final smashes... why?

[choknater]

No one has played Brawl yet, so there's no such thing as a n00b for this game. specialsauce is completely right.

 

[Snakey]

I'm sure in all the serious tourny / comp games, they'll just disable items and therefore final smashes. No dought this game will have an item switch? Maybe it'll be unlockable.

 

[Terradrius]

There are ways that you could have Smash Balls not be able to be turned off, yet still be balanced for tournaments and whatnot. For example, instead of just poofing into existence like every other item, Smash Balls instead fade into existence over, say, 20 or 30 seconds. That gives people time to make a mad dash over there, and also time to fight over who gets the ball, and, most importantly, makes them (at least mostly) balanced.

 

[mukoe890]

the sword of marth is a finishing move...and the physical entity that is princess peach is one as well

 

[blayde_axel]

The item switch was already unlocked on Melee... I think. So hopefully, it'll be set from the start on Brawl.

 

[Kayn]

The item switch was already unlocked on Melee... I think. So hopefully, it'll be set from the start on Brawl.

I think he was joking

 

[Sundown]

I see im not the only one who thinks that FS should be allowed

Tournament players seem to be the only one concerned about them. Well, im guessing theyre just afraid to die due to a powerful attack. As i said before, if ur that good, u can handle it, u will be able to 1.get it fast or 2. dodge it if someone else gets it and even if u get ur a$$ kicked, if are skilled enough, ull still win. Same goes for items, i just dont know why they are not allowed. Random bombs in crates? Yes! thats part of the game!! u have to learn to deal with it!!!

By the way, no, im not just a casual player, i play tournaments too, and yes, i win them, and yes, im good playing with items and without them

Oh **** you do?, im sorry, i didnt see you placing top 10 at Melee-FC Diamond or at OC3... my bad , oh, maybe it was MLG the one u placed at? oh... not there either? So what was it???

Sry to come of as an *** but the "yes, i win them" part sounded as if u thought uve proven urself enough to go around telling people how to play, and you sir, havent done that just yet.

 

[Crystallion]

I personally think CronoMaster is right . You can still win if you put your mind to it. I mean, in Melee you can still win when your damage meter is at about 400%, it just takes skill. It isn't even sure if you will die. But I guess the FS will be turned off in tournaments anyway, so what's your problem?

 

[Snakey]

That's right Crystallion, I'll just be switched off anyway

 

[Xaron Fisk]

because people like flashy sparkly things and must be pandered to. that and the final smash concept is pretty cool

 

[interfear1]

I believe that the idea of having finish moves to the characters is a good idea, as long as it doesn't automatically beat the opponent. That will be to mess up for a tournament because anyone can easily win with their special.

 

[quam]

yeah, final smashes are cool and all but it kinda destroys the concept of the game. because of final smashes, all it is now is just get up their percent and hit them with a final smash to kill them. not much skill involved

 

[Conformal_Invariance]

yeah, final smashes are cool and all but it kinda destroys the concept of the game. because of final smashes, all it is now is just get up their percent and hit them with a final smash to kill them. not much skill involved

Come now, it doesn't destroy any concepts.

I mean, did you not increase the opponent's percentages in Melee and hit them with a finishing attack to kill them?

And the Final Smash is a one-use item phenomenon - it can't be used again, though it's hinted it can be preserved.

So maybe it'll keep you on your toes.

Plus, the percentages and knockback the Final Smashes do is yet unknown.

Will Ike's heal? Will Kirby's produce items? Will Luigi turn into a cabbage?

It's best just to sit back and relax...

 

[adumbrodeus]

I just hope they aren't in tournaments. People need to remember why items were abolished in the first place.

As I have pointed out MANY times before, Final Smashes (under certain assumptions) do not result in randomly gifted advantages based on item spawning (due to the fact that you can only use it once), are not auto-kills, and require set-up and strategy to use effectively.

Items were abolished because they gifted advantages to whoever they spawned nearbye, and containers/certain items had a tendancy to explode when hit which resulted in a random disadvantage. The one-time-use factor of Final Smashes eliminates the random advantage, and since they don't explode the random disadvantage isn't there (unless we still can't turn off containers, in which case, item-less-ness is going to remain no matter what).

 

[Weed]

Will Luigi turn into a cabbage?

Yes, yes he will.

 

[Igneous42]

i think everyone is pretty excited about this new aspect of the game, but i'm not. i think one of the reasons that smash bros. is so popular is because it isn't similar to most fighting games. a lot of games such as wrestling for example have finishing moves, i don't see why they had to do this to brawl

Because they look cool?

 

[Girl]

I think it will only motivate the use of items more. It doesnt hurt the game being that it is an iteam, which will most likely be on/off. Just have fun with it; if you want to play seriously, dont put items on, just like the rules are set now

 

[Spellman]

I Don't See Why

I don't see why items are turned off in competitive play. Granted, I never play with items when I play with my friends, but I don't see how items kills any of the skill. You should be skilled enough to reach the item first, or worst case senario the other player gets the item, one should be able to avoid it. I think it's because nobody wants to lose to Pichu. lol

I feel like I'm wasting a cool portion of the game by having them off all the time.

As for the method that they used to impliment Final Smashes, I think it's great, because they made it an item that everyone has the opportunity to strive for, and we can assume that they don't appear all that often just by the sheer fact that there are a ton of items.

 

[LinkGadra]

I don't see why items are turned off in competitive play. Granted, I never play with items when I play with my friends, but I don't see how items kills any of the skill. You should be skilled enough to reach the item first, or worst case senario the other player gets the item, one should be able to avoid it. I think it's because nobody wants to lose to Pichu. lol

I feel like I'm wasting a cool portion of the game by having them off all the time.

As for the method that they used to impliment Final Smashes, I think it's great, because they made it an item that everyone has the opportunity to strive for, and we can assume that they don't appear all that often just by the sheer fact that there are a ton of items.

Items are off primarily because of random exploding containers falling into your attack path as you swing. If you could turn off containers (boxes, barrels, and capsules), some items might be allowed in tournament play. As for Brawl, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Many people have stated that the Final Smash is a one time only move. If that's true, only one Smash Ball would appear per match. If more than one Smash Ball appears though, then it seems logical that the Final Smash can be executed more than once.

 

[Demon Kirby]

Many people have stated that the Final Smash is a one time only move. If that's true, only one Smash Ball would appear per match. If more than one Smash Ball appears though, then it seems logical that the Final Smash can be executed more than once.

But not by the same character.

 

[HZ514]

I've never played with items, ever. (Well, barring the poke-ball only insanity that we've occasionally done, which will be even more awesome with all pokemon trainers on pokemon stadium...) Items add a "blind luck" factor in many ways. The first, of course, is the stupidly exploding containers that are good for a laugh but useless competitively. And, of course, some items just take away from the point of the game: to fight. Can you give me one item that would actually considerably add to the quality of a game?

I would hope final smashes can be turned off, at least for 1 on 1 games. They're made worse in 1 on 1 because most of the stages don't allow room to get away from a rampaging (and invincible) enemy. They'll be a blast in free-for-all, though, for sure.

 

[Spellman]

Not Convinced

Still though, exploding crates and capsules just comes with the package, everybody has to avoid smashing them open on themselves, and since everyone in the match would have to worry about them, everyone just has to be that much more careful not to recklessly smash or hold the smash tap too long.

Not having items on decreases the number of useful characters, surely a Pichu with a beam sword saves themselves from taking self inflicted electrical damage all the time, and that adds to the overall strategy of the game, and keeps people from being restricted to using the "top tier" characters at all times.

A Captain Falcon with the Star Rod can shoot out numerous stars at a time and one might say that small addition adds to the area's where he's lacking. Stuff like that.

Bowser has absolutely no range, and equipping him with a long range item can somewhat help him be a better character (as he is a slow rangeless character who is huge and takes a billion hits).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

But not by the same character.

Which does seem rather stupid. You can grab as many hammers as you want, so the Smash Ball should be no different. Therefore, I just think that the Smash Ball should only appear once per match IF the Final Smash truly is a one time only move.

 

[garbage]

Because items cause cancer.

Lol'd at that.

Final smashes aren't necessarily finishing move.
IN FACT-Look at every character's final smash description (everyone who has a final smash so far), and you will notice SOMEWHERE in there, he says something negative or sarcastic about the power.
Hold on.

 

[Spellman]

Smashalotta

Lol'd at that.

Final smashes aren't necessarily finishing move.
IN FACT-Look at every character's final smash description (everyone who has a final smash so far), and you will notice SOMEWHERE in there, he says something negative or sarcastic about the power.
Hold on.

Haha, yeah that is true. I think the closest thing we've come to an instant kill is Link's, but as to how that's executed on the enemy and how easy it is to dodge may factor into it's finishing capabilities. From what I can see, most of them just do a helluva lot of damage. (didn't look like people were being thrown out of the level when Mario executes his. Who knows if Samus's big beam shot will knock anybody out of the arena or if it'll just hold them there taking damage. I'm sure they're not game deciding moves anyways.

 

[Revven]

On the subject of items themselves, I feel that there's some benefits to them being used for some characters but not everyone. For example, Marth's FSmash is sorta ruined if he's holding a Star Rod, Beam Sword, or Homerun Bat simply because it makes the move itself slower and easier to get away from. The best option for him, at that moment, instead of using the item just continually throw it at them. You'd be amazed at the amount of damage throwing a Star Rod or Homerun Bat does, especially, if you catch it and throw it again.

The Star Rod's physics are so weird that it bounces at certain angles of a stage. If you time it right, you'll hit the opponent just because it bounced towards them. It usually can only bounce once so you have a couple of chances to keep throwing it at your opponent for massive damage. The same goes for the Homerun Bat, which, does even more than the Star Rod and has much better knockback. It also bounces off your opponent and gives you enough time to catch it and throw it again, faster than you could catch the Star Rod or Beam Sword and throw it again (because of their weird physics).

In short, the main reason items are off is because people likely wouldn't actually use them but instead constantly throw them at the opponent. This keeps sending the opponent back PLUS leads into an edgeguard. The damage of the thrown item is cheap and the fact that you can throw it more than three to five times, it really racks up the damage counter to the point where a simple Up-Smash or even an F-Smash would just kill the opponent or nearly send them all the way off the stage. It's not just for the randomness, it's for the amazingly high damage they cause when thrown at the opponents. The usage is nullified when you can just as easily throw it constantly at the opponent and do twice to quadruple the amount of damage to your opponent.

Final Smashes are not like this. Your character can only use it once per Smash Ball, so it isn't spammable like throwing a Star Rod is. It can't lead into an edgeguard unless it is Mario's, Pikachu's, or Yoshi's as we've seen. Even then though, we don't know if we can even move Mario before he uses his Final Smash. The point is, that, the Smash Ball is more fair as opposed to the throwable spamming of the Star Rod and Homerun Bat. Easy to dodge? Yes, however, not when used unpredictably.

My point is, the Smash Balls shouldn't be frowned upon as generic items. They're not nearly as overpowered as what a Homerun Bat does thrown or F-Smashed, it does an insane amount of damage anyway. Final Smashes can actually be AVOIDED as we've seen except, maybe for Link's (still not sure how that works myself).

They're a good addition, the only way items would probably be allowed in competitive play is if we were able to control/toggle the amount of crates/capsules/barrels that appear. We can set them to 0 for those weary of explosives. And, the other thing they'd have to do is tone down the amount of damage items do when thrown as opposed to when they're actually used. Also... fix the physics of the certain items like the Star Rod for instance. It shouldn't have such weird physics to the point of being used strategically when thrown versus its usage which is the point of the item itself.

Those are my thoughts. Final Smashes are good, not bad, if they are unavoidable that's when they will be bad.

 

[maxpower1227]

Many people have stated that the Final Smash is a one time only move. If that's true, only one Smash Ball would appear per match. If more than one Smash Ball appears though, then it seems logical that the Final Smash can be executed more than once.

This is STILL being debated?! I don't know why people think the Final Smash will be a one-time-per-match thing. Is the game just not going to let you pick one up if you've already used yours? That would be stupid, and would mean that Zamus can't have a final smash.

I think it's far more likely that Sakurai meant to say that it can only be used once you pick it up

 

[Spellman]

True 'Dat

On the subject of items themselves, I feel that there's some benefits to them being used for some characters but not everyone. For example, Marth's FSmash is sorta ruined if he's holding a Star Rod, Beam Sword, or Homerun Bat simply because it makes the move itself slower and easier to get away from. The best option for him, at that moment, instead of using the item just continually throw it at them. You'd be amazed at the amount of damage throwing a Star Rod or Homerun Bat does, especially, if you catch it and throw it again.

...And, the other thing they'd have to do is tone down the amount of damage items do when thrown as opposed to when they're actually used. Also... fix the physics of the certain items like the Star Rod for instance. It shouldn't have such weird physics to the point of being used strategically when thrown versus its usage which is the point of the item itself.

Those are my thoughts. Final Smashes are good, not bad, if they are unavoidable that's when they will be bad.

Although I still stand by items being used competitively in Melee, I do agree that future item chucking should be toned down a little so the fight lasts longer and they don't grant the user so great an advantage. Kinda like I welcomed the toned down throws in Melee, alot of people found the grab n' throws in Smash Bros. 64 way too strong and easy to spam with characters like Link.

 

[Red Exodus]

I don't care as long as you can turn them off. Sometimes I'll play with them sometimes I won't.

 

[Revven]

Although I still stand by items being used competitively in Melee, I do agree that future item chucking should be toned down a little so the fight lasts longer and they don't grant the user so great an advantage. Kinda like I welcomed the toned down throws in Melee, alot of people found the grab n' throws in Smash Bros. 64 way too strong and easy to spam with characters like Link.

My sentiments exactly. I was speaking as it stands however, I wasn't speaking as if I didn't want them in compeititive play indefinitely. I was speaking the reasons why they aren't. They should be toned down, at least, the throwables that do a lot of damage (Star Rod and Homerun Bat I'm looking at you two). Hopefully, they plan to fix the physics of these two items as well as the damage when thrown. It's just insane the amount of damage they do thrown compared to when you actually use them.

The Ray Gun is in the same boat as well. I get more use out of it if I shoot it a couple of times and then start to throw it. The Ray Gun also has weird physics, the Super Scope however, is handled right. The physics are almost perfect simply because it isn't as easy to grab again once thrown. It almost immediately falls back onto the ground and disappears. If they can do that with the Star Rod, Ray Gun, and Homerun Bat I'll be pleased. It would make them used for what their inital purpose was.

I really hope they get the same treatment as the throws got.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Many people have stated that the Final Smash is a one time only move. If that's true, only one Smash Ball would appear per match. If more than one Smash Ball appears though, then it seems logical that the Final Smash can be executed more than once.

It was confirmed that the final Smash is one-time use.

The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…

Source: http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/basic02.html


And you're discounting the possibility that it appears more then once to remove the random advantage factor inherent in most items, thus intending to make it something that could be tournament legal.

 

[Knyaguy]

i cant wait to see pt final smash

 

[StarIceRaptor]

I don't see why it's a big deal; just turn the option off.

 

[pdk]

Can you give me one item that would actually considerably add to the quality of a game?

 

[Dojo999]

IMO, of course you should turn of Final smashes in tournaments or if you playin "For Realz". Heck i know that when me and my friends want to get all serious and see whos got da best skills we turn the items off.

But that doesn't mean there arent skillz involved in a battle with items. Adapting to the situation and using ur enviorment is a big part of battling. Thats why i genuinley appreciate fun items and the occasionally zany stage(except the ice climbers level from melee, screw that level forever).

 

[raphtmarqui]

Final smashes are awesome

 

[chickdigger802]

i bet final smashes would involve waggle =)

I don't like how you can't get hurt when ur final smashing, makes it almost like *gasp* an anime fighting game!

 

[Akiak]

I say final smashes are a great add to the game. It makes games better than ever! Plus it adds personality to the characters. Its like "Why be yoshi when I can be Super dragon yoshi!" or "Why be bowser when you can be Giga bowser!"
Plus I think the item will be VERY rare and maybe appear mostly to losing characters like in other mario games. Thats Mario style.

 

[Chari]

Final smashes are just the cool part of the game. I wouldn't have thought about that.