.: Fox Movement Tricks :. All Mindgames and Flashy Movements

[NJzFinest]

dalal, i think u missed de point dat fox is a cheap *** character, therefore gay once u get good with him. unlike wit samus, she's actually harder to be good with mainly since she doesnt have all of de advantages fox does. she requires more skill. but, i play fox well, i dont main playin a gay character falco, peach, marth, and sheik players deal with the samething.

 

[Dalal]

FoxandFalco, you said that I missed THAT point. Well, you're right, but that's if that's what he was really trying to say. He mentioned that he got '1000 times better' after switching to Samus or whatever. That means that he wasn't good with Fox, not that he was cheap.

Either way, I don't think Fox is cheap. However, I agree about the cheapness of some other characters. If you look at BornFidelity.com's guide, it mentions that there are only a few people better than Falco. Sheik (Cheap), Marth(Cheap), Fox (hard to learn), and Peach (Cheap). It says something like that. Then, if you look at CunningKitsune's Fox guide, it again mentions that Fox is difficult to learn. Then, there are a lot of people on these boards who have switched from Fox to Falco because Fox is to fast-paced for them.

All this surely means that Fox isn't a cheap character at all. If he was cheap, it would mean that a noob could have a decent match against you with him. This is not the case. It takes some time to master every aspect of the space animal. The noob player playing Fox will have trouble because he might phantasm off the edge at times, use firefox on people. Whereas if you play a noob Sheik, that Sheik will give you a decent challenge, because she is 'cheap'. It is extremely easy to beat people using her. Her moves are badly designed...

Fox isn't cheap Joker, if that's what you were trying to say. He is actually a decent character, but he has great potential. So either you're saying this because you got badly beaten by a Fox, or you just suck with him. That's what I think.

 

[NJzFinest]

yes, he takes time to learn how to use. but, once ur good with him, he is cheap because of the fact he has so much potential. come on, his aerials have nice priority, his up b has a great mind game, he has a brilliant edge guard, he has AMAZING throw techniques (cg, crazy u-air combo) and, of course, the shine. all of this takes time to master, but that doesnt mean he cant be cheap. he's called 2nd best for a reason. and you have to take into account that joker faces good fox players (Mow, M2k). Wouldnt it make sense for the best characers in the game to be cheap? you kno, since they have the upper hand.

 

[Omni]

You'll only call Fox cheap if you don't know how to beat him. Kinda funny how he can be chaingrabbed by himself, Peach, Marth, Mario, Doc, and Falcon. I think what your problem is determining the line between "cheap" and "good". It's funny because in higher levels of play, you don't hear people whining about characters being cheap. They've figured out ways to completely annihilate a so called counterpick character.

Cheap is a word noobs use when they accept death as the inevitable when in all actuality, the truth is they suck.

Oh, and having an upperhand doesn't make a character cheap. Certain characters have the upperhand on certain characters; that doesn't make all those characters cheap.

 

[Dalal]

FoxandFalco, I can still argue my point, but I understand yours:

Michael Jordan became a succesful basketball star. He did it through hard work and practice (just suppose he did). Does that mean that he is cheap? Just because he unlocked his full potential doesn't make him cheap. He is skilled, not cheap. (Fox is good, not cheap) He is amazing at basketball because of all the hard work he put into practicing. He unlocked his full potential. He could have just dropped out of high school and become poor, not be able to support his family etc. But he unlocked his potential.

In the same way, if you select Fox as your character, initially, you won't be that good with him, but if you work hard and learn all his combos with dedication, you'll become better than many other characters. This doesn't make you cheap. True, Fox has more potential to begin with, but he can be one of the worst players if you don't unlock that potential. That kind of balances it out. I don't think Fox is cheap in anyway, like Shiek (born rich, with Fox you have to earn that money). And plus, it's your choice of character, after all.

Well, anyway. To me, Fox isn't cheap at all, because many people beat me with other characters anyway. That's because I still need to work harder to get better with Fox. Now, if I choose Sheik (a truly cheap character), I would be able to beat most of those people who were able to beat me when I play with Fox (maybe, I'm just speculating).

EDIT: To any Sheik players who are reading this, I'm sorry if I insulted you. I understand that skillfully using Sheik means more than how noobs use her. You guys are better than the type of Sheik players I was talking about. They think they are all good by using Sheik. Sheik is easy for noobs to use, that's it. But you skilled Sheik players, I hope I didn't offend you...

 

[Sars_Pirate]

GARGH Just when i thougth that I learned everything about Fox, you hit me with this. Good job on the guide man. It'll take me another month to incorporate some of the stuff here. None of the material presented is new to me (except for the Doraki thing, WTF); but it's a great compilation of moves. I'll be sure to check on this regularly.

Yay for Dalal.

 

[NJzFinest]

statin anything about michael jordan is irrelevant. he's a human being with all of the advantages as any of us. he didnt start out his basketball carrier with the ability to shine spike nor chain grab fast fallers.

if u seriously think fox is hard to learn, you might as well say any other random character is. it's just a popular opinion since newbies hear "waveshine, shine spike, infinite stall" then they quickly assume fox is a hard character to learn. they even regard the fact they dont have to play with all of his flashy movements. no, wen you go to any other character specific forum, u wouldnt read about a bunch of flashy techniques. i personally find fox much easier to use than marth and samus. isai said that fox is easier to play than sheik!

fox is only hard to be good with if you want to become isai or chillin good, but you can say that about any character. with a little practice, you can still have a solid fox that could take on any sheik or marth thrown at him. you kno why? because it's fox, one of the most amazing characters in the game. you dont need as much skill as most people say. i mean, there's so many ways to play fox and win without abusin his best/hardest techniques. have you ever seen juce's or eve's fox? there's a great number of fox players if u havent noticed; he's one of the most popular character to play it seems...i wonder why...probably cause he's a great character choice?

 

[Dalal]

Heh. Well, with the Michael Jordan thing ... you see ... never mind...

Yeah, I see what you are saying. He IS a popular character choice. But whatever you say, I won't consider my primary character cheap. I don't like that feeling.

Do many people think that Fox is a cheap character? I've been around the boards a little bit, and most people say Fox is hard to master while Sheik is cheap. I haven't heard much about Marth or Peach, but all I know is ... a lot of people say Fox is hard to master and Sheik is cheap.

------------------------------------------

Anyway, forget that. I was thinking about making a quick movie which included most of the movement tricks in this collection. Well, I did. But it turned out that I got so caught in my vid program's features that I started experimenting (added music, made fading titles etc.) Now, it looks pretty professional, I think. You can check it out at the following address (available for 7 days at YouSendIt)

http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2H2TUMMTIZJWH0N9B2PKVBD4E6

Hope you like it. Beware that on the night I was making this I was pretty tired and did a lousy job in some of my wavedashes. That's not how I normally play... Also, I didn't fastfall the circle jump. I can't fastfall without losing distance on the wavedash, so I decided to do it without the fastfall. I still need practice.

- Dalal

 

[Omni]

Good stuff. Put the video on the first post somewhere noticable and edit the title so people will know this video exists.

 

[Dalal]

Thanks InfernoOmni!

Well, I don't think I'll put the link up yet. I heard Serkan is volunteering to host vids on his server. If he agrees, then I'll have a permanent place to store this vid. Then I'll see what I can do...

 

[noob-lube69]

all of the good characters are cheap, you n00bs. That's why they're the good characters...come on now >_>

 

[JFox]

Ledgehop Waveland

I know that this has been dead for a while, but I believe I has some tricks to add. And besides...this is a great thread, it deserves to be brought back to life....

I was playing around with Fox, and I figure this might work as a cool mindgame. When you have good spacing from you opponent, meaning they aren't crowding the edge trying to hit you when you get back on, you have several options. Usually I would just ledgehop onto the ledge and deal with whatever they throw at me. But there are a couple of cool tricks I thought of.

Ledgehop Waveback:

Ledgehop onto the stage, and as landing you waveland back so that you fall off the edge and grab the ledge again. This can fake out your opponent, making them lose their spacing and come try to attack. You dodge the attack by wavelanding back onto the ledge, and than from there you can trap them in lag and ledgehop a Dair. Looks pretty cool and can make you unpredictable.

Ledgehop Accelerator:

When teamed with the ledgehop waveback, this could really confuse the opponent. Instead of wavelanding back onto the ledge, you accelerate your movement by ledgehopping as far as you can, and than as you land waveland forward to meet the opponent and surprise him. Out of the waveland you can do anything, but I recommend a grab because its quick and can lead to combes. Basically what you have done is eliminated the opponents space he has put between you with an unexpected waveland.

Lastly this is something I learned from the great chillin fox, who I give all credit to for this last one. He used this against me and really messed with my mind.

Fakeout Ledgehop:

Pretty simple, but trust me it messes with the mind. Drop of the ledge, and jump straight up, so that you don't land on the platform. Than fastfall back into grabbing the ledge. You just repeat this over and over. This has two purposes, one as a mind game, and the other is so that you quickly regain invincibility frames to help edgehogging against your opponent.

So thats all I got, lemme know what you think.

 

[infilade]

nice. this should be stickied.

 

[Dalal]

It seems like I haven't visited SmashBoards in ages...

Anyway, JFox, I forgot about those movement tricks! Thanks for the contributions! I'll put them up right now.

 

[krazyzyko]

Note(about the ledgestall with the illusion):

There are ledges that are impossible to do the illusion ledgestall:

1.Venom
2.Battlefield
3.Pokemon Stadium
4.All DK stages except the Rock in Kongo jungle

Here are someother weird tricks I sometimes use:

Shiny illusion:

1.This attack is vs. DI whores(Marth,Luigi,etc.)
2.Hit your foe with the shine.
3.IMMEDIATLY cancel the shine with a jump.
4.And before Fox leaves the floor, do the illusion.
5.Your opponent will be stunned in front of you and you can give him(her) an up-smash.
6.Try canceling the illusion more less in the spot that your opponent will fall.

Ledge waveshine penetration:

1.I learned this from Zelgadis vid (shine-blinded)
2.Hang in the edge.
3.Do the shine.
4.cancel it with a mid-air jump.
5.Air dodge diagonally foward and you will waveland into the stage.

Double shine(DJC combo)

1.Dash towards your opponent.
2.Grouch cancel your dash and.....
3.press the following buttons as fast as you can the following order: B,Y,B!
4.Easiest way to do is to put your middle finger in the Y button and your index finger in the B button.
5.If done successfully, your foe will be shined twice.
6.Also great for shine spiking if you missed the first shine.

Shine Ledge stalling:

1.Good for shinespiking while hanging in the ledge.
2.Hang in the edge.
3.Shine
4.you will have some invincibility frames.
5.Cancel it with the firefox(fox will be right in front of the ledge)
6.The animation of the ff will be interrupted because Fox will hang Back to the edge.
7.Step 6 can be also done with the illusion.(but it's much harder)
8.Repeat(if you want)
9.While repeating this fast enough(Tap down B,Tap up B,etc....) You'll keep the edge's invincibility.
10.This is better than the firefox ledge stall.

Chillin dash(Shine glitch):

1.Dash to the ledge
2.Right before running out the stage, do the shine turn around.
3.You will horizontally fly out of the stage in a distance like if you jumped out of the stage and then mid-air jumped further.(sometimes the shine won't even pop out; Fox will have the blueglow.
4.You'll have your mid-air jump(and the ff),so you could use it to get back to the stage after shinespiking your opponent.

I hope this will help.......

I'll keep posting

....later

 

[Silent Wolf]

An infinite that holds fast fallers:

Do the drill spike like you normally would but after each shine, do your standard a punch to keep him standing, then do the down a, shine, punch, down a, shine, punch etc...

 

[JFox]

By down a i assume you mean Down tilt? The down tilt will end up hitting the opponent to high after the first or second try.

 

[SmashMac]

Wow, awesome thread to the tips and tricks to Fox. Good job.

 

[Shuriken]

TY Dalal these moves look awesome.
I have one that i made up, but it's probably out there somewhere...

Shine Ledge Grab

It's hard to time, and varies depending on the stage (traction matters). You simply run to the edge and when you are somewhat near it (hard to describe the distance, but you'll figure it out), shine, and if you distanced it correctly you will just barely fall of the edge. While in the shine hold to the opposite direction and then release B so you finish the shine. You will grab the edge. This is especially useful when you have just knocked you opponent off the other side of the map and need to ledge them quickly. I don't know if there are any alternative methods of ledge grabbing from a dash, but this is a pretty quick way to get onto it. This also doubles as a way to knock the opponent off the edge with the shine and hang from the edge, leaving you in a great position to shine them again or use other methods of ledge guarding.

 

[Dalal]

Oh cool more tricks! I'm kind of in a lazy mood, so I'll put them up later.

Shuriken, that's nice. And, in case you wanted to know, go to this thread:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=62480&page=1&pp=15

More than 6 different instant edge hogging techniques. Just read the entire discussion. It's awesome!

 

[krazyzyko]

Yo Dalal about the illusion canceling you didn't explained the most important thing about this technique:

1.To avoid suicide(Du'h)
2.But to sweetspot the edge when someone is edgegaurding so you'll hang exactly in the edge and avoid a....smash attack,meteor,shinespike your illusion etc.

I got a great timing with this technique and I safely make it back alive by fooling my foe with the illusion fake.

....later

 

[Shuriken]

Ah, sorry about that Dalal, didn't realize there was already a post about it. Anyway, your trick (or Noob Lube's) with doing the shine and then wavedashing off the edge looks nicer and works better anyway.

I know this is about movement tricks, but you should add this trick because it looks insane: I got it from Shined Blind. This might be a bit too much like osmosis107's Double Edge Shine thing, but I prefer it:

After doing either method 1 or 2 of the Ledge Wavedash, waveshine back onto the edge. In Shined Blind Zel does this to a peach but continues it into another waveshine+upsmash, but I think it's flashier if you go back onto the ledge. Also if the opponent its very close to the edge and doesn't react very quickly to your ledge wavedash (unlikely i know) you can wavedash to the other side of them before using the shine, causing them to fall off the edge and you end up on the ledge. If you actually managed to land this move, it would probably be an instant kill.

 

[noob-lube69]

It's not my trick; i saw bombsolider's falco do it in a match once, so i started practicing it. It's probably the fastest (practical) way to grag a ledge when you are a standing far away from it, because the shine turns you around so you can wavedash backwards without losing forward momentum.

 

[krazyzyko]

Pulse shining:

you know that pulse walking involves wavedashing downwards well,the trick is to shine and cancel it with a downward WD(just hold down the joy stick and tap B,X,R,B,X,R....)
Good for shine cornering.

Drillshine cornering:

1.Shine
2.Jump cancel it with a shorthop
3.Tap down the C-stck.
4.L-cancel the drill/dair
5.Repeat.
(vs.characters that slide when shined)

....later

 

[JFox]

Drillshine cornering is basically drillshining into a wall, which is what people constantly do since that is the only way to make it an infinite.

 

[krazyzyko]

Exactly....there's the name.

....later

 

[NJzFinest]

you should add the shine stall, u kno, basically the improved way of infinite stalling since you shine spike+stay incinvible --- http://www.smashboards.com/showthre...ght=shine+stall

also the shine right ouf the a shield without getting off the ground --- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=63783

 

[JFox]

FoxandFalco you posted that shine stall link here and in dawnroyfire's thread, both of which didn't work.

 

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

i was gonna post about this earlier, not much use, but hey, might as well.

i was just fiddling around with platform wd's and then i got the idea of doing a drop through platform->dj back up->wd on platform (while still going up). sortof a fake drop, i guess. anyways it's yet another cool useless thing to try.

 

[NJzFinest]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60439&highlight=shine+stall

^ shine stall (that link works)

 

[lilmiah_#101]

nice guide, ^_^

 

[Brookman]

let's say you smashed someone off the edge from accross the field_ = spacer)

*they are here_________________________* you are here
_____------------------------------------------

and you want to get accross and edge hog, so you dash over, when you get near the edge what would be a better method of turning around? shine turn or back landing?

I dunno if anyone really mentioned this, but I think the back landing would be better, I see people (bombsoldier, cunning blahblahblah) do shine turn arounds sometimes, but I think a revers shl wuold be better, cause there is 0 lag and what not, plus if you are real great you can land right on the end of the stage and just plain fall off onto the edge

 

[SmashMac]

CONTRIBUTE...

Backlanding
A method to short-hop towards the opponent from a dash and land facing the opposite way. For this, you need to be able to backwards SHL pretty consistently. In this case, you need to dash towards the opponent, short-hop, hold away, and while you are falling, fire a laser and fast-fall. If you did this correctly you should hear the gun come out but no laser will be fired. The reason you don't want the laser to come out is because this is a sign that you are firing the laser too early. If you fire too early, then you WILL turn around, but you'll lag in the air from firing the laser and are open to attack. You should fire right before landing so that the only purpose pressing B serves is to turn you around. So, short-hp towards the opponent, fire laser and fast-fall. You'll land facing the opposite way. From here you can go into a shine, since it has more range now, or you can perform a short-hopped bair or anything you wish. Well, you might find SOME use for it at least. EDIT: You can actually perform this move without the sound of the laser. You just need good timing. It's not really necessary to do it like this but it looks pretty cool. Also, you can use this in place of the shine-turnaround for quick edge hogging. Just backland and wavedash backwards. It works well.

My Contribution:
Hey Dalal, this is really good information. I've been testing this out with Falco, he's my main and the one of the two that I play, and my brother has tested it out with Fox. What you do is you run towards the edge, and right next to the edge at your speed of the jump, Backland, and your character should slide down to the edge. All it really takes is good backlanding skill and you're now on the edge. No need to WD backwards o.o!! This is actually a tad bit faster than turning around in the shine to WD backwards ^^º

 

[noob-lube69]

i came up with the shine stall first : (

*cries self to sleep*

 

[Dalal]

Whoa, I haven't been here in a while. Sorry about not updating the first page. I'll be sure to add all these new tricks soon, when I have time.

SmashMac, if you watch my movement tricks video, you'll see me doing that. It's a pretty good technique. I've actually had to use it in battle to edge hog once.

 

[Qazam]

prtty nice stuff i try to gather qall the imformation frfom as masny people possile and try to put it together

 

[krazyzyko]

Ledge hop triple laser(LH3L):

Easiest way to do:

1.Hang in the edge.
2.Tap the C-stick away from the edge.(Fox will let go)
3.Mid-air jump with the joystick.
4.Tap B fast and continuously(While DIing to the stage with the joystick.)

Shielded aerial:

1.shine
2.Jumpcancel it with a SH
3.shuffl aerial
4.L-cancel to shine

Platform slip:

1.waveland out of platform
2.mid-air jump back to platform
3.repeat.

......later

 

[JFox]

Dalal, I saw your mini-video of Fox movement tricks. It gives a sample of how to do many of these basic movement tricks. So why is the video not present anywhere in this thread? It is much easier to watch a move being done that to try and read and understand it. Should the video be put into the beginning of this thread? (Maybe I missed it, in which case you can just ignore my comment)

 

[nox]

Shielded aerial:

1.shine
2.Jumpcancel it with a SH
3.shuffl aerial
4.L-cancel to shine

Platform slip:

1.waveland out of platform
2.mid-air jump back to platform
3.repeat.

......later

lmfao ... **** I gotta start working on my platform slipping and my shielded arials ...

 

[krazyzyko]

LOL! I know this ain't that necesary but it is flashy(like this thread is entitled) and a nice mind game.....(eventhough I don't use 'em)

.........later