san.]

I was mostly just curious if dair jab reset after a footstool. Rest assured, the practicality of any footstool setup is pretty much 0, but it would just be nice to learn.

Pivot fsmash would only work as a punish to opponent smash attacks. Not many people are going to use a smash attack in neutral unless they're guessing you would nair or dash into the attack.

 

[mimicmatter]

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking about, but trying things like it wouldn't probably work.

You get nothing after the Down Air anyways, and they'll be able to act before your recovery frames end.


Talking about F-Smash, has anyone tried doing a pivot F-Smash to punish? Same idea as in other games with moves that bring your hurtbox back then forward, like Bowser from Melee, except you have to do an actual command.

I did, It kind of work, but it depend on the character. Quick dodging character like sheik, greninja or warp dodge like Rosalina and Palutena has so few uninvicible frame between each dodge that it's almost inconstant. F-smash has about 4 frames of hit while the dodge of these characters is about the same. Synching those hit can be really tricky.

 

[WaluigiWeegeeSteel]

Today I learned that neutral b can spike at certain points. I still need to work on my timing with Aether even though I have mastered a lot of his tricks.

 

[san.]

Eruption is probably the most powerful spike in the game at 25%

I think I'm starting to see a little bit of the potential of Aether Wave, Ike's Aether3. I used it before when I wasn't as familiar with Ike's combo game and was disappointed with the damage, but this supplements it quite well, especially with QD2. The other aethers aren't as great at damage racking as I thought because of rage (well, aether1 anyways). It is quite safe when used above someone, and excels if it's used against someone sent above a platform since it lands almost automatically. This is definitely a great tool on stages with platforms that are above the height of Battlefield's side platforms. The chip damage adds up when you use it conservatively, making it rival the 1-2 times you'll be able to hit with the other aethers. On the ground, the ideal height is slightly beyond ftilt reach, giving Ike a great tool at range without having to run up to them.

I mentioned this before, but the initial hitbox reaches out a bit farther than the other aethers and it retains some super armor even after landing for some reason. The projectile also has shield destroying properties and counts as physical (can't be reflected in any way).

It's vertical recovery is almost as good as Aether1's, but the horizontal recovery is poor. If you're hit out of your double jump, you're in extreme danger. On the other hand, it's much quicker and can still be reversed if you're hugging the side of the stage (be careful, though) and reverse aether hits quite easily, and it's more difficult to gimp once you're in position. Because you can grab the ledge quicker, you may acquire an extra chance to attack the opponent during his recovery.

Aether1: Bigger guys and attacking deep offstage
Aether2: Best mix of offense + recovery. You can't go deep, but you can go far out horizontally
Aether3: Least amount of damage, but most spammable and can go nearly as deep.

 

[Oblivion129]

it retains some super armor even after landing for some reason.

Does that mean it has super armor even at the top? That'll be great to be safe from spikes and counters.

By the way, guys. Ike amiibo!

 

[san.]

Does that mean it has super armor even at the top? That'll be great to be safe from spikes and counters.

By the way, guys. Ike amiibo!
View attachment 29442

After you land with aether3, there is still a small period where you can get hit and still have a super armor effect. Not the whole way through, though.

I haven't gotten hit out of it yet, so I'm not sure about during the ascent. No super armor while he ascends, but after you land, you have super armor until Ike starts to get up from landing. You're not vulnerable for long. I could land on a smart bomb and retain super armor.

 

[Oblivion129]

After you land with aether3, there is still a small period where you can get hit and still have a super armor effect. Not the whole way through, though.

I haven't gotten hit out of it yet, so I'm not sure about during the ascent. No super armor while he ascends, but after you land, you have super armor until Ike starts to get up from landing. You're not vulnerable for long. I could land on a smart bomb and retain super armor.

Yeah I just tried it. No super armor while ascending but since the attack is faster in general, you're still less vulnerable.
The hitbox is really good. Doesn't do as much damage for combos at low % but is useful throughout the match to keep away and hit the opponent off-stage.

 

[RadiantTactician]

Does that mean it has super armor even at the top? That'll be great to be safe from spikes and counters.

By the way, guys. Ike amiibo!
View attachment 29442

Aww yeah! I've been wanting an Ike one; day one for me!

 

[san.]

Yeah I just tried it. No super armor while ascending but since the attack is faster in general, you're still less vulnerable.
The hitbox is really good. Doesn't do as much damage for combos at low % but is useful throughout the match to keep away and hit the opponent off-stage.

Yeah, they all seem pretty interchangeable. It sounds like a good idea to set some time to get used to all 3. It can also be used as chip damage in combos where everything else won't reach in time for an extra ~6%.

 

[Ekans647]

Does that mean it has super armor even at the top? That'll be great to be safe from spikes and counters.

By the way, guys. Ike amiibo!
View attachment 29442

Ike amiibo looks awesome. Definitely getting it when it comes out.

 

[Planet God Venus]

The only nerf that I feel is "unfair" is how Ike's Fsmash is slower and less powerful than Bowser's. I think they even have similar range. I don't use Fsmash often but when I hit someone at around 80% and they fly across the entire stage and still live, doesn't feel right. Lol

Why would you use fsmash in the first place?

 

[-RedX-]

Why would you use fsmash in the first place?

So I can hurt the opponent mentally.

 

[Planet God Venus]

So I can hurt the opponent mentally.

You're a bad person.

lmfao.

 

[Vinylic.]

If you like reading, fsmash is for you.

Actually most of his smashes require reading.

 

[mimicmatter]

As of today, update 1.04 for smash was announce staying that it will bring some balance into the game. While there is no specificity on the balance that it will bring, version 1.03 was suppose to bring balance too but there was nothing that observable.

Still, if we have to believe there is such balancement to be made, Is Ike need some buff or nerfed and if so, what should it be improve or nerfed.

Personnaly I have to say that Ike really need something to make him different and boost him up a little bit. Little Mac has super armor frame on every smash, Marth has tip sweetspot, Bowser is super heavy and quite quick on his feet. First of all, Ike should have his super armor back for his Eruption, but it should have something really stronger for his overall play. Either have some superarmor frame of his moves or shield piercing ability.

What are you though on that ?

 

[Ekans647]

As of today, update 1.04 for smash was announce staying that it will bring some balance into the game. While there is no specificity on the balance that it will bring, version 1.03 was suppose to bring balance too but there was nothing that observable.

Still, if we have to believe there is such balancement to be made, Is Ike need some buff or nerfed and if so, what should it be improve or nerfed.

Personnaly I have to say that Ike really need something to make him different and boost him up a little bit. Little Mac has super armor frame on every smash, Marth has tip sweetspot, Bowser is super heavy and quite quick on his feet. First of all, Ike should have his super armor back for his Eruption, but it should have something really stronger for his overall play. Either have some superarmor frame of his moves or shield piercing ability.

What are you though on that ?

Super armor on his smashes and Eruption, or more KO power on said moves.

 

[san.]

Direct-Feed gaming at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGx_m_GBR0bkTnKHunIZDjA used a lot of Ike, and I didn't really notice too much (wasn't looking too far into it at the time). I would not like upsmash buffed any more than it already is. I guess giving less lag to fsmash, dsmash, and ftilt would be nice.

Also, I am fairly certain that Eruption 2's windbox scales with rage. At very high percent, you can blow someone away from the middle of FD, similar to Master Core's windbox.

 

[Oblivion129]

I think the patch will just fix glitches.

For balance, I think Ike needs an attack than comes out quick, to be used as a combo breaker/escaper.
As Meta Knight, Ike was probably the easiest to combo with my Uairs. Maybe the opponent didn't know how to escape, but I'm pretty sure Ike was still easier to combo than most.

 

[Deathcarter]

Does that mean it has super armor even at the top? That'll be great to be safe from spikes and counters.

By the way, guys. Ike amiibo!
View attachment 29442

Lol, why is Ike bigger than Bowser and Dedede?

As of today, update 1.04 for smash was announce staying that it will bring some balance into the game. While there is no specificity on the balance that it will bring, version 1.03 was suppose to bring balance too but there was nothing that observable.

Still, if we have to believe there is such balancement to be made, Is Ike need some buff or nerfed and if so, what should it be improve or nerfed.

Personnaly I have to say that Ike really need something to make him different and boost him up a little bit. Little Mac has super armor frame on every smash, Marth has tip sweetspot, Bowser is super heavy and quite quick on his feet. First of all, Ike should have his super armor back for his Eruption, but it should have something really stronger for his overall play. Either have some superarmor frame of his moves or shield piercing ability.

What are you though on that ?

Ike gets his jab cancel and damage from Brawl back. Alas......

 

[Oblivion129]

Lol, why is Ike bigger than Bowser and Dedede?


Ike gets his jab cancel and damage from Brawl back. Alas......

They made him huge. I'm fine with it, though.
Releasing February 2015

 

[Vinylic.]

Ike gets his jab cancel and damage from Brawl back. Alas......

Is there a source for this?

 

[Deathcarter]

Is there a source for this?

No, that's just the hypothetical buff I'd wish to see Ike get in the upcoming patch. I don't think we have any information of buffs or nerfs outside of Luma's longer respawn time.

 

[mimicmatter]

No, that's just the hypothetical buff I'd wish to see Ike get in the upcoming patch. I don't think we have any information of buffs or nerfs outside of Luma's longer respawn time.

What ? There is a legitimate source that mention that Luma will make more time to respawn ?

 

[Vinylic.]

There is, and lasts longer than 8 seconds. 13.

 

[Mario766]

Ike's jab looks much faster.

I wonder if Jab 1-2-3 will actually combo in this game.

 

[mimicmatter]

Ike's jab looks much faster.

I wonder if Jab 1-2-3 will actually combo in this game.

That would be the first thing to do at least, making sure the jab combo can be done completely. I can deal with the damage reduction from brawl but please make it a real combo !