Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[#HBC | Ryker]

Thanks (tho fwiw he doesn't explain why he wants to pursue rut)

@Ryker my question was why you're voting ruy over the 3 ppl that were in your lynch pool.

I don't have a particularly strong case on anyone at the moment (and even less so then). I've given comments on who I would shoot if you put a gun in my hand and told me I had to and I said I was willing to lynch the inactive. Voting the inactive does absolutely nothing.

Vote Soup

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vult go back to visible you dastard.

Unvote

soup your band of posts were refreshing and I am happy now.

Mac I'm getting to (reading) your posts presently.

Boo.

There's nowhere to do anything today.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, we DO need a lynchpool. Let me narrow this down before I go back to streaming.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

My take on slots at the moment.

1. Red Ryu - Null leaning contributing nothing of value so far.

2. Mac - Annoying. I elaborated above on why he's annoying. Would love to not have to deal with the slot, but should sort himself out in one fashion or another if we keep talking. Would not want to lynch this slot while I have an ongoing dialogue. Is the only slot I think I could add to a lynchpool without a major shake-up prior to day end.

3. Gheb - Null leaning town? I've got a mirror reading much of the frustration I've talked about in not having much in the thread. The reads he has provided have matched up with my sentiments closely enough. I'm fine with taking Gheb to day 2.

4. Ryker - Town, but I'll put him in the lynchpool for arguments sake.

5. Maven - I don't remember much at all out of this slot other than the defense of Gheb which, while I agree with it, isn't much. I wouldn't mind losing him.

6. Bardull - Was fine with him earlier. Wouldn't lynch him as long as he shows up at some point before deadline and doesn't make a fool of himself.

7. Xivii - Sort him out at a later date. No real qualms as of yet.

8. Soup - Annoying again. I dislike Soup's read on Bardull with intensity. I think it looked like fishing for further support on top of the RVS wagon based on things that I didn't see as there. The thing about baiting with the "productive" comment and the semi-pandering to his "No Lynch" partner don't help either. Probably my pick if I have to hit scum right this moment.

9. Vult Redux - Leaning town. No real qualms with the slot. Seems to wear his intentions on his sleeve. You can see his reads evolving and changing in front of your eyes and I'm good with that.





Given those thoughts and the fact that Mac is still trying to push me, AFAIK, and your lynchpool is:

Soup, Maven, Ruy, Ryker

Thoughts on those players from any and everyone are appreciated.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm going to go stream now. If I get a run going, it'll take me about 12 hours to be back and then I'll be asleep, so you can check my twitch if you want to know if I should be in the thread tonight.

 

[Vult Redux]

\
Soup n ryu are also on my radar. But I'm only supporting a Ryker lynch toDay.

Why is Ryu on your radar?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, you got that Soup read?

I have him as null-town right now. He seems to be his usual self and your points on him make precious little sense to me. I don't understand why he's continuously mentioned as a lynch candidate by people. He hasn't done anything wrong in my book.

 

[Xivii]

Vult I don't see why you find the town reads on you odd. You've been transparent from the start and have consistently pushed the game forward. I'll go into it more if you want, it just seems unnecessary.

Ryu would actually probably surpass my Vult town read. I've liked everything about him so far. His RVS play came off really natural to me as well as his transition away from RVS. He didn't continue to play in a joking manner but rather quickly went into scum hunting. Along with the rest of the post, he remaining on Gheb in #145 locked in this read for me. His reasons for doing so were perfectly valid and I feel that if Gheb is town, a scum Ryu would not want to remain on the wagon here, since the mislynch could have looked agenda-y of Ryu from the start.

Mac is my third town read. I was absolutely expecting him to push Ryker when he came in. I'm not sure how anyone other than Bardull also saw Ryker's opening posts as scummy. There's a whole bunch of "unnaturalness" to them. When Mac signed up as a replacement, I had a suspicion that he read those first few posts and had Ryker as scum before he even started.

soup is currently a slight town read. Yes, quit the reversal from earlier. I really like his string of posts earlier, especially his #196 and #197. He bringing up original, sensible points here which really make me feel like he is genuinely looking at things critically. He is openly willing to question Vult, someone who everyone has as an obvtown read, which I feel scum would be hesitant to do.

Ryker is a null town lean for me. I think his play stems more from indifference than scuminess. He's stated a couple of times before, outside of this game, that he is not going to be super assertive D1 and as aggressive as he's traditionally been. I believe he and I also once made an agreement not to go at each others throat early on in the game, because it just clutters the thread. I think his first couple of posts came off the way they did, because he wasn't expecting me to break that agreement.

I'm really beginning to question Maven. I had a gut town read of him from his original scum read of me, because it was unique and he has scum read me in every game since our first pyp. I've come to expect the paranoia, but now it just seems like he's reaching to call me scum. I thought that reaching was intentional because he had some insight into Gheb that I didn't, but the fact that he's continued to push me on nonsense makes me think he has a good chance of just being scum.

Gheb's posts as of late have been really good. I like that his tone has changed regarding the progression of the game, I like that he is expressing disagreement without slinging mud, and I like the point he made about Ryker in #203. It was something that pinged me as well, and Gheb regards it, along with the point Mac made, objectively rather than manipulatively. His following post on Maven I also agree with. Overall though, I still have mistrust in Gheb because of his anti-town behavior earlier and the #121 that I pointed out. Unless he was cleared or semi-cleared by other means, such as being the leader a scum lynch, I would lynch Gheb over anyone else in a mylo situation.

Bardull is scummy. He's done absolutely nothing to progress the game. I find the town reads on him absurd. He cleared up some early and weak points on him, but that doesn't absolve him from doing anything the rest of the game.

Right now I am leaning towards lynching either Bardull or Maven.

 

[Xivii]

@Red Ryu I want to clear up some of your concerns with me, because you are my strongest town read and I really don't want you to misread me. The way that I tend to use my vote and reads often is to pressure people I believe are sitting on the side lines. My soup and Bardull reads have fluctuated so much because they have insofar been based on their willingness to contribute. Keep in mind that contribution isn't synonymous with activity levels. For example, Ryker hasn't had the greatest activity levels, but he is providing input when he does posts. Other than his post on Ryker, Bardull's posts have been empty to me so far. They don't provide any thoughts.

Regarding putting someone at L-1. I don't even remember if I knew I was putting him at L-1 at that time. I was just peeking in real quick while I was at work and decided to add to the pressure. People often react when you vote them after they just made a post, because it makes them feel like they just said something scummy. I unvoted later on when I actually did read and realized there was a considerable chance that he might actually be hammered.

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.7

Red Ryu:
Macman: Vult Redux
Gheb:
Ryker: Bardull, Macman
Maven
Bardull
Xivii: Maven
Soup: Ryker
Vult Redux

Not voting:
soup, Macman, Gheb, Ryu, Xivii

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is September 22, at 11:59 PM.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Not here but we should be consolidating. That vote count is baaaaad

 

[Maven89]

Gheb never said "haha". That was me laughing in a casual and friendly manner. #121 has Gheb saying "not sure why anyone would put him at L-1" which indicates that he was not serious about Bardull being lynched. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Probably. To be honest if that's what you meant you shouldn't have put the post# in parenthesis because that means it's an aside and not the main subject. But a grammar mistake does make way more sense then attempting to lie about it right after you quoted it.

 

[BarDulL]

I've been a little busy and forgot about this game, to be honest. I also wanted to give more people time to give their piece. Will start reading from when I stopped (my last post in this thread).

 

[Vult Redux]

Red Ryu I also read as town through his content, same with Bardull. They've generated discussion and done nothing scummy.

Maven can you explain your RR read?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Vote: Ryker

Thought I was voting him already.

And lol Zen no I didn't read this thread at all before replacing. But yea my immediate reaction to Ryker's behavior early on was dude is mad scummy. Though with input from both you and Zen, maybe that early tell isn't as big a deal as I thought. Still ok with Ryker going due to the other points I've made.

Also honestly i forget what made me uneasy about ruy initially, still gotta do a more thorough read through.

Gheb and Zen are looking townie af

Looking forward to Bardulls post

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Ebwop: you and gheb

 

[ranmaru]

Fixed.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Surprised noones left voting bardull, BarDulL , what are your thoughts on all the people that left your wagon

 

[BarDulL]

****, rereading the last 4 pages twice was tedious. Lol.

I hate it when I'm in the zone, caught up, and involved, then forget about the game after intentionally taking a break from the thread, and then when I come back, I have 180~ posts to read, and everything's a blur.

I'm writing a long post right now.

 

[BarDulL]

Mmmkay, so on to my big post.

great! now we just have to wait for the mafia to #expose themselves

So, in relation to the wagon that got me to L-1, I thought this post was weird, and makes me question Vult's intent with the wagon to begin with. I'm pretty sure at this point, Vult was saying that myself and Gheb were probably scum-aligned, and seems to have been trying to push the thread in that general direction for a good portion of the game. From that point of view, this post doesn't really make sense to me.

1. If Vult was waiting for scum to hammer me while at L-1, announcing this plan essentially ruins the entire point of getting me to L-1 to begin with.

2. If Vult truly felt I was scub with Gheb, scum wouldn't hammer because Gheb was already on the wagon.

That being said, I don't really feel Vult is being genuine with his approach or his transparency. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but if Vult was a smart townie, he wouldn't have made this kind of proclamation I would think while the wagon was still fresh.

you were trying to label me as "pivoting" even during RVS!

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with "style of play". I try to play as "unfiltered" as possible and be transparent with my reads and I do change my mind frequently. In general. But I don't think I have even done it in this game (I hadn't had a read on you and then when i did, it happened to be negative... it's not like my read on you moved from e.g. very town to very scum).

soooo I'm surprised that a) you're bringing it up at all and b) you're trying to frame it negatively. that does bother me (on a gameplay level!! ofc I'm not taking anything personally) and think it might be something you would more likely do as scum than as town.

i missed the part of the post where you talked a bit about ryker and I think this is a fair point.

But, that's what you were doing. You didn't have a singular direction and were kinda hopping all over the place. First Ryker, then swapping over to Gheb, and then you ended up swapping over to me. You were essentially pivoting in RVS. What is your gripe with this?

When I first brought up that you were pivoting, it was an unadulterated statement in terms of implying your alignment. However, with constant changes like that even in RVS, it's hard to take your position and your vote any bit seriously because they lack serious conviction, which is why I never went along with you to begin with. I also feel that with your constant hopping around, that behavior gives you too much wiggle room to dismiss your previous approach if it's to be accepted as the norm. I do take issue with this style of play because it's hard to trust when you can potentially end up turning around and trying to gut me in the back, and it'll be excused.

You're doin' a whole lot of missing points while making bold claims. >:[

Unvote

I hadn't actually read Bardull's / soup earlier when I made that vote. I like him. I think soup is a scummer still.

Real smooth. You did this to your own credibility for this game, you can't blame me for it.

I just don't get why you got cold feet hours after your initial vote that put me at L-1. The story doesn't make sense to me, and given that you tried to backpedal out of your vote by saying you didn't read anything that happened between myself and Soup, it basically means I hate your slot with a passion.

It's not suspicious because of a possible scum motive, but for a lack of town motive. Usually when someone questions another it is because they are attempting to develop a read on them, but you just did nothing after he responded. What you say here though gives me a better understanding of where you're coming from.





For this reason, do you think made a mistake in choosing soup as your starting point? This is actually why I asked you if you chose it tactically.

You think I expected Soup to be a jerk to me? I almost feel like he thinks he was rejected by me and holds it near and dear to his heart. I don't really think much of Soup in a negative way, so I don't really know why he is so antagonistic towards me. I'm just trying to play Mafia.

I mean, if you want to look at it differently, then you could say Soup is just trying to be a jerk for no good reason. That's not someone I'm interested in dealing with. I don't give people the time of day when they are needlessly being lame towards me. I end up just removing them from my life. I have too much self-respect to put up with people thinking it's ok to be unjustifiably negative to me.

I mean, thinking I'm scum is one thing, but actually coming into the game with a prejudiced mindset and attacking me on a personal level to try and goad me into an angry response is a pretty awful thing to do. I don't even know what I did to cause him to feel that way towards me, and I haven't spoken to him in ages.

Ok, but what does that make their alignment?

You know, my problem is, is that it's hard to read them because of how much wiggle room they give themselves to maneuver, even if that style prevents them from gaining significant traction for a wagon. They just haphazardly hop all over the place and it's hard for me to take them seriously.

Like, Zen is obviously a ****ter because he claims he didn't read my interaction with Soup prior to putting me at L-1. If he's Town, I hate him, if he's scum, I hate him because he thinks he can actually slip away with doing that. But the fact is that he actually could slip away from it because Zen has this thing for jumping all over the place and flip flopping with his reads.

With Vult, it's a similar case, at least in the beginning. There's just a whole lot of shifting around with reads that make me feel uncomfortable with his level of commitment. I mean, it makes sense for reads to be static, I guess, but to change direction at the drop of a hat seems a little suspicious to me.

Just curious, but how do you go about reading Zen and Vult?

I was actually fighting the urge to put Gheb in my town list because his posts were null but funny until he made the quick lynch comment. Jesus Christ what was that?

Maven's most recent post is split into defending Bardull and excusing Gheb. One I agree with, the other I don't. The other thing he does is throw shade at Zen, which is perfectly acceptable given that vote to L-1.

I also thought Maven's approach to Gheb was interesting, but I saw it more as being influenced by their interpersonal relationship outside of the game.

The thing I liked though despite this was that Maven asked all the right questions when Gheb decided that I wasn't the play toDay. Or at least I feel they were the right questions; Gheb clearly stated he wanted to see me lynched, so the 180 away from my wagon was in direct contrast with what Gheb had previously stated.

Unvote Vote Red Ryu

Bardull's not a play toDay. Not sure why anybody'd put him at L-1.

This raised all sorts of red flags to me, but this has already been thoroughly discussed so I'm going to put it on the backburner and come back to it later.

And nothing major there.

I should be more active in general now that the weekend is over. I spent it learning a 9.5 hour RPG speed run and completing one run at gucking 15:25:06. I intend to try again on Tuesday and Thursday, but odds are good I don't get a run going and can stay active.

When's deadline?

Would Lynch Mars atm.

Vote Ruy

Yo, what RPG though? PogChamp

Disappearance. I want him to do stuff. He was really excited to play the game and now he's not doing anything.

You know, it's pretty hard to be excited about Mafia when you get put at L-1 for no good reason. Like, almost getting quick lynched after being amped up for a game is kind of demoralizing and made me not want to play. Especially with players like you literally claiming to not read what I say after putting me at L-1. It just comes across as disrespectful if you're Town, like you were trying to get a rise out of me, or you're just straight up scum.

After fully reading page 4 I retract my statement about Gheb being null and instead read him as town. Didn't mean to clutter the thread but I realized I haven't really posted too much and all of the sudden I had the urge to mafia.

Regardless, I think Vult's criticism and pairing of Bardull/Gheb is largely invalid, and that I'm not really getting why Vult is being townread. Initially, I took what he was saying at face value with Bardull cause I somewhat agreed with it, but since that's blown over I've been given pause. What I'm seeing here is Vult trying to beat Gheb over the head with his own action of unvoting Bardull, but I feel that a lot of players tend to unvote/change their mind all the time so why in particular this instance? His #157 is not a strong argument in this case, and instead seems to be cherrypick-



..I guess before I submit this thought Vult suddenly thinks Gheb is town now?

This is exactly how I feel about Vult approach to myself and Gheb. I honestly think that the pairing made little to no sense to begin with considering Gheb's first vote of the game leading into calling for a quick lynch.

But just so we're clear, even though I agree with you here, you're still a ****ter and hope you grow a pair. =3c

Vote: Ryker
He is the play.

I agree with bardull, Ryker's first post is prolly the scummiest thing that's happened this game

Zen makes a dumb RVS vote on Ryker and his response just feels so wrong.



I don't really see how Zen's posts till that point could have triggered Ryker enough to make him want to ignore Zen. I don't understand why he's already assuming he'd be jumping down Zen's throat toDay. Especially since clearly Zen was just ****ing around with his vote and there's nothing from his posts that would make it seem like he and Ryker would go at it all Day.

Maybe Ryker's post was supposed to be funny? in a weird reverse sarcasm meta type way and he was only pretending to get worked up over Zen's ****. Idk..

It doesn't help that Ryker seemed to sit back most of the Day and hasn't really contributed much. At least not until his one wave of questions to bardull and soup (albeit good questions). But they were the kind of Qs that didn't really give us insight into what Ryker's reads were. They were the kind of Qs scum could give that would make it appear that they were contributing. Also it doesn't seem like Ryker took anything away from the responses he's gotten

I also really dislike his reads post, mostly because he doesn't give reasons for why he thinks bardull is town and soup leans scum. Also the timing of it feels gross given how Bardulls wagon went down.

Zen town, vult town,

prolly bardull town just cuz I agreed with him on Ryker early on, and his defense (despite being overly defensive) read like exasperated town (though I do want him to better explain how someone talking negatively about him would make him not want to get a read on the person. They don't seem like related things).

I kinda like gheb too for no real reason except for he seems to be just slinging his **** around the thread with no worry about how ppl are perceiving him. Which seems a lil too confident to do as scum, but idk maybe y'all haven't been lynching gheb enough in recent mafia games and he getting cocky

Soup n ryu are also on my radar. But I'm only supporting a Ryker lynch toDay. Also i guess mavens on the radar as well cuz I dislike the Zen push. I don't really remember much of what hes said tbh.

Zen thoughts on Ryker's and your early Day interaction?
Ryker why are you voting ruy and not one of the three from your lynch pool? why is bardull a town lean to you?

Man this post was only supposed to be like 2 lines long. Also this nightly back up **** almost completely ****ed me

If Ryker is scum, who do you think his partner is? Is he distancing his partner?

I might've missed it, but do you have a good explanation for the Vult read?

I don't really see the gripes with Maven's push toward Zen. You saw Zen put me at L-1, then unvoted and claimed that he hadn't read a word I said between myself and Soup? I mean, that's all sorts of ****ed. Also, by virtue of being the first one to have an acceptable reason for getting off my wagon, alongside correctly questioning Gheb, I feel more comfortable with his slot. Is there a particular reason you have for going in this direction with regard to Maven?

Bardull, what do you make of Soup's observations about Maven and When's relationship?

When's? I'm guessing you mean Gheb. I don't think it's scum-aligned. I see Maven being Town, Gheb still fairly null to a possible scum lean only because I'm still trying to make sense of the 180 Gheb pulled on the wagon. I know his explanation is there, but I'm still thinking it over.

Honestly? You're right <_<

I've been thinking about this and i noticed that everyone except gheb and you put me as town. It's a red flag for me and was thinking about bringing it up last night but didn't have time to write something up. I think only Ryker put out a reason. Maybe Zen did too; can't remember.

He explained a post and I liked his explanation.

This is what I mean with Vult's lack of conviction.

Vult literally turns around in the drop of a hat without much conviction and says "you know, even though I've been pushing Gheb/Bard scum team this whole game so far, Gheb's single post explaining his questionable thought process about what he expected to happen vs. what it seemed he was going for at face value really adds up to me."

Let's be real here. It was actually totally possible that I got quicklynched.

I'd find it incredibly ironic. but actually plausible that him and Gheb are scum together only because he was pushing my slot while throwing shade at Gheb, but said shade equated to essentially nothing, and now he's giving Gheb a pass on something that is still really questionable.

 

[BarDulL]

Regarding Red Ryu, because I've literally not once interacted with him this game: I need to address his slot, but have not done so because nothing in particular has stuck out to me as peculiar. I will reread him in a bit and then give my opinion, and then probably a read list at this exact moment.

 

[Xivii]

Vult can you review soup and give a breakdown of your thoughts on him.

 

[Xivii]

Bardull read #249.

 

[BarDulL]

@Red Ryu I want to clear up some of your concerns with me, because you are my strongest town read and I really don't want you to misread me. The way that I tend to use my vote and reads often is to pressure people I believe are sitting on the side lines. My soup and Bardull reads have fluctuated so much because they have insofar been based on their willingness to contribute. Keep in mind that contribution isn't synonymous with activity levels. For example, Ryker hasn't had the greatest activity levels, but he is providing input when he does posts. Other than his post on Ryker, Bardull's posts have been empty to me so far. They don't provide any thoughts.

Regarding putting someone at L-1. I don't even remember if I knew I was putting him at L-1 at that time. I was just peeking in real quick while I was at work and decided to add to the pressure. People often react when you vote them after they just made a post, because it makes them feel like they just said something scummy. I unvoted later on when I actually did read and realized there was a considerable chance that he might actually be hammered.

Regarding your first paragraph, I give plenty of substance with my posts. What posts do you feel didn't have substance?

I honestly don't believe your second paragraph is legitimate and makes me not trust you even more.

It would be more believable if you just outright said you thought it would be funny to get a rise out of me. How can you seriously tell me that you came in the thread, ignored the vote count, ignored any ongoing conversation, and then voted for me?

 

[Xivii]

I really don't see what is the matter with that. I didn't think it would be funny to get a rise out of you. It never crossed my mind. I can't empathize with how personally you take the game. I just don't get it. But I know that you do, and that's part of the reason why I unvoted you when I realized. I wanted you to enjoy the game regardless of your alignment. Anyways, it seems you're not going to get over it, so no need to respond to this.

 

[BarDulL]

I take it personally only when I feel like I'm not being respected as a player of the game, like there's some interpersonal bull**** going on outside of the game like there is with soup where he is intentionally trying to goad me into an angry reaction.

I guess a part of me feels like you think it's ok to put me at L-1, and then you expect me to be ok with it like it's no big deal. You kinda just haphazardly throw your vote around without regard for how people respond to it, which would be fine, but in this case you voted for me at a critical point that could have gotten me quick lynched. It's a very different thing with a very different set of circumstances.

 

[BarDulL]

Anyway, I won't take this issue personally, but still, it looks hella shady, you've got to realize that.

Let's move on for a minute.

Who do you think Soup's partner is, assuming you still think Soup is scum?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Do you often take things super personally when you play mafia bardull

 

[BarDulL]

Mac, would you not be annoyed as a player of the game if Zen put you at L-1 without paying attention to the vote count or to the content of your posts?

I don't think It's weird for me to get annoyed by that. I also don't think it's weird to want to live in a world where Zen is more careful with his vote and pays more attention to the context of the situation, especially when my slot is involved.

Players that I haven't taken things personally with this game despite being pushed by them involve Gheb and Vult, whom have pushed for my slot a lot more actively than Zen. That being said, I think it's fair to say that I don't overreact as often as Zen stipulates.

Anyway, I'm taking a break again from the thread so that it doesn't become about me again. I'll be back in a bit; lets try to focus on finding scum.

 

[BarDulL]

Oh yeah, almost forgot about this; current read list:

People who I think should live:

Maven
Red Ruy
Mac

Null:

Gheb
Ryker
Soup

People who I think should die:

Zen
Vult

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Let me clear the air about one particular thing before I go about other things I need to get to.

This is exactly how I feel about Vult approach to myself and Gheb. I honestly think that the pairing made little to no sense to begin with considering Gheb's first vote of the game leading into calling for a quick lynch.

But just so we're clear, even though I agree with you here, you're still a ****ter and hope you grow a pair. =3c

I don't really understand you, honestly. I made a judgment call on you and you got it twisted and thought I was personally attacking you. That wasn't my intention at all and even though I've glossed over this before, I wanted to see how you would react. I hold no ill intent towards you especially given that the last time I played with you might've been years. Maybe you took offense to me saying you had a large ego but that's been my last impression of you related to your Mafia play, so that's what I called it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

8. Soup - Annoying again. I dislike Soup's read on Bardull with intensity. I think it looked like fishing for further support on top of the RVS wagon based on things that I didn't see as there. The thing about baiting with the "productive" comment and the semi-pandering to his "No Lynch" partner don't help either. Probably my pick if I have to hit scum right this moment.

Make these accusations a bit more clearer so I don't have to keep repeating myself about why I've done the things I have, because clearly those answers aren't satisfactory to you.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It doesn't help that Ryker seemed to sit back most of the Day and hasn't really contributed much. At least not until his one wave of questions to bardull and soup (albeit good questions). But they were the kind of Qs that didn't really give us insight into what Ryker's reads were. They were the kind of Qs scum could give that would make it appear that they were contributing. Also it doesn't seem like Ryker took anything away from the responses he's gotten

I like that you're thinking about it less in a Ryker way and more of a player way, because I haven't really thought too hard about his questioning. Maybe that's a problem I'm having with the room, but I digress. I still disagree with it though only because that type of behavior from Ryker isn't exclusive, as other players have been doing it too, say Maven and Ruy for example. I just don't think this is concrete enough to solidify a different feeling towards Ryker despite him being down my throat, because the only other line of logic you have is that smaller interaction in RVS with Zen, which has not occured to me as useful or important at all, rather just minuscule RVS stuff. What do you think of Maven/Ruy btw?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Have to take another pause in the read because I read a super interesting post and then I wanna just give my two cents. So far my feeling about this game is that a lot of people are reading heavily on meta instead of singular things they've done in the game so far. The only person who I haven't really seen do that is surprisingly vult and to an extent Mac, who made observation on Ryker not tacked on with some kind of meta attributed to it.

This also goes into why I started to townread Gheb because even if he was being a crotchety old man towards things and being Gheb, he has great points. The content thus far hasn't really gotten us anywhere and the more I look back on the last couple of pages the less it seems like we're reaching conclusions and more like we're reaching strife with each other based on how we're playing, which is bad when you only look at the person instead of the slot, per se. This actually makes me feel better about the Mac slot if anything, and maybe even Vult (though less vult if he hadn't switched his read on Gheb) and feeling like I just wanna get over whatever Ryker or Bardull is yelling at me for regardless of their scumread/dislike.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I feel Xivii has the scummiest content with his Bardull vote then his push on Gheb that included straight up lies. It might be laziness on Xivii's part, I have trouble imagining scum lying about the posts they're quoting. At the same time I haven't seen anything else that I find scummier, so I'm keeping my vote. If gun to my head, I'd shoot Xivii. Put him 55%scum if you want.

@Soup: No, I don't really have a problem with Gheb. He voted Bardull in RVS, but then afterwards people were pushing Bardull and Gheb made his comment about hoping Bardull would be quickhammered, I asked him to see if his RVS vote had turned into a real vote at some point, but apparently it didn't. If he had already clarified that at any point then I didn't see it.

I like Vult's play because I do not see it as being manipulative in the least, which makes me read him more pro-town. He comes off super honest and willing to change his reads. Red Ryu I also read as town through his content, same with Bardull. They've generated discussion and done nothing scummy. I don't read Gheb as town due to his content but his attitude towards everything, explained in greater detail in earlier post.

I find Macman's push on Ryker to be bizarre and I'm not convinced by it. I'd include him second in the shooting list.

If deadline was today I'd push for lynching Xivii, as it is I want to see the day play out more because I'm not comfortable with any scum read to have them lynched yet. I also seem to be the only person scumreading Xivii which is confusing me and I haven't seen anyone give reasons for town reading him when I feel there's plenty of reasons to not town read him.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

No, I don't really have a problem with Gheb. He voted Bardull in RVS, but then afterwards people were pushing Bardull and Gheb made his comment about hoping Bardull would be quickhammered, I asked him to see if his RVS vote had turned into a real vote at some point, but apparently it didn't. If he had already clarified that at any point then I didn't see it.

I like Vult's play because I do not see it as being manipulative in the least, which makes me read him more pro-town. He comes off super honest and willing to change his reads. Red Ryu I also read as town through his content, same with Bardull. They've generated discussion and done nothing scummy. I don't read Gheb as town due to his content but his attitude towards everything, explained in greater detail in earlier post.

Then you were just double-checking or something? Regardless I still don't understand why you were asking the questions you were, and furthermore, I am not really getting why you dislike Zen. Stupid of me maybe to say 'we should stop reading so hard into meta' but I'll give you something less about Zen and more about his last play where he was scum and I just blindly townread him in that he was less likely to take risks, which I see him doing here. I think you were in that game too maybe so that's further confusing, to me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Don't know where I wanna put my vote and that's a bit frustrating. I'll be back sometime later to think about it.

 

[Xivii]

Once we have Vults', Gheb's, and Ryu's input, we can perhaps start trying to consolidate. My opinions haven't changed from my last post.

 

[Vult Redux]

I've been thinking about Bardull's case. My first reaction was he's trying really hard to stretch a case. But seeing his interaction with Soup in the above few makes me realize that he's a sensitive player and a lot of what he's saying is a negative reaction to be put to L-1. This is supported by:

Let's be real here. It was actually totally possible that I got quicklynched.

If we're really being real, fmpov, there's no way he was gonna get lynched. But I can see why he'd think that (in fact I think I might feel differently if I were in his position... being on the receiving end of L-1 isn't fun). After all, at the time, I was hoping to make the wagon look somewhat serious (And Gheb was too, apparently, which is why I like him more now) than it really was.

He also doesn't have familiarity with me as a player and seemed to come in with a negative perception about "flip-flopping" etc etc. He makes some general points about why he thinks that playstyle could benefit scum in certain situations and applied it to me. meh I think it has more positives than negatives and really don't want to argue about it.

1. If Vult was waiting for scum to hammer me while at L-1, announcing this plan essentially ruins the entire point of getting me to L-1 to begin with.

I think I was trying to balance "serious threat" and "joking rvs" at that point. Imho having a player sit at L-1 forces players to respond to it (giving us reactions) and my pointing out that I'm going to be watching responses doesn't really negate that.

anyway this is a drawn-out way to say that I don't find his case on me scummy. not right now at least. Contrast that with how I feel about Mac's case on Ryker

 

[Vult Redux]

sorry to be annoying but I reread Ryu specifically earlier today after noticing that an interaction between him and Mac looked staged (I'm referring to their #225-#227) and Ryu jumped out to me as a scumread. Which is why I've been trying to get people to talk about him.

(In retrospect I'm not convinced their interaction was staged; it doesn't feel natural but I'm not going to push it further nor use it as a reason to lynch somebody).

I think it's more interesting that Mac magically forgot what initially bothered him about Ryu as soon as I questioned him about it. (Did he know my followup post was gonna be "okay, we have the votes to lynch ryu I'm expecting you on the wagon"? hmmmmm <__<)

I noticed Zen is the only player to back up a townread on Ryu. Others have just been like... going along with it. (Maven stands out)

the short version of what bothers me about him is that he hasn't been scumhunting. I'm too sleepy to say more but I just wanted to bring it up so Zen can call me a loonie and we can move on so that people can comment now. Honestly, just look at his last few posts. It's kind of ridiculous that someone hasn't brought up his passiveness yet.



sorry if this isn't coherent i'm bad at mafia especially at night