Follow-up for Grab -> ground release

[GSM_Dren]

Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone has any idea to the mechanics behind ground release vs air release from a grab? Like, how do I know whether my opponent will release via ground or air? I probably should ask this in the general competitive section, but I made it here since yoshi has a solid option after having the opponent ground release from a grab.

From doing a grab and pummeling a few times, if the opponent ground releases, you are able to 1-2 jab and then follow with a dash attack OR Fair for an easy ~11-30%.

If I knew the mechanics behind ground vs air release, it'd be easier following through with the above combo. I've tried searching the forums, but to no avail, hopefully you guys can provide insight. Thanks!

Edit: Added 2 youtube vids to demonstrate this:
http://youtu.be/P6cC_BuiYVc Ness 24%->45% (with Dash attack followup)
http://youtu.be/KfKbUROCyC8 Bowser Jr. 0-Death (17%->48% with Fair followup)

 

[WECsoul]

I guess the opponent gets ground released after being pummeled and air released without being pummeled. If I remember correctly, it is mentioned by "My Smash Corner" in his youtube video about G&W's dthrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZWhLNl7kM4&list=PLQlmHuaaZobJUEHBEYG4ENOvrnN5FstuR

 

[GSM_Dren]

That's what I was trying to figure out as well but it doesn't seem to be the case whether pummeled or not. I checked out the vid but it wasn't mentioned. Anyone have any idea about it?

 

[Sharky]

It's not just after being pummeled, they have to break out *while* being pummeled in order to ground release.

 

[GSM_Dren]

It's not just after being pummeled, they have to break out *while* being pummeled in order to ground release.

Huh is that so? I guess that means pummel spamming would be the way to go, thanks!

 

[Tidycats29]

i been trying to figure this out for awhile now good question
so they have to break out while being pummeled and its a ground release?

 

[GSM_Dren]

i been trying to figure this out for awhile now good question
so they have to break out while being pummeled and its a ground release?

Seems to be the case and I guess it would make sense. I find that I follow with a throw usually in the higher %s and keep the grounded grab release follow ups for lower %s. However, I do mix them up as well; most opponents learn to react more quickly after getting ground released so keep em on their toes.

 

[Omni]

Pause.
Ground release combos into jab?

 

[GSM_Dren]

Well not for all characters. A few characters I've found ground release too far (Yoshi) or can react quickly enough (ZSS's jab). This needs more testing against more characters, but I've mostly been able to complete this combo handily against friends.

 

[Omni]

I don't mean range-wise.

I'm just wondering if the grab release to jab is a TRUE combo or if the opponent can shield the jab after the release. Similar to Bowser's grab to double jab in Brawl.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Definitely not, I would say it likely depends on reaction time of the opponent. Yoshi's jab is pretty quick enough to stop any offense, but I've also found that if they are fast, they can shield and roll away or put in a jab of their own (ZSS). It catches people of guard because they expect to be thrown.

 

[Omni]

A'ight. Just makin' sure. It's a good mix-up tho since the first hit of jab is amazing on hit and not too awful on shield.

 

[Delta-cod]

Definitely not, I would say it likely depends on reaction time of the opponent. Yoshi's jab is pretty quick enough to stop any offense, but I've also found that if they are fast, they can shield and roll away or put in a jab of their own (ZSS). It catches people of guard because they expect to be thrown.

I don't think reaction time is really involved here. Unless I've missed something, you can still buffer shield by holding down a shield button, so they can just hold down shield after a grab break.

Do you mean reacting to the break itself? I haven't experienced too many grab breaks myself, so I don't know the data on them. Are they much faster for both parties than they had been previously?

 

[Lukingordex]

Edit: Added 2 youtube vids to demonstrate this:
http://youtu.be/P6cC_BuiYVc Ness 24%->45% (with Dash attack followup)
http://youtu.be/KfKbUROCyC8 Bowser Jr. 0-Death (17%->48% with Fair followup)

In the first video, I think the Ness player could have used tech and escape that dash attack, and the Fair on the second video wasn't a true combo, the Bowser Jr. player used the double jump and this made your Fair hit him, if he just fast falled and used Up B he would grab the ledge and escape that Fair.

 

[GSM_Dren]

I don't think reaction time is really involved here. Unless I've missed something, you can still buffer shield by holding down a shield button, so they can just hold down shield after a grab break.

Do you mean reacting to the break itself? I haven't experienced too many grab breaks myself, so I don't know the data on them. Are they much faster for both parties than they had been previously?

I guess you would be right on the buffering shield part. Also I'm not too sure on grab break data.

In the first video, I think the Ness player could have used tech and escape that dash attack, and the Fair on the second video wasn't a true combo, the Bowser Jr. player used the double jump and this made your Fair hit him, if he just fast falled and used Up B he would grab the ledge and escape that Fair.

These are not true guaranteed combos, rather something you can use if your opponent ground releases from a grab. I've found success using this tactic, which is why I shared it with the board.

Edit: Also most people's reaction to being knocked away is to jump immediately, so I go and follow with a Fair more often than not

 

[Yokoblue]

Btw I tried on diddy and his jab come faster. I think Ness jab come faster as well because it usually do on neutral

 

[Lukingordex]

I did some testing and it DOES work because they rarely expect to be ground released by Yoshi. Most of the time, you can really get a lot from this since they get confused after being jabbed and give us the chance to hurt them really hard.

Just use it as a mix-up and it'll be a very strong tool that will hardly be expected.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Btw I tried on diddy and his jab come faster. I think Ness jab come faster as well because it usually do on neutral

I did some testing and it DOES work because they rarely expect to be ground released by Yoshi. Most of the time, you can really get a lot from this since they get confused after being jabbed and give us the chance to hurt them really hard.

Just use it as a mix-up and it'll be a very strong tool that will hardly be expected.

Yep, once your opponent figures out how to counter, it becomes less effective. That's why mixing it up with throws is a great idea.

 

[Omni]

I did some testing and it DOES work because they rarely expect to be ground released by Yoshi. Most of the time, you can really get a lot from this since they get confused after being jabbed and give us the chance to hurt them really hard.

Just use it as a mix-up and it'll be a very strong tool that will hardly be expected.

Giving up about 8-9% for a mix-up. I guess this would be good at high %'s if you're aiming for a kill setup.

 

[KayJay]

 

[GSM_Dren]

Nice work KayJay! ^^