Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[BarDulL]

Proper play was to not hammer.

Unfortunately, I've been HBC'd enough here to almost think otherwise.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Soup, care to sum up your reads for me? Who's the play? Have you been using your vote at all so far?

Right now I wanna say Macman, Bardull and soup are non-plays for toDay with the latter leaning closer towards null than the other two.

The rest of the slots I'm honestly not too sure about, there's a lot of people fluctuation between null and scummy depending on how I feel. I think Bardull's points on Vult and Zen both have merit and I'm willing to consider them but at the same time both slots have given us quite an amont of input to work with and I don't know how I should weigh off these two factors to come to a conclusion that feels satisfactory to me.

Maven and Ryu on the other hand have made posts that I think are mostly on point and certainly pro-town enough to keep them around but at the same time both slots have been very sparse with their input which in town!Ryu's case would be quite uncharacteristic. But Maven's kind of a good player and I wouldn't put it beyond him to just do whatever little is necessary to cruise along safely as scum either. I don't think I'd actively push for a lynch against either of them but I'd likely compromise if the situation requires it.

Then there's Ryker ... whom I'm willing to lynch? Dunno what else I wanna say here. Zen, and possibly others, have said they have a town lean on him but I don't know how or why that happened. I can't give Ryker pro-town credit for anything so far.

 

[Xivii]

Things that we could use before EoD:

• soups reads
• Vults take on soup
• Mac and Ryu's response to Vult
• Ryu's current take on Bardull, Ryker, and Maven
• Anything from Maven and lynch preferences if they've changed.
• Soups, Ryu's, and Vult's lynch candidates.

Current lynch options from what I can interpret:

Gheb: Ryker >>> Maven, Ryu >> Zen/Vult
Mac: Ryker >>>>> Maven, Ryu, soup

Ryker: Maven, soup, Ruy
Zen: Maven, Bardull

Bardull: Zen, Vult
Maven: Zen, Mac

Ryu: ???
soup: ???
Vult: ???

 

[BarDulL]

#HBC | Red Ryu I haven't talked to you this game yet, what's your game plan thus far? Do you have a general read list out there at this point?

I don't trust Vult as far as I can throw him, but I don't think he's a play toDay.

Vote: Zen

 

[#HBC | Mac]

bardull, i doubt zen or vult is a play today. anyone else you'd be willing to vote?

and sorry guys i've been holding off on giving my opinions on certain slots until i get a chance to reread. I should be able to do so within a few hours

 

[BarDulL]

I don't think a Zen lynch is implausible and would honestly be my preferred route, and I think it would definitely tell us more about the rest of the roster.

I'm a little concerned about Red Ruy for meta reasons even though I generally like his content, but I recognize that it has been a while since I played with him. Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but he seems almost absent in terms of his presence this game.

In a worst case scenario, I'd compromise to Ryker, although I'm still juggling his content and can't justify a strong scum read.

 

[BarDulL]

As an aside, that's the second time you've interacted with me in regards to Zen, Mac. I don't think Maven is selling bad content in that regard.

What makes you feel so strongly about Zen?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I just don't see support in thread for a Zen lynch

what was the first time? when i asked you about taking things personally? that wasn't only in reference to Zen it was also because of your interaction with soup (which fwiw I still think it's weird that even if soup was coming at you personally, that that would prevent you from trying to scumread his slot)

 

[Vult Redux]

Vults take on soup

I'm going to read him sometime today. He's the last player I don't have an opinion on.

In any case I'd really like yo to rethink your Ryu read. I saw you've had him as town for a while but I want you to re-review and see if your opinion changes.

Ryu > Mac are my preferences.

Maven is a second choice and Soup idk yet.

I'm not going to vote against Gheb* or Zen or Ryker.

I'm leaning town on Bardull but he's actively working against me soooo i would rather have him dead than a no lynch.

*even though gheb said bardull's points are good?? i'm a little bit offended honestly. maybe he didn't read them carefully?? gheb plz

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Zen lynch is not impossible.

Bardull and Maven both support his lynch and there may be enough support between soup, Vult and Ryu to get him another two votes, which puts Zen at -1. In which case I would definitely hammer. It's possible. Is it good though? Definitely not my prefered course of action.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ryu > Mac are my preferences.

Maven is a second choice and Soup idk yet.

I'm not going to vote against Gheb* or Zen or Ryker.

Explain, like, all of this.

Why is Ruy your scummiest read and why is Macman in consideration for a lynch to you?
You're not going to vote for Ryker? But at the same time you think Maven is a "second choice" for a lynch? How does this make sense?
You also say Zen is a no-go toDay. Why is that the case again? When has he done anything that you can confidently call pro-town enough to exclude him from toDay's lynchpool?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Reading up.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Soup, care to sum up your reads for me? Who's the play? Have you been using your vote at all so far?

Right now I wanna say Macman, Bardull and soup are non-plays for toDay with the latter leaning closer towards null than the other two.

The rest of the slots I'm honestly not too sure about, there's a lot of people fluctuation between null and scummy depending on how I feel. I think Bardull's points on Vult and Zen both have merit and I'm willing to consider them but at the same time both slots have given us quite an amont of input to work with and I don't know how I should weigh off these two factors to come to a conclusion that feels satisfactory to me.

Maven and Ryu on the other hand have made posts that I think are mostly on point and certainly pro-town enough to keep them around but at the same time both slots have been very sparse with their input which in town!Ryu's case would be quite uncharacteristic. But Maven's kind of a good player and I wouldn't put it beyond him to just do whatever little is necessary to cruise along safely as scum either. I don't think I'd actively push for a lynch against either of them but I'd likely compromise if the situation requires it.

Then there's Ryker ... whom I'm willing to lynch? Dunno what else I wanna say here. Zen, and possibly others, have said they have a town lean on him but I don't know how or why that happened. I can't give Ryker pro-town credit for anything so far.

This is the tenth or so game people have mentioned this about me and it needs to be put to rest.

My input overall in games is a lot lower and more random due to having a 40hr a week job, going to tournaments every weekend and other stuff I work on.

This meta with my activity needs to be rethought by DGames in general.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

sorry to be annoying but I reread Ryu specifically earlier today after noticing that an interaction between him and Mac looked staged (I'm referring to their #225-#227) and Ryu jumped out to me as a scumread. Which is why I've been trying to get people to talk about him.

(In retrospect I'm not convinced their interaction was staged; it doesn't feel natural but I'm not going to push it further nor use it as a reason to lynch somebody).

I think it's more interesting that Mac magically forgot what initially bothered him about Ryu as soon as I questioned him about it. (Did he know my followup post was gonna be "okay, we have the votes to lynch ryu I'm expecting you on the wagon"? hmmmmm <__<)

I noticed Zen is the only player to back up a townread on Ryu. Others have just been like... going along with it. (Maven stands out)

the short version of what bothers me about him is that he hasn't been scumhunting. I'm too sleepy to say more but I just wanted to bring it up so Zen can call me a loonie and we can move on so that people can comment now. Honestly, just look at his last few posts. It's kind of ridiculous that someone hasn't brought up his passiveness yet.



sorry if this isn't coherent i'm bad at mafia especially at night

You really think while I was at work I was also talking to Mac and decided to do a "whoops we messed up names to look townies gimmick? You seem to be implying here that I did stage this interaction as a possibility. Why?

Though to be fair I don't recall at this second why he was bothered with me and would be interested in seeing why Mac had issues with me before if he did.

I've been asking a lot of questions and looking into why I have been bothered by players.

I wanted Gheb dead early into the day and stopped when he specifically called me out and I backed off on it when I thought about his interactions and maybe if I was giving Zen more credit than I should have.

I've done fine with scum hunting, I haven't been pushing hard go ham gettem lynched Ruy like I have in the past but that's really more so the fact I tend to second guess myself a lot these days and figure out why I stand where I do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh yeah, almost forgot about this; current read list:

People who I think should live:

Maven
Red Ruy
Mac

Null:

Gheb
Ryker
Soup

People who I think should die:

Zen
Vult

Why Vult?

 

[BarDulL]

#HBC | Mac

I think a Zen lynch is totally doable, and want to hear more about your read on him.

I didn't say anything about not scumreading Soup's slot. The thing is, it's harder for me to read into someone's intent when they are making things personal. It's not just a matter of whether or not he's scumgoggling slots or town misreading, etc., it's now additionally a matter of trying to read into personal motivations for why he's being a butt, as opposed to strictly in-game interpersonal relations, which is a waste of my time really.

Why Vult?

I...I wrote such a big post on it just before the post you quoted. ;_;

 

[BarDulL]

I'm leaning town on Bardull but he's actively working against me soooo i would rather have him dead than a no lynch.

What.

Everyone's different, but if I'm reading someone as Town, even if they want me dead, I wouldn't try to get them lynched to solve the problem.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

my read on Zen is mostly gut, he just feels like town Zen based on how off the cuff his posts had felt. I also just recently reread a game Zen was in, and in that game he did more holding back which isn't what he seems to be doing here.

Though I did think Gheb had a point last night (this morning) about how Zen shouldn't get credit for taking stances willy nilly. I could see scumZen doing that D1 and then being more reactionary the rest of the game. So my read isn't as strong as it once was. btw @Xiivi i had a question for you

In other news, I also think Zen has a point about Bardull's disappearance which is weird given that he dipped as soon as his wagon started to die down. I still think this slot is town though mostly because my gut reaction to Rykers first post was the same as his and if he hadn't brought that up I 100% would have.

BarDulL i go into my zen read a bit here

we have 4 hours till deadline, i'm going to begin my readthrough now

 

[BarDulL]

Deadline is tomorrow in like 28-31 hours depending on time zone

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh wait really

word i can keep coasting

 

[Xivii]

In any case I'd really like yo to rethink your Ryu read. I saw you've had him as town for a while but I want you to re-review and see if your opinion changes.

Just did an ISO and an ISO of his past couple of games. I still have him as town. #138 through #149 are easy-going town to me. He has no flake. He's usually more aggressive, yes, but everyone has variations in their play and I don't think that this difference in meta is alignment indicative.

Look at his posts again, especially his reads posts in #145, and tell me: do you no think every thing he has said to be solid? I think this is the best indication of his alignment. Even if you don't agree with his reads, you can still follow them seamlessly. This shows to me that he is actually working through things in his mind when he reads through.

Lastly, I really don't feel scum Ryu would make the claim that his Gheb push was a joke a few posts before staying on the wagon for legitimate reasons. He would have been on the forefront of the wagon, which could have looked contradictory and bad for him on a Gheb town flip. I think this shows a town's lack of thought towards public relations. Where as scum Ruy would have had an opportune moment to get ahead of the fallout and make himself look townie.

Lastly lastly, because of the setup, I think it's a mistake to scum hunt based on awkward interactions D1. Ignoring that interaction with Mac, and considering the above, do you still think he's that scummy? I could definitely be wrong though. As Gheb said, on average I am incorrect more than I am correct. So my words are not of great value.

 

[Xivii]

Ryu, are you caught up? If so, who are you and who aren't you willing to lynch? Your answer is important for today's play.

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.8

Red Ryu:
Macman: Vult Redux
Gheb:
Ryker: Macman
Maven
Bardull
Xivii: Maven, Bardull
Soup: Ryker
Vult Redux

Not voting:
soup, Gheb, Ryu, Xivii

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
Fixed vote count error.

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is September 22, at 11:59 PM.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Things that we could use before EoD:

• soups reads
• Vults take on soup
• Mac and Ryu's response to Vult
• Ryu's current take on Bardull, Ryker, and Maven
• Anything from Maven and lynch preferences if they've changed.
• Soups, Ryu's, and Vult's lynch candidates.

Current lynch options from what I can interpret:

Gheb: Ryker >>> Maven, Ryu >> Zen/Vult
Mac: Ryker >>>>> Maven, Ryu, soup

Ryker: Maven, soup, Ruy
Zen: Maven, Bardull

Bardull: Zen, Vult
Maven: Zen, Mac

Ryu: ???
soup: ???
Vult: ???

Bardull I do not think has been really scummy with anything he has posted. You told me earlier that he had

Ryu, are you caught up? If so, who are you and who aren't you willing to lynch? Your answer is important for today's play.

Rereading Maven then I can answer this, will do it before I go to bed tonight.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

posted another post a bit early that mixed with that one, will expand on that in a bit.

 

[Vult Redux]

What.

Everyone's different, but if I'm reading someone as Town, even if they want me dead, I wouldn't try to get them lynched to solve the problem.

i'm not trying to lynch you

i literally said (you quoted it!!!) i would rather you dead over a no lynch. over a no lynch specifically. because a) no lynches are bad and b) you're not cooperating with me!! stop twisting this. i'm not trying to lynch you. i don't want you lynched. stop

 

[Vult Redux]

You really think while I was at work I was also talking to Mac and decided to do a "whoops we messed up names to look townies gimmick? You seem to be implying here that I did stage this interaction as a possibility. Why?

no!!! i don't think that! I literally and explicitly qualified that entire point by saying I don't believe it at this point!!! it was only my initial reaction and I only brought it up to explain why I ISOd you specifically

 

[Vult Redux]

honestly gheb is right to question the zen read i put up. my town!zen read is a little outdated; carried over from early game but he has said things to reinforce it! i just can't name exactly what offhand.

mac read is from his not good contributions esp. re: ryker

 

[Vult Redux]

my meltdown is over and i'm going to reread zen and soup

i h8 all of you tho

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Things that we could use before EoD:

• soups reads
• Vults take on soup
• Mac and Ryu's response to Vult
• Ryu's current take on Bardull, Ryker, and Maven
• Anything from Maven and lynch preferences if they've changed.
• Soups, Ryu's, and Vult's lynch candidates.

Current lynch options from what I can interpret:

Gheb: Ryker >>> Maven, Ryu >> Zen/Vult
Mac: Ryker >>>>> Maven, Ryu, soup

Ryker: Maven, soup, Ruy
Zen: Maven, Bardull

Bardull: Zen, Vult
Maven: Zen, Mac

Ryu: ???
soup: ???
Vult: ???

I do not like Bardull's reads at all, they are the complete opposite of mine and I question how much in game his dislike is over other personal issues. I'm not sold on lynching this slot though since I still think his thoughts are at least something that has some form of development and actual interest. I'm not interested in lynching the slot since early on it gave me the impression that he did genuinely seem frustrated from a town perspective.

Ryker, I need to level with you and say I don't like the slot still. He has given insight but in the end it never seems to be he has strong interest in the game when he does post and where he is trying to push. It's a lot of testing the waters it seems like and his directions seem to look at easier directions, which also doesn't help when he is ignoring some slots. Granted I have been reconsidering with what you said in regards to Ryker's inputs and Bardull's thoughts. Something to consider but I would lynch Ryker before Bardull.

Maven I'm not a huge fan of but iit's just there and I don't really have huge thoughts here from my reread other than, I don't like his direction or his tunnel.

Maven/Soup > Ryker > Gheb

For my order of lynches to endgame.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

no!!! i don't think that! I literally and explicitly qualified that entire point by saying I don't believe it at this point!!! it was only my initial reaction and I only brought it up to explain why I ISOd you specifically

I mean, still look at the rest of that post.

Since it matters for a lot of my rebuttal to your points on me.

 

[Vult Redux]

Xivii this is a throwback but: a few pages back I took Gheb saying he wanted to add pressure to the Bardull L-1 at face value and liked and accepted it and moved on.
Soon after you point out some of Gheb's contradictory attitudes about the wagon. And reasons why I should not have taken gheb as seriously. (which I should have read more carefully and discussed with you more but i digress).

But in your next reads post (#117) you bump Gheb up to a 50% when before that you had him as very scum (like 80% ). I'd like to know why.

--

no one asked for it but my update on my Maven read is that he's giving me mixed signals. I actually 'liked' his #217 but I think it was mostly because we were on the same page regarding Mac (in that his case on Ryker is a reach)

but in retrospect I do disagree with his reason for not liking Zen (I'm not convinced Zen was lying about Gheb saying "haha" or whatever to achieve anything). It also bothered me that he put a town read on Ryu "through his content".

but i do give him a lot of points for being anti-mac.

 

[Vult Redux]

I want #HBC | Mac to justify his Xivii read

my read on Zen is mostly gut, he just feels like town Zen based on how off the cuff his posts had felt. I also just recently reread a game Zen was in, and in that game he did more holding back which isn't what he seems to be doing here.

Though I did think Gheb had a point last night (this morning) about how Zen shouldn't get credit for taking stances willy nilly. I could see scumZen doing that D1 and then being more reactionary the rest of the game. So my read isn't as strong as it once was. btw @Xiivi i had a question for you

In other news, I also think Zen has a point about Bardull's disappearance which is weird given that he dipped as soon as his wagon started to die down. I still think this slot is town though mostly because my gut reaction to Rykers first post was the same as his and if he hadn't brought that up I 100% would have.

Maven were you okay with this response?

 

[Xivii]

If that hasn't been answered by the time you've caught up and you've provided what I've asked for, I'll answer you. Right now though I think I might actually vote Gheb. I've been thinking it over and I just think it has the highest chance of being a scum hit.

 

[Vult Redux]

If that hasn't been answered by the time you've caught up and you've provided what I've asked for, I'll answer you. Right now though I think I might actually vote Gheb. I've been thinking it over and I just think it has the highest chance of being a scum hit.

you did post about why gheb looked better to you but it doesn't seem to fit the timeframe. your read made a big change during a period of time where is not only didn't post, but you actively made posts against him

 

[Vult Redux]

ebwop:
*...during a period of time where he not only didn't post...

 

[Vult Redux]

I've done fine with scum hunting, I haven't been pushing hard go ham gettem lynched Ruy like I have in the past but that's really more so the fact I tend to second guess myself a lot these days and figure out why I stand where I do.

my concern with isn't that you haven't pushed anyone hard... more like you haven't pushed anyone.... period

the same actually applies to Soup (just finished re-reading). actually i think it applied to him moreso.

Can anyone name a single lead Soup pursued this game? All I see is him answering questions but never really asking any.

It doesn't even look like he's cast a vote yet

 

[Xivii]

Unless you think I'm scum, it doesn't matter right now. Lynch him with me.

 

[Vult Redux]

wow there are too many typos I'm sorry guys.

in short bardull is out of his mind but might be town, zen is tentatively still on my good side, gheb is okay but losing points, mac needs to go, soup probably needs to go unless i missed something important, maven i like and dislike simultaneously, ryu bothers me a little bit but could get redemption and also there are bigger fish to fry

 

[~ Gheb ~]

mac read is from his not good contributions esp. re: ryker

Well for one I agree with him that Ryker is a very solid play toDay so you're not helping me much with this response. Second I've already questioned your stance on Ryker, which you also haven't responded to - even if I disagreed with Macman on Ryker's case I still wouldn't actually know where you're coming from at all still.

Also why is Ryker a non-option when Maven is a good "second choice" to you? Where's the big difference between them two that makes you OK with Maven going but refusing to lynch Ryker?