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Fox, Falco and Wolf = Mario, Luigi and Dr. Mario

Mirai

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
12
Location
Australia
I'm just curious about the hype leading up to Melee.

When it was revealed that we had Mario, Luigi and Dr. Mario, was there as much complaining as there has been for Fox, Falco and Wolf? As far as I can tell, it is pretty much exactly the same situation...

Mario is cloned... So we get Luigi... Luigi is changed... Mario is cloned again...

Fox is cloned... So we get Falco... Falco is changed... Fox is cloned again...

Just wondered if anyone else sees the similarities?
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Only diference is that Falco is luigified and Wolf's not a clone.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
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May 12, 2007
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I gues you haven't seen the video where he appears in the Warioware stage. Go to the Wolf sub-forum and learn.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Then thei're insane or Blind and must be judged by the eternal cleansing flames. Throw them at the fire and let the flames judge them. If they survive then thei're innocent if not? Well... too bad.
 

Fatmanonice

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Fatmanonice
I gues you haven't seen the video where he appears in the Warioware stage. Go to the Wolf sub-forum and learn.
Actually, I have several of the videos containing Wolf and he's definately not an original character if that's what you're trying to convince me of. He's like what Ganondorf is to Captain Falcon, a few move differences and the attacks that are the same have slightly different effects. ZOMG, dA oRiGiNaLiTy!
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Ok... yeah right. Whatever you say, he is not a clone. And since your sig has 3 characters that didn't make it to the game, i bet you're pissed off. So whatever, i don't care what you have to say, you're biased against wolf.
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
Actually, I have several of the videos containing Wolf and he's definately not an original character if that's what you're trying to convince me of. He's like what Ganondorf is to Captain Falcon, a few move differences and the attacks that are the same have slightly different effects. ZOMG, dA oRiGiNaLiTy!
Oh..My....GOD?

Like C.Falcon is to Ganondorf??

....

eheheheheheheahahahahaaahahahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

I'll just leave it at that.
 
Joined
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Neither or them are clones. Falco has a share of new moves, and from what we have seen, the moves tha he has executed were limited, meaning that it's pottible for him to have new tilts as well. Wolf...i can completely agree that he isn't a clone. His ridiculously fast movements make him look like a fun character addition.
 

Fatmanonice

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Ok... yeah right. Whatever you say, he is not a clone. And since your sig has 3 characters that didn't make it to the game, i bet you're pissed off. So whatever, i don't care what you have to say, you're biased against wolf.
Or you're blind to the fact that's how it really is. Same B attacks, same final smash, very similar aerial attacks, and the same smash attacks.
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
UP B ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: fire fox. A charge followed by a flaming dash in the air.

Wolf: seems like a jetpack. NO CHARGE, just a sudden blast in any direction. This is comparable in difference to Luigi's up B and Mario's. Similar, yet different.

B ATTACK
----------------
Fox: blaster. It fires lasers at rapid speed. The lasers are thin and red and travel very fast.

Wolf: TOTALLY different animation. The lasers are nothing like Fox's. In fact, this move is more like Zero Suit Samus's stun gun. This move is actually not a copy of Fox's blaster at all. The animation is different, the effect is very different. This is a new move.

SIDE B ATTACK
---------------
Fox: Fox illusion. A speedy horizontal dash.

Wolf: Has a similar move, except it goes at a slight 25degree angle. This is indeed a "cloned" move.

DOWN B ATTACK
-------------------
Fox: reflector. It's blue and hexagonal. Hits opponents away.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Red and has blades that fan out on either side. This probably has much greater offensive power, yet nobody has managed to land it at close range yet. Seems unique enough to be considered a new move.

FORWARD SMASH ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: a leaping heel kick in Tae Kwon Do style. Moves Fox forward a bit.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. A lunging palm strike that covers a great deal of horizontal difference and has substantial lag afterwards, yet starts quickly. This is a totally new move, and is like a cross between Captain Falcon's Fsmash and the illusion move.

UP SMASH ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: flip kick. Covers a semi-circle above Fox's head starting in front of him.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. A jumping upside-down dropkick in the Capoera style that hits above him in a single motion, covering a lot more range above him and slightly to the side as his legs spin into position. Once again, massive range and is a totally unique move.

DOWN SMASH ATTACK
------------------
Fox: a split kick that hits on either side of Fox equally. Fast with lag.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Wolf swipes low with his claws, hitting in front of him first and then behind. A unique move that's similar in element to Link's down smash.

FORWARD TILT ATTACK
------------------------
Fox: does a quick roundhouse kick in front of him in Tae Kwon Do style.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Wolf claws at the opponent with a swing of his arm. Lots of lag and it seems almost like a smash attack in its speed and power. Once again...a unique move.

-----------------------
And that's all we've seen of Wolf as of yet, however, it's clear that he's not nearly worthy of the same "clone" title as people have been giving him just because of his red landmaster. If you're going to complain about Starfox clones, go whine about Falco. NOT WOLF. credit to some gamefaqs dude
 

pika-power

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
114
4 characters that he wanted that did not get in by my count. Geno, Megaman, Ridley, and Vaati. (well, ridley is SSE)
 

Fatmanonice

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Thanks for proving my point. Wolf is to Fox as Luigi is to Mario and Ganondorf is to Captain Falcon. Different animations and effects for what are mechanically the same attacks with a few original moves thrown in.

*add in* Why does my sig matter? Prejudice much?
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
Thanks for proving my point. Wolf is to Fox as Luigi is to Mario and Ganondorf is to Captain Falcon. Different animations and effects for what are mechanically the same attacks with a few original moves thrown in.

*add in* Why does my sig matter? Prejudice much?
Yeah ok whatever, I'm following Shuma, you're just biased and blind..

I actually believe you are trolling, Saying that having a DIFFERENT animation, and DIFFERENT effects= same smash attack..

Just take downsmash....

A Link like claw sweep, how on EARTH does that compare to Fox's split?

Awnser: It doesnt.

I am right, you are wrong.
 

Fatmanonice

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Yeah ok whatever, I'm following Shuma, you're just biased and blind..

I actually believe you are trolling, Saying that having a DIFFERENT animation, and DIFFERENT effects= same smash attack..

Just take downsmash....

A Link like claw sweep, how on EARTH does that compare to Fox's split?

Awnser: It doesnt.

I am right, you are wrong.
Look who's calling the kettle black. Also, there's more to attacks then the animations, there's also the directional influence, speed, power, knockback, lag, etc. Your arguement that Wolf is a completely original character is what's wrong in this matter. Study up on the similarities between Mario and Luigi and come back to me.
 

Rick88

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
422
Location
South Gate, CA
Pretty much the same scenario. People can try to justify how Falco or Wolf are different from Fox. In the end, they're pretty much "Luigified".
 

Top Prospect

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
84
Location
Based in Chicago; straight outta the Twinkie Barge
Shuma!! Always good to see the guy that pimps that idiot, Frogger! As far as this topic goes, I just saw the footage for the first time, and I truly thought that I was gonna see Wolf as a clone. I was also hoping that I wouldn't, and I got to see more of the latter. It's hard to call a character a clone when said character (Wolf) has ONLY 1 or 2 moves that are even close to the original's (Fox). I'm gonna go ahead to say that in my opinion, Wolf O'Donnell is NOT a clone.
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
I just ran across this again, and I just wanted to tell you how much you reminded me of Iori Yagami of the King of Fighters franchise...one of my fave win poses...one of the best ever.
I stole that from him actually, I love how mentally unstablethe guy is:p
 

RedrappeR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
294
Exactly. They're not completely unique and thus still fall in the category of clone or, more specifically in this case, semi-clone.
Calling Luigi a clone of Mario is like calling Ken a clone of Ryu. Which isn't true. Study up and get back to me.
 

zPhoenixExz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
33
Location
Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada
By these people's logic....

Marth is a luigified version of Link...They both have a semi-lunar uptilt.
Ike is a luigified version of link....both final smash involve rushing opponent and doing swords hit, with "slightly" different animation.
Mario and Sonic are luigified....same style down smash, back air is a drop kick, up smash is headbutt.
Zelda is luigified version of peach....same dash attack with different stat.
DeDeDe and Ice climber both use hammer....luigified.
Kirby is a luigified version of jigglypuff...slightly different down air, slightly different forward smash.
Bowser is a luigified version of charizard cuz they blows flame.
Pikachu/peach/bowser is luigifield because they all spin for their down smash?

I happen to recall A LOT of characters with down smash involving sticking out something in front then back. A LOT of characters has a forward smash involving just a punching thrust. A lot of flip kick upsmash....

I can go on and on...
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
By these people's logic....

Marth is a luigified version of Link...They both have a semi-lunar uptilt.
Ike is a luigified version of link....both final smash involve rushing opponent and doing swords hit, with "slightly" different animation.
Mario and Sonic are luigified....same style down smash, back air is a drop kick, up smash is headbutt.
Zelda is luigified version of peach....same dash attack with different stat.
DeDeDe and Ice climber both use hammer....luigified.
Kirby is a luigified version of jigglypuff...slightly different down air, slightly different forward smash.
Bowser is a luigified version of charizard cuz they blows flame.
Pikachu/peach/bowser is luigifield because they all spin for their down smash?

I happen to recall A LOT of characters with down smash involving sticking out something in front then back. A LOT of characters has a forward smash involving just a punching thrust. A lot of flip kick upsmash....

I can go on and on...
Logic wont reach them unfortunatley...

They're too blinded with bias and rage...
 

RedrappeR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
294
It was true in the first couple of Street Fighter's...but that's for another forum.
Yeah. But afterwards they corrected it.

If you play Ken and Ryu the same way in 3rd Strike you're going to get dominated. Their Fireballs have different uses, they're Shoryuken's are completely different, and their hurricane kicks are used for separate purposes.


That's kind of what I compare this Fox, Falco, Wolf situation to. They're exactly that... with Wolf being the Akuma, Fox being the Ryu, and Falco being the Ken. It's kind of like Melee was the first SF's where they were exactly that... Clones. And subsequently they were changed.
 

sultanofsurreal

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
40
By these people's logic....

Marth is a luigified version of Link...They both have a semi-lunar uptilt.
Ike is a luigified version of link....both final smash involve rushing opponent and doing swords hit, with "slightly" different animation.
Mario and Sonic are luigified....same style down smash, back air is a drop kick, up smash is headbutt.
Zelda is luigified version of peach....same dash attack with different stat.
DeDeDe and Ice climber both use hammer....luigified.
Kirby is a luigified version of jigglypuff...slightly different down air, slightly different forward smash.
Bowser is a luigified version of charizard cuz they blows flame.
Pikachu/peach/bowser is luigifield because they all spin for their down smash?

I happen to recall A LOT of characters with down smash involving sticking out something in front then back. A LOT of characters has a forward smash involving just a punching thrust. A lot of flip kick upsmash....

I can go on and on...
Holy ****. That means... that means EVERY character in Brawl is a clone.

If every character is a clone, then every character is equally good.

That means... that means that tires really don exits!
 

CHAOSDRAGON88

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
848
Location
New York city
Can we just wait for the game to come out in our respective countries. Mario and luigi have similar moves but that doesnt make em clones. Characters that are from the same universe are expected to have similar moves.
 

Top Prospect

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
84
Location
Based in Chicago; straight outta the Twinkie Barge
I happen to recall A LOT of characters with down smash involving sticking out something in front then back. A LOT of characters has a forward smash involving just a punching thrust. A lot of flip kick upsmash....

I can go on and on...
Though the rest was slathered on like oh so much mayonnaise, great point. Plenty of completely different characters throughout the Smash franchise have had similar moves and movement (uh-oh, I just Luigified the word 'move'!). It does not mean that they were all cloned from each other.
 

turboether

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
37
By these people's logic....

Marth is a luigified version of Link...They both have a semi-lunar uptilt.
Ike is a luigified version of link....both final smash involve rushing opponent and doing swords hit, with "slightly" different animation.
Mario and Sonic are luigified....same style down smash, back air is a drop kick, up smash is headbutt.
Zelda is luigified version of peach....same dash attack with different stat.
DeDeDe and Ice climber both use hammer....luigified.
Kirby is a luigified version of jigglypuff...slightly different down air, slightly different forward smash.
Bowser is a luigified version of charizard cuz they blows flame.
Pikachu/peach/bowser is luigifield because they all spin for their down smash?

I happen to recall A LOT of characters with down smash involving sticking out something in front then back. A LOT of characters has a forward smash involving just a punching thrust. A lot of flip kick upsmash....

I can go on and on...
you forgot that ike is a luigified kirby because they have the same upB ;P
 

Top Prospect

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
84
Location
Based in Chicago; straight outta the Twinkie Barge
Holy ****. That means... that means EVERY character in Brawl is a clone.

If every character is a clone, then every character is equally good.

That means... that means that tires really don exits!
"Tiers"...and HOLY CLIMACTIC CLASH YOU'RE RIGHT!!!...

...forgive me. When I laugh, I like to keep laughing. That, and I have issues.
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
you forgot that ike is a luigified kirby because they have the same upB ;P
HOLY CRAP!!!

Thats so true!!

Omg SAKURAIAIAIA WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH

Also...Snake throws grenades....yeh, more like Bombs...

OMG Link clone..

Oh and Pit, also a Link clone....he uses a bow and arrow....and OMG a reflector? Fox clone.....obviously..
 
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