Fox's shine to Marth's grab

[Sion]

I'm not sure if this question has been posted already, but I'm still wondering about it. Earlier today, my friend was wondering how to grab fox out of his shine -> waveshine -> grab. Picture a fox shining the marth, waveshining to follow, but the marth grabbed before the fox could do anything after the waveshine. We tried ccing the shine, but it didn't work. I've seen M2K do it a couple of times, so I'm wondering what the mechanics are behind it. Does it require a slope or uneven ground?

I've seen this many times before, but I can't exactly show an example of what I'm talking about.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not sure if this question has been posted already, but I'm still wondering about it. Earlier today, my friend was wondering how to grab fox out of his shine -> waveshine -> grab. Picture a fox shining the marth, waveshining to follow, but the marth grabbed before the fox could do anything after the waveshine. We tried ccing the shine, but it didn't work. I've seen M2K do it a couple of times, so I'm wondering what the mechanics are behind it. Does it require a slope or uneven ground?

I've seen this many times before, but I can't exactly show an example of what I'm talking about.

jump right before shine hits. marth gets shined into the ground, landing with no stun, and fox wavedashes into the grab.

 

[Alphicans]

That would only work if the fox doesn't react properly right? It seems like it'd be shine -> marth jumps before shine and tries to grab assuming the fox continues to chase with a wavedash. Couldn't fox just shine and then grab? I've actually never taken note of this happening.

 

[I.B]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure you can CC it. I recall doing it when they didn't lead into shine with d-air. I think I was smash di'ing down or something... I dunno.

Magus Magus Magus

 

[Heart Break Kid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ5ldPrGwKE 2:10 is what your talking about, Im pretty sure. I was on the slanted part of Yoshis though.

But iirc I remember playing Marth/Fox friendlies with IB at Pound and he did it to me on battlefield/dreamland and those stages aare flat

 

[Sion]

jump right before shine hits. marth gets shined into the ground, landing with no stun, and fox wavedashes into the grab.

if the marth gets either nair'd or dair'd before the shine, is it possible for the marth to jump before the aerial is l canceled into shine?

IB, are you sure about the cc thing? we were testing it out a bit, and it didn't seem to work.

 

[TresChikon]

If you get drillshined you can't do anything about it. Drill pins you to the ground and you take the full 33 frames from the shine.

If you get nairshined, you can do something about it. At mid and up % nair pops you up and the shine hits you aerially and you take 9 frames from the shine.

If the Fox is dumb, he'll waveshine afer his nairs, if he isn't he might nair-> jab/utilt/grab/nair again. But you can destroy his nairs with CCs.

You can CC shine, but you still take the full lag, you just don't go as far.

I wouldn't really try to jump before a shine, because if you have that much time, you could just avoid it.

 

[Deleted member]

That would only work if the fox doesn't react properly right? It seems like it'd be shine -> marth jumps before shine and tries to grab assuming the fox continues to chase with a wavedash. Couldn't fox just shine and then grab? I've actually never taken note of this happening.

landing from shine takes away the set 15 frames of stun, so you can just eat the shine and do whatever you want in the WD lag.

 

[MasterShake]

Perhaps DIing away from the shine so you slide farther but the fox still chases?

 

[Niko45]

If you get drillshined you can't do anything about it. Drill pins you to the ground and you take the full 33 frames from the shine.

If you get nairshined, you can do something about it. At mid and up % nair pops you up and the shine hits you aerially and you take 9 frames from the shine.

If the Fox is dumb, he'll waveshine afer his nairs, if he isn't he might nair-> jab/utilt/grab/nair again. But you can destroy his nairs with CCs.

You can CC shine, but you still take the full lag, you just don't go as far.

I wouldn't really try to jump before a shine, because if you have that much time, you could just avoid it.

This is the correct answer. You can't CC the shine in the traditional sense where you cut down your stun time, you can only shorten the distance it sends you. If you get nair shined you were lifted from the ground by the nair and then the stun from shine is cancelled upon hitting the ground. You see sheiks/CFs buffering rolls out of this all the time as well, it's not uncommon. In order for fox to shine grab you he needs to shine you from the ground, IE with dair shine.

Edit: HBK - in your video, it looks like you were jumping either for a fair or a wavedash right after the dtilt. I think he just shined you extremely early in the jump animation, which is why the stun cancelled instantly.