FitNESS ~ Pimpin' Those Frames (WIP)

[rPSIvysaur]

+New Ness Moveset Data Thread+

Moveset Key:

Jab 1: [J1]
Jab 2: [J2]
Jab 3: [J3]
Dash Attack: [DA1]
Forward Tilt: [FT1]
Up Tilt: [UT1]
Down Tilt: [DT1]
Forward Smash: [FS1]
Down Smash: [DS1]
Down Smash Charge: [DS2]
Up Smash: [US1]
Up Smash Charge: [US2]
Standing Grab: [SG1]
Dash Grab: [DG1]
Pivot Grab: [PG1]
Neutral Air: [NA1]
Down Air: [DA2]
Up Air: [UA1]
Forward Air: [FA1]​

+Terminology+​

[collapse=Terminology]
Auto-cancel: The window of frames in which an Aerial will NOT recieve it's normal landing lag. Applies to all Aerials.

Base Knockback (BKB): The intial, static knockback of an attack. Characters always get knocked back by this amount regardless of damage.

Charge: The first frame an attack is able to be charged. Applies to Smashes and certain Special Attacks.

Damage: The amount of damage an attack (NOT stale) inflicts on the opponent. Measured in Damage Percent.

Earliest Jab Flow : The earliest frame that a jab can flow into the next. This is only used if the jab connects with something. Applies to Jabs only.

Earliest Jab Loop: The earliest frame that a jab can loop back to Jab 1. This is the frame used when you are holding down the "A" button and the Jab does not connect with anything. Applies to Jabs only.

Frame Advantage: This will be labeled as ADVANTAGE in the data below. This is how soon you can act in relation to your opponent after you hit their shield with some attack. This will usually be a negative number(i.e. they will be able to act sooner than you can). This is a very useful tool in determining which attacks are safe and which are not.

Frame Advantage Formula: The formula for Frame Advantage is: [Hit Frame] + [Shield Stun + Shield Hitlag] - [Duration + Hitlag], where the Duration is 1 frame less than the IASA Frame of an attack, and the Hit Frame used is the 1st frame the hitbox emerges. Keep this in mind, as hitting with a later portion of a given hitbox will produce a better Frame Advantage overall, naturally.

Helpless Frames: The frames where a character cannot perform any action until a certain requirement is met, usually touching the ground or grabbing the ledge.

Hit on: The frames an attack can hit your opponent. If an attack hits more than once, it will have multiple hitboxes, and will be noted as such.

Hitlag: These are the frames of an attack where both you and your opponent are "frozen." Hitlag only occurs if an attack successfully connects with something.

Hitlag Multiplier: This is a value the game uses to modify the hitlag of an attack. The default multiplier is "x1," which essentially keeps the hitlag to it's normal value. This value will only be listed if it is NOT "x1."

IASA: "Interuptable As Soon As" frame. This is the frame where you can interrupt the current action with another one.

Invincibility: The frames in which you are impervious to attacks. Applies to Dodges and actions From the Ledge.

Knockback Growth (KBG) : The value that determines how much the knockback scales with damage. This is the additional distance a target is knocked back proportional to the damage.

SDI Multiplier: Smash Directional Influence Multiplier. This is a value the game uses to modify how easy it is to SDI attacks. The default multiplier is "x1," which essentially keeps the "SDI-ability" to it's normal value. This value will only be listed if it is NOT "x1."

Shield Damage: A modifier that determines how much extra damage an attack does to a shield. For example, DK's Headbutt and Marth's Shield Breaker have very high Shield Damage modifiers.

Shield Hitlag: This is period of time your opponent is "frozen" when an attack hits their shield. This is usually the same amount of frames as the normal Hitlag of an attack.

Shield Stun: This is the period of time, immediately after Shield Hitlag, where your opponent is stuck in their shield(i.e. that cannot do anything). This is very important in calculating Frame Advantage.

Trajectory: The angle an attack sends your opponents upon connection, after the Hitlag. Measured in Degrees above zero, zero being the horizontal plane, measuring counterclockwise. If a trajectory is listed as - then it is relative to the hitboxes and position of hurboxes

Tripping Rate: The chance an attack has to trip an opponent. Attacks can only trip if they are sent into the ground with very low knockback (They don't get sent flying off of the ground). Measured in Percent.
[/collapse]

+Ground Attacks+​

Jab 1
Duration:
Animation Length: 20
IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-2
Hit On: 3-5
Cool Down: 6-20
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 3/3/3
Direction: -/-/-
BKB: 8/8/8
KBG: 50/50/50
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -16
Advantage to Jab Flow: -4
+
Jab Specific:
Earliest Jab Flow: 6
Earliest Jab Loop: 10
[J1]

Jab 2
Duration:
Animation Length: 20
IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-2
Hit On: 3-5
Cool Down: 6-20
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 2/2/2
Direction: 70/70/70
BKB: 8/8/8
KBG: 50/50/50
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 5
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -16
Advantage to Jab Flow: -7
+
Jab Specific:
Earliest Jab Flow: 6
Earliest Jab Loop: 10
[J2]

Jab 3
Duration:
Animation Length: 30
IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-5
Hit On: 6-10
Cool Down: 11-30
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 4/4/4
Direction: -/-/-
BKB: 40/40/40
KBG: 100/100/100
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -23
[J3]

Dash Attack
Duration:
Animation Length: 42
IASA: 40
Start-Up: 1-7
Hit On:
- 8-9
- 15-16
- 22-23
Cool Down: 24-40
+
Hitbox 1:
Damage: 5/5/5
Direction: 0/100/-
BKB: 0/60/15
KBG: 100/70/100
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 8
+
Hitbox 2:
Damage: 4
Direction: 20
BKB: 0
KBG: 100
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 4
Direction: 100
BKB: 70
KBG: 100
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -16
[DA1]

Forward Tilt
Duration:
Animation Length: 35
IASA: 35
Start-Up: 1-7
Hit On: 8-13
Cool Down: 14-35
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 11/11
Direction: -/-
BKB: 12/12
KBG: 100/100
SDI Multiplier: 1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 3
Advantage: -24
[FT1]

Up Tilt
Duration:
Animation Length: 40
IASA: 32
Start-Up: 1-4
Hit On: 5-10
Cool Down: 11-32
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 7/7
Direction: 96/96
BKB: 42/42
KBG: 126/126
SDI Multiplier: 1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 3
Advantage: -24
[UT1]

Down Tilt
Duration:
Animation Length: 14
IASA: 14
Start-Up: 1-2
Hit On: 3-5
Cool Down: 5-14
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 4/4/4
Direction: 0/0/0
BKB: 3/3/3
KBG: 20/20/20
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -10
Advantage to loop?: -2 (unconfirmed)
[DT1]

Forward Smash
Duration:
Animation Length: 57
IASA: 56
Start-Up: 1-21
Before Charge: 1-6
After Charge: 7-21
Hit On: 22-24
Cool Down: 25-56
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 12/14/16/18
Direction: -/-/-/-
BKB: 50/50/50/50
KBG: 62/62/62/62
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 14
Shield Stun: 8
Advantage: -26
[FS1]

Down Smash
Duration:
Animation Length: 63
IASA: 57
Start-Up: 1-12
Before Charge: 1-12
After Charge: n/a
Hit On: 13-35
Cool Down: 36-57
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 13
Direction: 55
BKB: 90
KBG: 60
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -40
[DS1]

Down Smash Charge
Duration:
Animation Length: 73
IASA: 13-73
Start-Up: 1-21
Hit On: 22-73
Cool Down: -
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 4
Direction: 110
BKB: 0
KBG: 100
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 3
Advantage: 2
[DS2]

Up Smash
Duration:
Animation Length: 63
IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-12
Before Charge: 1-12
After Charge: n/a
Hit On: 13-36
Cool Down: 37-63
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 9>13
Direction: 50
BKB: 90>70
KBG: 60
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 8
Shield Stun: 3
Advantage: -47
[US1]

Up Smash Charge
Duration:
Animation Length: 73
IASA: 13-73
Start-Up: 1-22
Hit On: 23-73
Cool Down: -
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 4
Direction: 110
BKB: 0
KBG: 100
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 3
Advantage: 2
[US2]

+Grabs+​

Standing Grab
Frame Data:
Animation Length: 35
Start-Up: 1-5
Grab On: 6-7
Cool Down: 8-35
[SG1]

Dash Grab
Frame Data:
Animation Length: 36
Start-Up: 1-7
Grab On: 8-9
Cool Down: 10-36
[DG1]

Pivot Grab
Frame Data:
Animation Length: 36
Start-Up: 1-5
Grab On: 6-7
Cool Down: 8-36
[PG1]

+Aerials+​

Neutral Air
Duration:
Animation Length: 40
Aerial IASA: 36
Start-Up: 1-4
Hit On: 5-24
Cool Down: 25-36
Early Autocancel: ∞-5
Late Autocancel: 27-∞
Landing Lag: 18
+
Hitbox:
Damage:
Direction: 11/11/11 > 7/7/7
BKB: 20/20/20 > 10/10/10
KBG: 100/100/100
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -28
Optimal Autocancel Advantage: -19
Optimal Land Cancel Advantage: -16
[NA1]

Down Air
Duration:
Animation Length: 60
Aerial IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-19
Hit On: 20-29
Cool Down: 30-60
Early Autocancel: ∞-19
Late Autocancel: 30-∞
Landing Lag: 28
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 12 > 9
Direction: 270 > 361
BKB: 90
KBG: 70
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -36
Optimal Autocancel Advantage: -6
Optimal Land Cancel Advantage: -15
[DA2]

Up Air
Duration:
Animation Length: 50
Aerial IASA: 42
Start-Up: 1-7
Hit On: 8-12
Cool Down: 13-42
Early Autocancel: ∞-8
Late Autocancel: 27-∞
Landing Lag: 12
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 13
Direction: 85
BKB: 14
KBG: 109
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 10
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -30
Optimal Autocancel Advantage: -15
Optimal Land Cancel Advantage: -9
[UA1]

Back Air
Duration:
Animation Length: 50
Aerial IASA: 36
Start-Up: 1-9
Hit On: 10-19
Cool Down: 20-36
Early Autocancel: ∞-10
Late Autocancel: 25-∞
Landing Lag: 12
+
Hitbox:
Damage: 15/15 > 8/8
Direction: -/-
BKB: 16/16 > 0/0
KBG: 100/100
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 10
Shield Stun: 5
Advantage: -21
Optimal Autocancel Advantage: -10
Optimal Land Cancel Advantage: -18
[BA1]

Forward Air
Duration:
Animation Length: 50
Aerial IASA: 40
Start-Up: 1-7
Hit On:
- 8-11
- 11-14
- 14-17
- 17-20
- 20-22
Cool Down: 23-40
Early Autocancel: ∞-8
Late Autocancel: 30-∞
Landing Lag: 12
+
Hitbox 1-4:
Damage: 2
Direction: -
BKB: 16
KBG: 60
SDI Multiplier: 1.5
+
Hitbox 5:
Damage: 3
Direction: -
BKB: 24
KBG: 145
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 3
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -19
Optimal Autocancel Advantage: -9
Optimal Land Cancel Advantage: -12
[FA1]

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Reserved for PSIence

 

[Yink]

Hey cool! Some new hitboxes. Thanks a lot rPSI

 

[Levitas]

it's gonna be fun seeing how low landing lag is off aerials again. iirc, that's where ness really shines

 

[Zatchiel]

Awesome, nice hitbox breakdowns, this is good 2 my ness.
Your a saver rocketpsince, thanks!

 

[Xebenkeck]

Just a question is there any move in which Ness has a frame ADvantage.

 

[Chuee]

Cooldown on ground moves was kinda ouch.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Having a frame advantage on block is EXTREMELY rare, so most likely not.

 

[Levitas]

if there were moves that actually had net advantage on block, it would be very possible that it'd turn out like ness's dair in 64, where you could just dair on shield until it broke :x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1nNScK4iuY

 

[Yink]

if there were moves that actually had net advantage on block, it would be very possible that it'd turn out like ness's dair in 64, where you could just dair on shield until it broke :x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1nNScK4iuY

I forgot all about that. So good.

 

[Today]

This looks like it took a lot of time.. BUt good job!!

 

[Yink]

What good would this be without an image?!

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yink too good

 

[Levitas]

Yink *is* too good.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

No, I believe Yink too good Levitas

 

[orange/xd]

yink so good she doesn't need is

 

[Yink]

/doesn'tletthisthreaddie

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'll finish this when I finish ZSS's b/c they need it more.

 

[Yink]

This needs to be brought back, because it's almost completed. Then we'll have both new Frame Data and hitboxes. I'm tempted to put them together into one thread.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

This needs to be brought back, because it's almost completed. Then we'll have both new Frame Data and hitboxes. I'm tempted to put them together into one thread.

Don't, because I already have them listed seperately in the directory and I don't want to edit it D :

 

[Yink]

Ok OK, I won't. Haha.

 

[Eagleye893]

Sorry, yink!!! I keep screwing this up...

While I agree completely with the majority of this guide and feel that all the info is gathered well and accurately, I must say, judging off of recent experimentation of mine with dtilt in general usage in matches against people, I feel dtilt has less IASA frames, or something similar. One thing, dtilt can chain into itself... But thats different and is referred to differently. Other thing, dtilt>grab (from trip just to assure) comes out VERY quickly for me, even with shielding then grabbing. Is it just that it appears to move fast, or am I just over-exaggerating the quickness of dtilt in terms of startup and cool down?

Also, bumping partly for avarice.