Frame traps

[Throwback]

A frame trap in this sense is a series of moves that, if the wrong action is taken initially by your opponent (typically the 'action' is getting hit), a situation arises where they do not have enough of a frame window to attack, and have only a few frames to defend themselves correctly.

Samus has a few frame traps, I thought I might list a few that I know of and see if anyone has any more.

- HMC to dash grab: If the opponent blocks the missile they have very few frames to roll/spot dodge.

- HMC to SH zair: timed correctly these two hits come very close together and might not be dodgeable, even on shield (not sure)

- HMC to CS - if the HM hits the CS is guaranteed at the right distance

- ledge-hopped Fair to upB: even if the fair is shielded you can often upB through the inevitable grab

- bomb to dair spike: Haven't done this myself but we've all seen it in videos

- bomb to most ground attacks: during hitstun, if the bomb hits

- landing zair to rising zair

- uair to utilt (DI dependent, true combo)

- dash attack to upB: at 20-80% ish

-unfinished uair to up+b. can also end with nair or bair, but its riskier

-fair to zair in one jump (possibly a SH)

-against an aerial opponent - jab to jab/swipe/dtilt

-DA to jab (below 40%) -> Dtilt/Ftilt/UpB

-zair to DA (low % or really close zair)

-unfinished uair -> upB

- vs airborne opponent when they are near landing: uncharged blast -> grab

- air grab release -> FCS -> dash grab

- @~40%, dair -> FCS

 

[MRS1]

haha i like this list, though i feel it might be so well recieved. its all known information but it is good to think about all these options in one place. its also funny how it the list devolves from "HMC to Dash Grab" to "bomb to almost anything" I'll be sure to land a lot of bombs to almost anythings tonight.

 

[Hive]

dash attack to screw attack is a classic example of this

 

[Rhyme]

Uair->Utilt

If you don't connect with the last hitbox of Uair/Fair and you buffer a Utilt then it's a combo, provided you landed beneath your opponent's feet. My favorite mix-up to the traditional Uair/Fair->Dtilt because your opponent doesn't know which direction to DI in.

 

[Throwback]

@MRS1 - I'm talking about hitting someone with a grounded move during their hitstun, lol. I'll change that one slightly.

@hive - yeah forgot that one, I'll add it.

@Rhyme - I'm not 100% sure on this one since it is DI dependent. I'll add it tho.

 

[Sago]

dash attack to up b almost never combos for me people either shield or air dodge

 

[Radicool]

dash attack to up b almost never combos for me people either shield or air dodge

It depends on their health percentage. If it's too high it won't work most of the time.

 

[Throwback]

it's not supposed to be a combo, it's a frame trap. If the opponent doesn't air-dodge immediately, they get caught in the upB. They don't have the opportunity (ie enogh frames) to retaliate, hence the 'frame trap'.

 

[LanceStern]

I've been testing this and it works. Kind of situational but:

Starting at around 26% and up until about 37%:
- Short hop super missile
- Run after the super missile and short hop. Start a dair expecting the super missile to connect
- If the super missile connects around those percentages, and you fast fall the dair correctly, they can do nothing but get daired. And since the super missile takes them off of their feet, you dair them immediately to the floor
- Jab Lock

I practiced that about 2 weeks ago and it's very awesome. Just it would be hard to hit them with a super missile and you have to be really sensitive on the short hop fast-fall dair. But it's definitely a frame trap, they can do nothing.

 

[Hive]

dash attack to up b almost never combos for me people either shield or air dodge

really? that's weird that's too bad, I've had that happen occassionally. But I can usually get it to work pretty consistently. Especially in the beginning of a match because they won't know the right time to airdodge it to get out of the screw attack lol. ^^ (plus it looks so kwl!). if they do start catching on after awhile I start punishing with a fulljump uair to homing missile combo (possibly to jab to dtilt) or uair-ff fair-screwattack if i'm lucky. ^^ The point though is that the uair has a different dodge timing than the screw attack so as you do that more and they start to catch onto that it opens up the screw attack option again. Just have to switch it up

 

[Rhyme]

I don't have slo-mo analysis for exact frame data. However, I have played against people like Inui, Shadow, Pierce, Waltz...top players in NJ, and none of them ever DI or airdodge out of this. The determining factors are: 1) Buffered Utilt correctly and 2) Spacing. Samus' Utilt hitbox starts as soon as she raises her foot over her head. If the opponent is located where the Utilt hitbox first appears then it will connect (I know that this works at moderate percentages on all characters...being 60-70% and up, but I don't know about very low or zero percents). More or less, this combo is dependent on your abillity to get the setup correct.

That said, it is well worth the effort to learn this. A character like Oli or Marth would not want to be hit by this at around 100% (if the Utilt is fresh), which is a rather low percentage for a Samus.

 

[n00b]

I've been testing this and it works. Kind of situational but:

Starting at around 26% and up until about 37%:
- Short hop super missile
- Run after the super missile and short hop. Start a dair expecting the super missile to connect
- If the super missile connects around those percentages, and you fast fall the dair correctly, they can do nothing but get daired. And since the super missile takes them off of their feet, you dair them immediately to the floor
- Jab Lock

I practiced that about 2 weeks ago and it's very awesome. Just it would be hard to hit them with a super missile and you have to be really sensitive on the short hop fast-fall dair. But it's definitely a frame trap, they can do nothing.

LOL Lance late pass again, look up the video in Xyros Database called Jab lock by n00b. Haha, first your bombs post now this.

 

[Throwback]

I don't have slo-mo analysis for exact frame data. However, I have played against people like Inui, Shadow, Pierce, Waltz...top players in NJ, and none of them ever DI or airdodge out of this. The determining factors are: 1) Buffered Utilt correctly and 2) Spacing. Samus' Utilt hitbox starts as soon as she raises her foot over her head. If the opponent is located where the Utilt hitbox first appears then it will connect (I know that this works at moderate percentages on all characters...being 60-70% and up, but I don't know about very low or zero percents). More or less, this combo is dependent on your abillity to get the setup correct.

That said, it is well worth the effort to learn this. A character like Oli or Marth would not want to be hit by this at around 100% (if the Utilt is fresh), which is a rather low percentage for a Samus.

I believe that it won't work unless your opponent DIs out of the uair, leaving them in hitstun right above a grounded samus. That's why I have it listed as DI dependent.

 

[LanceStern]

Wow n00b. We share the same mind set, you just did everything first.

There's gotta be a way to progress Samus forward. Hm

 

[Jasona]

very cool thread. great place to look for pieces for new combos

-unfinished uair to up+b. can also end with nair or bair, but its riskier
-fair to zair in one jump (haven't done this one in a long time though. think its a SH)
-against an aerial opponent - jab to jab or jab to swipe or (my favorite) jab to dtilt
-DA to jab (comps tell me its escapable, humans say otherwise)
-zair to DA (low % or really close zair)

 

[Throwback]

nice jasona. I'll put those up later today (aus time).

 

[LanceStern]

Jasona it's unescapeable if you time it right. They have to be below 40% I think and you must time the jab immediately or they can airdodge.

You can actually add to that:
DA to jab -> Dtilt/Ftilt/UpB

I personally like Dtilt to finish it.
It's very useful.

 

[Rohins]

vs airborne opponent when they are near landing:
uncharged blast -> grab

They can roll out but they don't have that much time to act. Serris is a big fan of this.

 

[Hive]

<gasp!> rohins does exist! 0.0

I haven't seen you in awhile lol, how/where have you been? ^^

the charge shot thing sounds kwl ^^ I usually use something similar with missiles.
That actually reminds me of something though-> for grab releases on wario and a few others I think, if you grab release them in the air, and you have a fully charged charge shot available you can usually hit them with it, and then dash grab them while they are stunned from the blast, for another throw ^^ (about 40% damage total if I'm not mistaken)


oh and also at around 40% if you ff dair someone, it makes them bounce a little off the ground and sets thme up for a charge shot or something else ^^ unless they airdodge it right* before it hits them

 

[Throwback]

wow this thread is bringing out heaps of stuff. Nice work all!

 

[LanceStern]

Why is it when I grab wario and ness in practice mode they don't do a grab release?

I was seriously a breath away form finding a (minor) chain grab on Ness. But it won't grab release correclty in training mode

 

[tha_carter]

A FF Dair has enough shield stunt to only give samus a 2 frame disadvantage.

Meaning you can jab, or up b their shield, before most characters can even grab OoS.
And fsmash/dsmash before most characters can shield drop and attack.

 

[n00b]

AIIGHT *****EZ TIME DROP SOME ROCK PAPER SCISSORS ON YO ***

Me: i was thinkin
Me: you know how people like to think homing missile -> dash grab actually works on shield
rohins: lol yeah
Me: yeah
Me: im thinking samus has rock paper scissor options from that
Me: if they stay in shield, grab.. if they learned to spot dodge it, charge downsmash
Me: LOL
Me: if they learned to roll behind you, release downsmash earlier
Me: if they roll away, release and retreat unpunished
Me: eh? EH?
Me: and if they stay in shield, release dsmash for shield knockback to push away any potential shield grab
rohins: yeah this is good

SEE ROHINS SAID ITS GOOD

EDIT: i actually havent tested this im not even sure if she can get close enough to downsmash epic fail

 

[Hive]

lol <3 noob you are too good at analyzing stuff ^^

 

[LanceStern]

Level 9 computers know to roll behind you from the missile -> chain grab. If we can somehow predict and opponent doing that, maybe pivot grab or turn around and plasma shot....

Could be useful.

Also a Frame Trap
--------------------

Zair -> running grab
(zair is not sweetspotteed, you have to be pretty close. Almost buffering the run and grab)

 

[n00b]

Level 9 computers know to roll behind you from the missile -> chain grab. If we can somehow predict and opponent doing that, maybe pivot grab or turn around and plasma shot....

Could be useful.

huh?? i just posted a proposal to charge downsmash if you space the missile close enough to limit their options from shield o_O

 

[LanceStern]

A short hop zair (as close as possible, not fuly extended) -> Running Up smash.

Very swesome.

 

[Hive]

when i was messing around on training today... air grab release on wario to dash usmash looked fairly promising, and you can occasionally chain this to screw attack i think... of course none of this is even remotely tested T.T lol

 

[LanceStern]

Let's test