Fire Emblem Character General Support Thread [WIP]

[Opossum]

Ehh I think in this case Opossum is more listing their wants so I don't see any issue with their picks there. At the end of the day realistically no Fire Emblem character probably has any chance at the DLC.

Pretty much this. Especially since I'm in the boat that believes the Figter Pass will be all third parties, haha.

I think no cuts would be great and your picks seem like good ones. I'm guessing you would want Celica as a unique fighter over an echo? And would Caeda be on her pegasus? How do you see that working?

Definitely unique for Celica. Her swordstyle and method of spellslinging are much different from Robin's, to the point that being an echo doesn't make much sense to me.

As for Caeda, I believe that of the mounted unit types, Pegasus Knights are the easiest to make work, as their flight bypasses the issue of a horse awkwardly hanging off a ledge. I have a full moveset done for her over in the Caeda thread.

 

[Deleted member]

If we're talking cuts, I wouldn't really want to cut anyone. Ideally, Everyone is Here would stay as Everyone is Here in the future. With how it seemed to be for this game though, it'll probably be harder in the eventual Smash 6. Therefore, I'd just cut Lucina and Chrom. Them and Corrin are the ones who practically made the too many FE characters memes. Robin fills Awakening's representation quite nicely to never need Lucina and Chrom always disgusted me conceptually because we already have an FE echo and Chrom is nowhere near as hype as Lyn. If I had to choose one more, probably Corrin or Roy. Corrin is only acceptable because he has a unique fighting style but his game is nothing to celebrate and Roy appeals to the good ol' Melee days I grew up in but is still a clone of sorts.

If I had to choose the FE representatives, and not just echoes, I would just choose Hector or Lyn.

-Hector, as much as he'd play like Ike, can actually have some variance. He would have a projectile with hand axes and can take skills from future FE games to implement into his moveset. He would also give us a fairly boisterous personality because he loves to fight but is not stoic about it (unlike Ike). This is something we miss in most of the FE reps: Personality. (The only personality I really like is Robin because you can understand his introvert intellect character without ever needing to play the game, unlike Ike who is a great character but is not made evident in Smash.) Hector would be blue haired, but he has an axe and is not afraid to express how happy he is to be there and kick your butt. These are traits not found in FE representation yet. I think if a character had personality worth anything, it would make people outside of FE more open to the character. If the character is just a vessel with a sword, the only thing that makes them memorable is the meta, which is probably the only reason Chrom, Lucina, and Corrin are even remembered.

-Lyn is hard to justify. Inside the fanbase, she's the most popular lord next in line to be represented. She would also be one of the few instances where an assist trophy is upgraded into a full character. What would she do? Well I'm not sure how differently she can swing her sword than Marth, but maybe developers can take advantage of her speed. In game, she's so fast she practically zooms across the screen, so having a fighting style based completely on speed, almost like Sonic, would be great. Add that she also has a bow, and now she doesn't need to be an echo at all. Her design is unique, people have grown into seeing her be in Smash Bros since Brawl, it would be further female representation, and the fans would appreciate her. She's who I want next for FE because she ticks so many boxes.

 

[shocktarts17]

Definitely unique for Celica. Her swordstyle and method of spellslinging are much different from Robin's, to the point that being an echo doesn't make much sense to me.

As for Caeda, I believe that of the mounted unit types, Pegasus Knights are the easiest to make work, as their flight bypasses the issue of a horse awkwardly hanging off a ledge. I have a full moveset done for her over in the Caeda thread.

Hmm I think she could 100% work as an echo but I don't see any reason why she couldn't be unique either.

That said I just don't see the mounted unit that isn't . I'm sure there are ways to make it work but I'm really struggling to picture it.

If we're talking cuts, I wouldn't really want to cut anyone. Ideally, Everyone is Here would stay as Everyone is Here in the future. With how it seemed to be for this game though, it'll probably be harder in the eventual Smash 6. Therefore, I'd just cut Lucina and Chrom. Them and Corrin are the ones who practically made the too many FE memes. Robin fills Awakening's representation quite nicely to never need Lucina and Chrom always disgusted me conceptually because we already have an FE echo and Chrom is nowhere near as hype as Lyn. If I had to choose one more, probably Corrin or Roy. Corrin is only acceptable because he has a unique fighting style but his game is nothing to celebrate and Roy appeals to the good ol' Melee days I grew up in but is still a clone of sorts.

If I had to choose the FE representatives, and not just echoes, I would just choose Hector or Lyn.

-Hector, as much as he'd play like Ike, can actually have some variance. He would have a projectile with hand axes and can take skills from future FE games to implement into his moveset. He would also give us a fairly boisterous personality because he loves to fight but is not stoic about it (unlike Ike). This is something we miss in most of the FE reps: Personality. (The only personality I really like is Robin because you can understand his introvert intellect character without ever needing to play the game, unlike Ike who is a great character but is not made evident in Smash.) Hector would be blue haired, but he has an axe and is not afraid to express how happy he is to be there and kick your butt. These are traits not found in FE representation yet. I think if a character had personality worth anything, it would make people outside of FE more open to the character. If the character is just a vessel with a sword, the only thing that makes them memorable is the meta, which is probably the only reason Chrom and Lucina are even remembered.

-Lyn is hard to justify. Inside the fanbase, she's the most popular lord next in line to be represented. She would also be one of the few instances where an assist trophy is upgraded into a full character. What would she do? Well I'm not sure how differently she can swing her sword than Marth, but maybe developers can take advantage of her speed. In game, she's so fast she practically zooms across the screen, so having a fighting style based completely on speed, almost like Sonic, would be great. Add that she also has a bow, and now she doesn't need to be an echo at all. Her design is unique, people have grown into seeing her be in Smash Bros since Brawl, it would be further female representation, and the fans would appreciate her. She's who I want next for FE because she ticks so many boxes.

I like your comment about Hector and agree that it does seem that the FE cast doesn't really portray their personality much, though I think that could be said of a lot of characters not just FE ones. That said I disagree with your statement about Fates. Say what you will about the story or the characters but its currently the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time and shows that the series is only getting bigger as it goes, I think that is definitely something to celebrate. Plus I think there is a lot to love in Fates and that people get too hung up on hating it because its Fates.

 

[Deleted member]

That said I disagree with your statement about Fates. Say what you will about the story or the characters but its currently the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time and shows that the series is only getting bigger as it goes, I think that is definitely something to celebrate. Plus I think there is a lot to love in Fates and that people get too hung up on hating it because its Fates.

Hm. That is definitely something to celebrate. Maybe my issue is just with Corrin being the only representation of Fates because out of everything good about FE Fates, Corrin is not one of those things. He's actually one of the worst things about it. A stage or assist trophy with more music than Lost In Thoughts All Alone would make him less like the advert he was meant to be. So instead of cutting him, they could add to him and show off what made Fates actually worth interest.

 

[shocktarts17]

Hm. That is definitely something to celebrate. Maybe my issue is just with Corrin being the only representation of Fates because out of everything good about FE Fates, Corrin is not one of those things. He's actually one of the worst things about it. A stage or assist trophy with more music than Lost In Thoughts All Alone would make him less like the advert he was meant to be. So instead of cutting him, they could add to him and show off what made Fates actually worth interest.

While I agree Corrin got in for promotion, at the end of the day they're in and they have a cool moveset so I don't really see any issues with them sticking around. I would have loved to see Azura or even Garon as fighters instead because they would be so much more unique but I think Corrin does a fine job representing Fates.

 

[Deleted member]

I like your comment about Hector and agree that it does seem that the FE cast doesn't really portray their personality much, though I think that could be said of a lot of characters not just FE ones.

Sorry for tangenting, but this is actually an interesting point to discuss just for fun. I just want to list out what works and what does not from my perspective. It'll tie into FE representation as well.

Pit and Palutena got the Palutena Guidances to show off their interactions. DK and Dedede has become more expressive throughout the years. Ridley and Dark Samus always have a menacing air around them. Ganon lost the old man fat, got a sword, is actually smiling, and looks like a king of evil. Bayonetta retains her sexy badass style. Ryu is literally characterized in his own game as someone who just wants to fight. Fox is serious, Falco is cocky, and Wolf is threatening. Meta Knight, while being another stoic sword fighter, has more personality than in his original games by talking and having this kickass guitar victory theme to exemplify his menace. Snake still has the codec calls, even if they're just Brawl's. Little Mac gets bruises the more he's injured, which is totally realistic to Punch Out. Simon, while not being that expressive, carries over so much from classic Castlevania to where his personality is supposed to be one-dimensional. Robin shows off one of the most core mechanics of FE (weapon durability) and requires a bit of strategy to work with him. This play style crystallizes around his introverted tactician personality. You can't argue against how expressive King K Rool is.

Cloud is probably an instance where we can actually criticize his lack of represented personality because it's heavily based around his modern portrayal than his original FE 7 one, from what I hear. Lucas and Ness don't really highlight their own actions within their game well. Hell, most of their movesets are taken from other party members. Ness doesn't even do the fuzzy pickles pose. Pokemon (that are not adorable or the conceptually awesome Pokemon Trainer) are pretty inexpressive. Nothing about Mewtwo really shows off how much of a monster he was back in the day, Lucario is a stoic monk, and Greninja is a stoic ninja. Incineroar is the break in trend I'm glad we have. Bowser Jr. lost uniqueness due to the Koopalings gimmick, which I'm bitter over the more I think about it. Shulk? He doesn't look very interesting or representative of himself. Megaman is give or take depending on how you look at him. His more stoic design might actually appeal to some because of how translated it is from the original 8-bit sprite, but it might not work for others.

There are hits and there are misses for sure throughout the entire roster. Fire Emblem's problem is that it consistently misses unfortunately. Everyone who isn't Robin is characterized as very serious and steadfast with the same serious glare. It is hard to differentiate most of their personalities other than small nuances, which is not good and is an area Lyn would unfortunately fall into if she was put in. I think if they just made characters more like how one would see them in Fire Emblem, they could work better. In that area, Corrin actually succeeds. People opened up to him on reveal day when they saw how he played and his movement is representative to how weirdly acrobatic he is in Fates.

Ultimately, the largest issue is just that three of their reps are clones of Marth so it's hard to see what's really unique about their portrayal.

 

[Deleted member]

While I agree Corrin got in for promotion, at the end of the day they're in and they have a cool moveset so I don't really see any issues with them sticking around. I would have loved to see Azura or even Garon as fighters instead because they would be so much more unique but I think Corrin does a fine job representing Fates.

Ultimately, I don't want to cut him. He just feels lacking compared to pretty much any other unique newcomer.

 

[shocktarts17]

Sorry for tangenting, but this is actually an interesting point to discuss just for fun. I just want to list out what works and what does not from my perspective. It'll tie into FE representation as well.

Pit and Palutena got the Palutena Guidances to show off their interactions. DK and Dedede has become more expressive throughout the years. Ridley and Dark Samus always have a menacing air around them. Ganon lost the old man fat, got a sword, is actually smiling, and looks like a king of evil. Bayonetta retains her sexy badass style. Ryu is literally characterized in his own game as someone who just wants to fight. Fox is serious, Falco is cocky, and Wolf is threatening. Meta Knight, while being another stoic sword fighter, has more personality than in his original games by talking and having this kickass guitar victory theme to exemplify his menace. Snake still has the codec calls, even if they're just Brawl's. Little Mac gets bruises the more he's injured, which is totally realistic to Punch Out. Simon, while not being that expressive, carries over so much from classic Castlevania to where his personality is supposed to be one-dimensional. Robin shows off one of the most core mechanics of FE (weapon durability) and requires a bit of strategy to work with him. This play style crystallizes around his introverted tactician personality. You can't argue against how expressive King K Rool is.

Cloud is probably an instance where we can actually criticize his lack of represented personality because it's heavily based around his modern portrayal than his original FE 7 one, from what I hear. Lucas and Ness don't really highlight their own actions within their game well. Hell, most of their movesets are taken from other party members. Ness doesn't even do the fuzzy pickles pose. Pokemon (that are not adorable or the conceptually awesome Pokemon Trainer) are pretty inexpressive. Nothing about Mewtwo really shows off how much of a monster he was back in the day, Lucario is a stoic monk, and Greninja is a stoic ninja. Incineroar is the break in trend I'm glad we have. Bowser Jr. lost uniqueness due to the Koopalings gimmick, which I'm bitter over the more I think about it. Shulk? He doesn't look very interesting or representative of himself. Megaman is give or take depending on how you look at him. His more stoic design might actually appeal to some because of how translated it is from the original 8-bit sprite, but it might not work for others.

There are hits and there are misses for sure throughout the entire roster. Fire Emblem's problem is that it consistently misses unfortunately. Everyone who isn't Robin is characterized as very serious and steadfast with the same serious glare. It is hard to differentiate most of their personalities other than small nuances, which is not good and is an area Lyn would unfortunately fall into if she was put in. I think if they just made characters more like how one would see them in Fire Emblem, they could work better. In that area, Corrin actually succeeds. People opened up to him on reveal day when they saw how he played and his movement is representative to how weirdly acrobatic he is in Fates.

Ultimately, the largest issue is just that three of their reps are clones of Marth so it's hard to see what's really unique about their portrayal.

That's actually a really insightful analysis and I agree with everything you've said. So how would you fix this if you were in charge?

Ultimately, I don't want to cut him. He just feels lacking compared to pretty much any other unique newcomer.

For future reference you'll get in trouble with the mods if you double post, edit the second comment into your first post in the future.

And I think I agree with what you've said, compared to basically every non echo since the Smash 4 DLC cycle Corrin does kinda fall flat.

 

[Deleted member]

That's actually a really insightful analysis and I agree with everything you've said. So how would you fix this if you were in charge?

For Fire Emblem specifically, it's kind of hard. The problem is ingame, Marth, Ike, Roy, and Chrom are fairly serious, and Ike's uniqueness comes from how he isn't a lord so he's not as polite as others.

Personaly, Ike is fine. I accepted him in Brawl quite warmly. He played very differently from Marth and it translated well into his gruff and muscular appearance, especially in his Radiant Dawn costume.

Roy? Well Roy wasn't very unique in personality in his own game. They made him a better clone throughout the ages, though, but that's really all he has. Otherwise, replacing him with Ike in Brawl was really the better choice. If we had to cut FE clones, Roy probably would be the one I would not cut because he's the slower alternative to Marth without being Ike. If Wolf is fine to people, then so can Roy be. If people wanted Roy back to a point he was Smash 4 DLC, keeping Roy is a good idea.

Lucina and Chrom? Cut. We already have Awakening representation. It would allow people to see the more unique attributes of Roy and Marth too, if any. Lucina was already controversial upon reveal, and Chrom isn't making it better. People have been shown to be open to FE rep if they play differently, and not by just giving Chrom Ike's up-b. As a result, it would also make people more open to other FE characters by just decreasing how many Marths there are. New characters would as a result be given greater impact instead of just being "another Fire Emblem character."

Robin is perfect. I wouldn't change anything about him conceptually. One thing that makes lords feel the same is that since they have their legendary plot sword, they never tap into how weapons actually wear in FE, which is really big. Robin takes full advantage of that and he brings magic. Two things that represent Fire Emblem extroardinarily and here they are in one character. Conceptually, it's why I'm happy Chrom wasn't in Smash 4 when we have a magic man instead.

Corrin I wouldn't cut. They did their hardest to translate how he is in game into Smash. With that said, I would add to his representation. Give us a Fire Emblem Fates stage and more remixes than just Lost In Thoughts All Alone. Maybe even have Xander or Ryoma be an assist trophy. Aesthetically, Fates is more interesting than what Corrin makes it appear to be and he could be given a greater identity because of better representation.

Speaking of stages, I want better stages. Castle Siege doesn't take from a specific game scenario and the coliseum is very lifeless for something that's usually the riskiest, money-making, game-breaking mechanic in FE. Arena Ferox is a good start but platforms never really sprung up from the ground and I don't really remember it much from Awakening. I think if they took from specific chapters more, it would better represent what goes on, especially if they take full advantage of backgrounds. Maybe in Fire Emblem 9, where you're on that bridge with pitfalls and ballista, you could make that a stage and carry it over to Smash as stage hazards while dragons harmlessly fly around in the background. Or in Fire Emblem Fates, maybe you could have the Hoshido town hub and it switches between looking active, beautiful, and Japanese to ransacked by that one early game dark sword. Imagine Battle Before Dawn, FE 7 Chapter 26, being translated into Smash where Ursula in the background summons lightning. Maybe have an FE 1 or 3 map where a manakete stage boss comes in. There are so many chapter set pieces to where I think that is where inspiration should be drawn from.

In terms of newcomers, you already saw my thoughts on that. Lyn and Hector could very well work and are warmly requested to this day. Especially Lyn due to popularity.

For future reference you'll get in trouble with the mods if you double post, edit the second comment into your first post in the future.

Noted.

 

[SPEN18]

The thing about Corrin is that I don't really mind him being there as a Fates rep and transformation character to offer something different, but if I'm gonna cut a full unique then he's kind of the odd man out, the one I feel is least essential. Roy has been made more unique over time as you guys have pointed out, but he's still less effort than a full newcomer.

With marketing picks in general, I don't like adding characters before they've had time to cement some sort of legacy. There's too much room for recency bias to kick into gear, and I'd like to make sure that their popularity will last. Even if the game is out before the project plan, if it's still recent then in many cases I'm alright on holding off on it until the next game. Unfortunately, though, marketers don't think about the roster like I do.

Edit: also, on stages, I imagine Dragon's Gate as a stage for Lyn if she made it as a PC. Flat stage with walk-offs on both sides and the eerie gate itself in the background. Once in a while the Fire Dragon would come out and deal 37% damage if you get hit by one of its moves.

 

[shocktarts17]

The thing about Corrin is that I don't really mind him being there as a Fates rep and transformation character to offer something different, but if I'm gonna cut a full unique then he's kind of the odd man out, the one I feel is least essential. Roy has been made more unique over time as you guys have pointed out, but he's still less effort than a full newcomer.

With marketing picks in general, I don't like adding characters before they've had time to cement some sort of legacy. There's too much room for recency bias to kick into gear, and I'd like to make sure that their popularity will last. Even if the game is out before the project plan, if it's still recent then in many cases I'm alright on holding off on it until the next game. Unfortunately, though, marketers don't think about the roster like I do.

I think that't a fair thing to say but at the same time look at the number of fans who were crushed Rex didn't make it in, if we say there is a "too soon" then there will always be characters who might have been great but missed their shot.

That said I don't think that applies to Corrin, they were probably too soon lol.

 

[SPEN18]

look at the number of fans who were crushed Rex didn't make it in,

The thing is, Xenoblade 2 was definitely too new when the project plan was made.

But there's nothing stopping them from adding him in DLC now; for some reason they seem to have decided to pass on that. I'd argue that DLC would've been a great time for Rex to be added since his game is still on the same console as Ultimate but it's not so recent that it feels like a total marketing pick. And I think by now we can more accurately judge his significance to his series.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Everyone Is Here... why even talk about cuts?

 

[Idon]

Everyone Is Here... why even talk about cuts?

Why not?
It's a discussion topic like any other.

 

[SPEN18]

Everyone Is Here... why even talk about cuts?

I actually didn't like "Everyone is Here"

Plus it's probably not a realistic expectation for the series going forward

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone Is Here... why even talk about cuts?

Humoring a future Smash 6 where that might not have Everyone.

 

[shocktarts17]

The thing is, Xenoblade 2 was definitely too new when the project plan was made.

But there's nothing stopping them from adding him in DLC now; for some reason they seem to have decided to pass on that. I'd argue that DLC would've been a great time for Rex to be added since his game is still on the same console as Ultimate but it's not so recent that it feels like a total marketing pick. And I think by now we can more accurately judge his significance to his series.

Ehh I still think the DLC was decided fairly early, probably before XC2 came out so that't why he didn't get in.

Everyone Is Here... why even talk about cuts?

Without beating a dead horse with all the responses you've gotten, basically its the only realistic way I can see Fire Emblem getting any more new fighters at this point.

 

[SPEN18]

Ehh I still think the DLC was decided fairly early, probably before XC2 came out so that't why he didn't get in.

But it didn't have to be decided that early.

According to what they said in the Nov. 1 Direct they hadn't really started working on most of it. They could've waited or changed plans. If Rex is not included in DLC, which seems to be the case, I'm not blaming timing. And if we're really reaching, they aren't obligated to stop after the first Fighter's Pass, though I don't necessarily think a "wave 2" is a good idea (it would depend on who gets included; DLC is usually full of marketing blandness).

 

[shocktarts17]

But it didn't have to be decided that early.

According to what they said in the Nov. 1 Direct they hadn't really started working on most of it. They could've waited or changed plans. If Rex is not included in DLC, which seems to be the case, I'm not blaming timing. And if we're really reaching, they aren't obligated to stop after the first Fighter's Pass, though I don't necessarily think a "wave 2" is a good idea (it would depend on who gets included; DLC is usually full of marketing blandness).

Well I think if we agree that DLC is fairly 3rd party heavy then once you start negotiating for characters you don't want to have to go to one of them and say never mind we don't want your character any more lol.

 

[SPEN18]

Well I think if we agree that DLC is fairly 3rd party heavy then once you start negotiating for characters you don't want to have to go to one of them and say never mind we don't want your character any more lol.

I mean, it's not like 5 characters is set in stone. They could make it 6 if they wanted. Not that I'd expect them to do that for Rex, but if he was really that important to them then they could.

And yes, it's hard to go back on third party agreements and those take time, but if they planned for an all-third party DLC and that prevented them from including an important character of their own, Rex or otherwise, then once again I'm not blaming timing.

 

[shocktarts17]

I mean, it's not like 5 characters is set in stone. They could make it 6 if they wanted. Not that I'd expect them to do that for Rex, but if he was really that important to them then they could.

And yes, it's hard to go back on third party agreements and those take time, but if they planned for an all-third party DLC and that prevented them from including an important character of their own, Rex or otherwise, then once again I'm not blaming timing.

I wonder if there are things in the contracts with the other parties that say what percentage of the fighters pass they get? Would that affect them being able to add a 6th person to it?

And I think that's a good point but I'm sure timing is at least somewhat a part of it, just maybe not much.

 

[SPEN18]

I wonder if there are things in the contracts with the other parties that say what percentage of the fighters pass they get? Would that affect them being able to add a 6th person to it?

Again, there's nothing stopping them from selling Rex as a stand-alone or even a free bonus for buying the whole pack.

Timing may not have been ideal for Rex, but I don't view that as the primary reason that he isn't likely for DLC

 

[shocktarts17]

Again, there's nothing stopping them from selling Rex as a stand-alone or even a free bonus for buying the whole pack.

Timing may not have been ideal for Rex, but I don't view that as the primary reason that he isn't likely for DLC

I wonder if him getting a costume instead of being saved for DLC shows they aren't planning to do more DLC after the first fighter's pass?

 

[Rayleigh]

Unknown, but I would not call it dis-confirmation towards additional content.

Speaking in Hypotheticals, another remake of a past FE game (say, FE7) might be just the thing for a new, unique Fire Emblem character; get even more attention from outside the series' fans to focus on a cool-looking, new character (Say, Hector or Lyn) and drum up the hype within that series' fans for an old favorite. Also this is the part where I laugh at Eliwood not being a pick, despite being the main protag...I dunno, make him an Ike Echo because Durandal is a massive sword? Seriously, how does he go from a foil fencer to using a sword bigger than his horse to specializing in lances in FE6?

But that's assuming that there's plans for making another remake during the time of Smash 5, especially considering just how close Three Houses is on the horizon...and, I mean, sure; technically this character would be a promotional DLC pick, but at least it would be for a character whose proven their staying popularity within their franchise versus some unknown without shoes? That'll always bother me.

 

[Deleted member]

Unknown, but I would not call it dis-confirmation towards additional content.

Speaking in Hypotheticals, another remake of a past FE game (say, FE7) might be just the thing for a new, unique Fire Emblem character; get even more attention from outside the series' fans to focus on a cool-looking, new character (Say, Hector or Lyn) and drum up the hype within that series' fans for an old favorite. Also this is the part where I laugh at Eliwood not being a pick, despite being the main protag...I dunno, make him an Ike Echo because Durandal is a massive sword? Seriously, how does he go from a foil fencer to using a sword bigger than his horse to specializing in lances in FE6?

But that's assuming that there's plans for making another remake during the time of Smash 5, especially considering just how close Three Houses is on the horizon...and, I mean, sure; technically this character would be a promotional DLC pick, but at least it would be for a character whose proven their staying popularity within their franchise versus some unknown without shoes? That'll always bother me.

In terms of old stuff, FE6 and FE7 got official soundtracks released in Japan last month. It could be a hint that Nintendo is planning another remake for that series, (in which the speculation is FE 6) but that's stretching.

And yeah, I wouldn't dig another new FE character to be DLC when the game isn't even out yet. Marketing wise, since Fire Emblem is in a good place these days, Sakurai might not feel compelled to do that again.

 

[Rayleigh]

Agreed. I'd prefer a game be out for awhile and secured itself a place in the culture of its series or the gaming community in general...even if it was a remake of my favorite game of that series. After all, they could very well do something detrimental that ruins the experience; Look what happened with Super Mario 64: DS.

Also real talk is that the secret villain from Bomberman 64 as your avatar? Hype.

 

[Deleted member]

Agreed. I'd prefer a game be out for awhile and secured itself a place in the culture of its series or the gaming community in general...even if it was a remake of my favorite game of that series. After all, they could very well do something detrimental that ruins the experience; Look what happened with Super Mario 64: DS.

Also real talk is that the secret villain from Bomberman 64 as your avatar? Hype.

Judging with how they've handled the three Fire Emblem remakes, all of them are unanimously better than their original from what I've found on them. I can trust a remake for a Roy game as a result, especially Binding Blade. That one needs a second attempt.

LOL Yes it is and I love him. Glad people recognize him.

 

[Rayleigh]

My god does it ever.

FE6-7 had low growth rates, Bows were useless (at least in FE7, when combining growth rates and enemies), Paladins were almighty gods until you hit the desert maps, the support system was...okay? I mean- I rarely used it and it's kinda limited and in need of an overhaul. There's the story which, while not bad...had that horrible english fan translation that did nothing to help people's depiction of Roy or the game in general. Give it a proper translation, and maybe some extra content and we're good.

...Ideally though, and this is talking out of my patented insanity, but: If they remake FE7 first, they could then allow players to import their completed save to an FE6 remake for bonus content would be cool: So if Hector married X, then X is shown as his wife (though Roy's mom is dead no matter what in the original story if memory serves...edit that so she's in the game too, maybe?). Add in a few more characters from FE7 who, if they survived, would logically appear in FE6 (EX. Oswin, Isadora, Harken, Lowen ETC) and it could be an interesting adventure. (Also Fix Eliwood having an S Rank in Lances...or retcon him to be a lance lord. Preferably the former.)

...Or they could, and I really don't want this: More timey-whimey shenanigans and have Roy team up with Young Eliwood or something. Shove some more child characters in there...please don't do this Nintendo; it didn't work well in Fates, and it won't work well here.

Man, that game was so good. Never got to play the sequel, but Bomerman Heroes was tight.

 

[SPEN18]

I wonder if him getting a costume instead of being saved for DLC shows they aren't planning to do more DLC after the first fighter's pass?

I mean, I think any DLC beyond the Fighter's Pass is pretty unlikely (at least in terms of PCs), though largely for other reasons. Rex being relegated to a Costume could very well be an indicator of this, but it could also just be that Nintendo views Xenoblade as something a step below other series like Fire Emblem. Or maybe he simply got edged out by all the third parties they seemingly could get.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

Oh Takumi is 100% more popular than the other two but it just feels weird to say Corrin should get dropped because no one likes Fates then grab a character from Fates to replace them. I know you said Corrin was bland too but personality aside I think the partial transformation gimmick and their overall design are pretty fantastic.

Corrin is uniqueish, i would maybe add him, maybe but still, if there were going to be another sword person on my roster i want it to be Celcia

 

[Quetzal77]

Stages! Another thing where FE representation is lacking and has so much potential.

It's crazy to me that we have such meh stages when Sakurai is a fan of FE. Seriously, where's Grima, Hoshido Gardens, Valla? Or going back, the Tower of Guidance, Macedon Keep, Nabata Desert, etc.? There's so many interesting locales in FE and we have 2 made up stages and 1 admittedly cool Awakening stage, until it starts growing platforms out of nowhere.

The song selection is also... hit and miss. Like why are none of these in Smash? (May contain some spoilers for Radiant Dawn and Mystery of the Emblem):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eqvM63tUz2Q
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QV0vEhQg-iA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=69VvfwO0QDA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2NqNZ6vxRkc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ynPE7gHN3io
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tKJQwhNxkEw

 

[shocktarts17]

Corrin is uniqueish, i would maybe add him, maybe but still, if there were going to be another sword person on my roster i want it to be Celcia

Celica was beyond unknown when Corrin first got in and would have still been virtually unknown when the SSBU roster was decided (when was SoV announced? I know it wasn't out yet at least). People like Celica now and want her but I doubt people would have liked her that much then.

 

[SvartWolf]

There is usually a lot of discussion about edelgard and "she have an axe!" but beside the fact that we aren't even sure if she is super important in the story or even if the axe will be her main weapon, I want to ask people when you say "we want an axe" how that would be implemented instead of making a "tipper ike"?

I found it funny since people seem to assume that just because it looks different by defacto would work completely different.

Personally i won't have 0 idea how to implement edelgard because... welll... i know nothingt about the character, like everyone else...

But taking Hector into consideration... an interesting way to implement axes would be something that isn't too common on smash besides dash attacks and sides B.
Attacking and moving on the same motion. The difference between an axe and a sword is mostly an issue of mass, since an axe have more mass, it can concentrate more power on the blow, but needs more energy to move. at the same time, moving objects with lots of mass generates a lots of inertia. so for example say hector manages to generate enough energy to move his big self with his big axe... wouldnt exactly be easy to launch off even with an ike sword strike.

That being said, i think that an interesting Concept for axe wielders would be some slow startup strong attacks with big hitboxes, super armor that moves the character with the attack. (meaning that you will require different considerations to make this attacks safe, or punish them) and a couple of weaker attacks that also moves the character (basically palutena's dash attack, the character) and maybe a couple of punchs for boxing. (it makes sense that if your mean of attack is moving a giant axe, you are also proficent at attacking with teh rest of your body when you need speed instead of power)

Regarding lance users.... we got a lance user... we already got 2. the Belmonts XD.

 

[shocktarts17]

There is usually a lot of discussion about edelgard and "she have an axe!" but beside the fact that we aren't even sure if she is super important in the story or even if the axe will be her main weapon, I want to ask people when you say "we want an axe" how that would be implemented instead of making a "tipper ike"?

I found it funny since people seem to assume that just because it looks different by defacto would work completely different.

Personally i won't have 0 idea how to implement edelgard because... welll... i know nothingt about the character, like everyone else...

I think part of Edelgard's appeal is not just that she uses an axe but that she breaks the norm of blue haired male lords, though that didn't exactly help Corrin at all (though they suffer from being an avatar character). On top of that I believe people suspect she can use magic so it opens up a potential magical element to her moveset along with bringing an axe.

That said I think a lot of it is pure defeatism, while I'm sure Edelgard has some genuine fans, I think a lot of people see her as inevitable or the only chance as another Fire Emblem rep.

But taking Hector into consideration... an interesting way to implement axes would be something that isn't too common on smash besides dash attacks and sides B.
Attacking and moving on the same motion. The difference between an axe and a sword is mostly an issue of mass, since an axe have more mass, it can concentrate more power on the blow, but needs more energy to move. at the same time, moving objects with lots of mass generates a lots of inertia. so for example say hector manages to generate enough energy to move his big self with his big axe... wouldnt exactly be easy to launch off even with an ike sword strike.

That being said, i think that an interesting Concept for axe wielders would be some slow startup strong attacks with big hitboxes, super armor that moves the character with the attack. (meaning that you will require different considerations to make this attacks safe, or punish them) and a couple of weaker attacks that also moves the character (basically palutena's dash attack, the character) and maybe a couple of punchs for boxing. (it makes sense that if your mean of attack is moving a giant axe, you are also proficent at attacking with teh rest of your body when you need speed instead of power)

I still don't think he would bring enough "newness" to the roster to justify pulling such an "old" pick, that sounds a lot like a slower Ike with heavy wide swings. If he gets in I'm guessing the lightning element and his popularity will have to be at play, not so much just that he uses an axe.

Regarding lance users.... we got a lance user... we already got 2. the Belmonts XD.

Yeah that's true they do share a lot of what a spear user might fight like, though I still think Corrin fits a little better lol.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Edelgard has been confirmed to have a major role in the game, same with 2 other key characters. Hence the name 3 Houses I feel. Edelgard is probably representative of one of these Houses or something relatable. She also seems most like a Hero archetype who still primarily use swords, like we know from Ike.

Speaking of Ike, he is basically already playing sort of the role of heavy axe fight. The way he swings his sword with U and F Smash is more how you swing an axe than a sword. They could replace F Smash by a swing from Urvan and KABOOM! Token FE Axe Lord.

 

[Deleted member]

But taking Hector into consideration... an interesting way to implement axes would be something that isn't too common on smash besides dash attacks and sides B.
Attacking and moving on the same motion. The difference between an axe and a sword is mostly an issue of mass, since an axe have more mass, it can concentrate more power on the blow, but needs more energy to move. at the same time, moving objects with lots of mass generates a lots of inertia. so for example say hector manages to generate enough energy to move his big self with his big axe... wouldnt exactly be easy to launch off even with an ike sword strike.

That being said, i think that an interesting Concept for axe wielders would be some slow startup strong attacks with big hitboxes, super armor that moves the character with the attack. (meaning that you will require different considerations to make this attacks safe, or punish them) and a couple of weaker attacks that also moves the character (basically palutena's dash attack, the character) and maybe a couple of punchs for boxing. (it makes sense that if your mean of attack is moving a giant axe, you are also proficent at attacking with teh rest of your body when you need speed instead of power)

I like your ideas with Hector. He would practically be like King K. Rool and King Dedede combined. Super armor, hand axe projectile, megaloid swings with impossibly gigantic axes, unbearably slow. And he's implied to sneak out of his formal life style to engage in local brawls so of course he'd be able to beat you up with his fist. While Ike does carry similarities to how an axe user would work, I feel, with work on his specials, Hector will be a much needed breath of fresh air for FE representation. Give him something like the gamble skill and he'll be the monster Ike wish he was.

That said I think a lot of it is pure defeatism, while I'm sure Edelgard has some genuine fans, I think a lot of people see her as inevitable or the only chance as another Fire Emblem rep

This is basically how I see Edelgard. Since people expect a Fire Emblem character as much as a Pokemon rep, it's just a matter of who. Personally, I have zero attachment to Three Houses as is so I'd rather have a retro character. If we're gonna have a female FE rep, too, let it be Lyn because she's the most popular lord to be selected now. Granted, Fire Emblem is not guaranteed DLC, so I think we're good on that front. Fates was marketed to Hell and back. I haven't seen much of Three Houses since reveal, so I think Edelgard might not be a sure-win

 

[SPEN18]

With Edelgard, as of now I have almost zero interest. I have to see how much I like Three Houses first.

With Hector, he can definitely be made unique in a number of ways but Lyn is just flat-out more popular and important to the series. I don't know how you justify Hector without Lyn when she can be just as unique and interesting.

 

[Deleted member]

With Hector, he can definitely be made unique in a number of ways but Lyn is just flat-out more popular and important to the series. I don't know how you justify Hector without Lyn when she can be just as unique and interesting.

Earlier in the thread, I already gave my ideas for Hector and Lyn. To quote.

"-Hector, as much as he'd play like Ike, can actually have some variance. He would have a projectile with hand axes and can take skills from future FE games to implement into his moveset. He would also give us a fairly boisterous personality because he loves to fight but is not stoic about it (unlike Ike). This is something we miss in most of the FE reps: Personality. (The only personality I really like is Robin because you can understand his introvert intellect character without ever needing to play the game, unlike Ike who is a great character but is not made evident in Smash.) Hector would be blue haired, but he has an axe and is not afraid to express how happy he is to be there and kick your butt. These are traits not found in FE representation yet. I think if a character had personality worth anything, it would make people outside of FE more open to the character. If the character is just a vessel with a sword, the only thing that makes them memorable is the meta, which is probably the only reason Chrom, Lucina, and Corrin are even remembered.

-Lyn is hard to justify. Inside the fanbase, she's the most popular lord next in line to be represented. She would also be one of the few instances where an assist trophy is upgraded into a full character. What would she do? Well I'm not sure how differently she can swing her sword than Marth, but maybe developers can take advantage of her speed. In game, she's so fast she practically zooms across the screen, so having a fighting style based completely on speed, almost like Sonic, would be great. Add that she also has a bow, and now she doesn't need to be an echo at all. Her design is unique, people have grown into seeing her be in Smash Bros since Brawl, it would be further female representation, and the [FE] fans would appreciate her. She's who I want next for FE because she ticks so many boxes."

To summarize, both have their potential to be unique, but Lyn is more popular so she's most likely out of the two, which is perfectly fine.

 

[Troykv]

So... This a Fire Emblem General Thread? Well; maybe this can be fun :D

 

[shocktarts17]

So... This a Fire Emblem General Thread? Well; maybe this can be fun :D

Welcome! I've been slowly trying to notify the other threads we're here but I didn't want to spam them all at once and bump every Fire Emblem support thread to the front page at the same time lol.

And we're tons of fun!