Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[ballin4life]

Shine jab is good at certain percents where you are about 5% away from the usmash kill percent. I throw it in during a fair combo then sometimes.

Also jab shine jab can be a good combo against floaties to rack up damage. It's an alternative to the repeated walking jabs.

 

[dandan]

at lower percrents won't it be better to shine dtilt and then chain a combo from there.
imo it is also easier to shine dtilt as you are already holding down, but maybe it is different for others.

 

[ballin4life]

It's really hard to shine dtilt floaties.

Also if I'm not mistaken in order to shine dtilt a character who is standing on the ground, you need to be next to a ledge.

 

[dandan]

you might be right about that, fox is probably the character i know least about, so i am not sure about that.
then if it is that more situational and jab can get you into problems how about shine ftilt, or even upwards ftilt to keep them in the air.

 

[ballin4life]

Shine ftilt works, but they have to be in the air, they can't be grounded.

 

[th3kuzinator]

did a shine jab today to continue a combo.

ON 5 FRAMES

 

[dandan]

Shine ftilt works, but they have to be in the air, they can't be grounded.

oh nice, didn't know it.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Shine ftilt works, but they have to be in the air, they can't be grounded.

LOL You're just slow then, I can do that **** grounded. And I can prove it if needed.

epeennecrobump

 

[ballin4life]

LOL You're just slow then, I can do that **** grounded. And I can prove it if needed.

epeennecrobump

lol.

on what character? and without being next to a ledge?

Grounded, without going off a ledge, I can do it on samus and luigi, but I don't think any of the heavier/less floaty characters will work because they hit the ground, whereas the lighter characters will fly too far away.

Going off a ledge you can do it on some of the non floaties

 

[rawrimamonster]

lol.

on what character? and without being next to a ledge?

Grounded, without going off a ledge, I can do it on samus and luigi, but I don't think any of the heavier/less floaty characters will work because they hit the ground, whereas the lighter characters will fly too far away.

Going off a ledge you can do it on some of the non floaties

I thought you meant inable to do it in general without them being aired first, which is only the case with shine usmashes (excluding DK because hes huge). I can get falcon im pretty sure before he touches the ground, the frame timing is very precise tho, like falcon sh double uairs. Thats as far as it goes.

 

[ballin4life]

I really don't think shine ftilt or even shine jab works on grounded falcon, unless you are next to a ledge.

 

[rawrimamonster]

I really don't think shine ftilt or even shine jab works on grounded falcon, unless you are next to a ledge.[/QUOeTE]

edit:NVM this **** my recorder is being gay, I'll try again later today after I talk to my friend about it, I cant figure out why its completely desynching sound and video and ****ing up the FPS. fraps, camstudio and hypercam are all doing it <_>...

 

[blaze3927]

quick question:
Fox's laser
with other projectiles you can succesfully defend yourself with a jab or an arial that has a large enough hitbox to deny the projectile getting your hurtbox.
is it possible to jab block fox's laser, and on the same lines can you reflect fox's laser with ness' bat?

 

[The Star King]

No, you can't block Fox's laser with an attack. Yes, you can reflect it with Ness's bat.

 

[Sempiternity]

Why can't the lasers be blocked?

 

[ballin4life]

uh ... that's just the way it is

 

[asianaussie]

I would guess it's in a different category of projectile in terms of plane. It was shown in the hitbox thread some moves went into different planes, so I would guess that it bypasses conventional priority, while some moves and shields are able to reach into this particular plane.

Just a hypothesis, not even a theory :\

 

[blaze3927]

odd indeed. i guess thats why when you have two foxes facing eah other shooting lasers they just go right through each other.

 

[Blade689]

its not that strange. Samus's bombs are the same way just a vertical attack.

 

[blaze3927]

can ness' bat hit samus bombs then?

 

[th3kuzinator]

No. Also it says somewhere on smash wiki that lazers are in its own class of projectile. I have no idea about any of the physics behind it, but the projectile was certainly made to be distinct from other ones.

 

[Sempiternity]

uh ... that's just the way it is

Great! Thanks!

So, technically speaking, the laser has the highest priority in the game?

 

[ballin4life]

Well if you want to say that wouldn't it be the shine then? Or ness's bat?

 

[asianaussie]

The shine's first frame or so*

Or hyrule's tornadoes

 

[Sempiternity]

Okay, ignoring moves that reflect, since they don't reflect back non-projectiles.

Can the laser interrupt any movement/attack in the game?

Barring the ones that are specifically tailored to deal with it.

Nothing worse than getting shot at the beginning of your double jump when recovering.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I feel there is a certain point during moves where lasers just pass through the opponent. Ie a falcon doing running sh aerials at you never gets hit. At other times they seem to cut off smashes and aerials nicely, no one has really actually done the research and figured out if there are different planes the character enters into which enable them to dodge lasers.

 

[The Star King]

Yes they have.

Ex: You can dodge lasers with DK's taunt because of his upper body moving into a different plane.

I think dch posted about it somewhere.

 

[asianaussie]

i recall him saying something about it in the hitbox thread

i always thought it had something to do with the base model used for the animation, but that plane explanation would make sense, given fireballs will still hit his actual body (fireballs must be more rounded in 3D terms).

 

[th3kuzinator]

No i think DK's taunt changes his character model hitbox but there are other instances where the plane theory comes into play.

I have heard that when falcon does high angle ftilts, even fireballs pass through his standing leg. I have not tested this though.

 

[The Star King]

No i think DK's taunt changes his character model hitbox but there are other instances where the plane theory comes into play.

It doesn't. I remember a screenshot of the hitbox for DK's taunt, he moves his upper body back and out of the usual plane, kind of like a sidestep lol

 

[th3kuzinator]

mass updated the guide.

Obviously still working on it, so stay tuned.

For what I have currently done, does everyone like this format? Is it readable, understandable etc?

No actual data critiques until its finished please. After that, go nuts

 

[asianaussie]

Seems fine.

I'll probably throw more format-orientated comments when the guide is further fleshed out.

 

[Sempiternity]

Wow, this is really pretty. I might pick up Fox just because it's so dazzling.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Nothing worse than getting shot at the beginning of your double jump when recovering.

Not in that case, unless you make your character do an specific move that puts the hitbox out of the laser's range.

 

[th3kuzinator]

finished up the moveset analysis

Now I am going to start working on some more of the advanced techniques section for the next update (sometimes next week probably)

would appreciate some criticism on the first 3 sections. Info, grammar or format corrections would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[asianaussie]

Various nitpicks:

Explicitly link Fox's falling speed to his tendency to get juggled.
Label the laser as 'unique' rather than 'invincible'.
Elaborate on the shine's knockback as 'character specific': I would instead say that it depends on each characters' physics and attributes.
Mention that the chun-li kick can be continued by mashing A
Mention the dash attack's incredibly mediocre 'priority'.
Note F-Tilt's use as a pseudo-jab and low-angled F-Tilt's set knockback (nowhere else to put it imo)
Mention B-Air's ability to function like F-Air due to small forwards hitbox - this can also be used in techchasing due to Fox's decent air speed
Mention other ways to activate weak U-Air (move away from the enemy as you U-Air, etc)

other nitpicking might be done later, i'm tired lol

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hey kuz, here's some of my gripes.

I use ftilt after a couple of jabs sometimes, you can SOMETIMES chain it with a well placed dair.

also, you if angle your ftilt, it can be quite useful, depending on your situation, wheter it be getting some breathing room or just mixing up your playstyle.
edit: just saw cheeseball's 'pseudo' gripe, so, yeah.

also, try adding a 'combo' section for fox.

relating to that, fox's dtilt can be used twice in one setting if your opponent doesn't tech it.

also, try talking about the lesser important stuff in a small section, tidbits, if you will.
i.e stage stratigies for fox

fox (as we all know) ***** too much at hyrule.

well, that's it for me, looks great so far man, keep it up.

 

[ciaza]

I know you can chain ftilt>upsmash on lighter characters like mario at the right percents. Doable in matches too, hell probably even more versatile if you can teleport upsmash. Spaced right it can also be a **** block for some incoming aerial attacks.

 

[SheerMadness]

I find the best way to play fox is to laser then immediately grab.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

With all the things that can be done after a laser, why would you limit yourself to just a grab which leads to nothing if there's not a wall or something?

If you can immediately grab, is because you are close enough to jab, SH-dair, SH-uair, dtilt, etc... which could be the beginning of a combo or even leading to 0% to Death....