Forever Hopeful (Patch 1.1.5 notes)

[Shadow Keebey]

Apparently Sakurai thinks all Kirby needs to beat Top Tiers is to hit people with Smash Attacks and Hammers.

But Hammer and Stone are the best (read: most OP) abilities.
In the Kirby games.
In Smash, well, Hammer is plain useless outside of SUPER hard reads & punishes, and Stone, although more useful, is still pretty weak in terms of being good.
And then Smash was taken into Kirby:

To actually buff those moves in a way which would make them usable, the frame data would have to be much better.

 

[t!MmY]

But Hammer and Stone are the best (read: most OP) abilities.
In the Kirby games.

Ha, ha! True, so very true!

To actually buff those moves in a way which would make them usable, the frame data would have to be much better.

Faster start-up or a quicker recovery lag on Stone & Hammer would definitely make them useable, but I've thought of other ways of making them useable without simply speeding them up. Hammer could be given a larger hitbox and more Active Frames to ensure actually hitting with it. Stone could be given Super Armor halfway through start-up animation so it can be used as a counter-attack.

Giving Aerial Hammer horizontal momentum like it had in Brawl would be great because it could be used to get back to the stage. I'm guessing they took that away in Smash 4 because they felt that Kirby had 5 jumps and shouldn't have any better of a recovery... for some reason. (he sorta does need a better recovery since he's so slow in the air).

 

[Shadow Keebey]

Ha, ha! True, so very true!

Faster start-up or a quicker recovery lag on Stone & Hammer would definitely make them useable, but I've thought of other ways of making them useable without simply speeding them up. Hammer could be given a larger hitbox and more Active Frames to ensure actually hitting with it. Stone could be given Super Armor halfway through start-up animation so it can be used as a counter-attack.

Giving Aerial Hammer horizontal momentum like it had in Brawl would be great because it could be used to get back to the stage. I'm guessing they took that away in Smash 4 because they felt that Kirby had 5 jumps and shouldn't have any better of a recovery... for some reason. (he sorta does need a better recovery since he's so slow in the air).

Ahh... the amount of times I have been hit out of a transforming Stone... hmm...
Now I'm thinking of the good customs Kirby has. We have Upper Cutter. Improves recovery, a good OoS option, another kill move and can combo out of F-throw (at least, I think so). Grounding Stone... that's... quite good? It does have that longer start up, but it does have better reward if landed (you bury the opponent) and less endlag. Hammer Bash is better than regular Hammer, is it not? That I'm uncertain on.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Fingers still crossed that some time in the near future Kirby receives frame data and air speed buffs. Not necessarily the Samus treatment but still something significant.

 

[Shadow Keebey]

Fingers still crossed that some time in the near future Kirby receives frame data and air speed buffs. Not necessarily the Samus treatment but still something significant.

FC frame data should be top priority if any frame data buffs are to happen.
Air speed buff is #1 priority for Kirby in general. At least 0.85. Sure, it's not much, but it's also realistic.

 

[TimG57867]

I feel you guys. Well, Kirby's changes were modest this time and last time so perhaps if his performance doesn't skyrocket over the next month or two (and I'm pretty sure it won't unlike MikeKirby goes ham lol) perhaps they'll begin considering adjusting things besides knockback on his moves. I don't think they've touched his frame data since they buffed Inhale and the (still trash) hammer back in 1.10.

 

[Shadow Keebey]

I don't think they've touched his frame data since they buffed Inhale and the (still trash) hammer back in 1.10.

When was Hammer not trash?

 

[TimG57867]

When was Hammer not trash?

I meant that it's STILL trash even now so their efforts to make it good when they could have been buffing other moves have been pointless.

 

[Shadow Keebey]

I meant that it's STILL trash even now so their efforts to make it good when they could have been buffing other moves have been pointless.

Apparently, making something good = improving KBG (according to the balancing team). Yes, admittedly, it did work with Up-Throw, but that is because it was so close to being useful before the buff.

 

[TimG57867]

Apparently, making something good = improving KBG (according to the balancing team). Yes, admittedly, it did work with Up-Throw, but that is because it was so close to being useful before the buff.

Not mention, it was the one case where knockback actually WAS the problem. Hammer can kill midweights on the ledge at like 25%. Knockback is NOT its issue. If they really want to make it good move, they should cut the end lag down to be similar to 's Flare Blade so that it can be used for mind games and mixups while still giving your foe ample time to react while at the same time not making Kirby prime to eat the hardest of punishes if he whiffs.

 

[FreeGamer]

When was Hammer not trash?

Brawl and PM.

 

[DblCrest]

Damn I loved that move in Brawl/Pm so much I actually felt bad for hitting people with it XD

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Hammer felt super satisfying in Brawl either off stage or on it was great