"Fixing" taunts in Sm4sh For Glory

[tmonty17]

By definition, to "taunt" is to provoke or insult another person. In my opinion (especially in online play) this gives taunts a negative connotation. I realize this isn't always the case but a lot of players do perceive a taunt as a form of smack talk and on the flip side, a lot of players actually do use it as a means of smack talk.

Do I think there is something wrong with being able to taunt or the taunt feature in general? Absolutely not. But what I do think would be cool to see, is a taunt for each player that signifies respect. A "taunt" that more or less says good game or well played, /bow, /salute, and so on. After going back and forth with someone in FG mode, I would really like to be able to tell someone GG without hoping that they actually check smash boards and looking them up on the "Who WAS that?" thread.

Would anyone else be on board with something like this?

::EDIT::

For everyone that is posting "people that take offense to taunts take it too personally" or "there is no negative connotation that goes along with taunting" etc.. Should go to a tournament and play. It's pretty much an unspoken rule not to taunt unless A) You want to look like a jerk. B) You're playing someone you don't like and you don't care if they think you're a jerk or C) You like getting under people's skin and you don't care if anyone has a problem with it.

I want to reiterate that I don't care if people taunt, I just think if you truly believe there isn't a negative connotation that goes along with taunting then you're incorrect. Even if the reason you choose to taunt isn't negative, it is still going to be perceived that way by a lot of people online.

::EDIT 2::

This is a very good argument on the way taunts are perceived. Khao brings up several good points.

Fun fact: "Taunt" is a mistranslation, they are known as "Appeals" in Japan, and it fits them much better when you look at most of the animations and what the character say.

That's the reason I just can't see them as being "offensive" or "douche-like" in any way, they're not meant as a way to get your opponent mad, they're simply a way to strike a cool pose, getting pumped-out for the fight, or celebrate when you did something awesome, or simply do something fun when you think you have the chance to.

I think you're just doing something that a lot of people are that I frankly consider a problem, and that's just making assumptions of what's going through your opponent's head when they make an action.

It's a perfectly natural thing to do, as there's no real form of communication, but really, don't do that. It just gonna take away your enjoyment of the game.

There's no "negativity" surrounding For Glory, you're just assuming there is for whatever reason. You just can't know what your opponent is thinking at any moment, it's just best to accept that the game has no communication and enjoy the moment for what it is. You don't know why your opponent is taunting. You don't know why they left the game. You don't know why they switched characters. You don't know why they're using a specific playstyle. And you certainly can't know when your opponent is feeling mad, or arrogant, or stubborn.

When taunting, is your opponent being a pre-pubescent ******* that's arrogantly enjoying their temporary "superiority" towards you, or iare they just happy they managed to get a point and wanted a way to express it?

Instead of picturing your opponent as an angry kid with a whiny attitude with no real basis, picture someone with a smile on their face having as much fun with the game as you're trying to have, and maybe you'll enjoy the online mode a little bit more.

 

[gamecrazy94]

I don't care that much, but when someone spams (countering, projectiles, etc) through the entire fight, then they taunt when they take a stock, then that's when it gets really annoying. Otherwise, I don't care.

I think taunting should be used at a person's discretion as they see fit, as long they don't go overboard with it. If someone clearly overpowers me and taunts, it gets me motivated to find a weakness, exploit it, and turn it around.

That's how I see taunts in Smash Bros.

 

[Spirst]

I don't care either.

I'd rather they let us add custom messages for online like in For Friends. Even more, I'd rather they give us actual means of communication.

 

[Lichi]

Taunting should not be seen as offensive. It is just a little gimmick that currently is our only way of "communicating" in FG. Be it to tell your opponents that you think you are superior, after you got wooped and congratulate your opponent, or, like in my case, just for fun because I like it and don't think you should construe any deeper meaning into a taunt.
I also like to invent / use other methods of taunting the opponent. DDDs crouching for example is like saying 'ez game'. Crawling with certain characters to show them my butt is also hilarious to me. Don't take it too serious.

 

[ChikoLad]

How many topics are we gonna have about people being offended by taunts?

You take Rosalina's sexy "Mmm-hmmm...", and you like it!

Or you can join people in "really feeling it!". Etc, etc.

 

[KingTeo]

Taunting can already be a sign of respect. Almost all of them are ambiguous so you're the one assuming that there's negative connotation with it. 438

 

[Raijinken]

Allowing players to send some pre-made chats on the results/character select screen would be kinda neat. Such chats could include "gg", "well played", "bye!", "glhf", "rematch?", "yes", "no", and so on.

The lack doesn't really bother me, as I mostly play against people I know, but even for that it would be helpful.

Taunts can be kinda annoying, but at least they put in a limit on repeated taunting, so there's that. If they're foolish enough to taunt after a kill with a long taunt, I'll take the free Smash they're offering.

 

[the8thark]

Allowing players to send some pre-made chats on the results/character select screen would be kinda neat. Such chats could include "gg", "well played", "bye!", "glhf", "rematch?", "yes", "no", and so on.

Blizzard has this in Hearthstone. And people just claim saying "well played" after whooping their opponent thanks to their good RNG is bad manners because it was luck and not playing well that got the win. Similar things would happen in Smash with your idea. People would read into the pre made chat words at the results screen and then post on these forums basically ******** about it.
"He well played me after whooping me 2-0, that's bad manners" etc etc. I think you get my point. People will complain to matter how you do it.

 

[Donkeykong98123]

If they taunt you then just beat them. Then they look dumb

 

[Raijinken]

Blizzard has this in Hearthstone. And people just claim saying "well played" after whooping their opponent thanks to their good RNG is bad manners because it was luck and not playing well that got the win. Similar things would happen in Smash with your idea. People would read into the pre made chat words at the results screen and then post on these forums basically *****ing about it.
"He well played me after whooping me 2-0, that's bad manners" etc etc. I think you get my point. People will complain to matter how you do it.

I agree, and honestly, it's the exact same in real sports (especially for younger kids). Would still have some potential for reasonable usage, at least, which there currently isn't since we currently don't have any sort of system in place.

 

[Starman15]

Looks to me like you're taking it too personally

 

[tmonty17]

Looks to me like you're taking it too personally

How so? All I'm saying is that if people want to taunt then that's fine. I personally don't do it unless provoked, but even if someone is constantly taunting me I don't take it personally.

I just wish there was an alternative taunt that implied "good game" instead of "haha I killed you"

 

[supercoolmayo]

Why are so many people complaining about taunting? It's just an action.

I'd complain more if people were cheating, or overusing a op move, but taunting?

 

[JKarmageddon]

Taunting has always been more of a victory dance thing to me.

 

[Zero Suit Wario]

In my opinion it is extremely douche-like to taunt or insult random people online

You are saying

In my opinion it is extremely douche-like to use a feature that the developers put in the game as a silly thing online

 

[PixelPasta]

It's been said already, but I'll say it again - you're taking taunts a bit too personally.
I look at it as more of a playful thing, rather than it being malicious.

That said, your idea of a 'congratulatory taunt' actually sounds pretty fun.
Give each character three taunts that are actually taunting, and one for congratulating/showing respect: I think that would add a very interesting dynamic to online matches.

For example, Link could get down on one knee and bow his head respectfully. Samus could do an army-style salute. Olimar could have his 'bowing down' animation. Villager could do his 'delight' emotion (the one where he claps his hands).
Mario's taunt where he takes off his hat would also work nice for this.
You could even give the more snarky characters such as Falco or Dark Pit little quotes, such as "Not bad..." or "You're doing surprisingly good!"

 

[Khao]

Fun fact: "Taunt" is a mistranslation, they are known as "Appeals" in Japan, and it fits them much better when you look at most of the animations and what the character say.

That's the reason I just can't see them as being "offensive" or "douche-like" in any way, they're not meant as a way to get your opponent mad, they're simply a way to strike a cool pose, getting pumped-out for the fight, or celebrate when you did something awesome, or simply do something fun when you think you have the chance to.

I think you're just doing something that a lot of people are that I frankly consider a problem, and that's just making assumptions of what's going through your opponent's head when they make an action.

It's a perfectly natural thing to do, as there's no real form of communication, but really, don't do that. It just gonna take away your enjoyment of the game.

There's no "negativity" surrounding For Glory, you're just assuming there is for whatever reason. You just can't know what your opponent is thinking at any moment, it's just best to accept that the game has no communication and enjoy the moment for what it is. You don't know why your opponent is taunting. You don't know why they left the game. You don't know why they switched characters. You don't know why they're using a specific playstyle. And you certainly can't know when your opponent is feeling mad, or arrogant, or stubborn.

When taunting, is your opponent being a pre-pubescent asshole that's arrogantly enjoying their temporary "superiority" towards you, or iare they just happy they managed to get a point and wanted a way to express it?

Instead of picturing your opponent as an angry kid with a whiny attitude with no real basis, picture someone with a smile on their face having as much fun with the game as you're trying to have, and maybe you'll enjoy the online mode a little bit more.

 

[Roukiske]

My taunt fix: Preset words for Random For Glory matches.

You can write your own phrase with friends which is fine since they are friends, but how about adding that feature with preset words or phrases. Use 1 phrase or combine 2 if you want in one of your 4 taunts (although they should attempt to be short phrases I guess). If you do not have a phrase for that taunt then it will taunt normally. Leave enough time for when the game is over you can sneak in a taunt so you can tell your opponent GG after the last kill is secured.

Phrases such as: Good game (gg), Nice Hit, Oops, Sorry, Okay, Again, Last one, Bye. This is Nintendo after all so I doubt they would put something like "Haha".

 

[erico9001]

Some taunts are more respectful than others. For example, Duck Hunt's snickering taunt is much more annoying than Lucina's holding sword up taunt. To me, Shulk's taunt: "This is the Monado's Power" is saying something like "This is how you play as Shulk," or "I'm kicking your ass," (but in an unoffensive way). His taunt "I'm really feeling it" can actually be a compliment, as in you are finding that match exhilarating. The last taunt, "Now it's Shulk time" can be used to signify a comeback. If used at the start of battle it could mean that you intend to win. From years of playing games on the internet, I care about my treatment of the human behind the other screen. I use the taunt that fits most with what I wish to convey to the other person. However, be cautious that you are not reading too far into an opponent's taunt.

Often, opponents taunt due to mere tradition. One taunt for each kill is a good sign that this is the opponent's intention, especially if it is the same taunt. Due to this, be aware that a Duck Hunt player may not be trying to piss you off with taunts, and it only appears like so because that character only has aggravating taunts.

Do not be mistaken; there are people who do taunt to upset you, but it should not be the first thing you jump to.

 

[Code Bread]

ITT: _____

 

[Flaxr XIII]

People who get offended by Taunts should might as well be offended by the opponent's Victory Screen as well. They're essentially the same thing. Oh, you don't? Well then stop complaining.

 

[Ryik]

In previous games, it rewarded you for taunting when defeating enemies in Classic Mode. It probably still does; just doesn't directly tell you that it does so unlike previous games.

This practice has carried over for me and now it's habitual almost every single time I kill an enemy, regardless of whether it's actual classic mode or against human players.

Please understand.

 

[the8thark]

People who get offended by Taunts should might as well be offended by the opponent's Victory Screen as well. They're essentially the same thing. Oh, you don't? Well then stop complaining.

The opponent's Victory Screen says they are good.
Taunting after SD's and other things says they are good AND they want to be an ass about it.
That's the difference.

 

[link2702]

...did people ever whine this much in brawl over taunting....? hell in basic brawl taunts didn't even have a limit, smash4 limits it to like 3-4 taunts at first, and then after you can only taunt once per kill on an opponent.


The in game taunts aren't disrespectful at all, and there are far meaner things an opponent can do if they want to mock you and/or show disrespect in a match then the in-game taunt, Like teabagging, or not taking the next match remotely serious at all and just walking around and/or just dodging the whole time but never attacking, or start cycling through the characters you have used against em (if you're choosing different characters a lot) and start beating you with your own characters. All of these are far more effective at getting under your opponents skin than taunting.

 

[Hayzie]

The whole bow/wave thing idea would be most ideal. I like it.

However, I need to come to the final understanding (for myself) that this is just a game. Once a match ends, even if I was salty, it's soon forgotten about by both parties. Taunts, screw-ups, spams, scrubs, even good and memorable matches. It's just vividly moving pictures on a tiny screen that I close and put up when I'm done with it.

It's just a game.

 

[Storm Eagle]

But if I can't taunt, how is the other player supposed to know that I want him to show me his moves?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't know, is Jigglypuff spinning around or Ness saying "Okay" really that provoking? I can perhaps understand something like Brawl Sonic, but if you're seriously peeved by taunts then it's your own fault for interpreting them that way.

With that said, I do like the idea of signaling "Good game" at the result screen, I don't think creating a new taunt for every character that shows respect is worth the effort.

 

[Chandeelure]

So, Taunts are offensive ... LOL

 

[tmonty17]

You are saying

If that's all you took away from my post then you obviously missed the point or just didn't read the rest of what I said.

To clarify, I edited my first post with this at the end so maybe you will better understand where I'm coming from:

For everyone that thinks this is a post whining about taunts in general, it's not. It's about adding another taunt that is recognized as a good game taunt or well done.

I should specify that when I say it is "douche-like" to taunt, I mean that situationally. If you taunt after an SD, or taunt after every single stock then i assume you're just being a prick. This may not be the case for everyone, I understand that some people do it out of habit or don't really think about it and that's fine.

Basically, in a nut shell, I'm not losing any sleep over taunts. I rarely use them myself, but other people can use them as they please. I just want additional taunts that signify good sportsmanship as I feel I would get a lot more use out of something like that.

 

[tmonty17]

Fun fact: "Taunt" is a mistranslation, they are known as "Appeals" in Japan, and it fits them much better when you look at most of the animations and what the character say.

That's the reason I just can't see them as being "offensive" or "douche-like" in any way, they're not meant as a way to get your opponent mad, they're simply a way to strike a cool pose, getting pumped-out for the fight, or celebrate when you did something awesome, or simply do something fun when you think you have the chance to.

I think you're just doing something that a lot of people are that I frankly consider a problem, and that's just making assumptions of what's going through your opponent's head when they make an action.

It's a perfectly natural thing to do, as there's no real form of communication, but really, don't do that. It just gonna take away your enjoyment of the game.

There's no "negativity" surrounding For Glory, you're just assuming there is for whatever reason. You just can't know what your opponent is thinking at any moment, it's just best to accept that the game has no communication and enjoy the moment for what it is. You don't know why your opponent is taunting. You don't know why they left the game. You don't know why they switched characters. You don't know why they're using a specific playstyle. And you certainly can't know when your opponent is feeling mad, or arrogant, or stubborn.

When taunting, is your opponent being a pre-pubescent ******* that's arrogantly enjoying their temporary "superiority" towards you, or iare they just happy they managed to get a point and wanted a way to express it?

Instead of picturing your opponent as an angry kid with a whiny attitude with no real basis, picture someone with a smile on their face having as much fun with the game as you're trying to have, and maybe you'll enjoy the online mode a little bit more.

That is a very good point and a lot more useful than most feedback I've seen. I did edit my post to clarify that although taunts can be irritating at times, I understand that people use them for different things, some being douchey, some not, and that's ok. I just think it would be cool to add a GG taunt.

Thank you though for a well thought out and well said response instead of just being like "you take it too seriously LOL, stop whining! Etc."

 

[Kikaioh]

II just want additional taunts that signify good sportsmanship

I agree. It's strange they didn't think of this when they developed the game, or at least when they translated it.

 

[KingTeo]

My taunt fix: Preset words for Random For Glory matches.

Phrases such as: Good game (gg), Nice Hit, Oops, Sorry, Okay, Again, Last one, Bye. This is Nintendo after all so I doubt they would put something like "Haha".

You say this, and it should really be this simple, but the sad thing is that adding in actual messages that you can actually say wouldn't help the communication situation at all.

"Nice hit" "Oops" "sorry" "Good game" imagine someone saying any of these after a kill and they almost immediately take on a sarcastic connotation. It's all about the way you choose to perceive what the gesture means. Whether it's a taunt or a premade message, people will take offense to it if they just happen to be in the right mood.

424

 

[Vash_VisionZ]

I guess I never really think that deep about taunts. They are just kind of there too me. Even if somebody spams them, it doesn't offend me in any way. Never really given it much thought.

 

[Riskman]

I just like some character's taunts, so I use them. I don't ALWAYS taunt after a KO, but with certain characters I just like one specific taunt so I use it a lot, mostly after a silly KO from either me or whoever I'm playing against.

If somebody abuses something easy that works well in their favor in a matchup a lot and then taunts after a KO, then it's a little annoying (For example, if in Brawl a Marth player did his infinite grab on my Ness, and after they got their easy KO they decide to taunt), and then I can see how you'd see it as something antagonistic.

Generally, though, I like throwing out a couple taunts every now and then and I like it when the opponent does too, nothing wrong with using them every so often or a lot. If you don't like them that's fine, but don't tell to stop doing them altogether because that's like telling them to stop having fun.

 

[RespawningJesus]

There is nothing to fix about taunts. Most of this negativity about taunts comes from a person's assumptions of their opponent when there is no concrete evidence to base it off of. If your jimmies get rustled, then that is just a product of your own design, not your opponent's.

 

[aman]

I'm a type of guy who doesnt care about that,instead i fire back with som more power

 

[Flaxr XIII]

The opponent's Victory Screen says they are good.
Taunting after SD's and other things says they are good AND they want to be an *** about it.
That's the difference.

So what if the opponent gets the Victory Screen from an SD? He clearly didn't earn it. Does that make him an ass? And what if he did earn that kill? He earns the right to taunt.

 

[Kikaioh]

It seems people are kind of overlooking what the word 'taunt' means. There isn't really a context where 'taunting' is considered inoffensive or sportsmanlike, and it's bizarre that anyone would try to twist the word to mean something that it isn't (pulling out the dictionary definition, an insulting gibe or sarcasm, scornful reproach or challenge).

Though it may just be an unfortunate choice of words for the English translation, it would still be nice to have a labeled feature for expressing good will towards your opponents, as opposed to just having 'taunts'. Or if they just changed the name back to "appeals", or something else neutral like gestures/poses.

 

[Code Bread]

It seems people are kind of overlooking what the word 'taunt' means. There isn't really a context where 'taunting' is considered inoffensive or sportsmanlike, and it's bizarre that anyone would try to twist the word to mean something that it isn't (pulling out the dictionary definition, an insulting gibe or sarcasm, scornful reproach or challenge).

Though it may just be an unfortunate choice of words for the English translation, it would still be nice to have a labeled feature for expressing good will towards your opponents, as opposed to just having 'taunts'. Or if they just changed the name back to "appeals", or something else neutral like gestures/poses.

You're offended by them because the dictionary says to be?

 

[tmonty17]

You're offended by them because the dictionary says to be?

I think you're missing the point of what he is saying. The word taunt, by definition, is supposed to be insulting. So people saying it's not supposed to be offensive, they are wrong by definition. Whether they meant it to be offensive or not is a completely different argument.