Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia | GAME OVER: Not Equal To The Challenge

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Pull the trigger on the pairing? You can kill two people in one shot? Elaborate on what you mean.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

You were talking about ryu jumping the gun but we were the ones who actually did the pair command.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Oh, okay. How are you reading Ryu currently?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Town lean. Mostly meta here but there's been no signs from him that i need to be worried about.

 

[Xastrn]

@Soup: This is the second time I've asked for a reason why your opinions seemed to change and you've answered by simply restating THAT your opinions changed. I understand that you are saying that you thought other people were pairing up to be "hip and trendy," but you have yet to explain WHY you thought it was just to be "hip and trendy."

You've been making it a habit this entire thread of offering wishy-washy reads and contradictory opinions. For instance, looking at your last post:

I don't understand their intention to pair with who they paired with other than their history. It's true I paired with Zen/Vandy because of the same deal, but I've already said there's more to it. I haven't seen anyone else jump the gun on pairing because it's likely that they don't have anyone like that.

In this quote say you can't understand why they would pair only so they could keep an eye on players they are familiar with, then immediately admit that this was part of the reason you paired up with Zen in the first place. As I highlighted before, you've already pointed out a myriad of benefits to pairing up beyond simple reads. You are trying to justify your pairing with Zen and condemn other pairings with the exact same reasoning. This is contradictory and fallacious. - Scummy

I want to hear more about what people are discussing currently. Right now I just proposed to Zen if he wanted to shoot someone.

That's the second player you've proposed shoot someone since pressure started getting put on you. - Scummy

I have no plans in doing so because I feel this day will drag itself on if there isn't an action taken, and I'm not confident enough in my reads to be one.

This doesn't logically follow. If you are so unsure of all your reads, then you absolutely should not pushing to end the Day. The Day "dragging on" isn't a bad thing at this point, as we have so many inactive players that we need the time to get reads. We're not in any danger of missing the deadline, so why say this at all? As someone who claims to have no confident reads, you should encouraging people not to shoot and get discussion going. - Scummy

I suggested FML to shoot for this matter to help garner reads better, even on him for that matter. Do you disagree with the shot?

See my previous reasoning. I also believe it will help get better reactions. FML claiming he's going to do it is only pressuring him to put his money where his mouth is. He's stating he thinks he's obvious scum; what is stopping FML from pulling the trigger himself?

Again, as a townie without firm reads, you shouldn't be pressuring anyone to make kills. This isn't a game of pride. FML doesn't have to try to look tough by following up on threats. Threats of useful for pressure, and you should know this. That's why wagons exist in the first place. You've given two contradictory reasons for pushing daykills in this one post alone. Either you a) want the Day to end before it drags on or B) want to pressure other players on their statements. One is ridiculously anti-town, the other is risky and null. Claiming both at once is scummy as hell. - Scummy

@Zen: Soup is getting scummier by the minute. Would you be willing to switch him into active mode when the deadline gets closer? I'd also love to hear what you are discussing in your QT.

 

[Xastrn]

@Kary: I'll offer quick feedback on where we're at with pawn and Sokr.

On pawn: Dastrn actually gave a pretty comprehensive reasoning on pawn in the post he pointed you to. Basically he is pointing out how lurking, buddying, and offering no firms reads is anti-town.

On Sokr: Our town-read on Sokr is now based on more than the first post alone (although that post was indeed pro-town). We see where you're coming from on the "cookie cutter questions" idea, but I don't think the kinds of questions he's asking is necessarily telling. What is telling, however, is who he is directing his questions to. Sokr is actively seeking to get the under-the-radar players involved in the game, which is great for town. We need players who do this in the game, otherwise scum can coast into the later days without ever providing content. This isn't a rock-hard case that makes Sokr obviously town, but his actions are pro-town enough that we don't see him as a viable kill candidate Day 1.

 

[Xivii]

Was out for the most part yesterday. Catching up now.

 

[Xivii]

The data analysis stuff I'm pretty sure he picked up from Overswarm.

lol soup what did i tell u

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Soup: This is the second time I've asked for a reason why your opinions seemed to change and you've answered by simply restating THAT your opinions changed. I understand that you are saying that you thought other people were pairing up to be "hip and trendy," but you have yet to explain WHY you thought it was just to be "hip and trendy."

I'm starting to doubt your intelligence because there shouldn't be anything that isn't explained as to why I think it 'hip and trendy.' Hell, it was just a form of expression to state that people were bandwagoning on the idea for no good reason. Jesus.

In this quote say you can't understand why they would pair only so they could keep an eye on players they are familiar with, then immediately admit that this was part of the reason you paired up with Zen in the first place. As I highlighted before, you've already pointed out a myriad of benefits to pairing up beyond simple reads. You are trying to justify your pairing with Zen and condemn other pairings with the exact same reasoning. This is contradictory and fallacious. - Scummy

A part. That doesn't equal a whole. There's a bigger introspective which I've highlighted. I swear, you read posts so jaded It's no wonder your mechanical style is so hard to swallow. No??? I'm not condemning them. Please use less threatening vocabulary because I merely wanted to point what I disliked about it. Not condemn. I seriously think you need to read further into people instead of defining certain actions as scummy because your Mafia text-book says so.

This doesn't logically follow. If you are so unsure of all your reads, then you absolutely should not pushing to end the Day. The Day "dragging on" isn't a bad thing at this point, as we have so many inactive players that we need the time to get reads. We're not in any danger of missing the deadline, so why say this at all? As someone who claims to have no confident reads, you should encouraging people not to shoot and get discussion going. - Scummy

What? I'm unsure. I wouldn't shoot someone with being unsure. I'll tell you right now that I have a feel of who I would shoot and who I wouldn't, but it's not enough to take that risk. FML is claiming the opposite and saying Pawn is obv scum. I see no reason why he shouldn't back up his claims and get it over with, because clearly he sees something I don't. I get a reaction out of this. I get a better read on FML based on how Pawn flips. I get better reads based on the reaction of it. I'm also pressuring players into if they're shooting or not because it gives me a base idea of their willingness and their intention. Would you shoot me, Xastrn? I want more than just hollow arguments being thrown about. They don't progress anything because no action is being done. A shot is a greater action than talking a bunch of trivial words like I'm doing with you right now. Scum isn't under any pressure to do anything presently because they have no incentive to be pressured. You look at me and say my actions are scummy because I want something done, and I look at you and say you're sitting here and you're part of the problem. You're killing this game with your incessant need to treat us all like we're idiots and passive-aggressive attitude. What do you want me to discuss about? I think Sokr is noob-scum hiding behind a bunch of meaningless questions and his attitude strikes me as weird. It feels he adds into the thread not because he wants to, because he feels he has to keep up an image. However, I don't have enough and I won't make that call. I think Rake's town for now, but I've already stated this. I honestly want to believe you're town. I've been wanting to believe it. You get on my nerves but I can set aside my personal feelings because in your twisted way you do have town's best interest. Do I agree with your Methods? Absolutely not. I get the feeling that you're trying to scumhunt in your own way, which I like. Zen disagrees with me and has a different picture of what is going on, but I'm not sure why he isn't talking. I feel Dabuns is being far too silent but I can't judge that either because there are a lot of people being silent. A part of this is because you and FML are clogging the thread. I'm skeptical of Zen, I don't know how I lean with Kary quite yet (I feel his 'vote' on FML was pretty weird and I don't like how he handled me) and then Ryu openly claiming he was a power role seems pretty ****ing stupid to be honest. The kind of stupid I don't trust and something I feel he was doing just for the sake of looking townie. There's my thoughts in a nut-shell. I didn't want to say anything because I didn't want to lead on with half-baked arguments and only gut feelings, however, to get you off my back I'm willing to be cooperative.

Again, as a townie without firm reads, you shouldn't be pressuring anyone to make kills. This isn't a game of pride. FML doesn't have to try to look tough by following up on threats. Threats of useful for pressure, and you should know this. That's why wagons exist in the first place. You've given two contradictory reasons for pushing daykills in this one post alone. Either you a) want the Day to end before it drags on or B) want to pressure other players on their statements. One is ridiculously anti-town, the other is risky and null. Claiming both at once is scummy as hell. - Scummy

@Zen: Soup is getting scummier by the minute. Would you be willing to switch him into active mode when the deadline gets closer? I'd also love to hear what you are discussing in your QT.​

​

Not everyone plays this game like you do. I have different methods of attaining reads, but that doesn't make them scummy. A) Yeah. I'm pretty okay with cutting the crap and having FML take the shot. You treat the deadline like it's some kind of holy rule to not be broken. **** the deadline. it's relative, not absolute. B) Yeah. It's why I'm asking people if they're gonna shoot or not. I want to see more action and I want to see where people's heads are at. Claiming to shoot someone is stronger than anything, and it tells me more. I would tell you right now If I'd shoot I would shoot Sokr. You're absolutely 100% wrong on the idea of pressuring people on their statements. I'm not going to argue formalities but pressuring players on their reads and claims is how mafia works. I really don't want to go further into this but I'm pretty certain other people in this game will tell you you're wrong also.​

Why are you openly appealing to my partner? You think that's gonna change anything? ​

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Soup there is a reason we arent shooting. If you want that explained then we can but be aware scum will also have that information.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

No, you don't have to tell me. I honestly don't feel pawn is a good shot, however, I'm okay with it. Xastrn has the idea that I'm telling you have to do this. I'm not. I'm trying to get a beat on your intentions and trying get a reaction out of you.

 

[Xivii]

The data analysis stuff I'm pretty sure he picked up from Overswarm. Obviously he hasn't created charts and graphs of posting activity and reads (yet), but he's absolutely the kind of person who finds such things useful. I think the difference between Dastrn and Overswarm is that OS deliberately uses his graphs to mask weak cases and get town on his side (whether he is scum or not) and Dastrn is just putting the data out there for people to use and analyze themselves. So far the only opinions he's pushed using that data is "lets get inactives to post" and "Red Ryu is posting fluff."

I thought it was eerie that you mentioned this after I mentioned it to soup privately, but I checked the times and you posted it before so. How would you say one would differentiate between manipulation and simply "putting it out there"? As far as I can see, you've been using it for the former. As you said with the post earlier on placing Kantrip in your fos pile even though he had more content in the few posts he had. And again with your FoS on Ryu. You're saying here that "so far" that's all he's pushed, but would you not say that goes completely against the entire distinction you made between him in OS in that he is simply putting it out there for individual analyzing and not to make cases???

 

[FullMetalLynch]

No, you don't have to tell me. I honestly don't feel pawn is a good shot, however, I'm okay with it. Xastrn has the idea that I'm telling you have to do this. I'm not. I'm trying to get a beat on your intentions and trying get a reaction out of you.

I feel the same about Sokr to be honest, i think your points against are good and xastrn's points for are him have a bias because he's invested in the read, kind of like a cost of doing bias in a sense, he's already invested in it so now he has to carry it to it's logical conclusion, which is to see another side soon. I'd be okay with sokr going really, but I'm keeping an open mind on him, i'm really trying to see xast's side but his points aren't that strong.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

No, you don't have to tell me. I honestly don't feel pawn is a good shot, however, I'm okay with it. Xastrn has the idea that I'm telling you have to do this. I'm not. I'm trying to get a beat on your intentions and trying get a reaction out of you.

Yeah ? IDK man, maybe i'm the one with the bias, i dont think i am though, his posts just give me no reason to see otherwise.
As to intention, keep pawn honest man, i ****ed up so bad in your newbie with him and he's dropping the same tells here. I know it's not the same situation but i can't ignore what's in front of me.

 

[Kantrip]

Potato, tell me your read on Sokr based on the conversations you've been having, or perhaps just in general. Right now I'm skeptical of Zen and his motive but like I said, I won't be the messenger.

Still feeling him out.

I see Xastrn's recent attack on soup as a bit opportunistic. Soup has clearly said he had a change of heart regarding pairing up, and yet Xastrn is citing his change in behaviour as a "contradiction." The difference between Xastrn and Kary is that Kary was pointing out a legitimate contradiction from soup before, and their resulting argument was very TvT in nature. Xastrn, however, is twisting soup's intentions (soup merely changed his mind, yet Xastrn is calling it a contradiction), and has malicious intent.

I have about had it with Xastrn's slot, would not mind seeing them dead.

 

[Kantrip]

@Kary: I'll offer quick feedback on where we're at with pawn and Sokr.

On pawn: Dastrn actually gave a pretty comprehensive reasoning on pawn in the post he pointed you to. Basically he is pointing out how lurking, buddying, and offering no firms reads is anti-town.

On Sokr: Our town-read on Sokr is now based on more than the first post alone (although that post was indeed pro-town). We see where you're coming from on the "cookie cutter questions" idea, but I don't think the kinds of questions he's asking is necessarily telling. What is telling, however, is who he is directing his questions to. Sokr is actively seeking to get the under-the-radar players involved in the game, which is great for town. We need players who do this in the game, otherwise scum can coast into the later days without ever providing content. This isn't a rock-hard case that makes Sokr obviously town, but his actions are pro-town enough that we don't see him as a viable kill candidate Day 1.

For **** sakes, his townread on Sokr was because Sokr was prodding inactives.

How much of a hard-on for activity do you have, man?

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah ? IDK man, maybe i'm the one with the bias, i dont think i am though, his posts just give me no reason to see otherwise.
As to intention, keep pawn honest man, i ****ed up so bad in your newbie with him and he's dropping the same tells here. I know it's not the same situation but i can't ignore what's in front of me.

How similar is your ability to read pawn to the Rake->Kantrip Konnection?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Kary: I'll offer quick feedback on where we're at with pawn and Sokr.

On pawn: Dastrn actually gave a pretty comprehensive reasoning on pawn in the post he pointed you to. Basically he is pointing out how lurking, buddying, and offering no firms reads is anti-town.

On Sokr: Our town-read on Sokr is now based on more than the first post alone (although that post was indeed pro-town). We see where you're coming from on the "cookie cutter questions" idea, but I don't think the kinds of questions he's asking is necessarily telling. What is telling, however, is who he is directing his questions to. Sokr is actively seeking to get the under-the-radar players involved in the game, which is great for town. We need players who do this in the game, otherwise scum can coast into the later days without ever providing content. This isn't a rock-hard case that makes Sokr obviously town, but his actions are pro-town enough that we don't see him as a viable kill candidate Day 1.

anti-town and pro-town aren't alignments though.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

How similar is your ability to read pawn to the Rake->Kantrip Konnection?

Equivocal.

 

[Kantrip]

@Rake: Do you have a read on me yet? If yes, what is it?

 

[Dabuz]

dabuz, what are your thoughts on RR?

He's playing the way he always does. Hasn't done anything outside of his standard WIFOM nonsense but is trying to get his own ball rolling.

Is there a reason you are asking about these specific players?

@the people who haven't paired

Do you see yourself pairing with someone in the near future?

Not until I see a specific reason to.

BTW Soup, in response to your 316, I think you're jumping at pairing too much. You criticize that pairs will potentially post less content in the thread like it's a bad thing, but at the same time we can get content or reads just by observing how people react to being in a pair.

 

[Dabuz]

On Sokr: Our town-read on Sokr is now based on more than the first post alone (although that post was indeed pro-town). We see where you're coming from on the "cookie cutter questions" idea, but I don't think the kinds of questions he's asking is necessarily telling. What is telling, however, is who he is directing his questions to. Sokr is actively seeking to get the under-the-radar players involved in the game, which is great for town. We need players who do this in the game, otherwise scum can coast into the later days without ever providing content. This isn't a rock-hard case that makes Sokr obviously town, but his actions are pro-town enough that we don't see him as a viable kill candidate Day 1.

Aye Bloke, but do ya reeeeeally think Sokr is actually getting anythin' from these questions?

 

[Kantrip]

@Raziek: Could I please have a short blurb describing what you think of the following players and why?

Xastrn and soup

And could I have your read on the following players, not requiring any write-ups?

pawn, Sokr, FML and Kary

Thanks.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Null town, strangely I like you this game. Especially how your approaching xastrn.

I think before I said i liked you too. This is a very strange situation for me.

Spoiler

could it be ? Love at long last.
Rake stared into Kantrip's eye's, longing to find the answer, hidden deep in kantrip's soul
[/collapse}

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I have about had it with Xastrn's slot, would not mind seeing them dead.

So you're fed up with them --> they're scum? Come on now.

Who's scum?

 

[Xivii]

Did you think Ryker's #5 is serious?

Yes, this is Ryker we're talking about. He dayvigged EE once as soon as the game started. And has led lynches on me multiple times simply for the sake of it. I wouldn't have been surprised if he shot me in his first post. In fact I was half-expecting it once I realized that BRB was his slot.

Sokr was in the green pile with 1 post. Not 0. And I got a very good vibe off of his 1 post. I addressed why, I believe, immediately after, so check back to page 3 or 4 for whenever that was. If I didn't say why more clearly, call me out again, and I'll go back and be sure to be thorough.

Regarding the green pile, we ALL sort of make these piles in our head on a sliding scale of town or scum. The reads in the first 24 hours are by nature pretty weak. The reads by D3 will be much more solid. I should have just posted it all in shades of grey if I wanted to get that point across more clearly, except our background is grey...

I do this as well, but your placing of Sokr and Kantrip is just completely contradictory, especially since that whole post was focused on people's number of posts. Even if you got a town read on Sokr (or good vibes or w/e) why did you not mention him in your inactive list? Afterwards you made the correction for forgetting pawn but not Sokr. Your whole post just seems like bull to me.

xastrn nto scum with pawn on scumpawn

lolwut where are you getting this from? I feel this opposite.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Whats making those feels about xast and pawn on your end?

 

[Kantrip]

So you're fed up with them --> they're scum? Come on now.

Who's scum?

Yes, that's what I mean. Fed up with them and want them dead = they are scum. Sorry for the confusion.

I think no more than one person from the Sokr/pawn/dabuz pile is scum. One of Zen/Raziek/BRB Not Posting could be scum. Aside from Xastrn though, I really have no leads.

 

[Dabuz]

Yes, this is Ryker we're talking about. He dayvigged EE once as soon as the game started. And has led lynches on me multiple times simply for the sake of it. I wouldn't have been surprised if he shot me in his first post. In fact I was half-expecting it once I realized that BRB was his slot.

LMFAO, what game was this? Link me if possible.

 

[Kantrip]

Oh haha I must have missed that post, Rake

Thank ya

 

[#HBC | Kary]

LMFAO, what game was this? Link me if possible.

gorf's mario party 2 mafia

IIRC, setup was broken and ryker played like a moron

 

[FullMetalLynch]

It was part of another one i think, i mentioned liking you in passing cuz i was thinking along some other lines i cant remember atm

 

[FullMetalLynch]

also imma be dipping to create this chicka's website , feel free to ask me stuff but eb aware i may / may no tanswer promptly

 

[Sokr]

@dabuz, I was wondering if your views coincided with mine. They don't. But that in itself isn't telling and I liked your explanation. I was also trying to get you to post.

 

[Kantrip]

@Kary, thoughts on soup vs Xastrn?

 

[Xivii]

@Xastern: If I felt soup was scummy enough to shoot, I'd certainly separate. We've been talking about general reads on players.

Not sure why soup is reaching so hard for you to be town.

@FML: Would like your answer first.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Sokr on xas and vice versa felt weird for an early bus. Didn't think they were together as a result.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Ebwop: feel like scum would bw e more aggressive pushing for the kill and xast wouldnt toss him on the town pile so easily as mates

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Xastern: If I felt soup was scummy enough to shoot, I'd certainly separate. We've been talking about general reads on players.

Not sure why soup is reaching so hard for you to be town.

@FML: Would like your answer first.

It's just how I read him. I'll admit I haven't gone too far into his posts (or at least the ones not directed to me because honestly he is a hassle) but you bring up good points. More importantly, your deal with Sokr/Xas talked in private was really solid and I feel that I'd shoot Sokr on the premise, more being that I have a more distinct compared to Xastrn who I'm afraid I could be misreading currently.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

semi-prod dodge, really damn busy on my side with cleaning house for carpeting/Halloween.