Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance | Final Chapter

[X1-12]

@Ran: Luxor is dead


lol.

confirmation that scum (Ran's scum team) didn't kill Lux.


@Cdubs:

Why didn't I include you changing your mind in my list? Because, idk, usually when townies have a COMPLETE 180 DEGREE READ SHIFT on someone they go ahead and explain what happened and why they changed their mind. Usually that's a pretty big deal for a town player, to have one of your reads just change sides entirely. It's not a big deal for scum though, since your reads are all falsified anyway, so of course it wouldn't occur to you to change one fake read for another. Point is, you didn't explain that shift at all, so even if you did genuinely change your mind, it's still crazy anti-town to just sit there and not tell us how it happened.

Don't posts like this just scream town from FF? He sounds like he is 100% legitly believing he's caught scum, not fake scumhunting at all. Do you not agree? or do you just not think thats enough to make him town

 

[X1-12]

@GLG: do you agree with the "@everyone" part of Rajam's #1907: A simple yes or No will suffice

@RR: When you get back you really need to take a stance, you've had plenty of time to think just post what you're thinking, it doesn't matter what it is, say what you think.

@Raz: I want some serious content when you get back. Scumpicks, reasoning. Comment on Rajam's #1907 too.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Yes.

Vote: Overswarm

 

[Cdubs1987]

@ X1

confirmation that scum (Ran's scum team) didn't kill Lux.

I disagree with this. I think its possible he left is "is Lux alive" as a red herring. I'm not saying he IS scum. I'm saying that comment establishes that he A. is not paying attention to whats going on at all, or B. Is scum or C. Both A and B.

@ everyone. I personally think, that it is quite likely that Ranmaru is the abductor. I'll explain thoughts later, how do others feel about this?

@ X1 again. I think town players can screw up and do things that can look terribly anti town. See Zen all game. A problem with MANY players in this game is that people seem to be changing stances and opinions on things, without explicitly stating their reasons for these things. Though I agree that scum can alter their reads at any time for convenience, but I'm not sure I'm convinced that because scum are faking their reads they are less likely to explain their reads. I think that scum may sometimes leave tells by giving poor reasons for changing reads. Unless you are stating that you are not giving your reasoning for a substantial read switch, not explaining your reasoning for switching stances is poor play as town or scum.

Given the way that this game is going, if FF is scum there is lots of fodder for him to use to justify mis-lynches. Basically an all you can eat buffet of mis-lynch fodder, which is why it is very difficult for me to tell if FF genuinely believes the things he is saying or not. Just because I disagree with him on a stance doesn't make him scum. Catching him make arguments that are bad justifications for a lynch would have been the nail in the coffin I have been looking for.

I still think FF is scum, and if OS came up town my argument would go to ****. That being said, I am willing to entertain the possibility that he was selectively reading and ignored the interaction between me and OS, but I find that very unlikely. I do not think his scum hunting posts really guarantee him town at all.

 

[Xiivi]

6/11 | 03.02.11 11:59AM EST

votee|voters
X1-12|frozenflame751/

Overswarm|Rajam/X1-12/Ranmaru/Cdubs1987/giraffelasergun/

Ranmaru|Overswarm/BeatStick/

No Vote|Raziek/Nicholas1024/Red Ryu/

 

[ranmaru]

Ran quick question did you read OS's posts before you decided to call them scummy or did you just decide to call them scummy?

Yes I have read them. I always read. They were posts I had had questioned earlier, but just now noted.

@Ran: Luxor is dead


lol.

Oh, I forgot. It's just that I was digging up posts and I responded to Luxor's post.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Yes I have read them. I always read. They were posts I had had questioned earlier, but just now noted.

Some of the questions you asked were answered in the exact same post you asked them in.

 

[Beat!]

Is OS at L-1?

 

[X1-12]

Yeah he is, 5 of the 6 votes needed.

 

[Overswarm]

I'll claim shortly. Girlfriend is here and wants to do relationship stuff, so you'll get it later.
Haven't had time to read much.

 

[giraffelasergun]

I'm going to unvote to avoid a quickhammer.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@ Red Ryu: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12229993&postcount=1838

I understand why it is likely that the reviver role was compulsive. That wasn't what I was asking. You specifically said that the mod's language suggested that it was compulsive. What did you mean by that?

His death was listed as murder'd so it seemed to me that he was killed and his reviver went off, the mod's language wasn't what mad me thing compulsive to revive more so there was only one person to revive and it triggered on death so there was no choice on it.

@RR: When you get back you really need to take a stance, you've had plenty of time to think just post what you're thinking, it doesn't matter what it is, say what you think.

Between the two, I kinda want to go for Ranmaru a bit more because of with that Luxor comment it adds more to him ignoring main events and skimming. I'm not liking how he going about this .

I am trying to take what you said into consideration at the end of D2, however I also want to wait on OS to see his claim before I decide on anything stronger, if he is gonna claim that can make or break my vote.

Today so far is Ranmaru vs OS.

Still I am tired I'll have more tomorrow about other people.

 

[Rajam]

OS, once you claim don't forget to answer this:

 

[Overswarm]

Not my actual role PM picture, obviously.

I'm Boyd, Mercenary Cop.

My sanity isn't confirmed, and I get a "guilty" or "not guilty" reading.

N1 I investigated Nich. I believed Nich to be town, but it was pretty obvious that he was going to live the rest of the game unless he was abducted or NKilled and there was no way to confirm his abilities. I got a "not guilty".

Also on Night 1, I was "assisted". I was able to use my ability twice on Night 2 only. I am not informed as to who my "friend" was (that word wasn't used, it is my own).

On Night 2, I investigated both X1 and CDubs.

X1 for obvious reasons, most especially the amount of connections it could show. I got a "not guilty" on X1, hence my sudden "X1 is town" and why I avoided pressuring him toDay rather than rallying with FF for a lynch.

CDubs I had an indie read pretty early on. His approach of the subject and his inactivity seemed a bit too strategic; as such, he was an easy choice for investigation. I got a "guilty". Despite getting the guilty, I didn't have much to make an actual case against him; previous posts about CDubs had little steam behind him and resulted only in strong OMGUS from CDubs.

I figured I'd have to claim toDay, but would have preferred to wait until after Ranmaru had been questioned more. His posts toDay have been strikingly scummy, as I have shown earlier toDay, and he's a legitimate scum read... but is not confirmed.

@Rajam - Post #1882. Start reading from there. How did you miss this? http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12244724&postcount=1862

If you want to see the meat of my case on Ranmaru: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12244971&postcount=1872

But it's important you read his agonizingly contradictory responses to that post.

Speaking of post #1862:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12244724&postcount=1862

Nich is town
X1 is town
CDubs is scum

but...

vote Ranmaru

Ran, reread your last post and please clarify anything you feel needs further clarification.

Or my first post of the Day:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12218101&postcount=1810

@mod request votecount

Nich is town
X1 is town
CDubs is scum

I'll have information later thanks to a friend who targeted me the Night prior to the last one. Do not claim, friend.

Going to wait for others to post a bit.

I don't think I have to reiterate how many times I said "Nich is town". I like to make things obvious after my death.

I would like to note that CDubs hasn't seemed too interested in Ranmaru all game. -_^

To recap:

Nich is town
X1 is town
CDubs is scum
Ranmaru is scummy

Any questions?

 

[Beat!]

Did you breadcrumb?

 

[X1-12]

1.) Quote/link any breadcrumbs of your role which you may have

2.) Explain fully your thought process/rationale for investigating Nich D1

3.) Which Night were you informed you had been "assisted"

4.) Answer the other part of Raj's question (see bolded):

@OS: Again, what did you see in Ranmaru that you changed from null to scum toDay? Explain why Ran is scum.

i.e what has he done toDay that's scummy then he'd not done before

5.) Why did you tell your 'friend' to not claim, why would a town assist/motivator ever claim in such a situation?




@FF: seriously where you at.

 

[X1-12]

1.) Quote/link any breadcrumbs of your role which you may have

2.) Explain fully your thought process/rationale for investigating Nich D1

3.) Which Night were you informed you had been "assisted"

4.) Answer the other part of Raj's question (see bolded):
i.e what has he done toDay that's scummy then he'd not done before

5.) Why did you tell your 'friend' to not claim, why would a town assist/motivator ever claim in such a situation?

These are all @Overswarm: if its not crystal clear

 

[Rajam]

I don't believe this

Lynch OS

OS who do you believe allowed you to use your ability twice N2?

Would like to hear from everyone about this, specially from Cdubs and FF

 

[Rajam]

Don't lynch him yet though, wait until others respond

 

[Overswarm]

1.) Quote/link any breadcrumbs of your role which you may have

I don't breadcrumb my role, I simply state my opinion in such a way that it is obvious upon my flip what they are. Reading Day2 you can see pretty obviously that I consider Nich to be uber town. Reading Day3 it's even more obvious and I just made a list format since I figured I'd be forced to claim.

I did do some things, such as asking Raziek early on D2 about Nich's role and what he thought about it, but that was just trying to play off the knowledge I had that others did not. Knowing that Nich was town and was a PR, reactions to his role (especially being roleblocked) coudl be telling. But that's nothing concrete enough to say "look, this proves it", so whatever.

2.) Explain fully your thought process/rationale for investigating Nich D1

I prevented Nich from getting lynched on D1 nearly single-handedly. I very frequently stated that I thought he was town for multiple reasons and those reasons were primarily meta that proved accurate as the game went on. I see Nich play liek I would expect Nich as a power role to play, Nich claims a power role, etc., etc.

That said, if I was lynched or NKilled before a full claim, Nich would be cleared via my constant defense of him. We can't confirm his abilities in any way that we know, and his abilities sound exactly like a Janitor safe claim. He was also close to being lynched on D1.

Nicholas1024|giraffelasergun/X1-12/Zεη/BeatStick/Nabe/

Then GLG, the other lynch that I was on and pushed for over Nich, flips vanilla townie.

So to recap, we've got a player I protected based off of meta that was nearly lynched on D1 and survived in part due to my defense of him who was voted for first by GLG, the confirmed VT, who I helped lynch as opposed to Nicholas. In addition to this, Nich has a crazy claim that could easily have led town down the wrong path for a long, long time. If he had said he used his census ability and said "there were three scum on GLG's wagon", we would have been lynching systematically for quite some time and he'd be in the clear. In addition to this, he could easily use his anti-janitor ability to say "Hey guys, player X was scum and was a (role)" to make fake connections. None of which town can clear at any point.

As an example, what do you think would have happened to you if he had used his ability on Zen and said Zen was scum?

This was before he claimed roleblock or one-shot coroner or anything, but my reasoning would have been the same regardless. Nich's role was too dangerous to simply leave alone and it was entirely possible that I would die and it could be assumed I had investigated him. If I had gotten a guilty reading, I would have immediately gone against him, but instead I spent the start of D2 talking about how I felt Nich was town. I was obvious enough that upon my flip people would know to trust Nich.

3.) Which Night were you informed you had been "assisted"

N1, and I was told I could use my ability twice on Night 2 only.

4.) Answer the other part of Raj's question (see bolded):
i.e what has he done toDay that's scummy then he'd not done before

Did you not see the posts I made toDay? Ran made a post showing his "reads" that was incredibly scummy and then followed it up with even more scummy posts.

5.) Why did you tell your 'friend' to not claim, why would a town assist/motivator ever claim in such a situation?

People do stupid things, especially when they think they're being helpful. Raziek claimed openly without any pressure whatsoever with his name AND ability. While questioning Ranmaru and needing to determine if Ranmaru was my "friend" that assisted me, I didn't want someone else saying "that was me!". That would out his PR. All I need to know is that Ranmaru wasn't. Because if scum had the ability to give double ability to someone every Night, that would be pretty ridiculous, so I can make a safe assumption that whoever has that ability is more than likely town. It isn't confirmation, but it's enough to make me look elsewhere momentarily. Ranmaru showed he had no idea what the hell I was talking about, so I knew he wasn't my friend.

I don't believe this

Lynch OS

OS who do you believe allowed you to use your ability twice N2?

Why don't you believe my claim, Rajam? You didn't wait for a counter-claim, didn't ask questions, didn't wait for me to answer other's questions. Why are you so confident?

I'm just gonna go ahead and say "Nice try". I don't know who used the ability on me, and whoever did isn't someone I'm going to publicly out either as they are more than likely town.

This is an incredibly scummy post, Rajam.

 

[X1-12]

@Rajam: Do you think assist should claim? Bear in mind the following:

1.) OS could have been motivated and stlll be scum
2.) OS could have a scumpartner who motivated him
3.) It does out another PR regardless of whether it catches OS as scum or not.
4.) Everyone claiming 'not assist' does prove OS scum, but someone claiming assist doesn't prove it either way

 

[Rajam]

I don't understand why would someone target you N1 to allow you use your ability twice N2; that person had to have an incredible town read on you, despite you were the one that reduced D1 lynch to Nich or glg and I think Zen had an overall better town feel around him

 

[Rajam]

@Rajam: Do you think assist should claim? Bear in mind the following:

1.) OS could have been motivated and stlll be scum
2.) OS could have a scumpartner who motivated him
3.) It does out another PR regardless of whether it catches OS as scum or not.
4.) Everyone claiming 'not assist' does prove OS scum, but someone claiming assist doesn't prove it either way

I just want to know what kind of thought proccess the possible motivator followed, but I guess you're right, better don't claim.

 

[Overswarm]

I don't understand why would someone target you N1 to allow you use your ability twice N2; that person had to have an incredible town read on you, despite you were the one that reduced D1 lynch to Nich or glg and I think Zen had an overall better town feel around him

You're the only one that seems caught up on that Rajam. I'm really not quite sure why. You were on the GLG lynch. I started saying "the lynch is between Nich and GLG" because it was between the two. They had the most votes. Zen attempted to start a seperate wagon and almost gave town a no lynch; the only reason we got one was because Luxor started a deadline extension.

Why do you think Zen had an overall "better town feel" around him?

Do you not remember his twilight play? He was attempting to direct multiple power roles. He even suggested the cop investigate him. This would have outed me on day two because I wouldn't have been able to vote. That is not pro-town. That is self-preservation at best, and a scum gambit at worst.

I'd also like to note that Raizek decided to send his message to me on N1 and fully expected me to back up his claim on D2. I doubt he'd do that if he thought I was scum.

Why do you think people thought I was scummy on D1, Rajam?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think now, I'm willing to listen to OS about this. Ok so OS you say you are a cop, can anyone confirm this somehow?

Alright two ways we can go about this.

1.) Believe the claim and lynch Cdub1987 or Ranmaru.
2.) Call him out for being scum and go for a lynch on OS.

I do feel like OS is influencing town a bit, but I'm not sure if this is because of his cop role or him being scum. I'm leaning more towards him being town and going for a Ranmaru Lynch honestly, I feel like Ranmaru even with his recent play his making me cringe.

 

[Overswarm]

Even with his recent play?

I'm pretty sure his recent play is what highlights my interests. His earlier play might not have been stellar, but it wasn't nearly as scummy as his 'reads' toDay.

And while a Ranmaru lynch would be fine and I have a scum read on him, CDubs is going to have to be the lynch for toDay. CDubs lynch will confirm my alignment and sanity, or if I'm insane it will get me lynched first thing toMorrow upon which my sanity will be shown to you guys. I doubt I'm insane though; Nich and X1 are not scum.

I have a provable power.

 

[X1-12]

@Red Ryu: Overswarm is proposing we lynch someone who is confirmed innocent to him.


Lynching CDubs doesn't confirm your power OR your sanity. If he flips town there's nothing to say you aren't just scum who knows CDubs is not in your team so you claim an inno on him.

Even if you are the cop, him flipping town means you could be sane or naive, so not confirming your sanity.

Your power is not provable

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Red Ryu: Overswarm is proposing we lynch someone who is confirmed innocent to him.

Huh?

He claims he looked at Nich, you and Cdubs, not Ranmaru.

Lynching CDubs doesn't confirm your power OR your sanity. If he flips town there's nothing to say you aren't just scum who knows CDubs is not in your team so you claim an inno on him.

Even if you are the cop, him flipping town means you could be sane or naive, so not confirming your sanity.

Your power is not provable

Well either way I'll be keeping a watch on things to see if he is legit or not with his posts. So far on what he has posted there are some questions, some I now want to ask Cdub1987.

@Cdub: What do you make of this with OS?

 

[X1-12]

@RR:

And while a Ranmaru lynch would be fine and I have a scum read on him, CDubs is going to have to be the lynch for toDay. CDubs lynch will confirm my alignment and sanity, or if I'm insane it will get me lynched first thing toMorrow upon which my sanity will be shown to you guys. I doubt I'm insane though; Nich and X1 are not scum.

check bolded

 

[Overswarm]

@Red Ryu: Overswarm is proposing we lynch someone who is confirmed innocent to him.


Lynching CDubs doesn't confirm your power OR your sanity. If he flips town there's nothing to say you aren't just scum who knows CDubs is not in your team so you claim an inno on him.

Even if you are the cop, him flipping town means you could be sane or naive, so not confirming your sanity.

Your power is not provable

When CDubs flips as anti-town, you'll know my power is proven because I claimed CDubs as scum. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

If CDubs flips town, it shows that I'm insane. You guys wouldn't believe that, however, and I would be lynched. Upon my flip you'd find that I was, and my sanity would be proven.

To reiterate: I've stated multiple times that CDubs is scum. Not town.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

But Cdubs isn't confirmed town either, this is where I'm kinda confused by you statement about him being confirmed town.

 

[Rajam]

You're the only one that seems caught up on that Rajam. I'm really not quite sure why. You were on the GLG lynch. I started saying "the lynch is between Nich and GLG" because it was between the two. They had the most votes. Zen attempted to start a seperate wagon and almost gave town a no lynch; the only reason we got one was because Luxor started a deadline extension.

Why do you think Zen had an overall "better town feel" around him?

Do you not remember his twilight play? He was attempting to direct multiple power roles. He even suggested the cop investigate him. This would have outed me on day two because I wouldn't have been able to vote. That is not pro-town. That is self-preservation at best, and a scum gambit at worst.

I'd also like to note that Raizek decided to send his message to me on N1 and fully expected me to back up his claim on D2. I doubt he'd do that if he thought I was scum.

Why do you think people thought I was scummy on D1, Rajam?

I was on the glg lynch because I didn't want No Lynch, and you already reduced it to two options. I always wanted to lynch Ran

Personal perception. I think, at least D1, he was best supported by players like me, Luxor, BeatStick, and I don't recall exactly but I guess there were also others (X1?). Not everyone of course, and also not everyone made explicit their support I guess, but they didn't go against Zen or his ideas.

About his PRs direction, we didn't know about his role until late D2, so all that's irrelevant for D1's point of view on Zen.

Raziek is new at mafia and playing mostly random and poor. Just look at how weird his claim timing was.

And I didn't say people thought you were scummy, I just stated that it was too soon for anyone to have a strong town read on you, and on anyone overall, including maybe Zen as well. I just don't understand why would town motivator use his ability on you N1, or why he used his ability at all N1...

 

[Rajam]

OS:

If Cdubs flips scum, who else do you think is scum?

Same question if Cdubs flips town or indy

 

[X1-12]

OK misread the results a little there. lol, that's embarassing.

 

[Rajam]

Not understanding X1; didn't OS said he got scum on Cdubs?

Still waiting for Cdubs and FF

And requesting prod on Raziek

 

[Overswarm]

OS:

If Cdubs flips scum, who else do you think is scum?

Same question if Cdubs flips town or indy

Again, "nice try". Why are you fishing? I'll investigate who I want. It's already been stated that Ranmaru has caught my attention. You're starting to, because your posts look a lot like panic. Who am I going to investigate? That's up to me.

 

[X1-12]

Yes OS, you CAN investigate who you want, in the meanwhile it would be nice if you told us your scumreads.

 

[Rajam]

I never asked you who would you investigate. It just would be nice to know next Day that you used your ability in a logical way depending your reads

 

[X1-12]

@OS: Why have you not voted CDubs at all toDay? When he has been confirmed scum to you?

 

[Overswarm]

Yes OS, you CAN investigate who you want, in the meanwhile it would be nice if you told us your scumreads.

Currently Ranmaru is on my list due to his recent behavior. Rajam's recent actions have been telling but I'd require a re-read of him to see if anything stuck.

Rajam/X1-12/Ranmaru/Cdubs1987/giraffelasergun

You're town. GLG is town.

CDubs is scum.

I'd believe at least one other on that wagon is scum by sheer numbers unless both abductees are scum, which is doubtful. My current read is on Ranmaru.

I never asked you who would you investigate. It just would be nice to know next Day that you used your ability in a logical way depending your reads

I like how your first sentence says "I never asked anything about who you would investigate!" and your second says "I just want to know who you would investigate."

Who I investigate is my own call and it won't necessarily be one of my scum reads. I can just as well investigate someone I'm completely null on and town gains just as much an advantage. I am painfully aware that there is a roleblocker in this game, and I'd rather them have to roleblock me blindly rather than simply make an informed decision.

@OS: Why have you not voted CDubs at all toDay? When he has been confirmed scum to you?

How, exactly, do you think I'd get a wagon on CDubs going other than straight up claiming?

I simply posted my results in an easy-to-read format after my flip and went on playing the game. Had CDubs posted anything I could attack I would have, but he didn't exactly post much toDay that wasn't primarily anti-OS until I was already at L-1. Getting town into an OMGUS WIFOM situation is not productive.

More importantly, Ran acted scummy. Ignoring that instead of calling him out to push for someone who is confirmed scum is idiotic. The moment I was killed CDubs would be lynched the following day if I posted things like "CDubs is scum" repeatedly, but people probably wouldn't pick up on Ranmaru's post.

One thing I'm interested in is the connection between Rajam/Ranmaru/CDubs. CDubs and Rajam have been fairly distant, and both Rajam and CDubs have pressured Ranmaru but never very hard. I haven't read enough into it to make any solid claims on connections though.